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thebardyspoon posted:Anyone got any advice for being the sole QA tester on a project that feels like it is rapidly getting unmanageable. There is a lot to unpack there. I'm reading into a lot of this and making assumptions so bear with me here. What I feel is lacking here is a defined process and points of responsibility. I don't really want to say 'SLA' since everyone hates that poo poo, but...SLAs do help define a lot of that. First, would be understanding what the process is. Ideally, you put in a bug with steps, impact and severity. Producers organize the work based on the information given. Designers make changes. You verify and either close the bug or reset it to active. I feel the key piece we are missing here is that Producers aren't involved in this process and designers are kind of doing their own thing when they want to, which just doesn't work too well around the bugfix/polish step. The producer layer gives you an 'unbiased' 3rd party to assign the work, and also ideally holds the team responsible for those commitments. The project also needs to give the QA process (either through leads, producers, or yourself) enough teeth to say with some authority, 'fix this before we cut an RC' and, 'this isn't fixed yet. Try again'. Is there a body of test cases already available? Is the testing you are doing based on some functional suite per feature, or is this just full exploratory all the time? The latter is pretty dangerous without massive volumes of cheap test (and even then, it's not great). Outsourcing QA is a huge yikes. Sometimes it has to happen, but depending on how complex your game is, and how complex state can be, this might go south super fast. Plan for the worst - you should be able to set some ground rules about how to enter bugs, steps, what the bug verification process is if there is one (there probably should be one). Test cases should be written such that someone that knows nothing about the game or even the genre can perform those steps and enter in bugs. Exploratory should be out of the question. Contract testers should be working off of what is effectively a checklist of functional tests. It's a lot of tedious work, but if it's done well, results are generally positive. Ideally, the discussion starts with, 'how do we make this game more testable?'. Your cheat and debug process should be expressive and accessible. This is pretty easy to do on PC and harder to do on other platforms. Mobile testing actually totally sucks here. Either way, the questions need to be asked and answered. Truly ideally: This is a discussion that happens in pre-prod. Testability should be a foundational goal in debug design and func from day 1. Designers asking for testing to be done is probably OK when the project afford QA more time and individual analysts are encouraged to specialize, but most of that work should be dictated by QA, not by the game team's ICs. If it must come through that way, then it should be coming through producers, who ideally have a better sense of what the whole state of the project is. In short, it really sounds like you need to stand up a real process to handle work that is both flowing into design, and requests coming from design. Producers should be shouldering that work where possible. Outsourcing QA requires very, very specific tests for both test steps and entering bugs. Focus on process and then start calling out risks where you see them. The job of QA isn't necessarily to make sure All The Things are fixed, but rather to facilitate the fixing of the most things as possible, and make production and design aware of the state of the project by documenting risk through the lens of QA. PM if you want to chat more - QA process is kinda my specialty and junk. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 22:05
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:In short, it really sounds like you need to stand up a real process to handle work that is both flowing into design, and requests coming from design. Producers should be shouldering that work where possible. Outsourcing QA requires very, very specific tests for both test steps and entering bugs. Focus on process and then start calling out risks where you see them. The job of QA isn't necessarily to make sure All The Things are fixed, but rather to facilitate the fixing of the most things as possible, and make production and design aware of the state of the project by documenting risk through the lens of QA. Thanks for the answer and yeah that was a bit of a stream of consciousness brought on by today and this past week, you've given me a lot to unpack as well but more cohesively than I did. Would it be alright if I PM'd you a few other questions since you seem to know how to navigate this situation? I doubt anyone I work with is reading this forum but just in case there's some stuff I'd like an opinion on if possible that might be a bit more sensitive. Most of my IRL friends who've worked in games have left the industry in the last few years so not got many people to ask for advice. No worries if you'd prefer not as well, the advice already given is appreciated. Edit: Ah, I see you've offered, thanks very much. It's quite late where I am so I will ask you some stuff another day. I have done some of what you've suggested already (what you describe as the process is what I put in place pretty much straight away, it just gets gummed up after I've logged stuff because nobody wants to take the bugs which yeah, isn't ideal). It's a very small company compared to anywhere I've worked before, we have a producer who seems great and like she knows her stuff but is pretty much in meetings all day every day, a lot of the senior staff are in general and I'm not so getting anything to change feels like running into a brick wall. I'm getting two more QA testers shortly but had to argue to get the extra 1 (and it's a 4 player multiplayer game so we still can't properly test it most of the time until we get this outsourced support unless someone makes themselves available). Having to learn a lot of new stuff just by dint of it being a small company as well, like interviews. Used to just take part in the interview, give a thumbs up or a thumbs down and then someone else dealt with setting them up, going through CVs and letting people know if they're successful or not. Similarly I've never had to deal with outsourced QA companies myself before, either I was a tester/lead at one of those companies or I was a lead at a company that had a deal with a vendor in place long before I came onboard but either way someone way higher up dealt with the actual talking part. It's very different here and I don't necessarily have the closeness with the team that you'd think would be the balance cause of coronavirus. Thanks again as well.
