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Warbadger posted:they are responsible for seeing that the gun has been made safe by the expert before they play with it. It's been explained many times in this thread that they aren't.
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Dec 4, 2021 02:53
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dividertabs posted:It's been explained many times in this thread that they aren't. Really, where? We've had multiple videos of armorers discussing how normal safety procedure includes a safety check done in front of the actors and crew when a gun comes on set, we've had an account of this specific assistant director being told to gently caress off by an actress for skipping said safety check, we've got a link to a lawsuit claiming negligence over this incident including the bit where the actor accepted the gun without the safety check, but I haven't seen anyone post anything proving actors have zero responsibility for gun safety so long as somebody else hands them the gun. Edit: Also worth mentioning that actors pretty frequently have to go through at least basic gun safety courses because being a complete idiot walking around with a gun loaded with blanks is actually really dangerous. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 02:57
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Warbadger posted:normal safety procedure includes a safety check done in front of the actors and crew in this thread If I missed such a detail than I apologize. Steadiman posted:but all those rely entirely on trusting that the (licensed) armory person does their job correctly. Loading blanks in front of actors has been mentioned, but I take is as for the benefit of the rest of the crew, not putting responsibility on them. Same as the gun safety courses. In news articles where professionals critique what happened on this set, none of them have criticized Baldwin's actions.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:15
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controversially, i think its the armourer's fault completely 100%
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Dec 4, 2021 03:16
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dividertabs posted:If I missed such a detail than I apologize. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Cdc_7M8p4 Skip to 4:10 There's a bunch of similar videos from other armorers claiming the same about visible safety checks being carried out in front of the actors and crew on set when a gun is brought in. The actors and crew are all in a position to see when safety checks are (or are not) being performed - and the habit of skipping checks by this assistant director came up both in historical complaints against them and in the complaints causing the union walkout on this set. It's pretty reasonable, in my opinion, to expect the actors to not wave around guns when they can plainly see that the normal safety procedures are not happening. Even more reasonable after multiple accidental gunshots already happened on set. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 03:21
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Caesar Saladin posted:controversially, i think its the armourer's fault completely 100% I agree but I also think there is fault with her superiors who didn't fire her the first time it happened. There is more than 100% of fault to go around. I'm not watching the hourlong interview but I did read this npr synopsis. quote:He said he hadn't been told of any safety concerns on the film's set before the accident. Did anyone watch it? Did the interviewer have any follow-up questions about it?
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Dec 4, 2021 03:24
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Warbadger posted:Skip to 4:10 What he said at 4:10 isn't new information; the people on set "are let to see." Being the person to handle the gun doesn't make Baldwin more responsible as you mentioned earlier. Being a person in a position of power might.
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Dec 4, 2021 03:29
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dividertabs posted:What he said at 4:10 isn't new information; the people on set "are let to see." Being the person to handle the gun doesn't make Baldwin more responsible as you mentioned earlier. Being a person in a position of power might. Yeah, and he's let to see that it didn't happen, too. It'd be pretty drat hard for anybody to reasonably confuse "guy rushing into the set with a gun, yelling COLD GUN and handing it me" with the safety check process the armorers describe. And when normal safety checks clearly don't happen and he plays cowboy with the gun anyways, he's being negligent. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 03:31
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Lol no poo poo. If someone says something really sick and obscene like “.358 magnum,” do you punch a wall?
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Dec 4, 2021 03:54
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Warbadger posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Cdc_7M8p4 That the actors are shown the safety check during a standard procedure does not mean that it is the actor's responsibility to see that the safety check is done. Alec the Actor is not responsible for gun safety or insuring safety checks. Alec the Producer may be responsible for having a lovely set with unprofessional and unsafe people, depending on whether his producer title meant.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:36
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and Alec the Murderer is responsible for at least one death. will it be enough to sate his blood lust? all the tears say no.
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Dec 4, 2021 04:42
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Klyith posted:That the actors are shown the safety check during a standard procedure does not mean that it is the actor's responsibility to see that the safety check is done. It’s not like this is his first movie with prop guns and safety procedures on set. If he knows all kinds of normal safety procedures are being skipped, then he takes a gun and starts playing with it (including pulling the trigger) he probably does have some responsibility for what happened imo.
