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Saagonsa posted:IVs are good. Breeding would be near pointless without them. drat, you mean i wouldn't be forced to ride a bicycle in circles for hours on end? that really would be a shame to lose such a literal gameplay loop 
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Dec 6, 2021 20:59
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Breeding is fun, I like it. Sorry you don't.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:03
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Breeding lets you get egg moves, higher shiny rates and even outside of all that, it's just a simple way to get more Pokemon of the same species if you need them. IVs are not needed for breeding to have a role in the games.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:03
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I don't mind engaging with IVs but I won't pretend they're not just another example in a long line of players optimizing the fun out of a game - though if you've learned to love the grind, more power to you. I like the idea of IVs still being around but having no way to interact with them, making perfect IVs akin to shinies and good event fodder.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:21
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I think IVs are less "players optimizing the fun out of a game" and more part of the disconnect between pokemon as a single player rpg and pokemon as a balanced competitive experience. Nobody bothers with getting perfect IVs if they want want to beat the elite four, they roll with what they get and if their ratatta is a little slower than most, well, that's fine. But if you want to play pokemon competitively (which is legitimately a very fun and fairly well balanced experience), you need a level playing field, which means everyone needs the same IVs.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:40
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Deified Data posted:I don't mind engaging with IVs but I won't pretend they're not just another example in a long line of players optimizing the fun out of a game - though if you've learned to love the grind, more power to you. Considering in game trainers can have pokemon with specifically perfect IV's and nature that's just giving players a disadvantage they can't address.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:45
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The player has enough advantages over the AI that Cynthia's perfect team still doesn't really level the playing field.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:47
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One idea I've thought of is replacing IVs with some kind of species value. Then a hybrid Pokemon would have stats somewhat influenced by their other parent's species, on top of base states inherent to their species.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:49
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The player has enough advantages over the AI that Cynthia's perfect team still doesn't really level the playing field. Imagine the competitive metagame where every player had access to a 64PP full health restore that cured all status ailments
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Dec 6, 2021 21:52
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You can cram vitamins and bottle caps now at any pokemon to make it competitively viable so unless you’re a purist about IVs you don’t even need to do that much. (Unless D/P remakes dont have this)
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Dec 6, 2021 21:54
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Accumulating the necessary resources for a competitively optimized team is a game unto itself, and one that a lot of people self-evidently enjoy. I think I've bred more optimized mons than I've actually played ranked matches. If you don't want to play that game before entering multiplayer, in days of yore, the only real option you had was to play at a (usually slight) disadvantage - or hack, as some players did. In theory you could get a friend to breed for you, but who has friends? This is why they invented the rental team system. Sword and Shield did a lot to make multiplayer more accessible by integrating the accumulation of PvP resources into the PvE multiplayer mode. BDSP doesn't have that, however. It does have the more generous modern breeding mechanics, however, which give you far more control over the numbers you're trying to optimize, not to mention Hyper Training. And they added a subtle mechanic to the underground where there's an indication if you encounter a genetically superior wild enemy.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:Imagine the competitive metagame where every player had access to a 64PP full health restore that cured all status ailments Consider this but also Max Revives.
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Dec 6, 2021 21:56
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Saagonsa posted:Breeding is fun, I like it. Sorry you don't. New thread title?
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Dec 6, 2021 21:57
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If they want slight variations that make each pokemon unique, they should copy Stadium and alter the hue and saturation values of individual pokemon.
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Dec 6, 2021 22:27
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I'm sure I'm just adding another tiny log to the fire here, but I caved and just got brilliant diamond to play through with my partner. I need to express just how loving janky this game feels. The way the character collides with thin air when going around corners, the way the camera awkwardly snaps into a closeup for some trainer battles but not others, "would you like to use another one? - another WHAT, ILCA?", the poketch just kind of flatly being slapped onto the top of the screen... It all just feels cheap and rushed. Which I'm sure it was. I'm enjoying doing a blind nuzlocke of a gen 4 game since I'd never played DPP, but otherwise there's just a bunch of really weird design things that stick out to me. Xander B Coolridge fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 6, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2021 22:32
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Snake Maze posted:I think IVs are less "players optimizing the fun out of a game" and more part of the disconnect between pokemon as a single player rpg and pokemon as a balanced competitive experience. Nobody bothers with getting perfect IVs if they want want to beat the elite four, they roll with what they get and if their ratatta is a little slower than most, well, that's fine. I think it's important to note that in most, maybe all gens, you cannot actually measure IVs until after you beat the elite 4, so it's not just a matter of not wanting to, but being unable to. It's a symptom of the game tuned for 7 year olds being attached to the game balanced for adults.
