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1stGear posted:"Nation of Zaun" is a lot punchier from a dialogue perspective than "Free City-State of Zaun" or "Zaunite People's Republic" or whatever. Also, Zaun is an undercity of the Nation of Piltover officially, they're one city with one government and ostensibly one culture at the start, the separation has been a long thing coming as situations changed over the centuries (and Heimerdinger is called out at not doing anything to stop Zaun from falling deeper into it's own misery and mistreatment).
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Dec 8, 2021 20:29
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Hellioning posted:So you get things like saying Riot makes mostly sexy champions because Chinese fans want it, or say that only Asians are interested in KDA, or, as above, saying that Ionia is only so popular from Asian fans. I got into Riot as a whole thanks to KDA which lead me to playing Runeterra because I am bad at LoL.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:40
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also, Zaun is an undercity of the Nation of Piltover officially, they're one city with one government and ostensibly one culture at the start, the separation has been a long thing coming as situations changed over the centuries (and Heimerdinger is called out at not doing anything to stop Zaun from falling deeper into it's own misery and mistreatment). I know what they were going for but the geography felt off sometimes. Zaun is below Piltover except sometimes it's across the river?
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Dec 8, 2021 20:44
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I know what they were going for but the geography felt off sometimes. Zaun is below Piltover except sometimes it's across the river? Zaun is on the other side of the river, and built over chasms which they’ve turned into cities. Tunnels from Zaun go under the river to Piltover. Specifically the chasms happened after the founding of the city, and swallowed/sunk parts of Zaun.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:47
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Yes. The entire river you see is actually artificial and exists as a series of canal locks called the Sun Gates. Underneath the river is more Zaun. Zaun's independence movement considers itself as nationalist because Zaun was there before the Sun Gates, before the Fissures, and before Piltover. The previous names of the area were Oshra Va'Zaun and/or Kha'zhun; it was an outpost of Shuriman culture before the Rune Wars brought in refugees from all over Valoran.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:17
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1stGear posted:"Nation of Zaun" is a lot punchier from a dialogue perspective than "Free City-State of Zaun" or "Zaunite People's Republic" or whatever. "Free city of Zaun" or "Republic of Zaun" both sound perfectly fine to me. Ormi posted:Yes. The entire river you see is actually artificial and exists as a series of canal locks called the Sun Gates. Underneath the river is more Zaun. OK, in that case calling it Nation makes sense. Though you have to admit the show does nothing to hint at this backstory in any way at all. If anything I assumed Piltover was there first, because it looks more old-fashioned and I guess Zaun just gave me a migrant workers / slums vibe. I guess "nation" also makes Silco out to be more of a man of the people rather than some high-faluting politician. So I can see why they went with that name. Still no city-state in the real world is called nation of anything.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:32
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It's also a nice mirror to Vander doing the same in Act 1 and getting the same reaction "no we need to use you to control things". Vander solved it by giving up power, seems like that never occurred to Silco. There's a lot of neat mirroring between Acts 1 and 3.
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Dec 8, 2021 21:42
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Boxman posted:Yeah, "Nation" gets mis-used as a synonym for, like, a political entity a lot, including by Silco I guess. Zaun already is a nation, they're a people with their own culture and history independent from Piltover. It's political independence Silco's after. (Of course, all this is an effect of someone at Riot coming up with "Nation of Zaun," probably scribbled on the back of a napkin 12 years ago, in between paying an artist with some couch cushion change to draw someone's splash art, so now we're stuck with it). Yes I absolutely love that scene. So much good stuff about it. Silco's normally unwavering confidence is tested a lot in that scene, and Jayce completely has the upper hand. Which he wouldn't but Silco became attached to Jinx
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Dec 8, 2021 23:56
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pidan posted:"Free city of Zaun" or "Republic of Zaun" both sound perfectly fine to me. Independent Free Peoples Democratic Republic of Zaun
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Dec 9, 2021 00:28
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Most Serene Republic of Zaun Serene Doge Ziggs skin when, Riot?
