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Nucleic Acids posted:What is the functional difference? There is no difference and all news stories are equivalent in truth and you should simply believe the ones you like In a black and white way and never think deeper than that.
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Dec 7, 2021 04:05
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:There is no difference and all news stories are equivalent in truth and you should simply believe the ones you like In a black and white way and never think deeper than that. That’s pretty much what a lot of people did with all the propaganda Chris Cuomo ran for Andrew.
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Dec 7, 2021 04:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Is it useful to do this? Are you defending the honor of CNN in this affair, putting yourself out there that CNN would never engage in "fake news", "poor journalism", "bias", or "outlandish sources"? For reference the idea that all journalistic outlets are guilty of allowing these things isn't one worth considering, imho
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Dec 7, 2021 04:52
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Nucleic Acids posted:What is the functional difference? The term has its origin in a pattern of creating deliberately and completely fabricated news based on a target audience's demography or prior beliefs, usually either as really cheap for-rent propaganda or as a click-farming exercise, without a broader set of goals or agenda. Epic High Five posted:Are you defending the honor of CNN in this affair, putting yourself out there that CNN would never engage in "fake news", "poor journalism", "bias", or "outlandish sources"? "fake news" isn't the same thing as "poor journalism", which isn't the same thing as "bias", which isn't the same thing as "outlandish stories". The point is that conflating all of these means we lose the ability to use them to meaningfully describe how the mediated source functions. Maintaining a distinction between these things and applying them is not somehow a defense of CNN; it resists the reduction of concepts into useless terms of abuse. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 07:23
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Epic High Five posted:Are you defending the honor of CNN in this affair, putting yourself out there that CNN would never engage in "fake news", "poor journalism", "bias", or "outlandish sources"? It's not the honor of CNN that matters, it's the deliberate attempt to flatten the media landscape into the belief all sources are equally valid and a facebook post telling a fantastical narrative is exactly the same as a legitimate (but biased) news source.
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Dec 7, 2021 14:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's not the honor of CNN that matters, it's the deliberate attempt to flatten the media landscape into the belief all sources are equally valid and a facebook post telling a fantastical narrative is exactly the same as a legitimate (but biased) news source.
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Dec 7, 2021 15:47
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Was Chris Cuomo a journalist? I never really saw him or Wolf Blitzer or any of the presenters as much more than talking heads. Do they have sources? Do they double check stuff with other sources? Do they do anything resembling journalism?
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Dec 7, 2021 16:07
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A Buttery Pastry posted:People are discussing a specific story though, not CNN as a whole. The narrative that Andrew Cuomo did a good job dealing with Covid is absolutely fiction, on the level of "Trump won in 2020". Obviously, if you zoom out and look at the greater context, the Trump story is revealed as one of the most reality-adjacent ones within its cultural/media sphere, while "Cuomo did a good job" falls into the relatively rare "pure fabrication" category that more mainstream media usually avoids. what?
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Dec 7, 2021 16:40
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"Did a good job", unlike "won the election", is a subjective idea, so it's impossible for "he did a good job" to be "as fictional" as "he won the election that he lost". Anyway, if you're not capable of spotting the conflict of interest in Chris Cuomo interviewing a powerful man who looks like him, talks like him, and has the same last name, this thread might be a little advanced for you.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:31
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I feel sorry for the poor researchers who had to spend this much time listening to Joe Rogan: https://www.mediamatters.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-wrapped-year-covid-19-misinformation-right-wing-myths-and-anti-trans Joe Rogan Wrapped: A year of COVID-19 misinformation, right-wing myths, and anti-trans rhetoric I don't listen to him, but he sounds so much loving worse than I had imagined.
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Dec 8, 2021 04:24
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Smeef posted:I feel sorry for the poor researchers who had to spend this much time listening to Joe Rogan: Crucially, Rogan invents almost none of his claims; he's a pure mediator, initially pay-to-play and eventually self-sustaining, because his audience effectively pays for the right to be an audience for misinformation provided by third parties (though that's now transferred through Spotify as a mediating platform).
