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So what you’re saying is that Honda, Mazda, and Toyota are all consummate professionals while BMW are coked out dipshit Business Guys and GM just straight up doesn’t give a gently caress as long as it’s cheap
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Dec 10, 2021 05:38
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Lucid has way more acceptable screens and controls over Tesla to this old codger. 
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Dec 10, 2021 05:41
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Sab669 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRUvz1QPueA&t=72s This car is really cool. There are a lot of things I like about it, namely that its MO is to occupy the spacious luxury barge tier of sedans. The design is really interesting and overall I think I really like it. Maybe it's the gold color and me having grown up in California and the car having been heavily inspired by California, but I'm getting some weirdly specific Marin County Civic Center vibes from it. For the uniformed, this was Frank Lloyd Wright's last building and it's retro-futuristic as gently caress and also they filmed Gattaca there. Make all the metal brass, use more richly colored wood finishes, and add some cerulean highlights and it would be uncanny. I think it's the arch motif and the sunroof/extended windshield being reminiscent of the airiness of the upper floors with the retro atrium ceiling. My beefs with it are two things: the weird-rear end placement of parting lines and the excessive reliance on touchscreen interfaces, especially for the driver. Saukkis posted:I would accept screen for showing info, but for this exercise I think the requirement would be that you can execute every function without looking at the screen. My old Saab has an LCD screen and up/down buttons to switch between the 4 different views, but it could easily have four dedicated buttons. I was thinking a lot on this and working on a response (automotive UI is super interesting, maybe I should have done that instead of software), but I guess I can address the Lucid Air now. Anyhow, I think you'd need to divide your functions into three categories: those that the driver can execute while driving, those that the passenger can execute while the car is in motion, and those that should should not be executed unless the car is in park. The first category should not rely on any touchscreens (or touch-sensitive flat featureless surfaces masquerading as button banks). Controls should be physical and tactile and provide non-visual feedback when interacted with. The problem with touchscreens is that they are a highly visual medium and are difficult to operate if you can't look at it and are in motion on a less-than-perfect road. There's nothing to hold onto, so like if you reach to press something and hit a pothole, your finger is going somewhere else, whereas if you have a lever or knob or even button, you can maintain a hold on it or at least rapidly find it again by touch only. This is where the Lucid is super disappointing. It's still an improvement on Tesla's implementation, though. The placement of read outs and touch controls is significantly better, but it's still touchscreen and the buttons are too small in any case the road isn't perfect. That, or they have a lot of confidence in the smoothness of the ride. For the passenger functions, you can get away with touchscreens because you're not compromising the driver's focus, but goddamn they are annoying to use in a moving vehicle. Annoyance is probably compounded by lovely roads, truck suspension, and hauling around a bunch of crap. You need huge hit boxes for your controls. You can better handle most inputs with directional buttons and enter/cancel. That leaves nav input and searching the manual. You could technically not do touch input, but that'd be tedious to scroll to each letter instead of just tapping it, even if you have less than perfect accuracy. Good voice input would be helpful here too. On the Lucid, the interface flowing from one screen to another was pretty cool, but I think could be improved by actual buttons the variable controls could "inhabit" depending on what mode you were in. Not perfect because the buttons would be variable, but still better than pictures of buttons on a flat surface. Third category is like settings and poo poo, much of which my truck automatically disables when it's in motion. Touchscreen is most tolerable here because nothing's moving and it's easiest to use.
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Dec 10, 2021 06:28
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Jymmybob posted:Can't really but the gist is that I feel that it all stems from Tesla thinking building cars are just like building juiceros but there's an insane amount of institutional knowledge in automotive. Tesla thinks they can just ignore it and you end up with hilariously embarrassing things like their paint and build quality. There's a lot of fun things on forums or news like the wood braces and strapping but it's really hard to stress just how completely insane that actually is coming from an OEM. I've also heard more than a few credible stories that are pretty hairy but it's just too risky to talk about, especially with how Tesla is. From what's come out publicly at least, its clear Tesla just outright decided they had nothing to learn from ~100 years of existing manufacturing knowledge and just loving sent it. From the interviews I've seen with other startups, certainly they're taking a long hard look and reconsidering what the manufacturing process should look like to suit their vehicle, but not being arrogant enough to ignore history. While current assembly line tech might well be the right way to go, there are probably valid arguments for different models for different types of vehicles. Eg what works for Ford pumping out 80,000+ Lightnings a year alongside other F-series models may well not suit Lucid pumping out a much lower number of super luxury sedans on a bespoke EV platform. A real life example of that would be Koenigsegg 3D printing their turbo housings and other components. Works great for them building a dozen cars a year or whatever, doesn't remotely scale much past that, just get them manufactured at that point.
