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dorium posted:I think there's been a reassessment around it as of late. especially with Scream coming and more people realizing New Nightmare is just the unrefined version of that take. New Nightmare is fine, but there's just too much empty space and it doesnt necessarily feel like a Freddy movie. I mean that's kind of the point, no? To not be a Freddy Movie. Because those last few movies are bad, and I say that as someone who likes Freddy's Dead for how silly it is. But Freddy's basically Bugs Bunny by this point so Craven's entire goal is to recreate him as something new. I rewatched it last month and while its definitely a little unrefined and the effects age bad I thought it was still a very good movie and the best one since 3 by a mile. Also oddly I found myself not agreeing with the Scream comparison at all. Like yeah, its obvious Craven is in a meta place where he's looking at horror from the inside out. But New Nightmare and Scream are doing completely different things. Scream is about horror affecting unstable minds or desensitizing a generation or something. New Nightmare is about horror and story creating something real through faith and belief. I don't find them very similar at all other than where Craven's head must have been at towards the whole genre at the time, trying to find new angles from within. A True Jar Jar Fan posted:The whole original Nightmare series has a fairytale vibe to it (driven home by all the Hansel and Gretel stuff in New Nightmare) so I think it's fine if things don't really add up. The remake loses that entirely so every little thing bugs me more Yeah, I think this is ultimately my take. Like I sort of feel like a small town could cover up a killer if they did it early enough or osmething, but I can't prove that or anything. But ultimately Nightmare really operates on dream logic. Its not as deep or esoteric as Fulci or Phantasm or whatever but its clearly there with stuff not fully making sense and feeling exaggerated.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:52
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Dream Warriors is such a good song I have tix to see Dokken with George Lynch opening and I hope one of them plays it
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Dec 7, 2021 19:54
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Not necessarily. For instance, there were a bunch of familicides in the 70s and 80s that even by the 90s nobody remembered. Look up Ronald Gene Simmons, George Emil Banks, James Urban Ruppert, Lorne Joe Acquin, etc. I guess family annihilators are less interesting to people than killers that they can envision as boogymen. Franchescanado posted:It feels like it's been put in multiple scripts (FvJ, the remake) but then gets swapped out for "caffeine pills" because they can't have the heroes/audience surrogates doing hard drugs as a way to prevent dying. IIRC they inject stimulants in the remake. I don’t remember what they say it is though.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:56
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STAC Goat posted:Also oddly I found myself not agreeing with the Scream comparison at all. Like yeah, its obvious Craven is in a meta place where he's looking at horror from the inside out. But New Nightmare and Scream are doing completely different things. Scream is about horror affecting unstable minds or desensitizing a generation or something. New Nightmare is about horror and story creating something real through faith and belief. I don't find them very similar at all other than where Craven's head must have been at towards the whole genre at the time, trying to find new angles from within. The comparison is more appropriate when you get into the Scream sequels, where you have the Stab movies being produced and then the real life murders start up again etc. etc.
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Dec 7, 2021 19:58
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tfw we will never see Christopher Moltisanti direct Cleaver
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Dec 7, 2021 19:59
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I feel like we're constantly hearing horror stories of mass graves and covered up abusers. Like I can't prove that every child serial killer in the 80s wasn't national news but to some extent I think that's just a lie we tell ourselves to feel better. Something that big would have had to have been found out. Right?
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Dec 7, 2021 19:59
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Drunkboxer posted:IIRC they inject stimulants in the remake. I don’t remember what they say it is though. I think it's adrenaline. Or epinephrine. They just straight up plagiarized Crank.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:00
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Basebf555 posted:The comparison is more appropriate when you get into the Scream sequels, where you have the Stab movies being produced and then the real life murders start up again etc. etc. Fair but if we're comparing New Nightmare to Scream 2-4 I think that changes the math of overall quality and interesting idea. Scream's a better movie for sure and the sequels do kinda go to a similar place. But New Nightmare still feels like its own thing to me.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:03
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Franchescanado posted:I think it's adrenaline. Or epinephrine. They just straight up plagiarized Crank. Crank 2 is the closest film will ever come to making the audience feel like they just IV'd adrenaline or stimulants. That movie is bonkers
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Dec 7, 2021 20:04
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STAC Goat posted:Fair but if we're comparing New Nightmare to Scream 2-4 I think that ditches the changes the math of overall quality and interesting idea. Scream's a better movie for sure and the sequels do kinda go to a similar place. But New Nightmare still feels like its own thing to me. There are some individual elements that people regularly complain about though, aside from the Scream comparisons. Like, how do you feel about the demon Freddy design? Personally I've always loved it but it's pretty unpopular with fans who feel like it's too plasticky and not gooey enough for Freddy. There's also the annoying kid I mentioned earlier, and the fact that Langenkamp isn't exactly Meryl Streep.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:05
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STAC Goat posted:We don''t like New Nightmare? I liked it, and I thought it was a better execution of the theme than In the Mouth of Madness. But it almost seemed little too self referential and cute at times.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:06
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moths posted:I liked it, and I thought it was a better execution of the theme than In the Mouth of Madness. Oh wow. I think ItMoM is the king of this theme/genre. New Nightmare is fine.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:10
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Basebf555 posted:There are some individual elements that people regularly complain about though, aside from the Scream comparisons. Like, how do you feel about the demon Freddy design? Personally I've always loved it but it's pretty unpopular with fans who feel like it's too plasticky and not gooey enough for Freddy. There's also the annoying kid I mentioned earlier, and the fact that Langenkamp isn't exactly Meryl Streep. Oh there's definitely problems with New Nightmare. I'm fine with Heather Langenkamp but the kid gets a lot of tv time, the script is kind of clunky, the entire first act drags a bit with a ton of non actors playing themselves to set up the real world, and a lot of the affects look bad. But I respect what its doing and still have a pretty good time.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:12
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Basebf555 posted:Stage Fright is a Soavi film, he also directed thread favorite The Church and the all-time great Cemetery Man. Those 3 movies are why he's on the Italian horror Mt Rushmore
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Dec 7, 2021 20:25
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MacheteZombie posted:Those 3 movies are why he's on the Italian horror Mt Rushmore He's definitely on mine. A lot of people go with Martino but I'm really not a fan of Martino.