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Jul 6, 2021 23:26
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QA project management is one of my specialties, and I've been in a similar position before with a team that didn't value QA, CBA covered the main points really well, a couple things I'd add. Not all outsource QA teams are bad, I've worked with a great one and was briefly on a very capable one (along with several mediocre and outright bad ones), but its really a case of you get what you pay for and few studios want to pay more than they have to for QA testers even if higher quality would be cheaper in the long run. You really need to get buy in from your producers or the project leadership, without it you're going to be pounding your head against the wall. I've found the best way to get buy in is with a cost benefit analysis, it's a lot easier to convince people to support QA initiatives and resources when you can demonstrate in simple numbers how it affects the bottom line. I had a lead who did this masterfully once to push an initiative to embed testers in the dev team so they could test earlier in the dev process. He pointed out that if a bug goes live and needs to be hotfixed, it costs tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue, time and backend deployment costs. If we found that same bug in the integration phase it would have cost a couple days of a programer time to fix If we found that bug during implementation it would have cost a few hours of programmer time to fix. If we had found the bug in pre-production it would have cost nothing to fix. It's hard to make people see the value of QA testing, but if you can get good at it you'll be able to get your team behind your processes, I've used this technique to get buy in for QA automation, Localization improvements, increased QA headcounts, improved tools etc. Also if you're not already a test lead you should be pushing for a promotion, I can't count the number of time's I've seen testers get thrown in the deep end and given lead responsibilities without getting recognized, it leads to burnout really fast.
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Jul 7, 2021 04:48
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DancingMachine posted:As a software engineer, working in games you will typically make less than you would in random finance or tech industry job. But 50% is huge gap. I realize we are just throwing out numbers without data but multiple folks have said "half" or "50%". I think that's a bad thing to normalize or accept. There is no good reason people should take that much less just to work in games. Especially considering the skill/talent bar are higher, not lower. we should avoid normalizing reality
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Jul 7, 2021 17:53
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ok sure
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Jul 7, 2021 17:58
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Bucnasti posted:Not all outsource QA teams are bad, I've worked with a great one and was briefly on a very capable one (along with several mediocre and outright bad ones), but its really a case of you get what you pay for and few studios want to pay more than they have to for QA testers even if higher quality would be cheaper in the long run. Yeah I've worked with some good outsourced companies too. For your other points, the thing is I think they'd say yes to all of that, they do seem to understand the value of QA in concept it's just actually following through with it and adjusting their workflows doesn't seem to be in the ballpark for them. Bucnasti posted:Also if you're not already a test lead you should be pushing for a promotion, I can't count the number of time's I've seen testers get thrown in the deep end and given lead responsibilities without getting recognized, it leads to burnout really fast. I am a test lead yeah and the pay definitely reflects what I'm being asked to do or at least feels like it does. I'm just overwhelmed a bit regardless. Thanks for the advice as well though.
