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Sinteres posted:I don't think they'll add the cards from Alchemy packs to drafts, I think they'll errata cards in drafts at some point down the line. you know they don't even remove banned cards from drafts, right? everything they've ever done has tried to make the draft/sealed environments identical to how they are in paper, and everything they said on stream underlined the importance of keeping the paper formats identical to how they are in paper. if they ever do a limited format with alchemized cards it'd be on top of keeping the paper limited formats exactly the same.
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Dec 4, 2021 02:57
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flatluigi posted:everything they've ever done has tried to make the draft/sealed environments identical to how they are in paper, and everything they said on stream underlined the importance of keeping the paper formats identical to how they are in paper. Not that they'll necessarily run drafts with Alchemy cards, just they're definitely not "exactly identical".
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Dec 4, 2021 03:04
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Strong Sauce posted:paper standard is dead. at least atm.. and i'm guessing the plan is to just let arena standard die out as well. i dont think they'll remove it until they figure out how to release paper cards with the updates. kinda like baseball cards with their late season set updates... maybe.. but i think letting standard to rot is not good at all for paper magic in general. maybe the other thing happens where they eventually just abandon paper magic because its not as profitable as people spending a bunch of money in arena. As unhinged as my perspective is, I know they aren't getting rid of paper magic. Commander is by far their most profitable format, and it is exclusively in paper. And Modern is actually an incredible success too. The only thing failing in paper is standard and pioneer, the latter of which wotc says they're porting over to arena but will 100% be another 'Alchemy' format just like historic.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:46
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Huxley posted:I would be happy if they said Yeah I'd be mostly fine with this even if meant holding my nose through an entire Standard rotation.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:40
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Panderfringe posted:As unhinged as my perspective is, I know they aren't getting rid of paper magic… I’m just curious, because I’ve never seen the numbers, but is paper bigger than MTGA?
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Dec 4, 2021 05:28
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Chakan posted:I’m just curious, because I’ve never seen the numbers, but is paper bigger than MTGA? Probably, as Arena is digital and this doesn't consume space.
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Dec 4, 2021 05:31
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I don't think they've put out the numbers, though MaRo might have said generally on his blog. What with COVID absolutely, and just in terms of $format matches played probably even still. Notably it doesn't capture the kitchen table market, so probably not overall.
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Dec 4, 2021 05:54
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flatluigi posted:you know they don't even remove banned cards from drafts, right? everything they've ever done has tried to make the draft/sealed environments identical to how they are in paper, and everything they said on stream underlined the importance of keeping the paper formats identical to how they are in paper. I think it's less disruptive to the format to slot in some errata on a card than to remove what might be a key card from an archetype entirely. I'm not saying this is coming next week or even next year, but if Alchemy becomes more popular than Standard, I don't see why further moves to embrace that Arena is a distinct digital experience wouldn't follow. And yeah, they could test the waters by rotating it in for an event or something and seeing how it's received before making it a new status quo. All of that said, I get that the errata needs of constructed aren't necessarily going to be the same as those of limited, so since we all know there have been sets that have been unfun to draft because the balance has been off, maybe in the long run draft-specific errata could be possible, and might even be a good thing?
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Dec 4, 2021 06:00
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Hot take: standard has been bad for 15 years, gently caress it. Who cares. The game would be better off if standard was the newbie format where all the cards were dirt cheap and the pool was small. It's good for new player acquisition and shouldn't be fully abandoned, it can and should certainly be fun, but modern and Commander becoming the flagship paper formats would be/is better for the game. They've been better and more fun formats than standard for a long time. Standard being the volatile mess format where things come and go willy nilly is a fine identity for it tbh. Collectors boosters have driven the prices of the grand majority of basic game piece-versions of cards into the ground. Who gives a poo poo if they ban Esika's Chariot or whatever if it costs $3. If they just re-engage with pioneer a little bit and make it more like what we all wish standard actually was, ie a lower-power level and ideally lower cost format where new sets have a much larger and broader impact, I think that would be a much better long-term trajectory.
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Dec 4, 2021 08:22
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I know reddit is reddit, but after day one of what's basically the Pro Tour, the event thread on r/magictcg has 3 posts (one of which is just "stop loving with historic") and there is absolutely no mention of it on r/spikes or r/magicarena. This thread doesn't talk about it either. Mission accomplished for WotC I guess?!