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Dec 10, 2021 07:17
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MrChips posted:In the case of Porsche at least, their brake durability testing is absolutely brutal; their vehicles need to be able to do 25 stops in a row from 80 percent of the vehicle's rated top speed to 90 km/h, with every fifth stop being in full ABS, and with the car able to maintain at least 0.8g of braking deceleration. This isn't just a test either that the 911 GT3 has to pass and that's it; every model, from the Cayenne to the Panamera to the Taycan, has to be able to pass this.
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Dec 10, 2021 07:48
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BMW not done huffing whatever it is they're huffing. https://twitter.com/BMW/status/1469234750594424836
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Dec 10, 2021 10:57
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BuckyDoneGun posted:BMW not done huffing whatever it is they're huffing. My irrational utter hatred of anything modern BMW becoming easier to justify
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Dec 10, 2021 11:42
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Lol my sister worked at the Reno Giga factory for a while and you guys have no idea how half assed those cars and battery packs are slapped together.
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Dec 10, 2021 12:23
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Wheeee posted:So what you’re saying is that Honda, Mazda, and Toyota are all consummate professionals while BMW are coked out dipshit Business Guys and GM just straight up doesn’t give a gently caress as long as it’s cheap Toyota is the gold standard for good reason but BMW is also really good but with some of the discipline replaced by flexibility. I'm not talking design though  Tesla's the only OEM who was genuinely awful to deal with but also the giant Tier 1 suppliers are usually stupid assholes who give automotive a bad rap.
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Dec 10, 2021 12:41
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Queen Victorian posted:
I mentioned this years ago in one of these threads and I've not been in a whole stack of cars lately but one issue I had with them in cars was nobody was using the frame of the screen to locate controls. If you HAVE TO have touchscreens in your poo poo, like you mentioned you have very little way of knowing where your finger is prodding on a touchscreen without looking for the entirety of your interaction. I never saw a touchscreen UI take advantage of the physical dimensions of the screen nor the fact that most have some sort of bezel. The bezel is a physical thing, you can find the corners with your fingers quite easily and if your UI/UX team has any interest in making things easier for people they'd maybe try designing the interface in a way that allows sightless use in a vehicle that has only touch controls. There also doesn't seem to be any context sensitive design going on, you mentioned controls that you should only be able to use in certain situations. Once your wheels start rolling the UI should automatically change to an incredibly simplified version with big chunky buttons on any touch surfaces. My dad owns a Mazda CX30 and that actively locks you out of using the touch screen once the car is moving, this forces you to use the little click wheel interface instead. But in a car where all your controls are touchscreen, giving someone full access to a huge screen with a billion controls seems a bit stupid. Menu systems are often several layers deep for some features that should probably be a lot less difficult to get to. I think cars becoming more and more tech heavy, all-singing, all-dancing has effectively screwed design. Interfaces now need to do EVERYTHING and it all needs to go through a dozen or more focus group meetings where someone will demand that <x> item is higher up than it needs to be and so it all turns into a cluttered mess. As mentioned above it has been a while since I've been in a touchscreen car but my experiences with them have made me recoil in horror. I'm wondering which manufacturer is going to release a new car with everything controls-wise as analogue switches and buttons and whether they'll charge extra for the 'experience' of it all.
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Dec 10, 2021 14:09
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I like knobs and dials
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Dec 10, 2021 15:50
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BuckyDoneGun posted:BMW not done huffing whatever it is they're huffing. You can’t fool me. That’s a 90s Pontiac minivan concept.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:19
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I'm in SF on vacation and I saw a Lucid on the highway. I was like "what the gently caress is that" until I saw the badge
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Dec 10, 2021 18:21
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instead of supporting unreformed Nazis or Elon with your car purchase, you can now support the House of Saud christ what a world we live in
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Dec 10, 2021 18:22
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KillHour posted:I'm in SF on vacation and I saw a Lucid on the highway. I was like "what the gently caress is that" until I saw the badge Was it fully sick?
