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If it makes anyone feel better, I gave away all my cards years ago and arena turning sour for me is encouraging me to explore what I really originally liked about the game in it's social aspects. If I can get people to play my cube with me I definitely want to build one with lots of Un- cards because Unhinged got me back into the game for a bit and it ended up being a blast to play some of those cards with my friends as we learned to adapt around them, and of course tons of them could never work digitally.
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Dec 9, 2021 21:21
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it would be really great if someone copy-pasted MTG's game engine into a new game with new IP owned by a different company
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Dec 9, 2021 21:29
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I pay one CRIMSON marna and cast Lightning Bort for three heart points of damage!
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Dec 9, 2021 21:52
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I am still irrationally upset about Alchemy loving up Historic
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Dec 9, 2021 21:53
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ALLAN LASSUS posted:I am still irrationally upset about Alchemy loving up Historic
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Dec 9, 2021 22:04
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I am very rationally upset about Alchemy loving up Historic.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:09
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Leperflesh posted:It's been pointed out to me today by a poster that maybe we haven't been enforcing these new thread rules. I haven't been keeping up with this thread on a daily basis lately, potatocubed doesn't either, so perhaps we've been negligent. However, based on skimming a few pages about the current Alchemy thing, I'm not sure if I could directly apply these as-written anyway. Altering the base assumptions of how Historic works isn't exactly comparable to the secret lair stuff, and the complains don't seem to be "Wizards is doomed/Magic is doomed" so much as "I hate this", which is explicitly permitted by these rules as a topic. Well technically they are not printing the cards everyone is complaining about.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:16
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Its pretty telling that nobody anywhere, ever, has ever stuck up for alchemy. not even as a lovely gimmick. this is objectively bad for anyone that plays on Arena
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Dec 9, 2021 22:23
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A Moose posted:Its pretty telling that nobody anywhere, ever, has ever stuck up for alchemy. not even as a lovely gimmick. this is objectively bad for anyone that plays on Arena Streamers and other content creators are apparently into it. Crokeyz or whatever their name is is particularly high on it.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:31
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Dracula Factory posted:If it makes anyone feel better, I gave away all my cards years ago and arena turning sour for me is encouraging me to explore what I really originally liked about the game in it's social aspects. If I can get people to play my cube with me I definitely want to build one with lots of Un- cards because Unhinged got me back into the game for a bit and it ended up being a blast to play some of those cards with my friends as we learned to adapt around them, and of course tons of them could never work digitally. I sold most of my cards and would like to do this, but I'm having a tough time exploring the social aspect of much of anything. I'd play Commander or Cube, but I don't want to sit around a table with strangers anymore. That's the ideal though, just buying singles and ignoring whatever Hasbro is trying to do with the game.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:34
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A Moose posted:Its pretty telling that nobody anywhere, ever, has ever stuck up for alchemy. not even as a lovely gimmick. this is objectively bad for anyone that plays on Arena I've seen more than a few, but most of them either don't realize that Alchemy replaces Historic versions, or they're fully in denial about the wider state of the game.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:34
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A Moose posted:Its pretty telling that nobody anywhere, ever, has ever stuck up for alchemy. not even as a lovely gimmick. this is objectively bad for anyone that plays on Arena nah people absolutely like some parts of it, even in this thread. a lot of people even think it's a good idea + are just down on its potential effects on historic if the rebalances get bigger you're just not going to see a lot of it b/c this thread generally disliked the concept of arena from the start and only got more negative of it as time went on
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Dec 9, 2021 22:36
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Chakan posted:Takklemaggot is a fun and interesting card where if you explain the flavor first, most every player will understand what’s going on. Similar to Chains, once you get the intent it’s not hard to understand the mechanical concept. But Magic is a game where “dies” and “leaves the battlefield” are not the same thing, and when you’re that granular then players are going to require the oracle text on hand and for you to explain it to them step-by-step. Way back in '95, I was wasting my life at my LGS, when a nerdy kid about 14 or 15 years old came in. I'm talking mega nerdy, like imagine if Steve Urkel and Wesley Crusher had a baby. No, actually don't imagine that. Ewwww. Anyway, this kid had somehow got it into his head that every single Legends card was an ultra-valuable collector's item. He went up to the counter and in the whiniest voice imaginable said "I have a Taaaaaalkemaggot! Who wants to make me an offer on my Taaaaklemaggot!" Everyone had a good laugh, the store owner offered him a dollar or two, and he left almost crying. From then on, Takklemaggot became a meme; whenever someone pulled a chase rare, someone would say "I'll give you a Takklemaggot for it!" I have no idea why I remember worthless poo poo like this from 25 years ago but can't remember why I came into the room just now. Someone help me.