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Jul 7, 2021 21:26
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Have we got any UE gameplay programmers around? We've got a spot we'd like to fill pretty quick, ideally with GAS experience but at least the willingness to learn it. We're a remote studio but I think UK-based or at least a nearby time zone is preferred.
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Jul 8, 2021 13:58
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thebardyspoon posted:Yeah I've worked with some good outsourced companies too. If that's the case, like Canine Blues Arooo said a SLA or something SLA-like is where you should be heading. When I was in this type of situation I built a system around gates with check-offs for each discipline at each gate, everyone was involved so they all got on board pretty easily and held eachother accountable. Speaking of game QA My company is looking for at least one more Deployment Project Manager, it's a mix of QA Management, Localization PM and release management for a single mobile game project. Ideal candidates would have strong PM skills and a lot of knowledge in one of the three areas (although QA Management is probably most desirable for the team involved). Remote work is possible, but they really want somebody who can be in person in LA at least part time.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:47
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Hey folks, I'm looking for an Associate Technical Director in Leamington Spa - I'm still writing up the job spec but if this floats anybody's boat and you have Lead-level experience please get in touch. Progression to TD over time is expected and encouraged. https://www.lab42.games/games has some stuff we've worked on (but not everything) - the coolest stuff is happening now, though, and I can't talk about it yet (unless you sign an NDA first!) Edit: our site needs updating, we now have over 50 people - hence the need for an ATD. Akuma fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 09:56
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Akuma posted:Hey folks, I'm looking for an Associate Technical Director in Leamington Spa - I'm still writing up the job spec but if this floats anybody's boat and you have Lead-level experience please get in touch. Progression to TD over time is expected and encouraged. Is that a new term? I hadn't heard of it before seeing someone at Blizzard promoted to it. In my experience TD used to be the Lead of Leads, or Technical owner for a large project. An Associate Lead of Leads sounds weird to me. (Then again, I accepted a position once called Senior Lead Engineer but just translated it in my head as Technical Director, until going to HR and getting it changed to Engineering Manager.) What's the scope where that becomes useful?
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Jul 16, 2021 16:57
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Hughlander posted:Is that a new term? I hadn't heard of it before seeing someone at Blizzard promoted to it. In my experience TD used to be the Lead of Leads, or Technical owner for a large project. An Associate Lead of Leads sounds weird to me. (Then again, I accepted a position once called Senior Lead Engineer but just translated it in my head as Technical Director, until going to HR and getting it changed to Engineering Manager.) What's the scope where that becomes useful? It can mean a couple of different things, depending. It can be an explicit indication of succession planning (e.g. we know that <current Technical Director> will be doing <other job> six months from now but we want to make sure the wheels are turning smoothly before <current Technical Director> moves on). It can also simply be a reflection of team size: both <insert Technical Director> and <insert ATD> are empowered to make technical director decisions and there's redundancy so it's simpler to continue working on something and you're not trying to slice one person 20 ways when collaborating with other teams or groups inside the company. In general it's been pretty successful so I wouldn't be surprised to see it more.
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Jul 16, 2021 18:58
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wodin posted:It can also simply be a reflection of team size: both <insert Technical Director> and <insert ATD> are empowered to make technical director decisions and there's redundancy so it's simpler to continue working on something and you're not trying to slice one person 20 ways when collaborating with other teams or groups inside the company. In general it's been pretty successful so I wouldn't be surprised to see it more. We typically work on 4 or 5 projects at once so there's a lot going on every day. Side note it's loving weird that I used to follow this thread before I got my first job in the industry and was waiting patiently until I could say "well I guess I'm in games" and now I'm trying to recruit future TDs. I love these threads and I appreciate all of you who post within 'em, even if I don't post much it's been great to learn from everybody. Akuma fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 20:47
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At some companies "Associate" and "Senior" are used to give more granularity to the promotion ladder. You start as an Associate <Job Title>, then move on to just <Job Title> and finally to a Senior <Job Title>. As I recall back in the day Microsoft did this, my buddy got promoted from Senior Test Analyst to Associate Test Engineer, while I was just a Test Engineer.
