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fuctifino posted:I hope people realise that by taking away the passports and driving licenses, they are effectively also removing their right to vote. How so?
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Dec 5, 2021 13:40
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Because they are also bringing in laws that require photo ID to vote.
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Dec 5, 2021 13:42
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Oh, did that go through in the end? Lol
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Dec 5, 2021 13:47
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Also makes it almost impossible to get a job or home as employers / landlords are required to check for citizenship ie passport.
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Dec 5, 2021 13:47
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You've heard of Rock Against Racism, now it's time for Europop For Fascism  https://twitter.com/notesfrompoland/status/1466715342198251527
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Dec 5, 2021 13:55
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https://twitter.com/tristandross/status/1467450410675937287?s=19
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Dec 5, 2021 13:55
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I know there are good arguments against them but I do sometimes feel like ID cards were one of new labour's more reasonable authoritarian policies and I'm surprised they recieved as much pushback as they did especially as afaik it's pretty standard practice in many countries
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Dec 5, 2021 13:56
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Guavanaut posted:You've heard of Rock Against Racism, now it's time for Europop For Fascism Nothing has made me more convinced that anti-fascism was the correct choice both morally & aesthetically. loving hell.
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Dec 5, 2021 13:59
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Who the gently caress is "las ketchup"?
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Dec 5, 2021 14:08
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the ladies who sung the famous 'ketchup song'
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Dec 5, 2021 14:09
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OwlFancier posted:Who the gently caress is "las ketchup"? ok grandpa we get it, you don't know what things are (they sang a pop song with a gibberish chorus that got accused of satan worship)
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Dec 5, 2021 14:13
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Bit harsh on his cabinet colleagues is he?
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Dec 5, 2021 14:13
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ThomasPaine posted:I know there are good arguments against them but I do sometimes feel like ID cards were one of new labour's more reasonable authoritarian policies and I'm surprised they recieved as much pushback as they did especially as afaik it's pretty standard practice in many countries You'd think an ideology rooted in marketing execs meeting at trendy wine bars would actually know how to market something, even if they were useless at delivery, but the entire thing was negative messaging. "What can I do with my new ID card that I couldn't before?" "A copper can demand you produce it." is a message that will piss off liberals because of how police statey it sounds, conservatives because it's new and different and might inconvenience them personally, and leftists because it's trivial to see how it could become racist and weaponized against marginalized people. The system they did in Estonia is a good way of doing it, and actually sold itself so people wanted it. "What can I do with my new ID card that I couldn't before?" "You can securely sign for things at post, tax, and council offices. You can protect yourself against ID fraud. You can collect prescriptions. You can sign a legal document. You can log in to participating free wifi spots." literally anything positive would have been a big improvement. The whole thing seemed very tied in to the whole end of history rhetoric that the 'free market' is exciting and hip and innovative and the only thing that the public sector can do is grey concrete and cameras and bop you on the head with a truncheon if you don't show your papers.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:17
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ThomasPaine posted:the ladies who sung the famous 'ketchup song' ???? E: oh that loving thing, I had somehow blocked that from my memory so that's great, now I have to know that.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:20
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Guavanaut posted:The messaging on them was absolute dogshit though. Oh yeah I agree with all of that, but as you say a well implemented system that tied together all your public sector accounts etc and streamlined everything would actually be very cool
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Dec 5, 2021 14:21
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Do you imagine that any UK government would have any interest in doing that, though?
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Dec 5, 2021 14:22
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ThomasPaine posted:the ladies who sung the famous 'ketchup song' I tend to have trouble picking out lyrics in music and TIL that song is in Spanish and not mumbled English.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:23
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Moreover i'd like a form of ID that doesn't cost my entire month's disposable budget every few years.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:24
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Moreover i'd like a form of ID that doesn't cost my entire month's disposable budget every few years. That's the paradox, if it was cheap it would be easy to fake.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:29
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happyhippy posted:That's the paradox, if it was cheap it would be easy to fake. Sure they're always going to be expensive to produce but ideally that cost would be covered or at least heavily subsidised by the government OwlFancier posted:Do you imagine that any UK government would have any interest in doing that, though? Well, yeah, fair point E: oh, I discovered this YouTube channel earlier today and holy poo poo I can't recommend it enough, it's Louis Theroux's weird weekends turned up to 11 and an extremely good way of wasting half an hour https://youtube.com/c/Channel5YouTube ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 14:30
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or just don't loving charge people for a form of ID you're going to require them to carry
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Dec 5, 2021 14:33
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OwlFancier posted:Do you imagine that any UK government would have any interest in doing that, though? Any time since "government can't do good things, only bad things, vote for us and we'll prove it" probably not. happyhippy posted:That's the paradox, if it was cheap it would be easy to fake.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:37
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We could actually be on a path to some comedy gold with this: https://twitter.com/LondonEconomic/status/1467457508931420162
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Dec 5, 2021 14:45
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Guavanaut posted:Harold Wilson probably would if the technology existed at the time. It's up there with the National Giro and the civil expansion of the GPO radio relay and other things that helped modernize the country and bring technological advances to ordinary people. The £5 note, which includes UV dyes, intaglio printing, three different types of holograms, and multiple other security measures we don't even know about, costs about 15p to manufacture. Now obviously that cost is particularly low because of the extremely low level of customisation but I'd be astonished if it would cost more than a quid to make a card with the same level of security as a non-RFID passport ID page, for example.
