|
Orcs and Ostriches posted:She knew she had to complete the time loop. She wasn't going to do anything drastically different or otherwise who knows what would happen. yeah, it'd be wildly out of place for someone to take a tremendous risk and leap into the unknown for the sake of a better future, in this expansion. Better to just punt it to the malformed potato thing you met once. The safe option.
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 07:54 |
|
|
Hythlodaeus himself said they intended to do the third sacrifice from the moment that they began planning the second one. However necessary the first and second sacrifices were, the third one was explicitly not necessary. It's at this point that Venat realizes that she has to remove sacrificing to Zodriark as an option, even if the consequences of doing so are drastic. Because once they start doing sacrifices they don't need to do, sacrifice is the means through which they will try and solve all their problems. Venat does not want to sunder everyone, but it is the only way to stop Zodiark's followers while at the same time preserving some hope for the future. She knows that the Ancients will destroy themselves now, so the only hope is to bind Zodiark and hope the more dynamis infused people of the future can somehow find a way to fight back. It's not that she wants to close the time loop so much as that is the only option left that offers any hope for a better future.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 19:56
|
|
|
 Hmm.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 19:59
|
|
|
Aw drat
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
The ending loving sucked compared to Shadowbringers. Meteion is horrific magical girl bullshit and history is going to show that I'm right. This was incredible loving garbage. I'm not even joking. This was just bad.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
Ape Fist posted:The ending loving sucked compared to Shadowbringers. Meteion is horrific magical girl bullshit and history is going to show that I'm right. This was incredible loving garbage. I'm not even joking. This was just bad. Emet was more magical girl than meteion. Mets was more super robo or Shonen ending. Sorry about the bad take tho. End walkers ending is basically just eureka 7
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
Ape Fist posted:The ending loving sucked compared to Shadowbringers. Meteion is horrific magical girl bullshit and history is going to show that I'm right. This was incredible loving garbage. I'm not even joking. This was just bad. nah
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
I think history's call is going to be a conflicted one. Clearly people have a strong positive emotional reaction to the overall package in general. On the other hand even those people have to eg quickly concede hydaelyn's most important scene makes no sense and is some kind of vague metaphor as convenience requires
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
Ape Fist posted:The ending loving sucked compared to Shadowbringers. Meteion is horrific magical girl bullshit and history is going to show that I'm right. This was incredible loving garbage. I'm not even joking. This was just bad. lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:17
|
|
|
magical girls own btw but meteion isn't one
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
endwalker would be better if she was though
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
Vermain posted:nah I'm right, actually.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:19
|
|
|
No Mods No Masters posted:[...] hydaelyn's most important scene makes no sense [...] Its absolute loving jibberish. This is bad. I'm right.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:20
|
|
|
What would Slavoj Žižek think about the ending?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
You can not like it if you want but this "you'll all agree with me eventually" poo poo is real weird.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:What would Slavoj Žižek think about the ending? Pure ideology! My god!
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:22
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:What would Slavoj Žižek think about the ending? *schniff* it was nonsense, but, i tell you, i enjoyed the experience, i had a good time, you know, and in the former yugoslavia i would tell you, you know, the journey was enjoyable, but my gott, what was the ending? i'm telling you, i have friends in japan who have told me *schniff* this is nonsense, i cannot abide it, you know. but it is how it is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:22
|
|
|
I think it's likely that the consensus will settle somewhere around "the emotional core is extremely powerful and the fantastic elements used to explore them are cool as poo poo, but unfortunately have a few plot holes 9/10"
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:23
|
|
|
Zokari posted:You can not like it if you want but this "you'll all agree with me eventually" poo poo is real weird. tbh a lot of media critique eventually settles on one guy going 'give it time you'll see actually this thing was x' and as the dust settles people find that to be true. and i am confident, in fact dangerously so that i am right. i am right 100% of the time on all things. i once said to myself, i said 'ape fist, people won't like anime', and you know i was right. look at it now? no one likes anime. it is unversally regarded as a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:24
|
|
|
i like anime
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I think it's likely that the consensus will settle somewhere around "the emotional core is extremely powerful and the fantastic elements used to explore them are cool as poo poo, but unfortunately have a few plot holes 9/10" I do still definitely want some clarification on the Echo vs. the blessing of Light. They're normally pretty good about having a character pop in and say, "Oh, we thought this was X.... but it was actually Y????" after some big revelation, but the distinction is still pretty muddy over what actually kept us safe from tempering in the past.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:I think it's likely that the consensus will settle somewhere around "the emotional core is extremely powerful and the fantastic elements used to explore them are cool as poo poo, but unfortunately have a few plot holes 9/10" im being dramatic and controversial to be a little cheeky troller, but i dont think EW is bad. i just think it isn't as good as ShB. Its still better than, lmao, lmfao, Stormblood, and marginally better than Heavensward. but I DO think people are going to look back at a bunch of the pacing and story choices in EW and go 'Hang on what the gently caress was this?'