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Jul 17, 2021 05:05
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In our organisation its most commonly used for producers, for some reason, so while we have Junior Programmers we have Associate Producers at the same level. Never really thought about that before.
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Jul 17, 2021 09:48
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What's the best resource for studying up on the 3d maths shibboleths?
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Aug 11, 2021 01:00
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leper khan posted:What's the best resource for studying up on the 3d maths shibboleths? https://gamemath.com/book/intro.html I used this book to prep for some interviews and it was perfect.
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Aug 11, 2021 01:32
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I glanced at the MachineGames (devs of the newer Wolfenstein games) website earlier and they have a bunch of programming and 3d art jobs posted: https://www.machinegames.com/careers.php?lang=en The exciting part is that they are in Sweden and they support relocation and work visa applications 
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Sep 18, 2021 02:24
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Hell yeah, get it.
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Sep 18, 2021 04:25
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My studio, Lab42, won a Best Place to Work award from gamesindustry.biz the other day, for the second year running. We're a relatively small (55ish people, started with 4 in 2016) studio in Leamington Spa in the UK that does ports, co-dev and our own stuff. We have vacancies open for multiple disciplines at the minute: https://www.lab42.games/careers Feel free to DM me with questions  Full disclosure: we're a Sumo Digital studio, and Sumo Group is in the middle of being completely bought by Tencent. Sumo has been an amazing parent company to us and we've been assured things can only change for the better, but, people should know.
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Sep 18, 2021 17:32
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Not sure if we have a new thread or not, but we're hiring like crazy at Bethesda, and if you're trying to get into dev QA or production at the AAA level now's the best time you'll ever have to shoot your shot. I don't know a ton about the QA positions, but for production we're hiring at all levels from AP to Senior, for technical and non-technical roles. Also we're looking for HR and recruiters, (especially in Austin and Rockville). Any position you see open on https://jobs.zenimax.com/ should be valid. Disclosure: at least one each of the AP and QA positions will be on my team, so if you're interested in monetization systems design, I'll be the one vetting you Since a lot of people asked when I posted this on other social media -- the one area we're pretty full up on is product manager/PO type roles. However, if that's your background but you have project management experience as well, there's several teams with openings who would find that valuable. WFH/Remote status: Full remote is available for some positions, and you absolutely should not let that stop you from applying. If you see something you're interested in, shoot me a PM with your resume, and a cover letter is strongly encouraged if we don't already know each other.
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Oct 14, 2021 07:22
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I have a bit over 6 years of experience as a software developer using InterSystems Cache/IRIS (no one ever knows what this). I'm thinking of trying to make a jump to games because that was basically the reason I first went into a CS degree a decade ago, and also because the future of my current employer is a bit uncertain at the moment due to management problems. I'm pretty sure no game developers use IRIS (it might be useful on the back end for an mmo or something lmao) but I have plenty of programming experience that can probably be applied to any language with a little time to learn new syntax and stuff. My qualifications are basically "has done lots of software dev," and "plays and thinks about video games a lot." Is it enough to have general programming experience and just start applying or is there other stuff I should learn to add to my resume first? I haven't actively tried to get a new job since I got this one so I have no idea where to start or what employers are looking for.
