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Groovelord Neato posted:There have been actual senile justices and Alito still manages to be the dumbest person to serve on the Court. In that particular case hes asking the lawyer whether or not the same reasoning applies to secular issues and is just being an rear end in a top hat about it.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:07
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Piell posted:Alito is not an idiot. He's just a complete shithead who openly doesn't care about anything but making his person political views into rulings No he's very stupid on top of that.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:09
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One of the things I've learned recently is that immensely powerful people who sound stupid are more than likely just incredibly dishonest. The stupid arguments aren't for them, they're for stupid people to smugly repeat. Even Trump isn't as stupid as he pretended to be. It was stupid as hell to suppose God would make covid disappear as an Easter miracle, but even he isn't that stupid. He was confiding to Woodward's tape recorder at the same time that he knew how bad covid was and downplayed it for political purposes. "God will fix it by Easter" is just how you get stupid people to go die for the dow
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Dec 8, 2021 19:31
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VitalSigns posted:Even Trump isn't as stupid as he pretended to be. It was stupid as hell to suppose God would make covid disappear as an Easter miracle, but even he isn't that stupid. He was confiding to Woodward's tape recorder at the same time that he knew how bad covid was and downplayed it for political purposes. "God will fix it by Easter" is just how you get stupid people to go die for the dow That proves Trump is as stupid as he acts, because literally any other politician would've jumped on it and taken charge, cruising to an easy reelection (as we saw with a lot of governors). If Trump told his cult to get the shot to defeat the virus and stick it to China they'd have been crawling over each other to do so.
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Dec 8, 2021 19:50
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Piell posted:Alito is not an idiot. He's just a complete shithead who openly doesn't care about anything but making his person political views into rulings There’s a reason why his nickname on the lower courts was “Scalito”. It was why they picked him to be a Justice, he was literally a Backup Scalia.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:27
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Evil Fluffy posted:That proves Trump is as stupid as he acts, because literally any other politician would've jumped on it and taken charge, cruising to an easy reelection (as we saw with a lot of governors). If Trump told his cult to get the shot to defeat the virus and stick it to China they'd have been crawling over each other to do so. What shot? The vaccine wasn't available in any capacity until Trump had lost the election and wasn't widely available until he was well out of office.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:33
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nine-gear crow posted:There’s a reason why his nickname on the lower courts was “Scalito”. It was why they picked him to be a Justice, he was literally a Backup Scalia. I can’t think of a single time Alito ever has
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Dec 8, 2021 22:29
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Sydin posted:What shot? The vaccine wasn't available in any capacity until Trump had lost the election and wasn't widely available until he was well out of office. The one being developed and he could've absolutely pushed harder on its development and gotten people prepped to get it the second it became available rather than getting half of the country to think it's a plot by Bill Gates to turn them into 5G hotspots or whatever dumb poo poo they believe. Leaders actually taking charge and leading during a crisis generally works out well for their political career. Especially Republicans because the Dems don't try to sabotage the country for political gain.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:44
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Please tell me that they were allowed to ask him to clarify what he means by Critical Race Theory.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:11
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Evil Fluffy posted:The one being developed and he could've absolutely pushed harder on its development I wasn't aware the POTUS had the ability to accelerate the rate at which private companies develop medicine. quote:and gotten people prepped to get it the second it became available rather than getting half of the country to think it's a plot by Bill Gates to turn them into 5G hotspots or whatever dumb poo poo they believe. I mean, the government was working on a vaccine roll-out plan prior to Biden taking office and from my understanding the Biden admin mostly followed it with a few changes/augmentations. I do agree that from a PR standpoint Trump completely failed to make the vaccine sound appealing to his base but otoh for a lot of people - particularly disengaged voters - politics has devolved to a "my team good, your team bad" mentality with zero nuance, so I'm skeptical that had Trump gone 100% in on the vax that there wouldn't be Dems going "hmm why are they pushing the vaccine so hard, aren't we going too fast? Trump could be pushing bullshit to save his re-election, maybe we should let the science play out and wait for full FDA approval." quote:Leaders actually taking charge and leading during a crisis generally works out well for their political career.  quote:the Dems don't try to sabotage the country for political gain. That is... debatable to say the least.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:45
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Sydin posted:That is... debatable to say the least. They really seem more about the personal gain.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:55
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Senor Tron posted:Please tell me that they were allowed to ask him to clarify what he means by Critical Race Theory. I have no doubt he knows exactly what real CRT is, and also hates that. But also "teaching accurate history in schools" is also probably bad in his eyes.
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Dec 8, 2021 23:56
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Was the correct answer not "Of course not, no more than I would schools that choose to teach the Holocaust."