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Dec 8, 2021 04:34
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Mellow Seas posted:"Did a good job", unlike "won the election", is a subjective idea, so it's impossible for "he did a good job" to be "as fictional" as "he won the election that he lost". Mellow Seas posted:Anyway, if you're not capable of spotting the conflict of interest in Chris Cuomo interviewing a powerful man who looks like him, talks like him, and has the same last name, this thread might be a little advanced for you.
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Dec 8, 2021 06:42
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Discendo Vox posted:Crucially, Rogan invents almost none of his claims; he's a pure mediator, initially pay-to-play and eventually self-sustaining, because his audience effectively pays for the right to be an audience for misinformation provided by third parties (though that's now transferred through Spotify as a mediating platform). [Leftmost Box on the left: Joe Rogan] [Rightmost box on the left: Spotify] [Box representing noise induction: Discendo Vox] [Leftmost box on the right: a pair of earbuds] [Rightmost box on the right: Me] Hey, maybe the S-W model isn't trash! I can abuse it for my own purposes! Nah, gently caress it, McLuhan's tetrad model is still better.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:25
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Nucleic Acids posted:What is the functional difference? It's more insidious than fake news
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Dec 8, 2021 17:16
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Wasn't "fake news" what was often said by right wingers to dismiss news, developments, facts etc, that were inconvenient or refuted their narrative?
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Dec 8, 2021 22:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:Wasn't "fake news" what was often said by right wingers to dismiss news, developments, facts etc, that were inconvenient or refuted their narrative? It was originally used to refer to the spate of totally fabricated news stories on shady sites (almost all in support of Trump/against HRC) that were spread on social media before the 2016 election. You know, poo poo like "Hillary to institute one child policy" or whatever. Trump rather masterfully turned it around and changed it to mean "bad news for/about me" within days of winning the election.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:Wasn't "fake news" what was often said by right wingers to dismiss news, developments, facts etc, that were inconvenient or refuted their narrative? It didn't have an exact academic definition here until it was time to argue about it and now it does.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:51
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CNN isn't a trustworthy news source.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:20
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MonsieurChoc posted:CNN isn't a trustworthy news source. I mean, there's degrees of trustworthiness, as far as I see it. CNN is probably about as trustworthy as any other mainstream corporate profit-driven news network. I feel like a non-profit, ideologically driven org like The Guardian is probably a bit more trustworthy than CNN, but those are few and far between. You have to keep biases in mind, but in my eyes CNN and networks like it are 1000% more trustworthy than something like, for example, The Grayzone, which is pure unhinged propaganda.
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Dec 11, 2021 04:39
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If you ever have to spend a day in an airport full of tvs, you’ll understand that cnn is in fact unhinged propaganda. It’s endless sensationalist crowd-sourced videos of violent spectacle with alternating hypernormalization of the collapse of capitalism to smooth over crises and ramped-up fear-mongering over potential future crises. It’ll make you feel sick like you ate a funnel cake and rode the tilt-a-whirl, guaranteed.
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Dec 11, 2021 04:56
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How are u posted:I mean, there's degrees of trustworthiness, as far as I see it. CNN is probably about as trustworthy as any other mainstream corporate profit-driven news network. I feel like a non-profit, ideologically driven org like The Guardian is probably a bit more trustworthy than CNN, but those are few and far between. You have to keep biases in mind, but in my eyes CNN and networks like it are 1000% more trustworthy than something like, for example, The Grayzone, which is pure unhinged propaganda. https://twitter.com/davidgraeber/status/1210322505229094912 The original source goes into the definitions of Inaccurate and Misleading, and paint a very grim picture of the trustworthiness of The Guardian. It has a reputation for being left-leaning and fair, but if that was ever the case, it certainly can't be said to be the case today. Sure, perhaps it is trustworthy on a lot of stuff, but if an outlet isn't trustworthy when it comes to the big stuff like the leadership of a political party, then that doesn't really mean anything.
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Dec 11, 2021 08:39
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Also, isn’t there an active ring of TERFs there?
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Dec 11, 2021 17:58
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Nucleic Acids posted:Also, isn’t there an active ring of TERFs there? Cefte fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 13:41
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Cefte posted:More so than most countries, the network graph of editors and journalists in British prestige print media is a carbon copy of the same graph applied to school, university and marriage. Outright and para-nepotistic hiring leads to a founder effect wherever it happens. In the Guardian, it inculcated the germ of TERFery into a petri-dish of blue-stocking second wavers, and unlike the mid-right of the press sector, they're less competent in message control, hence this sort of overt, blunt intervention. Have we done the legwork to figure out of any of them are angry ex Bernie staffers grudgepublishing though?
