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alnilam posted:The question of how walkable a place is is just way more complicated than whether or not there are sidewalks. As I said some of the most pleasantly walkable streets in the world have no sidewalks. Hell no, streets like this absolutely suck to walk on compared to ones with sidewalks. They’re all over the slightly older parts of Seoul and it’s just a constant mess of clamoring to get out of the way of the next car. It’s pleasant if there’s no cars coming sure but good luck with that unless it’s 3 in the morning.
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Dec 10, 2021 05:04
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Koramei posted:Hell no, streets like this absolutely suck to walk on compared to ones with sidewalks. They’re all over the slightly older parts of Seoul and it’s just a constant mess of clamoring to get out of the way of the next car. It’s pleasant if there’s no cars coming sure but good luck with that unless it’s 3 in the morning. What's the posted speed limit though? It's probably max 30 km/h on the pictured street, possibly lower & with a requirement that you have an errand on that block to have legal access (ie. no passing through).
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Dec 10, 2021 06:59
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It's actually statistically a lot safer for everybody to be really anxious and uncomfortable and stressed out on a road, although that is also a much worse experience for all parties involved. It also solves a lot of complex problems for laying out cities, but while there is an elegance and simplicity in getting people to use their human abilities to just find their way, it also fucks over anyone who is in any way disabled.
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Dec 10, 2021 08:02
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Carthag Tuek posted:What's the posted speed limit though? It's probably max 30 km/h on the pictured street, possibly lower & with a requirement that you have an errand on that block to have legal access (ie. no passing through). It's better to be on a sidewalk and deal with no cars, than to deal with cars, period, no matter the regulations, unless you are in a tiny village with no traffic which is completely irrelevant for any talk of cities.
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Dec 10, 2021 08:12
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Where do pedestrians come from in the first place?? How are pedestrians created? Are their cars being repaired? Do they have a flat tire and no spare? Did they run out of gas? Are they on the way to a dealership to buy a new car? We should really tackle the systemic issues that lead to rampant pedestrianism instead of just treating the surface symptoms with things like sidewalks.
Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 08:23
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Many inner cities in Europe are like that walkable street picture posted earlier. - Normally pedestrian only. - Cars are only allowed between 9 pm and 6 am or something, for restocking. - They tend to be economically much more successful than other places since people like going there specifically to spend a day shopping or having a drink and a bite because it's much more fun compared to driving from parking lot to parking lot or to be dodging cars all the time as a pedestrian. - These places also enjoy a higher standard of living for people living there because of the cleaner air, less traffic noise and so on. - People living there either have car access from the back of their house or they can reach it by foot, bicycle or public transit since there's a stop every couple hundred meters and a bus or tram stops there every 5 minutes. - Disabled people also like it because they can easily reach all shops with their (electric) wheel chair, or with their hand-crank bicycle. Or for blind people, they can walk there without fear of cars. It does require a little extra infra such as ridged tiles at intersections so they can feel with their stick where they are, but it works decently well. - Most people living there don't have cars at all since bicycle + transit can get them everywhere. Those who do just get a year pass for parking their car in one of the parking garages on the edge of the inner city. - The biggest problem many of these cities face is cyclists not sticking to the bike path network and ending up on the pedestrian network instead. Bollards don't stop bikes. So don't say this topic is irrelevant for big cities. It is *especially* relevant for them. Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 08:52
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Carbon dioxide posted:Bollards don't stop bikes.
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Dec 10, 2021 09:26
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Depends on how you space them. Bollard cannon.
