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Is that in the tech sector? Then yes, UK wages suck. If you dig around you can find better wages but it's tough. Enjoy Brexit.
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Nov 26, 2021 17:08
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Can confirm UK wages also suck in biotech
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Nov 26, 2021 17:24
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Walking away is still an option. I was expecting the lower end of things because I lack industry certs that the UK likes, but you can't get them unless you work for a company registered to sit the tests, and those are rather rare in Ireland where I have just moved from. They seem to have calculated training costs in while I'm pretty sure I just need the company address to give and I'd be happy to pay for the exams myself and take them tomorrow. Moving country is complicated, do not recommend. Brexit bad.
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Nov 26, 2021 17:48
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Lockback posted:Is that in the tech sector? Then yes, UK wages suck. If you dig around you can find better wages but it's tough. Enjoy Brexit. Not sure what the deal is with the UK. I regularly get offers for roles in London that pay 20-30% less than similar roles on mainland Europe (in lower CoL areas). I have no clue how stuff is taxed over there but it seems like a hard sell. This was already the case pre Brexit so it’s not just that.
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Nov 26, 2021 18:13
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No it's not just Brexit but Brexit has definitely put a headwind on some of the recent growth in the tech sector. Its been pretty bad for a while though.
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Nov 26, 2021 18:39
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Not sure why you would voluntarily move to the UK. Especially not post-brexit.
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Nov 27, 2021 10:49
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Negotiated my first non-academic contract (as a consultant). My employer is asking me to add 3 weeks of vacation and undetermined sick days to the number. What is a fair way for me to calculate this to charge them?
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Nov 27, 2021 17:19
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Wibla posted:Not sure why you would voluntarily move to the UK. Especially not post-brexit.
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Nov 27, 2021 19:51
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Not really the thread for this but I truly don't understand how London operates since it's NYC-level cost of living but with Kansas-level salaries from everything I've seen
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Nov 28, 2021 23:23
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Negotiated my first non-academic contract (as a consultant). My employer is asking me to add 3 weeks of vacation and undetermined sick days to the number. What is a fair way for me to calculate this to charge them? your daily billing rate x the number of days
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Nov 29, 2021 13:55
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Seems like you're way underselling yourself if after you negotiated a deal, the counterparty asked you to increase the amount to pay you.
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Nov 30, 2021 00:11
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Mantle posted:Seems like you're way underselling yourself if after you negotiated a deal, the counterparty asked you to increase the amount to pay you. Lol yes Figure out what a upper mid to highly paid person would make as a salary amount, then calculate their hourly rate, then send them back that number If that is too hard, add 35% to the original number you have them
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Nov 30, 2021 00:31
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Mantle posted:Seems like you're way underselling yourself if after you negotiated a deal, the counterparty asked you to increase the amount to pay you. This. My Dad, also an academic, was in a similar position to you: asked to sign a consulting contract for expert witness work. I, a lawyer, called around and asked some buddies what's a market per hour figure. He thought the number was preposterous and so ask for less. Do you have friends/contacts who do this sort of consulting, because it really sounds like your ask was far too low.
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Nov 30, 2021 14:26
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Edit: How many years on this drat forum and I still miss that quote != edit...
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Nov 30, 2021 14:27
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Following up, I pushed back with a counter, they countered with better increments, I came down a couple K, and I'm just below the advertised range ending up smack in the middle of it as long as I pass two exams within six months. I'm paid more than I have been before, and it's thanks to this thread giving me the tools to advocate for myself. Thanks thread! Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Nov 30, 2021 |
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Nov 30, 2021 14:49
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Thufir posted:
Belated thanks to the folks that replied to this a while ago. I have an update: Their first "pre-offer" number back in September was $70k + 15% annual bonus + equity. When I talked to them last week they upped it to $80k and a better title. I was (and am) kinda iffy on if I really wanted to do it so I told them it would take 100k to get a definite yes. Today they got back to me with a final offer of 90k and the same bonus/equity stuff. Still not sure I want to take it but negotiating works!