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Dec 5, 2021 14:59
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fuctifino posted:We could actually be on a path to some comedy gold with this: Cocaine was discovered in 1855 by Friedrich Gaedcke. Boris Johnson uses cocaine in his office toilets. e: ^^^ Yeah, the piece of plastic would be about 50p, but looking at countries that have actually done it properly, a fiver would be a reasonable price to get from "hello i need an id card" to "here is your id card"
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Dec 5, 2021 15:04
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Failed Imagineer posted:That's an interesting case because then you also have the HP movies which exist as their own thing which involved the creative talent of thousands of people and little JKR involvement apart from the initial texts afaik. I've seen the movies and some of them are fun (the Cuaron one at least), but I'd never read the books because gently caress that Having done licenced work for Harry Potter, trust me, Rowling rules that poo poo with an iron fist approval-wise. It all goes to her then through a team of lawyers and she has final say on it all.
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Dec 5, 2021 15:08
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Ooof just found out a few minutes ago that a close friend of 47 years' husband died last night - he had an operation a few days ago so not clear if related. Thing is she is very disabled. She lives near London so I can't dash over there but she says lots of local friends and neighbours are popping in. I don't know how she will manage (he was disabled too but not the same way). It's a weird feeling. I was wondering just this morning when the first of my close friends or siblings would pass on now I'm in the land of the over 60s, and how many I will never hear about. re ID cards. I think the biggest problem with the UK is they wouldn't satisfy themselves with just a photo, name, home town, date of birth, magic number, and sometimes religion or marital status on a card like a lot of countries but would insist on loading it up with all your bank, medical, criminal records too. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 15:14
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^^^^^^^^^^^ my condolences  fuctifino posted:We could actually be on a path to some comedy gold with this: quelle surprise
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Dec 5, 2021 15:15
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happyhippy posted:That's the paradox, if it was cheap it would be easy to fake. This is why we pay taxes? (OK, look, I know not everyone agrees but you loving know what I mean, alright which ever pedant was lining up to drop some MMT) Absolutely no reason why the government couldn't make a very hard to fake card that is affordable even to the unemployed by subsidising it or even making it free, at least for your first card, if you lose it that's on you. I still don't like the idea because I'm a paranoid poo poo & just assume it'll be used in a way that is disastrous because well, look at the last 50 years of British governments (at least)
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Dec 5, 2021 15:42
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Guavanaut posted:You've heard of Rock Against Racism, now it's time for Europop For Fascism Lou's unveiling his new Mambo Number 1488.
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Dec 5, 2021 15:55
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The £5 note, which includes UV dyes, intaglio printing, three different types of holograms, and multiple other security measures we don't even know about, costs about 15p to manufacture. Now obviously that cost is particularly low because of the extremely low level of customisation but I'd be astonished if it would cost more than a quid to make a card with the same level of security as a non-RFID passport ID page, for example. A fun security feature in banknotes which is interesting to look up online but not to try yourself (because it's illegal) is to see what happens when you try to photocopy them.
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Dec 5, 2021 16:10
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With ID cards, it's a combination (in retrospect) of most of the concerns about civil liberties either happening via the government anyway, or being taken up by the new giant tech companies like Facebook et al. Building a giant database with everyone's details in is more concerning when it's the first, rather than the forty-fifth and ten of them got hacked last month. Plus how absolutely dogshit New Labour were at tech procurement in a way that the government is still dealing with and will be for years to come. If they had built and maintained the system and Theresa May hadn't performatively shitcanned it, it would be loving garbage on a level to make "Gov.uk Verify" weep.