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Dec 7, 2021 20:26
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CODChimera posted:are there any movies similar to Pieces? like unintentional comedy, with next level poor character decision making. and just random nonsense. i'm not sure what you call a film like that Blood Rage!!! You'll love it, guaranteed e: Argento, Fulci, Soavi, Bava, ? I feel like I'm forgetting someone obvious, but maybe I just haven't seen enough giallo to fill in all five e2:VVV I want to throw a punch over that one but I got to see Frizzi live and Goblin's never shown up in person to perform for me, so he wins by default
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Dec 7, 2021 20:27
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MacheteZombie posted:Those 3 movies are why he's on the Italian horror Mt Rushmore Speaking of Italian horror let's have a fistfight I say Fabio Frizzi > Goblin
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Dec 7, 2021 20:27
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Irony.or.Death posted:e: Argento, Fulci, Soavi, Bava, ? This is correct
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Dec 7, 2021 20:32
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Kvlt! posted:Speaking of Italian horror let's have a fistfight *lights cut out* WHAT IN SAM HELL IS THAT?! BAH GAWD... ITS ENNIO MORRICONE'S MUSIC!
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Dec 7, 2021 20:42
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Basebf555 posted:He's definitely on mine. A lot of people go with Martino but I'm really not a fan of Martino. Martino directed a couple of absolutely top-tier gialli at the start of his career but then made another 60+ movies of questionable quality Soavi also only directed a handful of classics, but he worked with Bava and Argento on a number of other essential Italian films so I think he deserves the spot more
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Dec 7, 2021 20:51
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was sort of blown away by The Night House. horror movies about grief are feeling a bit played out right about now but this one was good enough to distinguish itself. just a really good old school ghost story with a stunning lead performance by Rebecca Hall, if you were mad that Toni Colette got snubbed for Best Actress because she gave the best performance of the year but it was in a horror movie get ready to get mad again. edit: easily my favorite thing David Bruckner has ever done as well. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 20:51
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Franchescanado posted:Oh wow. I think ItMoM is the king of this theme/genre. New Nightmare is fine. I feel like New Nightmare's narrower scope just worked better, and tied in with the concept of how the stories we tell are part of who we are. It probably could have worked better without the Elm Street angle, but that was a fun way to get people to actually see it. Candyman is also a great variation on the theme. It's fascinating how folklore takes on its own life, and New Nightmare's use of an existing franchise hurts that - a mainstream commercial property doesn't have the social gravity of local folklore. It could have been a more interesting reboot where there were no Kruger murders. It is just a dumb jumprope song, and everybody knows the myth - but Candyman already did that and better. ItMoM has some of the same problems as NN, but it also cribs from "maybe Lovecraft was right?" to a degree that it becomes unrelatable. We all heard about the legendary murderer who killed 20 kids, the stabby escaped mental patient, or the guy with a hook for a hand. A comparably small kinds of nerd to had extra-dimensonal gods lurking at the threshold of reality. This is somewhat remedied by writing Cane as a bestselling author, but the reality of Wes Craven actually being Wes Craven adds a scoop of plausibility. E: I just learned that Rutger Hauer was considered for Sutter Cane, and I cannot imagine why that didn't happen. moths fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 21:26
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Franchescanado posted:Spookies More people need to watch Chopping Mall but this is kind of underselling it
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Dec 7, 2021 21:33
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New nightmare is my favorite anoes film. I said it
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Dec 7, 2021 21:41
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CelticPredator posted:New nightmare is my favorite anoes film. top 3 for certain.