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Dec 9, 2021 22:36
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Gynovore posted:Way back in '95, I was wasting my life at my LGS, when a nerdy kid about 14 or 15 years old came in. I'm talking mega nerdy, like imagine if Steve Urkel and Wesley Crusher had a baby. No, actually don't imagine that. Ewwww. Anyway, this kid had somehow got it into his head that every single Legends card was an ultra-valuable collector's item. He went up to the counter and in the whiniest voice imaginable said "I have a Taaaaaalkemaggot! Who wants to make me an offer on my Taaaaklemaggot!" Everyone had a good laugh, the store owner offered him a dollar or two, and he left almost crying. From then on, Takklemaggot became a meme; whenever someone pulled a chase rare, someone would say "I'll give you a Takklemaggot for it!" you have adhd
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Dec 9, 2021 22:40
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I think the fundamental idea of alchemy, power level errata for digital Standard, is a good one. The implementation has issues though
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Dec 9, 2021 22:57
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In terms of material changes to Historic personally I've only had two decks hit by the change. GW CoCo with Luminarch Aspirant you'll put 4 in your deck you just don't get the value until next combat round. As for Esika's Chariot it's kind of a sidegrade? Yeah you lose bodies on the field but it's easier to crew if you start eating sorcery based removal or block with the cats. Slippery slope arguments and whatnot but they haven't nerfed like the truly good journeyman cards like PVDDR or Skyclave Apparition so it doesn't really hit Historic that hard yet.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:27
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kalel posted:it would be really great if someone copy-pasted MTG's game engine into a new game with new IP owned by a different company They did, it was called Hex.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:28
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C-Euro posted:Streamers and other content creators are apparently into it. Crokeyz or whatever their name is is particularly high on it. Crokeyz being in support of it is another strike against alchemy imo
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Dec 9, 2021 23:30
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Streamers are for Alchemy because it means that the meta changes rapidly so they won't get burned out playing the exact same deck for 3 months and they can also have new Deck Tech videos to make every time there is a rebalance.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:34
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I mean if you're literally playing magic for 8 hours a day every single day then you probably do want the format that Wizards is changing up frequently, instead of the format that sucks right now and that Wizards has apparently decided to abdicate any attempt at balancing because hey they can just balance Alchemy instead. Alchemy existing in the first place is a big clue that Standard is not getting any better any time soon.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:35
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flatluigi posted:nah people absolutely like some parts of it, even in this thread. a lot of people even think it's a good idea + are just down on its potential effects on historic if the rebalances get bigger I think Arena is pretty drat good, if imperfect, but the way Alchemy has rolled out gives me serious hesitation about putting any more money into it and I've bought every mastery pass up (and the odd gem pack here and there) until now except for the D&D set. I pretty much only draft and play Historic because that's the format where my investment or time spent learning a deck feels like it has the most payoff (because I'm bad at this game) and the power level feels a bit more fun without being too stale or skewed in any one play style and deck type. Alchemy as it currently exists disrupts a perfectly healthy and diverse format for no good reason, it devalues the incentive of having an eternal format where even if you're a FtP user you can build something like mono red or Gruul that will basically always be viable, and it clearly is being used to try and wring more money out of players while we wait for the "real" eternal format to get set up. Which fine, can't knock profit motive. Hopefully they will actually get Pioneer up and running in the next year or so. But the whole thing feels contrived to unnecessarily churn the play environment in a way that doesn't actually solve bigger existential problems related to card design, power level, format balance, etc. I've also been an advocate of WotC using the digital environment to push the envelope a bit in the design space, which feels a bit monkey's paw-ish now given that they have done so in the laziest ways possible in addition to recycling cards that were weeded out in a traditional design process. I don't think this dooms the game, it just signals some poor decision making. If they made separate queues for Historic and Alchemy Historic that would solve like 90% of the problem but if they don't even care enough to do that it kind of bodes ill. Seems like this has gotten as much pushback as the original Historic = 2 wildcards thing so IDK what else it would take for them to course correct. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 23:44
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C-Euro posted:Streamers and other content creators are apparently into it. Crokeyz or whatever their name is is particularly high on it. Streamers need fresh content and he only plays arena. Of course he loves alchemy. Hoogland has been spamming twitter about it since its announcement too. Their goals and reasons for playing arena might greatly differ from the average person.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:48
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My ideal Historic would just be non Alchemized Standard cards but with the new Alchemy cards. Which I believe makes me an orphan in this war.
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Dec 9, 2021 23:56
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the only thing that will kill magic is people not playing it anymore, and from what I understand it's pulling in more money now than ever. We can go on and on about how alchemy sucks and these online-only cards are loving up historic (because it's a radical and frankly unfun way to go about things), but no amount of change over almost 30 years has killed magic, despite that many years of doomsaying.