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Oct 27, 2021 17:44
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My company needs multiple Deployment Project Managers. The role is a combination of QA Management, Localization Project Management and Release Management. An ideal candidate would have experience in all three areas but those are rare unicorns so we typically look for one or two area of expertise and train the others. QA being the preferred are of experience. Remote work is available on a team by team basis (at least one team is full remote) but being in/near LA or Barcelona would be a big plus for some teams. Scopely's a pretty solid place to work, pay is good, benefits are pretty standard for tech companies, culture has been a bit Edgy-Hollywood-Tech-Bro'y but they're trying to move away from that as they move into proper Big Company status. If you're interested or have questions drop me a PM.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:00
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Bakalakadaka posted:I have a bit over 6 years of experience as a software developer using InterSystems Cache/IRIS (no one ever knows what this). I'm thinking of trying to make a jump to games because that was basically the reason I first went into a CS degree a decade ago, and also because the future of my current employer is a bit uncertain at the moment due to management problems. Never heard of IRIS, but from a quick read about it, it does seem the most natural transition would be to something like a multiplayer backend type thing, or maybe platform/infrastructure work. Lots of clouds and databases in that sort of thing. You might have some luck applying to that sort of thing as is, but it’s not really my area, so can’t say for certain. If you’re wanting to do something more gameplay oriented, you’ll probably need to pick up some more game-specific skills. You can pick up a lot of the fundamentals picking up an engine like Unity and just trying to make stuff and going through tutorials. Most gameplay jobs will also require familiarity with C++, though for Unity specifically, C# might be all they care about.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:04
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Bucnasti posted:My company needs multiple Deployment Project Managers. Unrelated, but it's been pretty wild watching a huge chunk of MZ Liveops just reform in Scopely (largely as LiveOps!)
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Oct 27, 2021 23:25
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Studio posted:Unrelated, but it's been pretty wild watching a huge chunk of MZ Liveops just reform in Scopely (largely as LiveOps!) I've noticed that happen for other liveOps teams. One guy comes over and then they bring in a bunch of others from the same source, probably because LiveOps is a relatively new discipline so the talent pool isn't huge and dispersed like other disciplines.
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Oct 27, 2021 23:33
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Bucnasti posted:I've noticed that happen for other liveOps teams. One guy comes over and then they bring in a bunch of others from the same source, probably because LiveOps is a relatively new discipline so the talent pool isn't huge and dispersed like other disciplines. I know a bunch of people at scopely from when they had lower titles at another place. All of games is like that, but the sub-parts of games are even more like that.
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Oct 27, 2021 23:48
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Bucnasti posted:I've noticed that happen for other liveOps teams. One guy comes over and then they bring in a bunch of others from the same source, probably because LiveOps is a relatively new discipline so the talent pool isn't huge and dispersed like other disciplines. MZ's case probably made it easier to pull from as well, since the company had a pretty substantial amount of layoffs, drain from the layoffs, and restructuring as strategies changed.
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Oct 27, 2021 23:52
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I had one of the worst interviews I’ve ever had at scopely. TD laughed at my comp number - even though I made it clear I was willing to negotiate. Never got so much as a “thanks but no thanks” email. Jokes on them, I’m making more now anyway! Thanks for listening to my story, haha.
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Oct 28, 2021 00:09
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superh posted:I had one of the worst interviews I’ve ever had at scopely. TD laughed at my comp number - even though I made it clear I was willing to negotiate. Never got so much as a “thanks but no thanks” email. Jokes on them, I’m making more now anyway! Did they at least offer you a spear gun and some bacon wrapped cash?
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Oct 28, 2021 00:11
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Does anyone work at Discord? Are they remote friendly?
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Oct 28, 2021 04:20
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Revitalized posted:Does anyone work at Discord? Are they remote friendly? The biggest problem working there is you can't change your handle, so you show up in work calls as XsackBlasterX420 all the time
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Oct 28, 2021 04:27
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Bakalakadaka posted:I have a bit over 6 years of experience as a software developer using InterSystems Cache/IRIS (no one ever knows what this). I'm thinking of trying to make a jump to games because that was basically the reason I first went into a CS degree a decade ago, and also because the future of my current employer is a bit uncertain at the moment due to management problems. The more senior the position the more this applies. I've had an opening for a Principal Programmer for months, the listing is very clear that you need evidence of games experience, but still all I get are applicants from "full stack engineers" with zero evidence of even thinking about games programming and it's very frustrating. I have helped people move over in situations similar to yours - they intended to get into games but didn't initially for various reasons - and they've succeeded to varying degrees that are almost always related to how much games portfolio work they'd done before applying.