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Dec 7, 2021 21:41
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NN Anoes Dream Warriors Is my top 3
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Dec 7, 2021 21:51
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Correct
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Dec 7, 2021 21:53
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Two with Freddy representing homosexual urges in a homophobic world was probably the "best" film in terms of having something to say. New Nightmare is close, but a bit of a mess. Three was 
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Dec 7, 2021 21:53
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A Proper Uppercut posted:Can you elaborate on this? I never saw the later Child's Play movies, also I don't care about spoilers. In Bride, the character of Tiffany is introduced as Charles Lee Ray's girlfriend, played by Jennifer Tilly. She then gets transported into the doll of Tiffany. In Seed, Jennifer Tilly plays a version of herself, and the character of Tiffany also exists. At the end, Tiffany puts her soul into Jennifer Tilly's body. Since, she is playing Jennifer Tilly but with the soul of Tiffany.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:14
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moths posted:I feel like New Nightmare's narrower scope just worked better, and tied in with the concept of how the stories we tell are part of who we are. It probably could have worked better without the Elm Street angle, but that was a fun way to get people to actually see it. To add a bit to your argument (although I think ItMoM having an original character as the best-selling author who's books are now breaking reality is a more evergreen premise than what I'm about to describe) Freddy had already rose and fell as a pop culture icon in the 10 years from ANoES to New Nightmare. If you look at the time-line, Freddy Fever is pretty insane, in that his franchise is younger than most (Chucky is younger than Freddy) and his popularity was bigger than most. A true rocket of popularity. While we may remember Jason on Arsenio Hall, Freddy Kruger showed up in sitcoms, on MTV, and even on Nickelodeon! So while Wes Craven is definitely exploring the power of myth in culture, and the idea of a boogeyman being powered by belief/faith, he is directly addressing Krueger's rise (and descent) from pop culture. And I'm sure his frustration with not having any control over companies commodifying what was originally a nightmarish experience he had as a child, plus experiences with Bob Shaye and New Line giving Freddy a life that Craven never imagined, all fueled this too. A lot of this context gets lost because we don't have that anymore. Not really. Annabelle's not showing up on The View or Colbert's show, The Nun isn't appearing on Jimmy Fallon, and we don't really have new "iconic" monsters right now. The Babadook did catch on, but it's not like the Babadook is making appearances. It's all memes or references now. If you'd like more of this context, the documentary Never Sleep Again covers it pretty well, and The Faculty of Horror podcast did two episodes on Freddy Kruger, with Part 2 really digging into how Kruger's rise in pop culture affected pop culture, and how that reflectively affected the film franchise.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:17
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Burkion posted:More people need to watch Chopping Mall but this is kind of underselling it Yeah, I’m pretty sure the comedy in Chopping Mall is intentional. Just look at the opening credits or the “More butter!” guy.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:18
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That's something I had never considered! I missed out on NoES for a lot of reasons when they were relevant, but there's definitely a zeitgeist within the films, but I hadn't considered how that was reciprocated within culture. From part 4 on, a lot of sequences felt like violent MTv shorts or ads aimed at teens, and that might have eaten at Craven. I'll check out those documentaries, thanks! Was there a Randee of the Redwoods cameo in the franchise? Maybe it was just on a TV.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:29
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Kvlt! posted:Speaking of Italian horror let's have a fistfight Absolutely.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:30
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STAC Goat posted:I feel like we're constantly hearing horror stories of mass graves and covered up abusers. Like I can't prove that every child serial killer in the 80s wasn't national news but to some extent I think that's just a lie we tell ourselves to feel better. Something that big would have had to have been found out. Right?
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Dec 7, 2021 22:52
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Jason was on Arsenio Hall around the release of part 8 which I'm sure is on YouTube.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:24
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TOOT BOOT posted:Jason was on Arsenio Hall around the release of part 8 which I'm sure is on YouTube. Of course it is
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Dec 7, 2021 23:26
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That is some amazing television, thank you for that!
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Dec 7, 2021 23:41
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:was sort of blown away by The Night House. horror movies about grief are feeling a bit played out right about now but this one was good enough to distinguish itself. just a really good old school ghost story with a stunning lead performance by Rebecca Hall, if you were mad that Toni Colette got snubbed for Best Actress because she gave the best performance of the year but it was in a horror movie get ready to get mad again. Yeah its a really great movie. Loved the way the house is used.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:06
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Twin Cinema posted:In Bride, the character of Tiffany is introduced as Charles Lee Ray's girlfriend, played by Jennifer Tilly. She then gets transported into the doll of Tiffany. In Seed, Jennifer Tilly plays a version of herself, and the character of Tiffany also exists. At the end, Tiffany puts her soul into Jennifer Tilly's body. Since, she is playing Jennifer Tilly but with the soul of Tiffany. And as per the end of Season 1 of Chucky, she's now both Jennifer Tilly and also another "bride" doll. At least one, that we know of.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:52
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That was at the end of Cult of Chucky as well. This franchise is locked down tight in terms of its silly rear end continuity
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Dec 8, 2021 00:53
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