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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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StratGoatCom posted:Now, back to topic: I feel like you kind of need the next tweet to make this clear: https://twitter.com/GANyborg/status/1466875096212119556 Which is, assuming that the facts as reported are correct and everyone was fully vaccinated, loving nuts.
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Dec 4, 2021 10:03
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This seems, uh, extremely not good
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Dec 4, 2021 10:28
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Barry Foster posted:This seems, uh, extremely not good It adds to mounting evidence that Omicron is highly transmissible and is to some extent able to evade vaccine protection from infection. Delta is pretty decent at that too. What we really wanna know is severity of disease and if it causes different symptoms than Delta and other COVID variants. That's pretty unknown at this point. There's speculation and anecdotes it's milder but who knows. It's worth reminding folks that even if Omicron is better able to evade antibodies and humoral immunity, that does not necessarily mean it's going to evade cell-mediated immune response (B and T memory cells). Which is to say, just because it might readily infect vaccinated people does not necessarily mean vaccine-induced protection against severe disease is reduced.
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Dec 4, 2021 10:48
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It's still unambiguously bad news, though.
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Dec 4, 2021 10:51
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It’s a high attack rate, but it’s not like we haven’t seen high attack rates before. What I really don’t like about Omicron is that every piece of circumstantial evidence uncovered seems be decisively toward the negative. You could write off things here or there like flukes. Vaccinated people have been involved in superspreader events. Transmission between rooms in quarantine hotels has been documented. We’ve seen highly mutant spikes that went nowhere in NYC wastewater. We’ve seen surges take off in one country or another with not a lot of apparent causation. Children have been sickened in prior waves. Put them all together, though, and Omicron is shaping up to be a monster.
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Dec 4, 2021 11:00
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The reports coming out of SA about the high degree of severity in children is leaving me deeply frightened for my nieces (two year old and eight week old) and I'm trying to figure out how to tell my brother to take increased precautions immediately without panicking him. One of the omicron hotspots in the UK is less than a hundred miles from where he lives, and if it's as transmissible as it looks then it'll be with him in a matter of weeks, so I feel a certain sense of urgency
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Dec 4, 2021 11:09
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This is the world’s oldest known cat, ‘Great Grandma’ Wad of Chanthaburi, Thailand. She was born in 1987.
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Dec 4, 2021 11:26
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Platystemon posted:This is the world’s oldest known cat, ‘Great Grandma’ Wad of Chanthaburi, Thailand. She looks like she would snuggle.
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Dec 4, 2021 12:17
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Platystemon posted:This is the world’s oldest known cat, ‘Great Grandma’ Wad of Chanthaburi, Thailand. Why stop with such a half-assed lie? At least make it 1897.
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Dec 4, 2021 12:18
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Fritz the Horse posted:What we really wanna know is severity of disease and if it causes different symptoms than Delta and other COVID variants. That's pretty unknown at this point. There's speculation and anecdotes it's milder but who knows. While I agree with you, even if it does cause the same symptoms as the wildtype but is 20x (pulled out my rear end) as contagious, we're going to have a much harder time keeping hospitals from being overloaded in the short term, and protecting against high proprotions of PASC in the long term, right? Keep in mind: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.29.21264272v2.full quote:In this study, we use SARS-CoV-2 cases in Washington state that were sequenced as part of sentinel surveillance to evaluate the differential risk of hospitalization following infection with a variant lineage. We find that in our study period, cases infected with Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta variants have a higher risk of hospitalization compared to cases infected with an ancestral lineage, after adjusting for relevant covariates. We find similar estimates of higher risk of hospital admittance in the subset of unvaccinated individuals infected with Gamma, Delta, and Alpha when compared to unvaccinated individuals infected with ancestral lineages. We subsequently see no significant difference in hospitalization risk in cases with an active vaccination following infection with the aforementioned VOCs when compared to unvaccinated individuals with ancestral lineages. quote:
Leonardi has regularly asserted that we don't actually have any research on t cell responses to Cov2 or any kind of correlate of protection for them: https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1464574729596067841 and an NIH paper showed no t cell response in challenged macaques a year after immunization with Moderna https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.23.465542v1 Meanwhile, I understand this paper to show that Covid both causes and worsens due to T cell dysfunction https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.600405/full Petey fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 14:08
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Barry Foster posted:The reports coming out of SA about the high degree of severity in children is leaving me deeply frightened for my nieces (two year old and eight week old) and I'm trying to figure out how to tell my brother to take increased precautions immediately without panicking him. For whatever location specific reason that region of South Africa has always had under five as the highest hospitalization, way back to 2020.