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Dec 9, 2021 00:39
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Rob Filter posted:*The show is going out of its way not to directly discuss the political structure of society. It's all ambiguous coding, and its designed so that Western audiences can read the city as capitalist and Chinese audiences can read it as state socialism. That said, in either read, the fundamental political conflict in the show is class exploitation inflicted through a border. The show ended up unwilling to show the council as the brutal bastards they would need to be to maintain this system of violent exploitation, instead casting them as clueless fools who somehow established this economy by accident? And all it takes is one stern conversation for them to be like "okay, I guess we'll end this decades long system of economic exploitation which is making us rich." Yikes. The series certainly paints its political economy in broad strokes, with the details largely left to the characters’ personal/interpersonal dramas and plot machinations. In this context, the proper way to read the story is in a similarly abstract manner - that is as particular content of the bourgeois industrial state form. Piltover embodies ‘Historical Progress’, the doctrine born with industrialism’s rise that espouses mankind’s inevitable domination of the material universe. As such, the steampunk imagery works hand-in-hand to communicate a specific past’s optimism towards the horizon of its future. With the Undercity, we approach the ‘symptom’ of the bourgeois industrial state form in the unavoidable production of impoverished masses. Those impoverished masses are, as the series correctly points out in the finale, precisely the manifestation of the state’s failure (Hegel’s rabble, Marx’s proletariat, Ranciere's part of no part). It’s here that we encounter the abstract nature that seems to stretch across space/time such as references to our northern hemisphere exporting garbage/pollution to the southern hemisphere, while extracting their labor/resources from a safe distance. As well, we have the aesthetic/fashion differences between Piltover and the Undercity that come from different eras, which underscores the immiseration that spans across time. The invention of instant transportation, and therefore globalization, only ramps up the level of exploitation. Shifting gears a bit, I posit that the way Arcane’s narrative handles this ‘symptom’ makes it a reactionary work overall – that is the form in which it obscures the political by prioritizing the ‘ethical’. The narrative has a recurring disparagement of the concept of ideological commitment, where figures with it are, at best, branded naïve and not caring enough about human life. This is most visible in the dangerous and borderline sociopathic criminal element of the underclass: Silco’s political movement doesn’t have a hint of solidarity, seemingly deriving all their power through fear, murder and the indoctrination of a child labor-force. This reaches its apotheosis in the assault on the chemical factory, where the movement’s soldiers are slave-monsters being beaten down and killed with the same technology that was supposed to help them. At the same time, there lies a key that possibly renders the ideological distortion visible in the character of Jinx. Time and time again, Jinx has to convince people that she’s not brainwashed, that she actually does believe in her actions. We have Piltover’s fear of the underclass weaponizing their technology against them, which echoes the fear ‘civilized’ countries have towards ‘irrational’ countries possibly having WMD’s. In the final moments of the show, this comes to a head in the authentic political act of the series, where Jinx formally renounces her human, pathological trappings in order to directly attack the symbolic order itself, forever changing the terms of what is/isn’t possible. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 00:49
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i am really enjoying this thing where people bring up criticisms which are shown quite literally and explicitly to be false in the show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZRI4vgOdlw
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Dec 9, 2021 01:20
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What you've cited there is Silco's second-in-command telling him to his face that she might betray the cause if a strong enough figure came along.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:13
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KVeezy3 posted:At the same time, there lies a key that possibly renders the ideological distortion visible in the character of Jinx. Time and time again, Jinx has to convince people that she’s not brainwashed, that she actually does believe in her actions. We have Piltover’s fear of the underclass weaponizing their technology against them, which echoes the fear ‘civilized’ countries have towards ‘irrational’ countries possibly having WMD’s. In the final moments of the show, this comes to a head in the authentic political act of the series, where Jinx formally renounces her human, pathological trappings in order to directly attack the symbolic order itself, forever changing the terms of what is/isn’t possible. A fair reading, but I don't have high hopes for Riot, and the act of aggression against the council by Jinx is also still conducive to their more centerist roots by positing it as the grief reaction of a child that has lost her father (that she killed) lashing out at what she perceives to be the cause of her woes. In this way it allows the show to have revolutionary overtones while at the same time setting up and leading into the tradtional argument that revolutions attempted by those with anger against the system are either tainted by nature of the emotions involved or, like many emotions, short-lived, without purpose and ultimately harmful or fizzling out. My own personal theory suggests that Mel will survive and have a subplot with her mother surrounding their differing desires and her animosity that will be solved by sitting down and talking it out as a direct comparitive analogy to the current situation involving Piltover and Zuan with a similarly 'both sides' solution. I also hope to proven horribly wrong whenever Arcane S2 comes out.