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Dec 1, 2021 20:06
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Sharing more of this- Staff member gets positioned for a promotion, I (direct supervisor) encourage her and want her in that role. The position opens up, she starts doing it, and says to me "hey, promote me to this officially and give me +25%." I say "right on, let's meet with management." I premeet with just the boss, convince him we should do exactly that. Staff member then says (to me) "actually, make it +66%." Damnit, why didn't you start with that! I already let er rip. Now I am worried if she takes that to boss, he'll lose confidence and start to edge her out (this has happened in the past). I meet with her and attempt to dissuade her, or at least give her a heads up that she's unlikely to prevail. We all meet and she proceeds with her higher number. Management discusses, not going to happen because 1 the company doesn't want to invest in that role that much (much to my chagrin), and 2 she doesn't have the background to work at that level yet anyway. I meet with her again to attempt to soften what's coming. Offer letter went out yesterday with her original ask (+25%), she's yet to show up yet today (not unheard of, but...). I hope she's skiing and taking it in before accepting it's still a decent gig for a year or two and good resume building. If not, it's not like it's a historically challenging time to hire or anything.
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Dec 1, 2021 21:24
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Epitope posted:Sharing more of this- She is doing the role well now yes? So does the paper background matter? How much of this is you making excuses for a company that doesn't let you pay competitive market rate for quality performance because it makes your life lazier to not go out interviewing companies that will permit you to properly compensate your directs and maintain a high performance quality team? Is she really out of touch or are you just not wanting to upset the boat? If so, why aren't you out there looking for better? Not like this isn't a fantastic market to get a better gig, at every level. At this point, people who aren't making an effort to move along with the high performers are going to end up sorted in the bad teams and incompetent companies.
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Dec 1, 2021 23:22
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jemand posted:She is doing the role well now yes? So does the paper background matter? How much of this is you making excuses for a company that doesn't let you pay competitive market rate for quality performance because it makes your life lazier to not go out interviewing companies that will permit you to properly compensate your directs and maintain a high performance quality team? A little of both. The +66% rate is around what 4+ or 10+ years experience pay. She's 1.5 years out of her BS. She's good but there's absolutely things she doesn't get yet, and if I had authorization to pay that much I'd post the position before just picking to her cuz she's here. I've thought about moving on from here plenty, precisely because of this type of thing. Lots of good parts though... Epitope fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 2, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 23:55
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She clearly has another offer for +50% and is asking you to match it
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Dec 2, 2021 00:00
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Sounds like they'd rather have the open head than retain her though, so she'll walk. 
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Dec 2, 2021 00:36
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Actually, this would have been an interesting case to actually hear the threads opinion on from the start. You're doing negotiating on both sides, which is a little more complicated. You want an employee to stick around, perform well, get your teams assignments done properly. You're boss wants to stick within a department budget. Your employee wants to maximize her pay. She originally comes up with 25%, you then add the actual market rate you think is reasonable, which sounds like it would have been a value in between 25% and 66%. And then modify that value based on what you thought the director would adjust it so that you got closest to the number that would properly compensate your employee and this retain her. Because it sounds like you may not achieve that and like you say, not a great hiring market at the moment. I suspect the negotiation done with thread input would have been more likely to get you to your preferred goal here than the current path.
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Dec 2, 2021 00:49
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I dunno, it seems pretty cut and dry to me that she got a better offer but is not dumb enough to say "I got a better offer," and if they don't meet her ask she will probably immediately give her resignation. Not sure that OP could have played it differently so as to arrive at any different result.
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Dec 2, 2021 00:51
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People do unreasonably value the status quo sometimes though. They may not need to meet the alternative offer if she's happy. I do think it was a mistake just to run with whatever value she threw out, when I get the strong impression both he and now another company actually valued her skills higher than that. He's more interested in her retention than the total dept budget, and he'll be the one dealing with hiring her replacement. If he'd gone to bat for a higher number than her underestimate at the start, even if it didn't match the other offer, she may have had enough good feelings about that to stick with comfortable status quo.
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Dec 2, 2021 01:00
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I doubt she has an offer in hand unless I'm really bad at reading people, or she's got a really good poker face. Doesn't matter, I will feel lucky if she stays another 6 months after this. Churn and burn is obviously how this place rolls. I'm glad I posted, this is encouraging me to update my resume :P As for how it could have gone differently, I think my moving on her first number set us on a less good path. If she'd started higher, or I'd waited, I think it would have landed +33% or so. I've been trying to get more resources devoted to this for my entire tenure. "They" don't just want to leave the open head, they want to neglect the whole department. Or I guess, like you say, I could have raised her number for her. That didn't occur to me at the time, and ya maybe goons could have pointed that out.
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Dec 2, 2021 01:06
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Yeah, you want to aim higher than she asked so when your boss says "no, only +25%" you can go back to her and be all "good news!". If your boss had given a bigger number then you look like a loving hero for getting her more.