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Dec 4, 2021 14:57
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edit: nm
actionjackson fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 15:40
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Petey posted:Leonardi has regularly asserted that we don't actually have any research on t cell responses to Cov2 or any kind of correlate of protection for them: I'm pretty sure Shane Crotty's lab had evidence of durable B and T-cell response (at nine months) a year ago (fall 2020) though that was for natural infection, I'd have to track that down. At the time they were tracking a cohort of like 100 recovered COVID patients. I haven't kept up with that but I'll track it down when I have free time later today or someone else can. edit: also that Leonardi and Proenca paper you link is pretty speculative, maybe there's been more work since Dec 2020 but it's describing a hypothesis to explain depleted T-cells in severe covid. I've seen Leonardi linked before and am not super familiar with his work, but at a glance this seems to be his hypothesis, not necessarily a conclusion with strong evidence from several studies to support it. See the Conclusion: quote:The role of an Akt-mediated CD95 signal as a causal factor rather than a marker in this aberrancy warrants exploration since CD95 could be implicated in the exuberant effector differentiation and death of T cells in severe Covid-19 (21). Given the dual function of CD95, CD95-mediated differentiation and death may be advancing T cells to greater effector acquisition, fewer numbers, and immune dysregulation (Table 1). This may be a pathological state yielding tissue damage due to superantigenic stimulation of T cells not specific to SARS-Cov-2. Whether CD95-mediated death and/or differentiation is pathogenic can be tested in murine models of severe/lethal Covid-19, like the K18 hACE2 model (55). Preclinical animal models of severe Covid-19 that recapitulate a type I interferon competent and lymphopenic experience may be useful for the investigation of a strategy that seeks to preserve T cells and reduce their dysfunction by preventing their death and differentiation. This is saying that the hypothesis warrants exploration since it could be part of the T cell death in severe COVID, and that this is something that could be tested in mouse models. of note, this is an "Opinion" article, it says so right at the top Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 15:54
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Fritz the Horse posted:I'm pretty sure Shane Crotty's lab had evidence of durable B and T-cell response (at nine months) a year ago (fall 2020) though that was for natural infection, I'd have to track that down. At the time they were tracking a cohort of like 100 recovered COVID patients. I haven't kept up with that but I'll track it down when I have free time later today or someone else can. I think Crotty's research only demonstrated that naive T cells were significantly protective against COVID, though? https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31235-6, and that in general the protective factor of memory T cells was unknown (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z). But this is maybe old research. E: Leonardi is a t-cell immunologist. Petey fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 16:04
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actionjackson posted:I'm listening to that death panel podcast, I think they said that the total number of people in the US who have died of covid that are white, college degree or higher, age 25-64 is <5k? I believe that was as of end of january 2021, but the the disparity remains pretty awful.
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Dec 4, 2021 16:10
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The vaccines code for spike and spike only, I don't know how we can reasonably think that a virus with a highly mutated spike protein is somehow going to be magically vanquished by T cells that are also essentially programmed to recognize something much different from omicron. That near 90% attack rate in Norway is absurd and paints a pretty clear picture of this. Maybe we find boosters keep severity to something manageable just by slowing poo poo down long enough for your body to spool up its own (novel) antibodies that properly target omicron but goddamn is that not ideal.