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
I think a lot of the reason I feel disappointment with EW is because it pretty much confirms ShB's quality was an anomaly rather than a new baseline. Not exactly a surprise but a bit of a sadness all the same
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
honestly I don't think the pacing is that much worse than shadowbringers. It has two sections that just suck rear end pacing wise (both in labyrinthos) but shadowbringers has that dumbass trolley arc
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
The difference between the echo and the blessing of light is one of those things I have just decided to not care about and I don’t think the story loses much if you don’t
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:honestly I don't think the pacing is that much worse than shadowbringers. It has two sections that just suck rear end pacing wise (both in labyrinthos) but shadowbringers has that dumbass trolley arc I didnt mind it because the music in that zone slapped.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:29
|
|
|
I SUNDER US wait why I SUNDER US again, why? I SUNDER US ??????????? ok?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
Also that one section in Labyrinthos was bad but not because of “pacing” but instead because they replaced the music with the “exciting things are happening” music for way too long “Pacing” is one of those words like “hamfisted” or “plot holes” where I feel like because of YouTube media criticism it just doesn’t mean anything anymore
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:honestly I don't think the pacing is that much worse than shadowbringers. It has two sections that just suck rear end pacing wise (both in labyrinthos) but shadowbringers has that dumbass trolley arc It also has the rather longwinded introduction to the Tempest with the Ondo, a lot of dithering about in Il Mheg (which I think people have a much rosier memory over solely thanks to Seto), multiple significant death rugpulls, and Ran'jit constantly showing up like a Power Rangers villain. Every story's got its weaknesses, and the ones in EW are necessarily going to feel more apparent because of how much clearer they are in recollection.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
Yeah none of the weaknesses of endwalker are going to be sticking in my mind a month from now because they didn't have the emotional strength that the high points did. Going "this is kind of dragging" is not the kind of emotion that forms lasting memories
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Yeah none of the weaknesses of endwalker are going to be sticking in my mind a month from now because they didn't have the emotional strength that the high points did. Going "this is kind of dragging" is not the kind of emotion that forms lasting memories idk man for me the 'I looked out among the stars, saw only death and despair, and from this I learned that nothingness is the only true peace' would have been better delivered from the mouth of something other than a KAWAII ^.^ MOE~~~ harpy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
Ape Fist posted:*schniff* it was nonsense, but, i tell you, i enjoyed the experience, i had a good time, you know, and in the former yugoslavia i would tell you, you know, the journey was enjoyable, but my gott, what was the ending? i'm telling you, i have friends in japan who have told me *schniff* this is nonsense, i cannot abide it, you know. but it is how it is. Thank you for this. I can definitely understand why people might not like the ending, and I felt it a little myself. Some things do seem to be pulled out of nowhere, and it's always going to be a challenge to introduce the actual antagonist in the final act. And there are plenty of cracks; I agree with a lot of folks' assessment that this feels like two expansions chopped up and taped together into one. But personally, I didn't have very high expectations. I knew it would be a huge hurdle to be better than SHB, and that it came close was good enough for me. Also, compared to a lot of other long running series' endings, that it mostly stuck the landing (but kind of stumbled) is impressive to me. Especially compared to series like, say, Mass Effect, that not only didn't stick the landing, but also fell over and poo poo their pants for good measure. So yeah, taken on its own, EW definitely isn't as good as SHB, probably not even as good as HW. But taken as a whole, especially part of a series that started out with abysmally low expectations (remember, ARR not being god awful was considered a miracle back in the day), I'm pretty satisfied. I'd be interested to see how people who have been around since ARR feel about it vs. folks who started playing within the last two years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