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Dec 2, 2021 15:13
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knox_harrington posted:Thanks, Éric. I didn't get asked if I am interviewing, but set the expectation that I need an effective date for the promotion and compensation details. I think the trap is set. I've heard back from HR at the new company and they want to speak more about my offer: quote:Hello Knox, As I mentioned before, when we spoke previously she wanted to know what my bonus salary %age was in order to compensate my loss, which of course is not in my interest as it will to some extent show my current salary. I am thinking sending my compensation statement with everything numeric redacted except my actual 2020 bonus amount. If she complains I guess I can say "I can't share my bonus %age as I am contractually obliged not to disclose my salary". I will also add in a redacted Fidelity statement showing my LTI that vests in the first half of next year. Do I even need to bother with any of this? I'm not disclosing my salary and they're just going to have to take that as read, should I just say "I want $X which will cover my 2021 bonus and stock for the first half of 2022, as discussed". * she has not really shared definite "good news" except that they will be in touch further e: I note she has given up trying to get my current or expected salary. Should I try and avoid saying a number here as well? knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 15:11
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knox_harrington posted:should I just say "I want $X which will cover my 2021 bonus and stock for the first half of 2022, as discussed".
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Dec 3, 2021 15:24
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knox_harrington posted:If she complains I guess I can say "I can't share my bonus %age as I am contractually obliged not to disclose my salary". Absolutely, positively do not say this if it's not true. If it is true, I wouldn't even send them redacted documents. I would strait up tell them the percentages. They are not directly asking for 'proof' here. I wouldn't assume they are.
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Dec 3, 2021 18:58
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It is true. I am obviously not telling them my current salary. Are you saying I should tell them I got 177% of 18% of a number they don't know? That seems... weird. I also need them to cover my stock which is more complicated as it's across a few different grants. I think I should either just give them a number or tell them to offer an amount that would cover a bonus plus year 3 stock vest for someone at my level. e: previously this person said they wanted proof of the bonus and stock amounts to be able to pay it knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 3, 2021 |
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Dec 3, 2021 19:17
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Just tell them the number you require. Then if they reject that, you can do your redacted document plan.
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Dec 3, 2021 19:41
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Or can you negotiate base salary first? After you agree to a number you don't need to worry so much about obfuscating your signing bonus. I'm assuming this is just one-time signing bonus.
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Dec 3, 2021 21:00
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Yeah that's a good point
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Dec 3, 2021 22:14
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No raise for me, don’t meet minimum employment time  Although probably going to assume a principal role in the next year do a chance to renegotiate!
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Dec 4, 2021 02:30
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She continued to negotiate, both the number (37.5%) and the role. Boss giving the nod. I'm stoked, now thinking she may stay a year or more. A great outcome for me, I think a good outcome for her, and if upper management is able to take head out of rear end I think they'd see it's a good outcome for the company. Negotiation is good for everyone
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Dec 5, 2021 20:48
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37.5% increase is a good year.
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Dec 6, 2021 00:35
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Arquinsiel posted:you look like a loving hero for getting her more.
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Dec 6, 2021 02:21
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I’m currently working a contract job for a vendor (V1) of a pharma company (P1). I had gotten a direct hire offer from another pharma company (P2) and I started this week. I resigned my position with V1 stating that I got a direct hire P2 without naming them. V1 called back asking whether I’d want to work for P1. My first thought is no, I don’t want to be a nuisance because I forced their hand. However, there’s no harm in telling them they need to provide a lot more $, plus signing bonus, correct? I believe the direct hire benefits would be nearly identical at either pharma company. The only other thing is that the work for P1 would be mostly in Florida and P2 would be mostly southeastern region and I would prefer that over just Florida. I also like the opportunities and pipeline of P2 more. If I forced P1 to up their timeframe and take me, would that be a black mark on my record?
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Dec 7, 2021 23:34
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whats the reason you don't want to work for P2? i don't seen any resason in there
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Dec 8, 2021 00:05
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Cacafuego posted:I’m currently working a contract job for a vendor (V1) of a pharma company (P1). I had gotten a direct hire offer from another pharma company (P2) and I started this week. I would tell V1/P1 you'll tentatively accept their offer, pending salary negotiations. Normally I'd say you already burnt that bridge don't go there, but as a direct hire for P1 you're in a very good position to pick up a principal pharma guru title and paycheck to go along with it, especially if you're critical to their success of some multi billion dollar pharma project If the offer is too low just walk and see what happens, sounds like you have substantial leverage here
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Dec 8, 2021 00:05
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