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Dec 4, 2021 21:15
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cr0y posted:The vaccines code for spike and spike only, I don't know how we can reasonably think that a virus with a highly mutated spike protein is somehow going to be magically vanquished by T cells that are also essentially programmed to recognize something much different from omicron. The current vaccines do. There is a pan-coronavirus T-cell vaccine in development: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04232-5 And NIAID has rebooted their scuttled 2017-era program for a pan-coronavirus vaccine: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/niaid-issues-new-awards-fund-pan-coronavirus-vaccines I don't fully understand how these would work and what the tradeoffs would be (would they not prevent infection but prevent more serious disease perhaps? Can we expect that based on the research I discussed a few posts earlier?). Just wanted to mention. There's also this paper from May re: a pan-coronavirus vaccine that targets the RBD rather than spike: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03594-0 Petey fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 4, 2021 |
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Dec 4, 2021 22:18
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We need to figure out an oral vaccine if possible, attack the virus's possible animal reservoirs, like rats or deer.
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Dec 4, 2021 22:45
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StratGoatCom posted:We need to figure out an oral vaccine if possible, attack the virus's possible animal reservoirs, like rats or deer. This is kind of a moot point when we can't get our own species vaccinated.
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Dec 4, 2021 22:55
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cr0y posted:This is kind of a moot point when we can't get our own species vaccinated. At least rats and deer don't have rogan and the chuds telling them not to eat vaxx baits.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:14
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StratGoatCom posted:At least rats and deer don't have rogan and the chuds telling them not to eat vaxx baits. as far as we know
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Dec 4, 2021 23:16
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I haven't really worn this style of mask at all but I didn't realize that you were supposed to do a W thing around the nose. https://twitter.com/maxplanckpress/status/1466694602837086208?s=20
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Dec 4, 2021 23:20
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Platystemon posted:This is the world’s oldest known cat, ‘Great Grandma’ Wad of Chanthaburi, Thailand. Great cat. Looks full of cat wisdom. Anyone here have the expertise to say if a virus being more effective at spreading itself throughout the body and binding to it's targeted receptor will make the immune response even more severe and deadly? As info is coming out that omicron binds more effectively to ACE2 receptors and may already be more transmissible than delta, I can't help but feel that reports of omicron variants gaining delta's furin cleavage site mutation bode very poorly. If the corona gains two separate mutations that lead to exponentially growth I feel like the severity is certain to increase. That's on top of some degree of immune evasion to further increase severity for the prior infected and vaccinated.
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Dec 4, 2021 23:31
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Platystemon posted:What I really don’t like about Omicron is that every piece of circumstantial evidence uncovered seems be decisively toward the negative. You could write off things here or there like flukes. Vaccinated people have been involved in superspreader events. Transmission between rooms in quarantine hotels has been documented. We’ve seen highly mutant spikes that went nowhere in NYC wastewater. We’ve seen surges take off in one country or another with not a lot of apparent causation. Children have been sickened in prior waves. Couldn't you have said all the same things about Delta?
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Dec 5, 2021 01:20
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e wrong thread
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Dec 5, 2021 01:49
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freebooter posted:Couldn't you have said all the same things about Delta? Not in all specific points, but where are you going with this? Delta was and is bad and anyone who took it seriously was right to do so.
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Dec 5, 2021 01:56
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StratGoatCom posted:We need to figure out an oral vaccine if possible, attack the virus's possible animal reservoirs, like rats or deer. How important are animal hosts? Places like China have rats and deer and animals and haven’t had mysterious waves of reinfection. In general places that have controlled covid after having outbreaks don’t seem to getting reinfected from their cats or from deers crossing borders or outbreak events coming back from zoos.