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Oct 30, 2021 10:25
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Akuma posted:When I look at CVs and they have zero evidence that the candidate has done anything games related - either professionally or in an amateur fashion - it's almost always a straight no with a note to the effect that we'd need to see some evidence that you've done something with games, of really any scale. Thanks, this feedback helps me a lot! I'm not quite to the point of looking and applying yet; I still have a lot of resume updating and stuff to do and will be staying where I am for the next 2 months minimum. The only game stuff I've really done is very minor modding, so it sounds like now's a good time for me to put some real effort into some mods or a small project.
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Oct 30, 2021 21:15
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So since it's hiring season, I'll go ahead and post my portfolio site for review: https://nateboyd.zone/ One of my biggest problems that I'm looking to solve is lack of content! I've cut down my itch.io page to just a few game jam games that leave a decent enough impression, but it's still a pretty weak point of mine. The plan is to build out a larger year long game that I can (hopefully) get some money & experience out of, but in the mean time I'd still like to snag a low/mid tier game developer position. I'm working in enterprise software right now, but I would definitely take the pay cut to work on something that's a bit more career building and a bit less soul-sucking. I'd really appreciate any feedback... Or a job. I'll take a job if you have any one of those lying around.
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Nov 4, 2021 00:39
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NeekBerm posted:So since it's hiring season, I'll go ahead and post my portfolio site for review: https://nateboyd.zone/ ▪ Skills: Vector Math, System Design, 2D/3D Level Design, Documentation, QA, You lead with your skills/buzzword section and it's all over the place. I have no idea what type of job you want or are trying to get. You should probably just remove QA. Every single skill listed has been performed by a different role at all of the orgs I've been in.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:12
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Yeah, honestly I'm not thrilled about the Skills section in general. Having the section header be Skills and the bullet item also be Skills really doesn't read well, not to mention that it did just become a dumping ground of things I thought HR people might like. The goal is for a Game Scripter/programmer/developer role along the lines of this https://careers-zenimax.icims.com/jobs/1284/gameplay-programmer/job I changed the skills section to this: "Focus: Gameplay and Scenario scripting, Vector Math, Object Oriented programming, and writing Performant and Modular code", which hopefully reads a bit better.
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Nov 4, 2021 02:59
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So since most people would be seeing your resume because you're applying to a job, I don't think you need things like the "Willing to relocate" or LinkedIn line. If you're applying to a job relocation is expected (or not, with remote jobs popping up), and your contact info is already on top of your resume. Probably want to swap the Math and Courses section, since if you're an Engineer I really care more about the CS than the math focus. Someone can chime in if the math or even course description is necessary. You probably want to give more details about what you're doing codewise in your job with your first point. Like you put down a bunch of languages, but what did you do with them is a better question to answer, and it's not answered in the first bullet point. That's bad! Real talk, I would rewrite this in a much simpler and concise format. You've written a lot but it's about.... everything, and resumes should really get to the point imo.
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Nov 4, 2021 03:26
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Studio posted:So since most people would be seeing your resume because you're applying to a job, I don't think you need things like the "Willing to relocate" or LinkedIn line. If you're applying to a job relocation is expected (or not, with remote jobs popping up), and your contact info is already on top of your resume. Yup, you're totally right and it was about time I rewrote my resume anyway. - I removed my old IT Specialist job because really, who cares that I was a computer janitor? I also added my new brand new job, which is probably important. - I removed the skills section entirely. This may be a bad move, but I took your advice and folded them into my resume and bolded the keywords. - I added a Summary and a Projects section to give some more actual work examples. I also moved the Game Projects section up. - I added section icons, for fun and profit The hope here is that it's more focused on game dev and generally reads better. Before: https://storage.googleapis.com/nate-zone/NathanialBoydResumeV1.pdf After: https://storage.googleapis.com/nate-zone/NathanialBoydResumeV3.pdf
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Nov 5, 2021 04:55
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Where do people post game jobs these days? Gamasutra used to be it, but I don't see that any longer. Context is I think we're only advertising on linkedin and Indeed and are getting people with no game experience for senior roles.
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Dec 9, 2021 20:08
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Gamesindustry.biz used to be half decent but not sure what it's like now
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Dec 9, 2021 21:10
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