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here have an experienced track driver almost making GBS threads himself in fear at how terrible the model s brakes are https://youtu.be/tdtvhsfZ9Xo
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Dec 8, 2021 06:58
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Russian Bear posted:A yoke only works if you never have to take your hands off the wheel like in a F1 car. Which Toyota intend to do with their new EV because it will not have a mechanical connection to the wheels, thence no quick rack required. Which frankly is one of the most godawful hosed up ideas ever shat out. Steer by wire is a flat gently caress off.
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Dec 8, 2021 07:40
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Queen Victorian posted:We had a brief era of screen-centric devices with non-interactive screens and non-keyboard & mouse interfaces. Think early gen iPods. Didn't last long because touchscreens became a viable alternative pretty quickly. So if you were to make a car interface with no touchscreen inputs, you'd probably cook up something akin to the iPod interface to navigate around the options. You would need to put a lot of care into the software interface to work with the less-than-full-keyboard input and reduce the need for most if not all input more complex than poo poo like yes/no and previous/next. The biggest issue would be inputting addresses for navigation. I can't think of any examples right now since they all blur with time, but certainly some manufacturers do something like this for common stuff. Using the steering wheel buttons and scroll wheels to navigate through selected functions, usually in the drivers cluster. Some are only OK, some have made me think "wow that's a neat way of doing it". To me personally, this deals with the vast majority of poo poo I need to mess with while driving. Inputting destination can be done sitting still or yelling at Siri etc. The config options buried behind menus? Don't need to gently caress with them while driving either. I'd rather still have buttons for HVAC than a poo poo digital implementation, but would take a good digital implementation, because I tend to set and forget and don't live where gloves are a thing. The only times I need to defrost my screen, well I'm not moving anywhere till the screen clears so once it's doing its thing and I'm off, all I need to do is mash the AUTO setting again. Yes, indicators, high beams and wipers should be stalks, steering buttons or maybe dash buttons at worst, cos those are the only things I've ever needed fast. Yes there are issues with touch screens in cars, and certain raving loons like Elon are just going hog wild, but on the other hand some people bang on like they're constantly tweaking settings as they bump along the Khyber Pass or something.
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Dec 8, 2021 09:43
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Wheeee posted:here have an experienced track driver almost making GBS threads himself in fear at how terrible the model s brakes are The Plaid does not in fact have terrible brakes - It is a decently sized Brembo kit that is perfectly fine on the road and even for a run or two at a drag strip before you get booted out for being too fast without safety equipment. However exactly like plenty of far slower cars the standard pads and rotors are not that track capable and Tesla are not saying otherwise, if anything they are saying it loud with the release of a ceramic carbon upgrade coming next year- https://electrek.co/2021/11/24/tesla-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit-model-s-plaid/ Or do what actual sane track day bros do and pony up for after market if you want to cut some laps now. Unplugged Performance probably can hook you up.
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Dec 8, 2021 10:15
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Pretty much every review of the plaid calls out the brakes as being subpar and there’s a ton of threads on TMC about them being lovely. It’s a 140k, 5000lb, 1000hp car, the brakes should probably be better than “good enough for driving the speed limit.”
YOLOsubmarine fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 10:42
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Pretty much every review of the plaid calls out the brakes as being subpar and there’s a ton of threads on TMC about them being lovely. It’s a 140k, 5000lb, 1000hp car, the brakes should probably be better than “good enough for driving the speed limit.” If you are driving hard enough to give Brembos decent stress on a public road then you should not be being a dickhead on a public road - the streets aint a race track, don't drive like it's one esp in hugely powerful cars (Which Tesla aint alone in this). The previous statement stands - you want to track it, go change the setup like is pretty much standard practice with just about any car or hang a bit and get the carbon setup OEM when it's availible. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 12:10
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I think the data provided indicates that the brakes are undersized and spec'd for their application and not an issue with the brake manufacturer. It feels like you're being deliberately obtuse.