I've been ruminating on the Hydaelyn walk cutscene, and while it struck me as weird at the time, I think it is thematically coherent with the rest of the story. The rest of the convocation are willing to do whatever it takes to get back what they lost, regardless of the cost. The latter part is the important part, instead of moving forward they're looking back with rose-colored glasses. We get to see Elpis, so now we know firsthand how good it was, so we're more sympathetic than ever to that idea. But the parallel in the current day is Garlemald! They were willing to do whatever it took to get back the tropical paradise they were kicked out of, and in the process became a big horrible empire. The outcome of the Convocation's ideals is the Ascians, and Emet inventing fascism so they can keep feeding people to the cause of freeing Zodiark. It wouldn't be different if Zodiark weren't imprisoned, they'd keep sacrificing everything to keep him going. Elpis, Allag, and Garlemald all operate on the same logic, ultimately. Lesser beings are disposable, working towards this larger goal is more important than their pain. And it ends up in the same place as the dead civilizations we've seen, they can never achieve the perfection they're looking for, so they fall to despair.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
Ape Fist posted:idk man for me the 'I looked out among the stars, saw only death and despair, and from this I learned that nothingness is the only true peace' would have been better delivered from the mouth of something other than a KAWAII ^.^ MOE~~~ harpy. No that part was perfect
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:42
|
|
|
Endwalker is the BioShock Infinite of MMO storylines and history will vindicate its detractors.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
It's just a video game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
Is the God of Stories going to descend from the sky and declare you correct
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:49
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Like straight up now that I think about it. The way forward for the Ancients with what we now know, was not more sacrifice to Zodiark to solve their problems. Sacrificing more Ancients was the start of a cycle of sacrifice for miracles. The way forward as far as Endwalker seems concerned would be to build a future where Zodiark is not needed at all, not one where sacrifices are made in his name for miracles. Imagine if their goal was to rebuild the Star and find a permanent solution to the End of Days. Instead of tossing different aether into the big guy to get the souls of the Ancients back our. Creating a world where Zodiark is not needed should have been their goal. I think that this is text, yeah. The problem was never trying to repair the damage. It was denying the damage had even occurred. As Venat says, every paradise has its shadows. Suffering existed in the Unsundered World, and the Ancients needed to remember their ability to endure and overcome it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:49
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:
I've been here since 2.1 and my opinion is conflicted. Elpis was the only zone I thought was fantastic and I enjoyed every second I was there. I had a TON of issues with the pacing, the big emotional beats didn't hit me, whether in Garlemald or Thavnair, or with the Scions. To me the last zone was visually magnificent but I didn't feel emotion, I just felt artiface. It was a great final boss fight, though part of me wonders if maybe it was just a big stupid monster like Lavos it would've worked better. I am largely conflicted on the expansions themes as well. For me personally as an overall experience I think Stormblood is the closest comparison. The highs are much higher, but the lows are much lower. And if anything, I just pray it means all the actual mmo content will be as fun as SB's. I admit it could be not working for me, or my reads being 'bad' or whatever, but at the end of the day it didn't work for me, as much as I've sat here pondering why and wishing it did because I see everyone elses reaction and wishing I was taking part of it. I just wish I enjoyed the whole thing as much as I did specific parts of it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 07:54 |
|
|
I'm just glad FFXIV finally has a kawaii uguu mascot character to market. More body pillows, faster engine upgrades
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2021 21:58
|
|