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Dec 10, 2021 18:22
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:instead of supporting unreformed Nazis or Elon with your car purchase, you can now support the House of Saud Well, car purchases have been supporting the Saudi royals since WW2, the support is just a little more direct now instead of being proxied through oil.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:44
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I've been in most OEM's shops at different phases of construction or production, and Tesla is the only one I would never buy based on what I've seen. Their corporate attitude to seems to be "gently caress it, go faster" on respect to everything and it is always bad.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:09
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Bape Culture posted:Was it fully sick? It was at night but the headlights looked like a spaceship/super car/9 year old's fever dream
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Dec 10, 2021 19:10
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Well, car purchases have been supporting the Saudi royals since WW2, the support is just a little more direct now instead of being proxied through oil. yeah fair enough
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Dec 10, 2021 19:33
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Olympic Mathlete posted:I mentioned this years ago in one of these threads and I've not been in a whole stack of cars lately but one issue I had with them in cars was nobody was using the frame of the screen to locate controls. If you HAVE TO have touchscreens in your poo poo, like you mentioned you have very little way of knowing where your finger is prodding on a touchscreen without looking for the entirety of your interaction. I never saw a touchscreen UI take advantage of the physical dimensions of the screen nor the fact that most have some sort of bezel. The bezel is a physical thing, you can find the corners with your fingers quite easily and if your UI/UX team has any interest in making things easier for people they'd maybe try designing the interface in a way that allows sightless use in a vehicle that has only touch controls. The touchscreen in the Gen 1 Volt was like this. There was a little ledge under the screen that was very comfortable to rest your hand while a finger poked the screen. It also had nurdles on several of the capacitive touch buttons (which I consider a crime way worse than a touchscreen) to help located where your hand was without looking at it. The software didn’t really take full advantage of the hand placement, but the Home Screen buttons did.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:14
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BuckyDoneGun posted:BMW not done huffing whatever it is they're huffing.
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Dec 10, 2021 21:04
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Olympic Mathlete posted:I mentioned this years ago in one of these threads and I've not been in a whole stack of cars lately but one issue I had with them in cars was nobody was using the frame of the screen to locate controls. If you HAVE TO have touchscreens in your poo poo, like you mentioned you have very little way of knowing where your finger is prodding on a touchscreen without looking for the entirety of your interaction. This is a good idea. It doesn't solve the problem entirely, but it would be a huge improvement over a featureless piece of glass. Having distinct bezels/contours around the edge of the screen wouldn't just help you locate controls but help you know where your hand is and even help steady your hand by giving you a grippy/nested spot to press your palm onto or something so your hand doesn't get jostled out of position when you go over a bump. I think there'd still need to be an aspect of learning/memorization to use it without glancing at it, especially if the controls on the touchscreen are variable. quote:There also doesn't seem to be any context sensitive design going on, you mentioned controls that you should only be able to use in certain situations. Once your wheels start rolling the UI should automatically change to an incredibly simplified version with big chunky buttons on any touch surfaces. Yeah I hope they get better at this. I think future advancements in tech like natural language processing will help reduce the need for drivers to be tapping around on touchscreens while driving. quote:I'm wondering which manufacturer is going to release a new car with everything controls-wise as analogue switches and buttons and whether they'll charge extra for the 'experience' of it all. I'm pretty sure there will be throwback cars like this in the future, and they will absolutely charge extra. Here's the thing about touchscreens and why I believe they're rapidly taking over car UIs: they look super duper slick and lend themselves very well to sleek modern interiors, they are cheap, they allow for much more expansive and versatile GUIs (even if they are suboptimal to operate while driving), and they spare you from needing to design, prototype, test, and injection mold a bunch of additional buttons and poo poo, the lack of which would greatly streamline the assembly process. BuckyDoneGun posted:BMW not done huffing whatever it is they're huffing. I don't like it. Bet it makes a mimimimimimimi sort of sound. Actually there's some potentially cool stuff going on in the LED grille/headlights, but otherwise I hate it. Seriously, these recent concepts have been pretty... inelegant. BMWs have always seemed to have a sense of elegance about their design, Bangle and post-Bangle models included. The XM and this thing just don't and it's weird.