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Dec 6, 2021 23:24
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Xander B Coolridge posted:I'm sure I'm just adding another tiny log to the fire here, but I caved and just got brilliant diamond to play through with my partner. I need to express just how loving janky this game feels. Another Repel. It's asking you if you want to use another Repel. re: IVs, I found out post-game that my Belly Drum Aqua Jet Azumarill, who was 100% my MVP and tore massive holes in the Elite Four's teams, has a 0 Atk IV.  At least she has an Adamant nature, but she doesn't let her IVs get her down!
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Dec 6, 2021 23:47
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I think the thing I most dislike about the gamefeel in this -- apart from the weirdly high input delay and the incredibly weird free movement through 1-tile gaps -- is how the engine is apparently incapable of triggering a battle without first resetting the camera to default. So you get this dramatic zoom-in on the chibi models, the Galactic admin or gym leader or whatever does their spiel, and then when the battle should start the game has to first take a second to reset the camera. There's a lot like that in this game where you really feel the time crunch and/or lack of care for details. It's all minor nitpicks, yes, but it does kinda drag the moment-to-moment experience down, to me anyway. Silver Falcon posted:Another Repel. It's asking you if you want to use another Repel. Yes obviously, but what they mean is that's literally all the message says. It doesn't say 'The Repel ran out, use another?', you literally get a message out of nowhere that without context says 'Would you like to use another one?' and it's incredibly jank.
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Dec 6, 2021 23:58
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:I think the thing I most dislike about the gamefeel in this -- apart from the weirdly high input delay and the incredibly weird free movement through 1-tile gaps -- is how the engine is apparently incapable of triggering a battle without first resetting the camera to default. So you get this dramatic zoom-in on the chibi models, the Galactic admin or gym leader or whatever does their spiel, and then when the battle should start the game has to first take a second to reset the camera. Ageeed. It's pretty easy to figure out having seen that window in past games, but it's still stupidly vague for no purpose whatsoever and fails to mention that your repel ran out at all.
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Dec 7, 2021 00:13
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Thank you. Yes, of course I know it means a repel. It's just an example of one of the many small things that make this game feel... Amateurish. I'm high school I used to download and play games made on RPGMaker by teenagers who clearly did not have a lot of experience or lacked resources, but nonetheless gave it go. This feels like that. The camera reset is another thing that bugged me but I forgot to mention, thank you.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:19
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Saagonsa posted:IVs are good. Breeding would be near pointless without them. e: Happy Noodle Boy posted:You can cram vitamins and bottle caps now at any pokemon to make it competitively viable so unless you’re a purist about IVs you don’t even need to do that much. A: they weren't extremely rare/expensive B: they could be used before level 100 as it is, it's faster to just breed for better ones, they only really exist to fix shiny pokemon Blaziken386 fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 01:36
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Shiroc posted:The affection system is the truest match of mechanic and story. My Pokemon carrying through the Elite 4 and the Champion because of our shared love and trust. It’s nice when a Pokémon will straight endure a fatal hit or shake off a status because it doesn’t want you to be sad. That’s probably the closest I get to actually caring about these summations of 1s and 0s these days.
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Dec 7, 2021 01:39
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If Battle Facilities and multiplayer can auto-set levels to 50 or 100 for the duration, then they can set IV’s to 31 too. And don’t whine “My 0 speed trick room build!” because when everyone has guaranteed 31’s that undercutting is all done by nature and EV. The real question is how do you make it so putting all your EV’s into two and only two stats isn’t always the objectively best distribution. Soft Caps maybe? Also make nature’s other than the -the attack stat I don’t use have a purpose.
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Dec 7, 2021 02:57
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Blaziken386 posted:chain breeding for egg moves is interesting and fun Yes. This exactly. Basically it's not fun to force players into a disadvantage they have no real way of dealing with then saying "well you have healing items. Good enough."
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Dec 7, 2021 03:21
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Blaziken386 posted:as it is, it's faster to just breed for better ones, they only really exist to fix shiny pokemon Also monsters that cannot be bred or ones you have an extremely strong attachment to that you want to use competitively. Basically Game Freak doesn't seem to want to completely overhaul the system for the main series that they've been using for years and years. If you think the fanbase was mad over dexit, imagine what would happen if they decided to pull what they did in the transition between Gen 2 and Gen 3 where literally nothing can be transferred and everyone has to start their collection from scratch once more. So instead they've been sanding away the edges and barriers that keep people away from the multiplayer aspect without alienating players who are already there... Which also means keeping the same archaic mechanics. For example, they introduced things that make eggs hatch faster, instead of say, removing egg hatching times and just give you the baby Pokemon then and there. Zuzie fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 03:57
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HootTheOwl posted:Have you never gone up against the elite four and just felt their pokemon were tougher and stronger for their level?