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Dec 9, 2021 02:15
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KVeezy3 posted:What you've cited there is Silco's second-in-command telling him to his face that she might betray the cause if a strong enough figure came along. "Not for a worm like him. But he won't be the last." Doesn't seem like she's being abstruse about strength here, especially when she could kill Silco herself whenever she wanted, as was aptly demonstrated. It does, however, make sense within the greater context of the scene, Silco's dialogue, her involvement with intimidating the rest of the chem barons... etc. She's loyal to the ideology. She always has been; that's why she abandoned Vander in the first place. Ormi fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Dec 9, 2021 |
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Dec 9, 2021 02:40
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It's an American cartoon, the final message is definitely not going to be "a violent revolution is desirable". It's not really clear where the overall plot is going, but so far it looks like bog standard cartoon politics of "violence bad, friendship and self actualisation good". That's why the firelights faction exist, who obviously and unrealistically have resolved all their problems in a non violent manner and are now a happy little hidden utopia. Don't get bamboozled by the show using Marxist setting beats and logic, it's not going to go there. I do think Bertolt Brecht was probably an influence on the writers, there's just a lot of similarities in plot and style. Even the way the action sometimes devolves into a music video sequence is kind of Brechtian, and of course the waffling about whether being a good person is feasible, and the extremely dialectical portrayal of violence (it's necessary, then it's cool, no wait it's terrible) is also reflective of his plays.
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Dec 9, 2021 06:55
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pidan posted:I do think Bertolt Brecht was probably an influence on the writers, there's just a lot of similarities in plot and style. Even the way the action sometimes devolves into a music video sequence is kind of Brechtian, and of course the waffling about whether being a good person is feasible, and the extremely dialectical portrayal of violence (it's necessary, then it's cool, no wait it's terrible) is also reflective of his plays. I don't think the music video material is particularly Brechtian. If we saw the hands of the animators, I'd be more inclined to agree, but I get more of the sense that these are Riot's basic building blocks -- they're an enjoyable genre construction which Riot uses to broadcast its product, not a distanciation device. Beyond that, a lot of this particular animation subgenre (I don't have a good name for it, but it includes stuff like RWBY, Red vs Blue, Overwatch promotional videos, etc.) is significantly crosspollinated with general YouTube culture, including music videos. They're fundamentally antecedent to the genre, and not a reminder of the inherent artificial nature of fiction.
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Dec 9, 2021 07:46
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pidan posted:It's an American cartoon, the final message is definitely not going to be "a violent revolution is desirable". It's not really clear where the overall plot is going, but so far it looks like bog standard cartoon politics of "violence bad, friendship and self actualisation good". That's why the firelights faction exist, who obviously and unrealistically have resolved all their problems in a non violent manner and are now a happy little hidden utopia. I hadn't thought of it that way but that doesn't kind of jive with Riot being run by tech bro libertarians. Until Activision decided to steal the crown they were the gold standard for 'don't do this' hr policies.
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Dec 9, 2021 16:47
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I hadn't thought of it that way but that doesn't kind of jive with Riot being run by tech bro libertarians. Until Activision decided to steal the crown they were the gold standard for 'don't do this' hr policies. That undersells UbiSoft who's been going HAM since day one (which is not to say Riot isn't awful).
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Dec 9, 2021 18:55
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Here's Sting's live performance of What Could Have Been from the Game Awards show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1klbTzBQpk
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Dec 10, 2021 16:27
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Dawgstar posted:That undersells UbiSoft who's been going HAM since day one (which is not to say Riot isn't awful). I was speaking more to the public perception, Riot's stuff has mostly been shadowed by Activision, but California's DFEH is preparing a suit against them as well on behalf of the employees that tried to file a class action suit but were bound by a bullshit arbitration clause.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:23
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Vulin posted:Here's Sting's live performance of What Could Have Been from the Game Awards show. loving wild that Sting is on a game awards show because of this show.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:27
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Vulin posted:Here's Sting's live performance of What Could Have Been from the Game Awards show. Great song, OST version is awesome (wish we got more of the violin parts in the show), and it's amazing Sting's involved, but this was a bit rough. I wonder if Sting's monitor wasn't working right? He was noticeably under-pitch in places, and timing seemed off. Also, as a violinist myself (amateur), I know Ray was kicking himself for the flub around 2:20. He got the hard parts, but sometimes the easy parts just trip you up.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:30
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:loving wild that Sting is on a game awards show because of this show. He's always had a pretty good head for this non-traditional marketing. He was one of the first musicians to say 'Well MTV isn't really doing videos anymore, I'll cross promote my new song by licensing it for a commercial." Then Desert Rose becomes his biggest hit in over a decade
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Dec 10, 2021 20:39
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Another good branding decision was to go by "Sting" instead of "Gordon Sumner"
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Dec 10, 2021 20:52
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zoux posted:Another good branding decision was to go by "Sting" instead of "Gordon Sumner" 
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Dec 10, 2021 20:55
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I don't know anything about violinists but the violinist was real good. I'm assuming he's some kind of big deal?