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Dec 12, 2021 16:32
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How are u posted:I mean, there's degrees of trustworthiness, as far as I see it. CNN is probably about as trustworthy as any other mainstream corporate profit-driven news network. I feel like a non-profit, ideologically driven org like The Guardian is probably a bit more trustworthy than CNN, but those are few and far between. You have to keep biases in mind, but in my eyes CNN and networks like it are 1000% more trustworthy than something like, for example, The Grayzone, which is pure unhinged propaganda. The Grayzone is more trustworthy than CNN, not that it's a hard bar to clear.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Grayzone is more trustworthy than CNN, not that it's a hard bar to clear. The editor and founder of the Greyzone is a Anti-vax lunatic. The greyzone has followed and become anti-vax and anti-lockdown as well. https://twitter.com/themattdimitri/status/1459982483185934338 https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1466793046746537988
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Dec 13, 2021 20:14
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And yet they still cover US imperialism more responsibly than CNN. Zucker News Network is not setting a particularly high bar, it seems. eta: to be a little less glib about it, it's why I think it's important that people curate their news intake not based on associations with specific orgs or entities, but to that entity's particular coverage on specific issues. Any even mildly-supportive 2016/20 Bernie primary voter will agree for example, that CNN's reporting on issues dealing with medical debt and the for-profit-healthcare system we have in the US should be viewed critically above all else, but to question them on issues of US imperialism is generally handled as Doing A Big No-No Because You Have to Trust the Experts at the State Department Because They're Experts. Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 13, 2021 |
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Dec 13, 2021 20:15
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Pharohman777 posted:The editor and founder of the Greyzone is a Anti-vax lunatic. The greyzone has followed and become anti-vax and anti-lockdown as well. Could you expand on this more? There should be some analysis and criticism accompanying the posting of articles/tweets. From the clip, it appears to be anti-mandate of covid vaccines, with a bit of sensationalism proposing it may violate some convention. Most of the clip is about how the media generally uses certain issues to create a hyperpartisan environment where more rational conversation becomes impossible. Saying the grayzone is anti-vax anti-lockdown essentially supports this thesis. The article discussing negative impacts of lockdowns-as-implemented is quite long. Are there inaccuracies or objections to the framing that you have that you could highlight for me? The existence of (reasonably) good enactment of lockdowns in select countries/localities doesn't immediately invalidate a claim that lockdowns in the regions discussed within the article had harmful effects.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:22
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Corky Romanovsky posted:Could you expand on this more? There should be some analysis and criticism accompanying the posting of articles/tweets. The clip states that liberals only support masks and oppose ivermectin out of a need to "ritually stone" people who display too much "political independence". While it doesn't explicitly claim that vaccines are ineffective, his complaints about liberals scoffing at "natural remedies" to COVID certainly suggest he thinks vaccines are unnecessary. Sure, the article does go on at length about various negative impacts of COVID health policy. It also asserts that lockdowns have killed more people than COVID has, suggests that young people have nothing to fear from COVID, insists that the lethality of COVID was massively exaggerated, hints that it believes mask mandates don't work, dismisses social distancing and other NPIs as "futile", claims that vaccines are ineffective against COVID-19, and quotes extensively from "herd immunity" advocates who called for simply letting everyone get infected naturally. It insists that children are "at very little risk" from COVID, and blames school closures on a "hyper-online Western left" massively overreacting to "a handful of cases". The success of lockdown policies in countries like China and New Zealand is dismissed as nothing more than the magical anti-COVID effects of summer weather. If that's not anti-vax anti-lockdown, then what the hell is?
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Dec 14, 2021 05:04
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Lib and let die posted:And yet they still cover US imperialism more responsibly than CNN. Zucker News Network is not setting a particularly high bar, it seems. Who gives a poo poo when you’re actively promoting anti-science nutcases? gently caress off with that ableist garbage.