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Dec 7, 2021 04:02
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Seriously guys i'm telling you my mons all have low ivs and that's why i'm getting my rear end kicked by Flint. There's definitely no other reason behind it.
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Dec 7, 2021 04:08
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like I don't know if other people have different experiences here but when I was a kid I just considered elite 4/champion a convenient way to grind levels
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Dec 7, 2021 04:23
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:I think the thing I most dislike about the gamefeel in this -- apart from the weirdly high input delay and the incredibly weird free movement through 1-tile gaps -- is how the engine is apparently incapable of triggering a battle without first resetting the camera to default. So you get this dramatic zoom-in on the chibi models, the Galactic admin or gym leader or whatever does their spiel, and then when the battle should start the game has to first take a second to reset the camera. What's up with this anyway? What's the reason behind the camera having to reset before the battle can start?
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Dec 7, 2021 04:34
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Seriously guys i'm telling you my mons all have low ivs and that's why i'm getting my rear end kicked by Flint. There's definitely no other reason behind it. I'd say I got my rear end kicked from Gen 4 and 5 because my team composition just wasn't that great. I mean Cynthia is in my opinion the hardest champion to beat--like ever. Leon loving who? I steam rolled Diantha but Alder was very difficult given my team as mentioned sucked in a lot of ways.
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Dec 7, 2021 09:38
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IV breeding is the end game for me, once I've completed the national Dex I spend most of my time breeding perfect IV mons. The most frustrating part is I must have hatched several thousand eggs and never hatched a shiny. If I could make a change it would be to make shininess inheritable and figure out some way to replace trade evos, I don't trust someone to tradeback my perfect IV Scizor. Also bottle caps are cheating.
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Dec 7, 2021 09:54
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Flopsy posted:I'd say I got my rear end kicked from Gen 4 and 5 because my team composition just wasn't that great. I mean Cynthia is in my opinion the hardest champion to beat--like ever. Leon loving who? I steam rolled Diantha but Alder was very difficult given my team as mentioned sucked in a lot of ways. Cynthia may have been the hardest champion, but Ghetsis was the hardest end-game battle for me. I think it was the only one I actually almost lost. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 13:32
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Butternubs posted:IV breeding is the end game for me, once I've completed the national Dex I spend most of my time breeding perfect IV mons. Trade evos are easy. Have a tradeback NPC, or better yet just make the Metal Coat usable, like a Fire Stone.
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Dec 7, 2021 13:37
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Butternubs posted:IV breeding is the end game for me, once I've completed the national Dex I spend most of my time breeding perfect IV mons. Go into the Pokegoons Discord, seriously. They do trade backsie evolutions all the time there. I have never heard of somebody having their Pokemon stolen there, and if anyone did, whoever did it would be named, shamed, and banned. Can't imagine they'd tolerate poo poo like that in there. Oh and you should go in there anyway because everyone in there is super nice, generous, and chill. If you ask people will give away their leftovers from their breeding projects for practically nothing.
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Dec 7, 2021 13:40
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I feel like I've forever made Pokemon games too easy because I use buff moves for hard fights even if I don't really need to, I just like the feeling of 1-shot sweeps after hitting Swords Dance or Nasty Plot a couple times.
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Dec 7, 2021 14:03
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I just never ever use healing items in battle. I’ll use a Sitrus berry or heal in-between, but using items in-battle isn’t a thing in the anime, so I always thought it was cheating. And bottle caps are awesome but IVs still suck rear end.
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Dec 7, 2021 15:06
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Silver Falcon posted:Go into the Pokegoons Discord, seriously. They do trade backsie evolutions all the time there. I have never heard of somebody having their Pokemon stolen there, and if anyone did, whoever did it would be named, shamed, and banned. Can't imagine they'd tolerate poo poo like that in there. I do! and I have actually got a perfect IV Scizor that I traded with a goon. But that's still too much socialising for me. e: Do bottle cap IVs carry over between games? If I bottle cap a mon then trade it through home will it keep its new IVs?
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Dec 7, 2021 15:11
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Butternubs posted:I do! and I have actually got a perfect IV Scizor that I traded with a goon. But that's still too much socialising for me. Yes.
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Dec 7, 2021 15:38
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Everyone always complains about Cynthia’s Garchomp but I’ve never had problems with it, somehow it’s always been her Roserade that kills me. That energy ball hits like a truck.
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Dec 7, 2021 15:52
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galagazombie posted:Everyone always complains about Cynthia’s Garchomp but I’ve never had problems with it, somehow it’s always been her Roserade that kills me. That energy ball hits like a truck. roserades can usually be killed by a stiff breeze and grass has lots of weaknesses albeit uncommon attacking types.
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Dec 7, 2021 16:00
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