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Dec 9, 2021 00:09
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Sydin posted:I mean, the government was working on a vaccine roll-out plan prior to Biden taking office and from my understanding the Biden admin mostly followed it with a few changes/augmentations. I do agree that from a PR standpoint Trump completely failed to make the vaccine sound appealing to his base but otoh for a lot of people - particularly disengaged voters - politics has devolved to a "my team good, your team bad" mentality with zero nuance, so I'm skeptical that had Trump gone 100% in on the vax that there wouldn't be Dems going "hmm why are they pushing the vaccine so hard, aren't we going too fast? Trump could be pushing bullshit to save his re-election, maybe we should let the science play out and wait for full FDA approval."
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Dec 9, 2021 00:13
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Jaxyon posted:I have no doubt he knows exactly what real CRT is, and also hates that. I'm sure right now he's saying that because there's a bunch of "Teachers cannot teach CRT" bills being teed up throughout the country, which will limit teachers' free speech. So, if SCOTUS should rule it's permissible to limit 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion in schools (as Maine wants), why not permissible to limit 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech in schools (as Maine presumably does not want).
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Dec 9, 2021 00:15
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-Blackadder- posted:Was the correct answer not "Of course not, no more than I would schools that choose to teach the Holocaust." The answer was “I’m not sure because I don’t know what it means to teach critical race theory.” Which may or may not be true about the actuality of CRT but is definitely true about the right wing caricature of it.
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Dec 9, 2021 01:00
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https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1469322153069887489?s=20 Remains the only good justice. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 16:46
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I feel like we are looking at a pretty significant strike on Roe next year Like it may not just be ‘states now have to decide on abortion’
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Dec 10, 2021 17:18
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I don’t know if I’m just at the bargaining stage or what, but I wonder if it will be better long-term for blue states to lose the right to abortion as well, so that all the liberal nimbys who wouldn’t care about Roe being overturned now have skin in the game vs clucking their tongues and feeling good about living in the correct place.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:23
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Outlawing abortion might be slightly too far even for this court, but I'd fully expect a "Federal Personhood act" to pass whatever chambers of Congress the GOP retakes next year, and it'll absolutely become law if we get a GOP president in 2025.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:29
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I don’t know if I’m just at the bargaining stage or what, but I wonder if it will be better long-term for blue states to lose the right to abortion as well, so that all the liberal nimbys who wouldn’t care about Roe being overturned now have skin in the game vs clucking their tongues and feeling good about living in the correct place. Isn't this just accelerationism?
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Dec 10, 2021 17:29
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I guess the thought is that if SCOTUS lets states decide on abortion, the blue ones will keep it legal and just go on about their lives and let the red states do what they want I don't know if that's true, but I don't know if there's any way to really stop that outcome either way as the GOP has a lot of state legislatures on lockdown, including in 'purple' states like Georgia.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:34
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raminasi posted:Isn't this just accelerationism? Specifically, it’s to address the democrats’ lack of concern for people who they don’t think of as their constituents. If abortion remains legal in blue states, they’ll just let the issue go beyond using it to fundraise and campaign. They might anyway, but this would at least get in the way of the kind of liberal selfishness we saw after trump’s election where people were writing op/eds with titles like “let’s stop supporting red states with our tax money.” Accelerationism is about making treatable problems worse on purpose because of an underlying belief that they will ultimately lead to a worst point before they can be fixed.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:47
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raminasi posted:Isn't this just accelerationism? this implies that you or OP has any control or impact over the decisions of the court and as such can have an ideology to push towards as they have shown for the last decade or two, they are a political actor without constituents to impress
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Dec 10, 2021 17:50
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I'm going to take the bold stance of not wanting more people to suffer so that I can gamble on a better outcome maybe taking place.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Primarying a sitting president is always a pipe dream. I don't believe it has ever worked in the history of the Republic and on the rare occasions it has even come close it has guaranteed a loss in the general election. Incumbency just has too much inertia behind it. Covok posted:No offense, but it's a pipe dream to think a sitting president will be primaried. LBJ was so disgusted at facing an actual competitive primary in 68 he went "gently caress all y'all I'm out" and dropped out of the race. That counts 
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Dec 10, 2021 19:07
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FlamingLiberal posted:I feel like we are looking at a pretty significant strike on Roe next year When people say they think abortion will be left to the states I can only assume they're in denial or just don't understand how extreme the SCOTUS is now thanks to RBG being a selfish rear end in a top hat and Dem  in general. I'll be completely stunned if Roe's overturned with a "the states can decide" decision instead of "abortion is murder therefore illegal" one.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:08
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Evil Fluffy posted:When people say they think abortion will be left to the states I can only assume they're in denial or just don't understand how extreme the SCOTUS is now thanks to RBG being a selfish rear end in a top hat and Dem Has that been briefed? Are any parties to the case asking for it?