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Dec 8, 2021 13:40
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Also Brembo is not able to apply magic to their brakes and make them stop on a dime if the OEM requirements are too weak. They will build the units to spec and not give a smidge of care if the cars doesn’t brake well when the OEM requirements are fulfilled.
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Dec 8, 2021 14:13
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The Plaid does not in fact have terrible brakes - It is a decently sized Brembo kit that is perfectly fine on the road and even for a run or two at a drag strip before you get booted out for being too fast without safety equipment. However exactly like plenty of far slower cars the standard pads and rotors are not that track capable and Tesla are not saying otherwise, if anything they are saying it loud with the release of a ceramic carbon upgrade coming next year- https://electrek.co/2021/11/24/tesla-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit-model-s-plaid/ A lot of these owners think otherwise, how long have you had your Plaid? https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-plaid-brakes-are-terrible.244778/ Goober Peas posted:I think the data provided indicates that the brakes are undersized and spec'd for their application and not an issue with the brake manufacturer. A mandatory part of being a huge Tesla stan?
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Dec 8, 2021 15:15
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Pretty much every review of the plaid calls out the brakes as being subpar and there’s a ton of threads on TMC about them being lovely. It’s a 140k, 5000lb, 1000hp car, the brakes should probably be better than “good enough for driving the speed limit.” Lmao my Mach-e has 5 mm wider brakes than the Model S despite costing less than half as much. My car functionally has a top speed of like 105 I bet I could coast down from top speed faster than a Plaid could stop from its top speed using its brakes.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:22
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Is the Plaid unable to stop safely more than once or twice from its top speed, or does it kill them in normal driving? I mean, most cars not meant as track toys will cook stock brakes when driven hard for a while on track. Is it just so fast that it’s trivially easy to cook the brakes, or are people expecting it to be a GT3 when in reality it’s an old muscle car?
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Dec 8, 2021 15:53
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Not that I've seen many reviews for it, but from what I have seen seems to suggest they should be perfectly serviceable for reasonable spirited driving on the streets, but repeatedly drag races or any serious use will have you wishing for better brakes. Which I think is par for the course for most fast vehicles honestly? Not many things legitimately come ready for the track from the manufacturer. And while it is loving fast I don't think they really make it out to be "a car you can track"
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Dec 8, 2021 16:02
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What techbro is going to gauge the size of his brembos before trying to hit 200 in a stoplight race to his gated community? If Tesla is going to make a 1000 hp car any idiot could drive they should do a little better being a nanny for their target audience. It’s just good PR.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:04
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Queen Victorian posted:I also like to think the focus back then was more on a car and driving experience for you, the driver-owner, rather than for your peers judging your status/wealth/taste in cars. that wasn't really true, the 3 series had a rep as a status yuppie mobile in the 1980s
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Dec 8, 2021 16:28
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that wasn't really true, the 3 series had a rep as a status yuppie mobile in the 1980s gently caress you, that's my name! You know why, mister? Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight, I drove an eighty thousand dollar BMW. That's my name!
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Dec 8, 2021 16:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that wasn't really true, the 3 series had a rep as a status yuppie mobile in the 1980s This was always my single biggest trepidation about driving a 'luxury' nameplate. I care very little about how the car is perceived by other people, and yet driving certain ones can make you feel douchey unless you're deadset about not giving a gently caress. I don't like being perceived as a douche.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:45
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Sab669 posted:Not that I've seen many reviews for it, but from what I have seen seems to suggest they should be perfectly serviceable for reasonable spirited driving on the streets, but repeatedly drag races or any serious use will have you wishing for better brakes. You can take a BMW M car or a Mustang or a Camaro ZL1 or many other “performance” cars to a track and not roast the brakes after one lap.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:50
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The ZL1 is a completely different animal than just a regular old Camaro though. And while I don't think I'd necessarily put some of the M cars in the same category of Track Monster, but for the performance division of a luxury brand I'd definitely put them a cut above just 'regular' fast cars and expect them to be more competent out of the box.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:58
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Sab669 posted:The ZL1 is a completely different animal than just a regular old Camaro though. And while I don't think I'd necessarily put some of the M cars in the same category of Track Monster, but for the performance division of a luxury brand I'd definitely put them a cut above just 'regular' fast cars and expect them to be more competent out of the box. The Tesla website calls the Plaid “the highest performing sedan ever built.” Are you arguing that it’s not actually a performance car?