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Dec 10, 2021 11:49
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Carbon dioxide posted:Many inner cities in Europe are like that walkable street picture posted earlier. Millions of american heads explode as they finally get it! I'm sure this is getting tedious but like: here's the inner cities I've lived in: Dallas, Paris, Toulouse, Strasbourg, Montréal, Toronto, Stuttgart, the Bronx NYC, New Orleans. In Toulouse my apartment even faced a 24/7 pedestrian street. The reality is that it's the same rear end poo poo. There is nothing you have said that would be news to americans. There's no big change in who is or isn't a racist rear end in a top hat once you enter the US. There's not grand cultural divide. There's not a ton more pressure to get a car. Montréal, Paris, and NYC were the only ones with good public transit. There's a lot of things I loving hate about living in the US, or even Canada, vs Europe (not a thing btw, and weirdly it's always rich countries getting cited as just "Europe" here, as if some computer toucher in Copenhagen knows how great it is to be poor in Sofiya compared to New York), but this brainblast "y'all don't even get how much better it is" is 100% self-flagellating americans and euros who have no knowledge of actual life in the US except maybe vacations, foreign policy, and self-flagellating americans posting on the internet. Like, why does this poster need to explain that people in the inner city often don't have cars? Do you seriously think everyone has to go about their lives in cars in NYC or Chicago? You can't even just say I'm cherrypicking cities. The NYC area alone would be the sixth-largest nation in the EU between Poland and Romania, with 26.5 million americans. Five Irelands. Ten Lithuanias. If you're going to take high quality-of-life areas alone and compare it to general USA, might as well take midtown Manhattan and compare it to the french Massif central or to rural Slovakia.
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Dec 10, 2021 16:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The NYC area alone would be the sixth-largest nation in the EU between Poland and Romania
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Dec 10, 2021 16:33
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Guavanaut posted:This would be the best solution to the Treaty of Trianon. New Jersey gets Hungary next door to them in exchange. The Treaty of Tristateanon
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Dec 10, 2021 18:21
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Millions of american heads explode as they finally get it!  Outside New York, which is basically Minsk, the cities shown are two to three times as car dependent as the most car-dependent ones in Europe.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:36
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Europe should just form one unified nation and be one of the largest countries in the world with 500+ million inhabitants. Nearly 800 million if they could get Russia to join.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:37
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I don't know, America looks pretty car-dependent here: wow europe sucks compared to africa
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Dec 10, 2021 19:43
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yikes! posted:wow europe sucks compared to africa
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Dec 10, 2021 19:44
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Sucks they just got (what looks like) the 5 most populous city of the region, I would have liked to know how Amsterdam specifically would compare.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:46
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Space Kablooey posted:Sucks they just got (what looks like) the 5 most populous city of the region, I would have liked to know how Amsterdam specifically would compare. 
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Dec 10, 2021 19:56
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Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: Outside New York, which is basically Minsk
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Dec 10, 2021 20:17
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 what have I done.No matter.  Rail vehicle coupling types. 
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Dec 10, 2021 20:27
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Millions of american heads explode as they finally get it! The point isn't so much that you don't need to have a car in a European city, but that there are more areas where it's much less necessary to use a car compared to America. I haven't been so much in America, but I've lived weeks to months in SF, NY, Baltimore, Boston, & Philadelphia and I usually walked or took public transport. Getting from A to B mostly loving sucked, all the infrastructure is threadbare... streetlights are broken, the bus is filthy. It's been good to get a preview of Denmark 2050 though. Anyway, I guess Boston comes pretty close to discouraging cars because it has that old rambling non-grid street layout that makes driving more inconvenient (also I will admit I greatly prefer it for aesthetic reasons). aannnnd post! e: welp 10 more replies. so yeah nice bait lol
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Dec 10, 2021 20:55
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:
Hook coupling best coupling (aesthetically, not technologically) e: after some Wikipedia reading it turns out i was mistaken, the kind i like best is automatic knuckle style coupling; i thought it was hook because it looks vaguely hook-like alnilam fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 21:18
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FreudianSlippers posted:Europe should just form one unified nation and be one of the largest countries in the world with 500+ million inhabitants. Nearly 800 million if they could get Russia to join. I get what you are going for, but I also know you aren't stupid and get that a country managing one capital city and five million total inhabitants is not directly comparable to a country with many large cities that outnumber the whole former country. Someone like Mette Fredriksen is more comparable to Bill de Blasio or Alexander Beglov than with Joe Biden or Vladimir Putin. Were the EU to unite as a sovereign country, the QoL stats in places like Sweden or Germany plummet as they suddenly get the rear end-end of Bulgaria factored in, and americans post pictures of belgian roads going "lol loving idiot europeans can't even build roads" even though everyone else has better roads and that isn't accurate, just like one moron in Wisconsin finding black pepper too spicy is the poster child of american cuisine.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:13
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At very least the Kalmar Union should be revived except this time socialist.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:16
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I will absolutely cosign that the danish social democrats are a center right party. You could argue they were still center left in the 80s, maybe even 90s, but they've been moving right for a long while. e: I will also cosign a socialist kalmar union, as long as its geography radical. lets get the celts & the baltics in here & become a world power Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 23:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:americans post pictures of belgian roads going "lol loving idiot europeans can't even build roads" even though everyone else has better roads and that isn't accurate
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Dec 10, 2021 23:28
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I haven't been to Belgium but friends who have tell me the streets are covered in poo poo.