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Dec 11, 2021 06:20
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BuckyDoneGun posted:BMW not done huffing whatever it is they're huffing. I actually like the kidneys much better as eyes rather than a gigantic pig snout. Silver linings. E: I knew it looked familiar 
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Dec 11, 2021 19:04
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That Lincoln looks anxious.
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Dec 12, 2021 04:09
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Perfect for the middle manager who’s torn between not wanting to look like a member of the proletariat while also not wanting to lay out the cash for a German equivalent
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Dec 12, 2021 04:12
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Every time I see a Lincoln I think "oh yeah they still make those".
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Dec 12, 2021 05:37
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Russian Bear posted:Every time I see a Lincoln I think "oh yeah they still make those". missing a ?
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Dec 12, 2021 06:21
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Lincoln? More like Lincolon lol. But seriously the SUVs look pretty decent. The one that surprises me are the Buicks. I've had a Lincoln Continental in the past, the V8 was awesome but it was kind of boaty in driving.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:26
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Gatts posted:Lincoln? More like Lincolon lol. If you ignore reliability, resale value, and dealer experience, their SUVs are easily top 10 in class. Lincoln should bring out a new town car that shamelessly rips off the phantom around $100k. 7.3 liter godzilla, f-150 frame, aluminum body, suicide rear doors Make the LWB $200k and electric only.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:47
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Gatts posted:Lincoln? More like Lincolon lol. Buicks are only still around because of their popularity in China.
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Dec 12, 2021 20:46
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Powershift posted:
That’s loving genius. I love it
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Dec 12, 2021 21:28
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all Lincoln had to do was make a grand tourer out of the Mustang and i'd be driving one today
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Dec 12, 2021 22:39
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Proud Christian Mom posted:all Lincoln had to do was make a grand tourer out of the Mustang and i'd be driving one today 
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Dec 13, 2021 00:24
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Proud Christian Mom posted:all Lincoln had to do was make a grand tourer out of the Mustang and i'd be driving one today The next mustang is claimed to be on the same platform as the aviator, does that count?
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Dec 13, 2021 00:34
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Proud Christian Mom posted:all Lincoln had to do was make a grand tourer out of the Mustang and i'd be driving one today My Opa had a Mark VIII, so it's totally a grandpa car.... but for a generation that's so old it's ripe to become cool again. I think they should do this.
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Dec 13, 2021 00:44
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Proud Christian Mom posted:all Lincoln had to do was make a grand tourer out of the Mustang and i'd be driving one today What car would this look like? I am hellbent on someday getting a nice luxo Nazi mobile, think something like an M340i because that would be nearly the only performance oriented one remotely affordable. That would theoretically scratch the 'Mustang that can be taken on long trips' itch for me, though admittedly significantly less visceral and more sterile. But I kinda like that for NVH reasons. Would your grand tourer Mustang have AWD? 4 doors / seats?
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Dec 13, 2021 01:24
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I'm struggling to come up with a reason you can't road trip a Mustang, unless you need room for more than 2 people. Tons of room up front, big trunk, reasonable highway mileage.
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Dec 13, 2021 01:29
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Inner Light posted:What car would this look like? I am hellbent on someday getting a nice luxo Nazi mobile, think something like an M340i because that would be nearly the only performance oriented one remotely affordable. That would theoretically scratch the 'Mustang that can be taken on long trips' itch for me, though admittedly significantly less visceral and more sterile. But I kinda like that for NVH reasons. 
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Dec 13, 2021 01:40
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^^ I'm happy you exist Powershiftopengl128 posted:I'm struggling to come up with a reason you can't road trip a Mustang, unless you need room for more than 2 people. Tons of room up front, big trunk, reasonable highway mileage. Oh you definitely can, maybe long trips is the wrong reason to list. My main rationale is because I would need a single vehicle for everything, so I would like it to have more than 2 door / 2 usable seats for the rare occasion I need all 4 seats, I guess, or for if I have kids in the future. Plus I feel like NVH would be significantly better in an M340i vs. a Mustang GT, but I have driven exactly 0 of either of those.
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Dec 13, 2021 01:54
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My road trips have been in a '16 Mustang GT, an '18 Outback, and a '17 F-150. The mustang did just fine. Actually they all did just fine. I'd say the truck was the best simply due to the raw amount of space available for snacks, cooler, cargo and general stuff. Tailgate made a nice changing table for baby, too. But they all did fine. That doesn't look terrible. I like.
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Dec 13, 2021 02:00
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