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Dec 8, 2021 17:06
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if you're going to sell a car that can do a 9-second standing quarter mile by simply mashing the accelerator you should probably also ensure that car can safely slow down from said 9-second quarter mile luckily Tesla's primary buyer demographic isn't car people, it's trendwhores and gadget nerd dipshits who don't know any better
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Dec 8, 2021 17:08
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The Tesla website calls the Plaid “the highest performing sedan ever built.” Are you arguing that it’s not actually a performance car? Looking over the actual page for the MS - quote:All Model S powertrains, with updated battery architecture, are capable of back-to-back, consistent 1/4 mile runs. Yea, alright, if they're explicitly calling out their drag strip capabilities they should definitely do better.
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Dec 8, 2021 17:22
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I like how they said the powertrains are capable of it, not the car. Because they know.
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Dec 8, 2021 17:36
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Yea I had that thought too  Funny how they only mention the batteries
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Dec 8, 2021 17:39
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:that wasn't really true, the 3 series had a rep as a status yuppie mobile in the 1980s Oh definitely, but it was nice to pretend that there was that other element, the one that was important to me personally, at the core. Over the last couple days I've been experiencing a rush of nostalgia for my old bimmer and am projecting. I guess the XM concept ultimately accomplished its design goal in triggering a strong reaction and getting me to think about BMWs. Whether the reaction was positive or negative didn't even matter. On 80's yuppiemobiles: my mom met my dad through mutual friends who'd take them out to the country to do ranchy outdoorsy stuff. My dad drove my mom home from one of these trips in an old stock truck and she was enamored because he was this poor romantic cowboy and totally not like the BMW-driving corporate yuppies she'd previously dated and had enough of. Then he came to pick her up for a date in his real car, which was of course a BMW.
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Dec 8, 2021 17:40
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Throw the German automotive industry into the ocean. The one true XM.  upload images to url
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Dec 8, 2021 18:11
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i own every Bionicle posted:Is the Plaid unable to stop safely more than once or twice from its top speed, or does it kill them in normal driving? Is that the metric by which you judge whether or not braking hardware is sufficient? Brakes don't catch on fire during normal driving? Nobody thinks the Challenger is a factory track weapon either but it still has better brakes than the Tesla despite having less horsepower, less weight, and costing half as much.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:46
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KillHour posted:BMW iDrive can be controlled entirely with the puck in the center console and so can whatever Mazda's is called. Probably also Audi and Merc, but I don't know for sure. Lexus, too, but they managed to make it terrible in the process.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:08
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bird with big dick posted:Is that the metric by which you judge whether or not braking hardware is sufficient? Brakes don't catch on fire during normal driving? No, I mean to say that it’s reasonable to expect a car to have enough brake capacity to always stop safely when driven normally, somewhat spiritedly, and from top speed a couple of times in succession, but the constant abuse of track driving will kill the brakes of most street cars. I’m trying to figure out how bad they really are on the Plaid. For the record, I think the Plaid being as cheap, fast, and unsorted as it is, while clearly being marketed towards non-car people, is extremely irresponsible and quite on brand for Tesla. It should have better suspension, aero, brakes, and tires, and should be able to stop quicker than it accelerates.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:18
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Mr. Apollo posted:Audi's can but they've moved to a touch screen only interface which isn't ideal. I like BMW's setup the best where you can use the center puck or the touch screen. Due to supply shortages you may not be able to use the touch screen on most new builds coming through now.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:32
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The question I have about the Tesla's lovely brakes is why those nerds don't put some special software on it to keep the car limited to speeds within the present confines of the braking system. Like this: if (madeHighVelocityStopInLastTenMinutes == true) { limitSpeed = true } or if (brakesAreHot == true) { limitSpeed = true } or better yet if (gps.inResidential == true) { maxSpeed = 25 }