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Dec 5, 2021 16:35
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The problem with a 'failsafe' ID card is that routine interactions are focussed on establishing that somebody has the card, not on establishing their ID. At the moment people can muddle through with utility bills and bank cards as well as passports. With a specific ID Card, it'll end up as the sort of situation where if someone gets mugged, has their house burn down, or posts their ID off to get their details updated, and they suddenly can't do anything because they don't have the one magic card. Provisional driving licences aren't always accepted as ID, for reasons that nowhere has been able to articulate. We're getting this way with 2 factor authentication. I can't access my email or bank account without my mobile phone, and I've often wondered what would happen if it broke. The point of failure there wouldn't be that I can't prove my identity, it's that I lack a physical thing. If voter ID laws are passed, I bet there will be newspaper articles about people being disenfranchised because there's been a delay in driving licence/passport renewals or something, and the polling station won't accept anything else as valid.
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Dec 5, 2021 16:45
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I mean the whole point of voter id laws is to stop as many people as possible from voting so that would be working as designed, at least.
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Dec 5, 2021 16:49
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Lady Demelza posted:The problem with a 'failsafe' ID card is that routine interactions are focussed on establishing that somebody has the card, not on establishing their ID. At the moment people can muddle through with utility bills and bank cards as well as passports. With a specific ID Card, it'll end up as the sort of situation where if someone gets mugged, has their house burn down, or posts their ID off to get their details updated, and they suddenly can't do anything because they don't have the one magic card. Provisional driving licences aren't always accepted as ID, for reasons that nowhere has been able to articulate. The way it's handled where I'm from is that you can get a new card from the local council free of charge, you will also get a provisional id from them or police and can use a birth certificate/passport/driving licence if you don't have it. It's also free for replacements, well, technically that is anyway; there's a £10 fine if you need a new one due to your negligence that gets waived if you are destitute (the only fine I ever paid in my life because I'm an extremely boring person). You can also use the council as your address if you don't have other address to use.
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Dec 5, 2021 16:52
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Danger - Octopus! posted:A fun security feature in banknotes which is interesting to look up online but not to try yourself (because it's illegal) is to see what happens when you try to photocopy them. It's not illegal to photocopy bank notes. It's not even *automatically* illegal to make fake notes, the offence is attempting to pass them off as real (or creating them with the intent to do so). There's supposed to be a really easy way of bypassing the EURion constellation lockout on most decent-quality scanners but no two people who claim to know it and have done it seem to agree on the exact method they used - a lot of it is probably just theorycrafting based on the way the detection of it supposedly works. There does seem to be at least one additional feature being used that locks out scanning and copying though (in that the lockout occurs even if you carefully mask off the areas of the note containing the constellation) - the thinking is it's something to do with the curves used in the background of almost all modern notes. Now if you want to get really deep into this, ask yourself why - despite being easily the most-counterfeited note in the world - the US $100 bill was the *last* US note to get technical anti-forgery measures like EURion and holograms, five years after they were introduced on lower-denomination notes and *decades* after the rest of the world started using them.
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Dec 5, 2021 16:53
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Danger - Octopus! posted:A fun security feature in banknotes which is interesting to look up online but not to try yourself (because it's illegal) is to see what happens when you try to photocopy them. Interesting, I knew about EURion, but not some of the other security stuff the article speculates on. I had a research project one time involving security marked papers that I assume used a similar method (entirely legitimate and above board, we were working with the company that made them) and it was quite annoying to make a presentation on our findings because you couldn't work with the images in commercial editing software. I wouldn't be surprised if consumer digital cameras also check for those marks. Banknotes are pretty interesting too, if you have a note and a few bored minutes you can take a closer look at one and try to figure out what all the weird little features and embellishments are for. e: Honestly creating high quality images of notes shouldn't be a barrier to anyone with a couple grand and a bit of imagination, but I can't imagine how you'd create a physical reproduction that would pass even a cursory inspection. I think stuff like EURion is more intended to stop some bright spark running off a hundred £20s on their inkjet and annoying both the local shopkeepers and shortly after that the local courts. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Dec 5, 2021 |
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Dec 5, 2021 17:05
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Goldskull posted:Having done licenced work for Harry Potter, trust me, Rowling rules that poo poo with an iron fist approval-wise. It all goes to her then through a team of lawyers and she has final say on it all. This is why the existence of the rather prolific bootleg Potter larp scene makes me happy. That terf ain't getting any of their money.
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Dec 5, 2021 17:06
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https://twitter.com/leadJ5Tweet/status/1467492463795392521
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Dec 5, 2021 17:45
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It's not illegal to photocopy bank notes. It's not even *automatically* illegal to make fake notes, the offence is attempting to pass them off as real (or creating them with the intent to do so). Thanks, I was half-reading the article and half going on what I was told when someone in a bank I worked at showed what would happen as a demonstration of some of their security. It was a neat surprise!
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Dec 5, 2021 17:48
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