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Dec 11, 2021 00:32
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3D Megadoodoo posted:I haven't been to Belgium but friends who have tell me the streets are covered in poo poo. goddamn politicians
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Dec 11, 2021 03:32
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FreudianSlippers posted:At very least the Kalmar Union should be revived except this time socialist. I've been saying this for years.
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Dec 11, 2021 04:03
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Dec 11, 2021 09:57
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This may surprise the thread but the bad state of Belgium's road infrastructure is less of a political hot button topic here than the topic of congestion (which is in part responsible for the state of said road network). And that is largely the result of political choices. Leaving aside the fact that Belgium is a major transit hub for heavy freight traffic - which is more damaging to roads than car traffic - that was toll-free for decades, byzantine taxation systems have made it cheaper for employers to offer employees a car to get to and from work instead of higher wages, so you also get more cars on the road. In addition, and this is a cultural thing, Belgians tend to be very attached to the towns they live in and are usually unwilling to move closer to work if it means an 80km car ride every day. Finally, there are simply too many exit and entry points on the highway system and there are also too many roads; this mindset is slowly changing, especially in bigger cities, but especially the right is clinging on to "automobile traffic is king!" for dear life. Local and newer roads tend to be of a very similar and decent quality as the rest in Europe, and the worst roads sit near the border with the Netherlands and France. Crossing the Belgian-Dutch border is thus really noticeable in terms of road quality, though the roads across the border with France (which has a super well-kept highway infrastructure for the rest) are just as bad if not worse. It's like literally driving through an area where the 1970s never ended. FreudianSlippers posted:At very least the Kalmar Union should be revived except this time socialist. The Karlmarx Union
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Dec 11, 2021 10:13
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Let's talk about dry cleaning next. Wtf is it. Someone find a map
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Dec 11, 2021 10:19
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The scariest thing I've ever seen in Belgian road design - I think this was common in the 90s and most of those horrible things are gone now - are three-lane bidirectional roads where the middle lane is used for left turns and for overtaking *for both directions at once*. Like you speed up to overtake and before you know it you're in a head-on collision.
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Dec 11, 2021 10:21
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Ras Het posted:Let's talk about dry cleaning next. Wtf is it. Someone find a map  Hope this helps
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Dec 11, 2021 10:25
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Scania, Holland & Belgium back to Denmark
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Dec 11, 2021 10:56
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Dec 11, 2021 11:02
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I'm so over any US map with Maine up top.
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Dec 11, 2021 13:06
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Dec 11, 2021 13:34
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Thats great, very well made.
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Dec 11, 2021 14:18
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Where the gently caress is the Yule Goat you loving racist?
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Dec 11, 2021 14:23
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Forget the yule goat, get in with the christmas log
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Dec 11, 2021 14:28
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