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Dec 4, 2021 14:42
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Katana Gomai posted:I know reddit is reddit, but after day one of what's basically the Pro Tour, the event thread on r/magictcg has 3 posts (one of which is just "stop loving with historic") and there is absolutely no mention of it on r/spikes or r/magicarena. This thread doesn't talk about it either. Well the production value is hot garbage anyways who wants to watch a bunch extra turn mirrors? It’s a god drat shame that Runeterra isn’t more popular on twitch god drat thats a nice client
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Dec 4, 2021 15:37
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So why is Wizard Class still so bad, you'd think if they were going to buff cards to show that Alchemy changes were more than just forced metagame shake-ups by nerfing top tier decks, they would've made it good. Is it because fundamentally the card can't be good as it has to level to get abilities that matter? Is it because they put draw 2 in the middle so they must make it cost at least 4 mana to max? Is it because things like Chasm Skulker aren't that good in the first place?
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Dec 4, 2021 22:04
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Koirhor posted:It’s a god drat shame that Runeterra isn’t more popular on twitch god drat thats a nice client drat if only there was a secret to a game being popular to stream like... making it good
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Dec 4, 2021 22:20
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I'm probably missing something here but how do we know that prioritizing the introduction of alchemy over pioneer on arena is the optimal financial decision for WOTC to make? I'm thinking about all the additional sets that would be brought onto arena, requiring tons of wildcards, packs, drafts, etc. for any deck to effectively compete, and from that perspective it seems like it would be quite the money grab. Is it simply that all that extra development and coding to get the older sets on arena is thought to be not worth the effort, from the financial prospective? Seems like a big payoff, imo.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:48
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In order for people to want to craft a bunch of cards to play pioneer they’d have to want to play pioneer
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Dec 4, 2021 23:51
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whiggles posted:I'm probably missing something here but how do we know that prioritizing the introduction of alchemy over pioneer on arena is the optimal financial decision for WOTC to make? I'm thinking about all the additional sets that would be brought onto arena, requiring tons of wildcards, packs, drafts, etc. for any deck to effectively compete, and from that perspective it seems like it would be quite the money grab. Is it simply that all that extra development and coding to get the older sets on arena is thought to be not worth the effort, from the financial prospective? Seems like a big payoff, imo. Getting people motivated to play something that exists right now on the client by tweaking it a little is a lot cheaper than spending the next 2 years porting every Pioneer card into Arena
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Dec 4, 2021 23:57
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sit on my Facebook posted:Hot take: standard has been bad for 15 years, gently caress it. Who cares. The game would be better off if standard was the newbie format where all the cards were dirt cheap and the pool was small. It's good for new player acquisition and shouldn't be fully abandoned, it can and should certainly be fun, but modern and Commander becoming the flagship paper formats would be/is better for the game. They've been better and more fun formats than standard for a long time. Standard was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better 4-5 years ago than it is now. Sure it might have always been worse than like Legacy but it's also true that it's on a downward trend in quality that I think is unarguable. I also think it's very wrong for standard to be the "newbie format" because if it was you wouldn't ever have new cards or new mechanics showcased in competitive play which is awful for the game.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:55
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Notable newbie friendly formats Modern and Legacy
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Dec 5, 2021 00:58
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mcmagic posted:Standard was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better 4-5 years ago than it is now. Sure it might have always been worse than like Legacy but it's also true that it's on a downward trend in quality that I think is unarguable. I'm less inclined to believe that's due to any design philosophy changes than just the format being solved so much faster due to arena. I did not play standard "back in the day" however so idk
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Dec 5, 2021 01:45
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kalel posted:I'm less inclined to believe that's due to any design philosophy changes than just the format being solved so much faster due to arena. I did not play standard "back in the day" however so idk That isn't it. formats are solved faster but there have been more cards banned in standard in the like the last 3 years than the whole previous history of standard for the last 15 years.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:05
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Even if you're just looking at "Standards that have been played on Arena", it was better pre-Eldraine.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:06
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You know how you know standard sucks? They just printed 2 whole sets with Vampire/Warewolf/Zombie/Spirit themes and they are all completely non existent in standard.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:12
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Jabor posted:Even if you're just looking at "Standards that have been played on Arena", it was better pre-Eldraine. U/R drakes was the best standard ever, bc thats my fav type of deck and that was the only time it was viable
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Dec 5, 2021 02:57
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Tho monored arclight gets a special mention, that deck owned as well
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Dec 5, 2021 02:57
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Standard has been varying degrees of bad since Kaladesh, and even Guilds standard wasn't great because No Wincon Teferi was still the deck du jour until various versions of Simic Bullshit took over for the next year.