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Dec 4, 2021 05:00
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Klyith posted:That the actors are shown the safety check during a standard procedure does not mean that it is the actor's responsibility to see that the safety check is done. No, it's not the actor's responsibility to make sure a safety check is done. It's the actor's responsibility, like anyone else, to have a reasonable expectation that what they are doing is safe for those around them. Observing that the safety check took place before playing with a gun provides the actor with a reasonable expectation that the deadly weapon they're about to literally play with is, in fact, safe to play with. Because it's not reasonable or normal to play with a deadly weapon otherwise. The safety procedures are there to protect the actors and corporations involved from liability as much as they are to keep people getting guns pointed at them from getting shot. Do you think he had a reasonable expectation that the weapon placed in his hands was safe and thus what he was doing with said deadly weapon was safe for those around him? Reasons he had to think the gun was safe: +The assistant director with a reputation for disregarding safety procedures told him it was a cold gun as he rushed it onto the set. +Movie set guns are normally made safe, as evidenced through normal, visible safety procedures. Reasons he had to think the gun might not be safe: -He presumably understands guns are deadly weapons. -He presumably could not tell whether this gun was safe through his own observation. -The assistant director skipped the normal, visible safety procedures Alec and everyone else on set would expect to see happen to verify the gun was safe when brought on set. Like many on the crew, as a veteran actor he would presumably know this is not normal. -Guns expected to be safe on this set had turned out to be unsafe on multiple occasions when they were fired unexpectedly. -Union crew had recently walked off the set citing, among other reasons, poor firearm safety practices. Others on the crew were pretty quick to say they noticed the same problem afterwards. -The armorer responsible for the guns/gun safety was not present. With these reasons to consider he had two choices: 1) Ask the assistant director to do his loving job on this production that Alec the actor is also a producer for, lose several full minutes of cowboy playtime while the normal safety check is performed on the gun. Possibly longer if anyone notices the AD pulling live ammo out of the gun! 2) Figure it's not his problem, take the gun, play cowboy, shoot a camerawoman. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 05:48
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Is this on Netflix? I’m not subbing to Hulu god dammit
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Dec 4, 2021 10:58
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Anytime you pick up or are handed a firearm, surely it is your responsibility to know if it's loaded or not?
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Dec 4, 2021 11:11
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What if.. what if every bullet had a laser sight built into them. You'd see a dot whenever a bullet was in the chamber. Real bullets would have red lasers, blanks green And IOT magazines that order more bullets when theyre running low
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Dec 4, 2021 11:32
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I imagine if you're on a film set as an actor where you are handling guns every day you would start to get complacent about safety checks and by like day 20 when you get handed a "cold" gun you just accept it. That's not a defense of Baldwin but a realistic scenario if doing a gun safety check in front of the actor is not a formalised activity and rather just good practice. Ultimately the blame does lie with the armourer but if the armourer hired is a 24yr old on job #2 in their whole career and is now working on a big production there is a drat good chance they will be intimidated by more experienced crew members to up the pace or cut corners, which leads to mistakes. The armourer here has been thrown in the deep end and set up to fail to save a few bucks and the fault for that lies with whoever is running the production.
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Dec 4, 2021 11:43
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There's no excuse for the armorer even having live rounds anywhere near the set, no matter how intimidated or whatever you think they were, it seems like the single most basic rule of the job is "don't put real bullets in there." She dumb as hell.
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Dec 4, 2021 12:06
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Trolling Thunder posted:If someone says something really sick and obscene like “.358 magnum,” do you punch a wall? Nah, I'm not really a gun guy either. Some dude just made a fairly irrelevant effort post full of half-remembered poo poo and I figured it should be corrected.
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Dec 4, 2021 12:37
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Flayer posted:I imagine if you're on a film set as an actor where you are handling guns every day you would start to get complacent about safety checks and by like day 20 when you get handed a "cold" gun you just accept it. That's not a defense of Baldwin but a realistic scenario if doing a gun safety check in front of the actor is not a formalised activity and rather just good practice. Fixed
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Dec 4, 2021 14:02
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lol this is one of the best thread titles in years. every time i scroll by i hear jack donaghy saying this to the 50 rock crew.