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Dec 10, 2021 19:18
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Evil Fluffy posted:When people say they think abortion will be left to the states I can only assume they're in denial or just don't understand how extreme the SCOTUS is now thanks to RBG being a selfish rear end in a top hat and Dem I want to say "they can't actually do that" but we've already discussed them doing things they "can't" do like saying Bush v Gore only applies to that case so who knows anymore.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:23
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raminasi posted:Has that been briefed? Are any parties to the case asking for it?
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Dec 10, 2021 19:32
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raminasi posted:Has that been briefed? Are any parties to the case asking for it? How does that matter at all? SCOTUS can do whatever it wants and nobody is going to stop them.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:40
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Evil Fluffy posted:When people say they think abortion will be left to the states I can only assume they're in denial or just don't understand how extreme the SCOTUS is now thanks to RBG being a selfish rear end in a top hat and Dem I am very curious how leaving abortion to the states doesn't turn into a complete clusterfuck where anti-abortion states start trying to extradite women who have traveled or moved or medical providers in abortion-legal states who have provided abortion services or abortion-related advice to those women.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:43
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FlamingLiberal posted:No, but we can't assume that would stop them Sydin posted:How does that matter at all? SCOTUS can do whatever it wants and nobody is going to stop them. Has this court ever ruled beyond the requested relief like that before? I don’t think that the court is bound by decorum or precedent, I just don’t understand the legal mechanism people are worried about here. What’s the ruling that they’re going to issue that’s going to cause the State of New York to start arresting abortion providers when they weren’t before? How would that even read? There’s no mechanism by which they can direct law enforcement, and they can’t conjure up state-level criminal statutes out of thin air, so what are they going to do? Like, maybe they create some case law that potentially opens up wrongful-death cases against abortion providers or women who terminate (which would be really bad!) but I don’t understand the mechanics of how they’d establish a new crime nationally, unprompted.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:02
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raminasi posted:Has this court ever ruled beyond the requested relief like that before? It's called "fetal personhood", you declare that a fetus as a person and thus abortion is now murder. It's not impossible for SCOTUS to end up ruling this but it's pretty unlikely, "states can decide" is by far the likeliest outcome.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:07
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Eric Cantonese posted:I am very curious how leaving abortion to the states doesn't turn into a complete clusterfuck where anti-abortion states start trying to extradite women who have traveled or moved or medical providers in abortion-legal states who have provided abortion services or abortion-related advice to those women. It would absolutely be a clusterfuck. For example, California is currently planning legislation to become an abortion "sanctuary state" where - if you lived in a state that restricted or outlawed abortion - you can apply to have California foot the bill to fly you out to a California abortion provider and get the procedure done. If that actually became a reality I could absolutely see red states trying to counter with legislation that criminalizes traveling out of state for an abortion, or forces ISP's to block access the websites to apply within state borders, etc. It will be an ever escalating slapfight between red and blue states and an ever escalating series of suits and counter suits. Which is all why I'm inclined to believe SCOTUS will just go full "abortion is baby murder" and be done with it. Or maybe the idea is to intentionally create this ridiculous chaos by devolving the decision to the states as pretext for the GOP to "solve" it by passing fetal personhood legislation at the federal level.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:19
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raminasi posted:Has this court ever ruled beyond the requested relief like that before? Not this Court but Citizens United ruled beyond the requested relief if I remember right.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:36
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Piell posted:It's called "fetal personhood", you declare that a fetus as a person and thus abortion is now murder. It's not impossible for SCOTUS to end up ruling this but it's pretty unlikely, "states can decide" is by far the likeliest outcome. Even if they declare fetal personhood, then what? Are blue state DAs going to start arresting abortion providers for murder? What’s going to happen if they don’t?
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Dec 10, 2021 20:41
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raminasi posted:Even if they declare fetal personhood, then what? Are blue state DAs going to start arresting abortion providers for murder? What’s going to happen if they don’t? There are republican DAs in blue states who absolutely would do so.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:57
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raminasi posted:Has that been briefed? Are any parties to the case asking for it? Whether a party asks for it or not is largely irrelevant because the rest of the government at all levels treats the SCOTUS as unquestionable gods of law and order. If 5 justices want to declare that abortion is murder because life begins at conception and that birth control is just ad bad the GOP will immediately agree with it and the Democrats will give some worthless "well the courts said so. If you want to change that go out and vote" response. Then once the GOP retakes the WH in 2025 due to making it impossible for Dems to win statewide in any GOP-held state (including those they're going to take in the midterms next year) they'll double down on it with a slew of new laws to ensure that nobody can cause problems for the Holy White Jesus Empire and that all pregnancies are carried until a baby is born or the woman dies from complications.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:58
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raminasi posted:Even if they declare fetal personhood, then what? Are blue state DAs going to start arresting abortion providers for murder? What’s going to happen if they don’t? Fetal personhood declared by an unaccountable political cabal would be like the fugitive slave act on steroids. Something would have to give, either scotus or the country.
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Dec 10, 2021 21:29
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