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Dec 5, 2021 03:07
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mandatory lesbian posted:U/R drakes was the best standard ever, bc thats my fav type of deck and that was the only time it was viable 4C Energy Fog!
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Dec 5, 2021 03:19
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Played Obosh red in my store championship and went 2-3... should've stuck with merfolk
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Dec 5, 2021 03:26
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Played Obosh red in my store championship and went 2-3... should've stuck with merfolk Obosh red t8'd in mine.
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Dec 5, 2021 04:08
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I would say standard has been some degree of bad since khans rotated, and hasn't really been GOOD good since like Ravnica 1 through Innistrad/RTR
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Dec 5, 2021 04:17
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Played Obosh red in my store championship and went 2-3... should've stuck with merfolk Never switch decks before a big event.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:04
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sit on my Facebook posted:I would say standard has been some degree of bad since khans rotated, and hasn't really been GOOD good since like Ravnica 1 through Innistrad/RTR yeah this is correct. I hated THS standard as it was dominated by two incredibly linear mono color decks and Stan Cifka’s Elixir of Immortality win con deck. Khans made standard very briefly fun until everyone figured out siege rhino was the best thing you could be doing.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:32
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sit on my Facebook posted:I would say standard has been some degree of bad since khans rotated, and hasn't really been GOOD good since like Ravnica 1 through Innistrad/RTR Inn rtr was the last standard I played and wasn't much of a fan and the one before it mbs inn was probably my second favorite of all time next to the two with Kamigawa block which I lump together and was when I started playing magic so they're my favorite not because they were good but because of the nastalga
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Dec 5, 2021 05:45
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mcmagic posted:You know how you know standard sucks? They just printed 2 whole sets with Vampire/Warewolf/Zombie/Spirit themes and they are all completely non existent in standard. The tribal themes are pretty light this time around outside of a few of the commander plants, if you ask me. They are mostly limited stuff. Except for mono black zombies. That poo poo is legit.
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Dec 5, 2021 06:09
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:yeah this is correct. I hated THS standard as it was dominated by two incredibly linear mono color decks and Stan Cifka’s Elixir of Immortality win con deck. Khans made standard very briefly fun until everyone figured out siege rhino was the best thing you could be doing. I often see people look back fondly on RTR/Theros and I'm just baffled. Pack Rat is the worst play pattern of all time
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Dec 5, 2021 07:29
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what everyone's personal favorite standard is probably coincides with their age tbh. magic is a lot more fun when you have the time and your parent's money to spend playing with your friends at the lgs on weekends when you're sixteen
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Dec 5, 2021 07:51
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Pack Rat sure did ruin draft but the constructed format was legitimately great. Like, deciding how much you want to go in on Pack Rat is a decision that can win or lose the game, and it's often not obvious up-front what exactly the right choice is. Invoking decisions like that regularly is, IMO, one of the marks of a good format.
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Dec 5, 2021 07:54
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kalel posted:what everyone's personal favorite standard is probably coincides with their age tbh. magic is a lot more fun when you have the time and your parent's money to spend playing with your friends at the lgs on weekends when you're sixteen my personal favourite standard was throne of eldraine and i was like 29 for that why yes my favourite colour pair is simic how did you know
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Dec 5, 2021 07:55
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But that's kind of an aside from the real reason that Standard format was great, which was that you could play pretty much anything. There were a few A-tier decks and then an absolutely insane number of B-tier decks. Compared to right now where you have two S-tier decks and then it very quickly drops to like, C-tier at best.
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Dec 5, 2021 07:59
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Jabor posted:But that's kind of an aside from the real reason that Standard format was great, which was that you could play pretty much anything. There were a few A-tier decks and then an absolutely insane number of B-tier decks. Compared to right now where you have two S-tier decks and then it very quickly drops to like, C-tier at best. no i just slammed the best ug deck and enjoyed having all the answers it was great
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Dec 5, 2021 08:01
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I guess if you're like, "I will only ever play the best deck in the format" and you also hated playing control decks, and playing aggro decks, and playing midrange decks, then you might not have enjoyed RTR-Theros. But I think that mostly comes down to you not being very much fun.
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Dec 5, 2021 08:03
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