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Dec 14, 2021 06:07
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Solkanar512 posted:ableist garbage ????
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Dec 14, 2021 06:28
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Man, I love how folks never stop to think how the bullshit they support hurts other people. Why do you think we all get vaccinated? To protect ourselves, to prevent the further spread of a disease and to protect those who cannot be vaccinated. Who can’t get a vaccine? Oh, those folks who are immunocompromised or seriously allergic to the treatment. So when you huff and puff about your “oh they’re so amazingly anti-imperialist”, you’re literally choosing to throw sick people under the bus so you can impotently “own the libs”. Great work, I’m sure the calculus works in your head, but you’re going to have a hard time selling it elsewhere.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:23
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Solkanar512 posted:Man, I love how folks never stop to think how the bullshit they support hurts other people. Why do you think I support anti-imperialist journalism to "own the libs?" Can't I just support anti-imperialist journalism because I'm anti-imperialist? Do I have to be anti-vax to be anti-war? eta: not for nothing, but I, quite literally, just had The Talk with my Back To Brunch Liberal Mom + Sisters about respecting the boundaries of unvaccinated people with legitimate health issues preventing them from taking the vaccine. You're presuming/projecting a lot about me because I endorsed, specifically, GZ's Anti-Imperialist journalism. Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 18:26
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Lib and let die posted:Why do you think I support anti-imperialist journalism to "own the libs?" You're supporting anti-science, anti-vax sources of new, own your ableist poo poo. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 14, 2021 18:28
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Solkanar512 posted:You're supporting anti-science, anti-vax sources of new, own your ableist poo poo. Do you have any better suggestions on where I might find reliable anti-imperialist journalism that's Blue Check Approved?
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Dec 14, 2021 18:30
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I think there are plenty of news sources that don’t write ridiculous things supporting US Imperialism or post nonstop lies about crucial public health issues, so to the extent there is a “bad pile” (which is oversimplifying things, but whatever) let’s throw both Gray Zone and CNN on it.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:44
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Mellow Seas posted:I think there are plenty of news sources that don’t write ridiculous things supporting US Imperialism Such as eta: most of the contention in this thread seems to stem from a whole lot of talking about how to identify a bad media source, without much digging into how to find reliable media outside of the sphere of the professional-academic sphere's credentialed vision. These types of media scopes, that derive judgements of value from academics based on their adherence to state-department provided propaganda and fear of losing "access" to politicians to interview don't do anything but serve the interests of the capital class whose henchmen are the ones both behind, and in front of the cameras. Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 18:44
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Solkanar512 posted:You're supporting anti-science, anti-vax sources of new, own your ableist poo poo. The greyzone is anti-mandate and anti-lockdown. I don't agree with their positions but they're important distinctions in their arguments. Hell, their anti-lockdown sentiments are backed by science I just don't agree with the conclusion they come to and think it's baby with the bathwater.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:48
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Lib and let die posted:Do you have any better suggestions on where I might find reliable anti-imperialist journalism that's Blue Check Approved? This seems like an incredibly bad approach? You want a source that reliably peddles your preferred viewpoint, but there aren't really any that are considered reputable, so you have to settle for this one - even though it also claims that mandatory vaccination is a human rights abuse by libs afraid that horse dewormer will singlehandedly destroy their political empire?
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Dec 14, 2021 19:00
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Main Paineframe posted:This seems like an incredibly bad approach? You want a source that reliably peddles your preferred viewpoint, but there aren't really any that are considered reputable, so you have to settle for this one - even though it also claims that mandatory vaccination is a human rights abuse by libs afraid that horse dewormer will singlehandedly destroy their political empire? Well, we have a fundamental issue in that I (and others) have a fairly un-navigable chasm between the models with which we use to evaluate media. That's kind of secondary though, so we'll leave it aside for now. I don't think it's as bad as you seem to think it is? Let's not use imperialism, let's say, Medicare for All, then - I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) you and I are both in agreement that a fully nationalized healthcare system in the US is the only acceptable endgame for healthcare reform. Given that, would it then be "an incredibly bad approach" to find a source that "peddles [our] preferred viewpoint" for information about the national fight for Medicare for All? That sort of thinking doesn't make sense.
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Dec 14, 2021 19:05
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