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Dec 11, 2021 00:48
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Random Integer posted:I don't know anything about violinists but the violinist was real good. I'm assuming he's some kind of big deal? yeah he's a big deal
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Dec 11, 2021 01:23
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zoux posted:Another good branding decision was to go by "Sting" instead of "Gordon Sumner" that wasnt sting i didn't see a single scorpion deathlock 
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Dec 11, 2021 01:51
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Dawgstar posted:that wasnt sting i didn't see a single scorpion deathlock :colbert: i thought the two were the same person for the longest time :))))))
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Dec 11, 2021 02:03
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God that would own so incredibly hard.
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Dec 11, 2021 02:10
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Sting song is good but the motown-esque one at the end of ep 2 is still my fave
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Dec 11, 2021 02:19
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In retrospect the most unrealistic part of this show was Mel oil-painting in full queen diva attire like that poo poo won't get in everything, hair, mouth, nails...gorl pUT ON A SMOCK
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Dec 11, 2021 02:37
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pidan posted:By picking the Piltover stories for a show, they honestly made things relatively easy for themselves. The worldbuilding needed to understand the plots is basically nonexistent, it's a simple "rich vs poor, science good vs science dangerous, violence good or bad" story. Any idiot can understand those ideas. I think X-Men has saturated the cultural consciousness enough that, "People with powers are persecuted because they are feared" for most audiences (Especially those watching a MOBAnime) to understand immediately. It takes at most half an episode of the fantasy fuzz tracking down and roughly apprehending a powered person for most people to get the gist.
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Dec 11, 2021 04:08
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i thought that this show was cool, thanks for your time.
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Dec 11, 2021 08:13
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It would be so cool to see them pave the way for a LoL cinematic universe, see the other regions intermingle with the main narrative, maybe trow a cosmic entity as the big baddie (the Void?)...but I can't even imagine the time/effort/money for something like this, even for Riot/Tencent pockets.
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Dec 11, 2021 19:40
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Personal_Nirvana posted:It would be so cool to see them pave the way for a LoL cinematic universe, see the other regions intermingle with the main narrative, maybe trow a cosmic entity as the big baddie (the Void?)...but I can't even imagine the time/effort/money for something like this, even for Riot/Tencent pockets. The only way I see this getting done is if Riot gets another studio to work on a series covering the other region in parallel to the work being done on Arcane, and letting each have its own distinct look and feel. It would be kind of like the old CoD dev cycles where you had 3 studios, with 3 year cycles pumping out a product, ensuring you had something coming out every year. The problem is I don’t know if there are 2 more Fortiche level studios out there who are willing to wholly dedicate themselves to producing content for Riot.
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Dec 12, 2021 05:35
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eth0.n posted:Great song, OST version is awesome (wish we got more of the violin parts in the show), and it's amazing Sting's involved, but this was a bit rough. I wonder if Sting's monitor wasn't working right? He was noticeably under-pitch in places, and timing seemed off. Yeah, I thought the same thing, I initially attributed the timing to Sting being Sting and maybe "going off script" a bit, but with the issues it really seems like monitor issues. Then again, I don't think I've ever watched Sting sing anything live in recent years, sooo... 
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Dec 12, 2021 05:47
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TyrantWD posted:The only way I see this getting done is if Riot gets another studio to work on a series covering the other region in parallel to the work being done on Arcane, and letting each have its own distinct look and feel. I don't think every entry needs to be the same quality as Arcane, plenty of other properties have popular, cheap tie ins. Animatrix, the star wars animes, the Witcher anime, Marvel obviously has the comics, and so on. If they keep the level of storytelling, plenty of fans will watch and enjoy stuff that isn't as technically polished. So they could have the big prestige show that takes forever to make (Arcane now, something else eventually) and then a bunch of side projects that don't take as much resources. This is not some totally new venture, they've been publishing stories and comics and short films for years. If nothing else, I guarantee they'll keep doing that. I'd expect that they'll release some directly Arcane related content during 2022 to keep fans engaged. Probably even some tie-in champions in the actual game, but also lore stuff.
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Dec 12, 2021 05:52
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You also don’t need every series to be the same style. Basically come on Riot give us the drat Star Guardian anime already.
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Dec 12, 2021 06:54
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