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Dec 5, 2021 01:59
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How important are animal hosts? Places like China have rats and deer and animals and haven’t had mysterious waves of reinfection. In general places that have controlled covid after having outbreaks don’t seem to getting reinfected from their cats or from deers crossing borders or outbreak events coming back from zoos. China's willing to lockdown hard, and the fact that probable murine covid has some drat scary mutations means that either vaccination or extermination of those reservoirs is probably a wise choice.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:16
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Viruses that jump human-animal-human are generally bad news, and the rarity of that kind of transmission is overshadowed by the severity of it.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:17
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dwarf74 posted:Viruses that jump human-animal-human are generally bad news, and the rarity of that kind of transmission is overshadowed by the severity of it. I've seen Omicron theorized to be something that made the jump back to our kind from some nonhuman host, I may add.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:22
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Every animal reservoir is another incubation chamber for a worse variant to show up is what I've heard. Though some people paradoxically argue that means we should give up any mitigation strategy because it's hopeless and not actually improve at handling pandemics because a more horrifying one might come along.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:35
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freebooter posted:Couldn't you have said all the same things about Delta? Yes, and all things point in a worsening direction according to him.
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Dec 5, 2021 02:47
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How important are animal hosts? Places like China have rats and deer and animals and haven’t had mysterious waves of reinfection. In general places that have controlled covid after having outbreaks don’t seem to getting reinfected from their cats or from deers crossing borders or outbreak events coming back from zoos. Animal reservoirs are generally a problem for the next epidemic, not the current one, but that can change if they get into e.g. rodents or domestic animals that have a lot of contact with humans or are in the food supply. Right now CoV2 is so well optimized for human hosts, with ongoing selective pressure + permissive conditions to make it ever more optimized, that I don't really worry about animal reservoirs in the near to medium term. The fact that this poo poo is bouncing around in deer, rats, cats, whatever else, and probably will continue to do so indefinitely certainly isn't good, though
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Dec 5, 2021 03:58
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You can distribute oral vaccines using bait, this is done with rabies vaccine for some wild animals. My understanding is that this is difficult to do with herbivores like deer because they're harder to bait, you can't coat something in fish meal and attract them.
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Dec 5, 2021 04:02
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Fritz the Horse posted:You can distribute oral vaccines using bait, this is done with rabies vaccine for some wild animals. My understanding is that this is difficult to do with herbivores like deer because they're harder to bait, you can't coat something in fish meal and attract them. It works with Trump supporters if you put them in Jimmy dean sausages or Black Rifle Coffee Co cans.
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Dec 5, 2021 04:04
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Morbus posted:Animal reservoirs are generally a problem for the next epidemic, not the current one, but that can change if they get into e.g. rodents or domestic animals that have a lot of contact with humans or are in the food supply. And Coronaviruses are known to recombine, which makes both simultaneous Delta/Omicron problematic and who knows what might happen in rats or deer.
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Dec 5, 2021 04:05
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I mean the good news is deer don't live inside of structures and don't tend to have many close interactions with humans other than like, hunters. Rats and mice are a different story, obviously.
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Dec 5, 2021 04:08
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StratGoatCom posted:And Coronaviruses are known to recombine, which makes both simultaneous Delta/Omicron problematic and who knows what might happen in rats or deer. It's interesting to think about SARS-CoV2 recombining with e.g. HCoV-OC43 and targeting a receptor other than ACE2. The emergence of multiple strains with substantially different receptor tropism could be a real headache.
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Dec 5, 2021 05:37
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BobTheJanitor posted:I feel like you kind of need the next tweet to make this clear: So we're pretty much back to pre-vaccine COVID days then?
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Dec 5, 2021 07:24
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Willo567 posted:So we're pretty much back to pre-vaccine COVID days then? There's protection from infection and protection from serious disease. Until there's evidence to the contrary, it's likely the vaccines still offer the later, even if the former is compromised. I feel like the thread title should encapsulate "still too early to draw definitive conclusions about omicron"
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