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Dec 4, 2021 15:29
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Blanks can kill people too, how bout we ban guns from films altogether. Just give it the one piece treatment
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Dec 4, 2021 17:04
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Him saying he feels no guilt has done it for me, in terms of putting him firmly in 'gently caress you, guy' territory forever. That's either a bald-faced PR lie, or he's a loving sociopath, but either way goddamn.
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Dec 4, 2021 17:07
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I mean surely that's just good sense if you're being sued over a wrongful death to never ever say you feel guilty lol
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Dec 4, 2021 17:09
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I think it tends to work the opposite way! Showing remorse can get you off more often than insisting you feel nothing, because whether you feel responsible for the death or not has no bearing on whether it's considered a wrongful death, but can affect how much they hit you for in the judgement.
StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 17:12
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Also in a situation of a wrongful death lawsuit, all he stands to lose is money, no jail time, so I feel like this lends credence to the 'cheap producer' narrative because wow, that's a dramatic stance to take that you don't feel guilt just to get ahead of that. Again it's just a PR move but ugh StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 17:15
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I don't think showing remorse is how Mad Dog Alec gets off
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Dec 4, 2021 17:16
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Caesar Saladin posted:There's no excuse for the armorer even having live rounds anywhere near the set, no matter how intimidated or whatever you think they were, it seems like the single most basic rule of the job is "don't put real bullets in there." She dumb as hell. The latest story from her lawyer says nobody intentionally brought any live ammo anywhere near set or the guns ever. A nefarious infiltrator framed her by switched out the ammo and she was just too dumb to pick them up and check if they were dummy rounds. https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-framed-attorney-1235109579/amp/ teardrop fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 20:02
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i think the labor unionist who snuck live ammo into the gun during lunch and remotely controlled alec's trigger finger through an implanted microchip is really to blame
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Dec 4, 2021 20:04
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MAGA infiltrators snuck onto the set to sabotage baldwin's career.
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Dec 4, 2021 20:14
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Ms Reed cried out, there is Goodman Baldwin going to Mrs. Hutchins , and immediately, said Hutchins fell into a fit. — You see the devil will deceive you; the children could see what you was going to do before the woman was hurt. I would advise you to repentance, for the devil is bringing you out. Ms Reed cried out again, there is Goodman Baldwin going to hurt Joel Souza; and immediately Joel Souza fell into a fit.
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Dec 4, 2021 20:33
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Lol
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Dec 4, 2021 21:04
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Anytime you pick up or are handed a firearm, surely it is your responsibility to know if it's loaded or not? What if it was a pulse rifle.
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Dec 4, 2021 21:35
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StrangersInTheNight posted:I think it tends to work the opposite way! Showing remorse can get you off more often than insisting you feel nothing, because whether you feel responsible for the death or not has no bearing on whether it's considered a wrongful death, but can affect how much they hit you for in the judgement. Yes, but showing remorse only helps in the event of making a plea deal, otherwise it can be used in court against you. If he admits to feeling guilt about the previous incidents on set he's admitting to being aware of the ongoing safety issues. No idea what's he's thinking by doing this interview, but if I accidentally killed a coworker I might be a little broke-brained for a while. There's been one or two times where I missed a safety step at work resulting in a near-accident, and felt lovely about it for weeks.
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Dec 4, 2021 21:48
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je1 healthcare posted:Yes, but showing remorse only helps in the event of making a plea deal, otherwise it can be used in court against you. If he admits to feeling guilt about the previous incidents on set he's admitting to being aware of the ongoing safety issues. Survivors guilt is a well known event. Feeling guilt doesn't prove anything, even if in this case it is absolutely justified.
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Dec 4, 2021 21:55
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I'm pretty sure if I were to take a life through a comedy of errors that resulted in me genuinely not being at fault, I'd still be haunted by it for the rest of my life. That's just me though, I can't speak to the inner life of a famous actor who is definitely partially at fault.
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Dec 5, 2021 00:41
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Thundercracker posted:What if it was a pulse rifle. Sir, this is a western 
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Dec 5, 2021 01:20
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Bags Fly at Noon posted:I had some sympathy for him about this incident but that softball interview he just did with Stephanopolous was a really bad look. Yeah it's like dude have some class and let the investigation pan out before you run to one of your dicksuck media pals and give a tearful interview to get ahead of it.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:33
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Alec considers himself the victim and it’s gross as hell.
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Dec 5, 2021 03:15
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Dec 5, 2021 03:31
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