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Dec 10, 2021 00:57
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A Moose posted:Its pretty telling that nobody anywhere, ever, has ever stuck up for alchemy. not even as a lovely gimmick. this is objectively bad for anyone that plays on Arena I play almost exclusively Limited, and my plan was to use the rares and packs I get to make whatever the most fun Standard deck was at the time. That was two years ago, and now I'm sitting on hundreds of wildcards because Standard has been dogshit basically since Arena launched. I get that the impact to historic is bad but since I don't play it I largely don't care. The economy stuff is obviously bad, but again I'm not spending my wildcards as it is. If this can lead to the creation of an actually fun format then I'm all for it, just hoping the whining makes them offer some kind of correction to the economy.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:06
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Framboise posted:the only thing that will kill magic is people not playing it anymore, and from what I understand it's pulling in more money now than ever. They can still make the game less good with bad decisions. Like how the companions ruined all formats there for a bit.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:24
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Framboise posted:the only thing that will kill magic is people not playing it anymore, and from what I understand it's pulling in more money now than ever. Congratulations to Magic for being an unkillable game because it has yet to be killed up to this point.
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Dec 10, 2021 01:44
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Lone Goat posted:Congratulations to Magic for being an unkillable game because it has yet to be killed up to this point. I mean if that's what your reading comprehension was able to squeeze out of what I said, more power to you?
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Dec 10, 2021 01:55
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*looks at a bunch of posts about people deciding not to play any more because all the formats they like are now unfun due to this latest cash grab* "The only thing that will kill Magic is if people stop playing it and well folks, I just don't think that's happening" Enjoy getting all your new commander cards via secret lair I guess.
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Dec 10, 2021 02:27
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Jabor posted:*looks at a bunch of posts about people deciding not to play any more because all the formats they like are now unfun due to this latest cash grab* Look it's just showing the power of Alchemy outside of mtga. Turning a vapid nothing-post into snark.
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Dec 10, 2021 02:34
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kalel posted:it would be really great if someone copy-pasted MTG's game engine into a new game with new IP owned by a different company Sit around the table and allow the olds to tell the tale of a game called Ultimate Combat. (Nobody ever actually played that I think) Also, Redemption. (I knew a kid who got that because his mom was scared of the devil, I guess it didn't actually have casting costs. I still have the whore of Babylon card I took from him) Also probably a dozen others, poo poo was real egregious in the mid-90s.
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Dec 10, 2021 04:12
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Sickening posted:Streamers need fresh content and he only plays arena. Of course he loves alchemy. Hoogland has been spamming twitter about it since its announcement too. Their goals and reasons for playing arena might greatly differ from the average person. These are dark days if hoogland is now shilling for wotc
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Dec 10, 2021 04:54
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I basically stopped playing magic in person when the pandemic started and gave up on Arena like a year ago and I'm now at the point where I still follow a bunch of MTG people but I can no longer tell what is jokes and what is poo poo WOTC is actually doing.
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Dec 10, 2021 05:02
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Framboise posted:the only thing that will kill magic is people not playing it anymore, and from what I understand it's pulling in more money now than ever. This is a factually correct statement. Here's an excerpt from the latest Hasbro earnings report: 
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Dec 10, 2021 07:18
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I guess I'm not understanding what's so bad about alchemy. I get that the rebalanced cards are in historic but... why is that bad? Historic was already getting the digital format treatment. There were already a bunch of hearthstone-esque cards. Is it just the bigger influx of them that people are frustrated with? Or what
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Dec 10, 2021 07:27
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sit on my Facebook posted:I guess I'm not understanding what's so bad about alchemy. I get that the rebalanced cards are in historic but... why is that bad? Historic was already getting the digital format treatment. There were already a bunch of hearthstone-esque cards. Is it just the bigger influx of them that people are frustrated with? Or what Broadly, speaking it sounds like "Historic is the high power format so when you rebalance a card too strong for standard the result is often a card too weak for historic" "historic was actually in a good place re: balance and this ruins that" and "historic is the only Eternal Format on arena and now it isn't in fact eternal."
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Dec 10, 2021 07:37
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sit on my Facebook posted:I guess I'm not understanding what's so bad about alchemy. I get that the rebalanced cards are in historic but... why is that bad? Historic was already getting the digital format treatment. There were already a bunch of hearthstone-esque cards. Is it just the bigger influx of them that people are frustrated with? Or what you dont get a choice. its not "the rebalanced cards are in historic, also" its "the rebalanced cards replace the original versions, in historic"
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Dec 10, 2021 07:37
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sit on my Facebook posted:I guess I'm not understanding what's so bad about alchemy. I get that the rebalanced cards are in historic but... why is that bad? Historic was already getting the digital format treatment. There were already a bunch of hearthstone-esque cards. Is it just the bigger influx of them that people are frustrated with? Or what Historic already having digital format treatment was a huge mistake. This is doubling down on that mistake and makes it a bigger deal not lesser, imo.
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Dec 10, 2021 08:53
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Historic already having digital format treatment was a huge mistake. This is doubling down on that mistake and makes it a bigger deal not lesser, imo. It's this.
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Dec 10, 2021 08:55
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Personally I think the digital-only cards added in Historic Horizons like the merfolk that changes an Island into a Tropical Island were ok, but this new batch of what, 60 cards is mostly obnoxious Everything has a million lines of text with some dumb effect or gives choices from a The only winning move is not to play but I don't want to stop ALLAN LASSUS fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 10:09
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