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Dec 8, 2021 21:46
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It is very funny to me that in this day and age, the hip and modern Tesla still goes by the traditional American strategy of building a world-class powertrain attached to an afterthought of a car. I don't think it could be any more stereotypical.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:47
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Lol @tesla who by law have to put a physical hazard light button. If it was up to them it would be gesture controlled or some poo poo.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:33
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Queen Victorian posted:By "GUI-less" do you mean no screens at all or just no using touchscreens for input but still using non-interactive screens for display? The former would be effectively impossible if you were to include all the computerized functionality found in a modern car (but would work if your only electronic things were headlights, climate control, and a radio), but I think the latter would be doable with some caveats. I would accept screen for showing info, but for this exercise I think the requirement would be that you can execute every function without looking at the screen. My old Saab has an LCD screen and up/down buttons to switch between the 4 different views, but it could easily have four dedicated buttons.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:33
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i own every Bionicle posted:No, I mean to say that it’s reasonable to expect a car to have enough brake capacity to always stop safely when driven normally, somewhat spiritedly, and from top speed a couple of times in succession, but the constant abuse of track driving will kill the brakes of most street cars. I’m trying to figure out how bad they really are on the Plaid. It’s $/£130k isn’t it?!
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Dec 8, 2021 22:42
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smooth jazz posted:Lol @tesla who by law have to put a physical hazard light button. If it was up to them it would be gesture controlled or some poo poo. Gesture controlled? Please. They would write a process that would, based on sensor data and their algorithm, turn on the hazard lights as it sees fit.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:57
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Bape Culture posted:It’s $/£130k isn’t it?! Yes, but it accelerates as fast as a Bugatti Veyron, carries as many passengers as a Rolls royce Phantom, Stops in a shorter distances than a Volvo VNL, and they're like $2m combined, it's a bargain!
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Dec 8, 2021 22:59
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Goober Peas posted:I think the data provided indicates that the brakes are undersized and spec'd for their application and not an issue with the brake manufacturer. Or being absolutly realistic and knowing a long list of cars that have perfectly serviceable brakes on the road that melt down on the track. quote:A mandatory part of being a huge Tesla stan? Even the most forgiving poster in AI shits on Tesla when it's called for. My *real* opinion is there's a whole line of excessively fast, poorly engineered cars out there and the Plaid is just another sad example of an industry that gives no fucks about dropping yet another dangerously fast product into unskilled and careless hands. This is exactly the kind of car where even if the right brakes, cages, safety gear, tyres I'd be steering hard clear of - it's too loving fast for even resonably skilled hands. It's a numbers wankfest for the techbros at their Soylent cafe because they want to feel more virile swinging their tiny dick. That said, the brakes are still fine for daily driving - if you want to go fast, then get the brake package that can support it.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:49
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We interrupt your new car discussion to bring you a Sheep Game Update! (click here to play today!) We're just under two weeks to the deadline of December 20th to get your Sheep Game entries in, and so far we are way down on entries compared to normal - the last two years we've had over 60 participants, this year we are on track for less than 40...this is disappointing AI, we can do better than this! Come take part in this end of the year tradition and have a little fun with your fellow posters, as we've done for the last seven years!
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Dec 8, 2021 23:52
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Powershift posted:Yes, but it accelerates as fast as a Bugatti Veyron, carries as many passengers as a Rolls royce Phantom, Stops in a shorter distances than a Volvo VNL, and they're like $2m combined, it's a bargain! I don’t know who’s joking any more I hate electric!!!!!!
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Dec 8, 2021 23:58
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It is really weird for me to admit that a 1000hp car is genuinely unlikeable but Tesla managed it. I do agree that it is way too fast - I doubt I could drive that thing well, let alone someone who has never triggered their ABS before
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Dec 8, 2021 23:59
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