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Mendrian posted:The steam release is never coming is it. I think it'll be here sooner than I originally anticipated, watching the occasional video updates. Not sure how long the recent Meph drama and the subsequent art redo-redo is going to push things back, but I've been pretty pleased with how it all seems to be coming along.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:12
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see, this poo poo is why Toady never wanted to work with anyone besides his brother, humans suck.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:20
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Alehkhs posted:I think it'll be here sooner than I originally anticipated, watching the occasional video updates. Not sure how long the recent Meph drama and the subsequent art redo-redo is going to push things back, but I've been pretty pleased with how it all seems to be coming along. what's this? e: oh.  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg8331428#msg8331428
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Dec 12, 2021 03:24
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oof 
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Dec 12, 2021 04:03
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I don't really understand that post? What exactly did he do?
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Dec 12, 2021 04:19
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packetmantis posted:I don't really understand that post? What exactly did he do? From poking around the forums Before Meph got hired, he had a free tileset that spruced up the game appearance as part of a mod for players. That included a mishmash of google image searched sprites from some existing games. After he got hired, they started work on a totally new tileset, which didn't reference the old free one. Basically Meph's job was turning creatures into skeletons or statues or whatever. Recently, some people got upset about the fact that the old free one had sprites from existing games in it, and got very upset. The company decided that it was best to be cautious, and get rid of Meph entirely. Tunicate fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 04:26
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some real bullshit imo. overly cautious. releasing a modpack one time with some copyrighted sprites should, legally speaking, have gently caress all to do with any work done professionally but then i'm not sure it ever made much sense to employ meph as a graphics guy rather than a content guy, given that masterwork is 99% about elaborating on the fortress mode economy and creature/sapient being variety rather than graphics
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Dec 12, 2021 06:09
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 That's dumb as hell.
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Dec 12, 2021 06:19
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I came in here because I was like "man I haven't checked on this in a while" and now I wish I hadn't. So loving dumb.
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Dec 12, 2021 07:35
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packetmantis posted:
Ah, but thats life.
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Dec 12, 2021 07:36
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Based on the last few interviews, it seems like the UI and stuff was much farther behind than the sprites and graphics. Ultimately I don't think this will delay the steam version. We should expect it by 2025.
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Dec 12, 2021 08:24
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Losing [your job / months of progress] is fun!
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Dec 12, 2021 14:12
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I looked through some of the posts, and while I think the reaction was way overblown I think there was a real issue here. The graphics sets credited a few people as if it were an exhaustive list (citing in particular those whose work was being legally used per license terms) while mixing in things like sprites from Lufia II badly resized to fit or other peoples' stuff from google images. Since the credits were usually four people plus meph it was definitely implying a lot of credit to meph for work that was not their own. That said they always credited me when they used my stuff so that's nice anyway.
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Dec 12, 2021 14:30
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It was a free mod from 5 years ago published on the forums of an obscure video game, who cares about accurate crediting. There are less discerning, bigger mods published on Nexus every minute.
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Dec 12, 2021 15:07
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steinrokkan posted:It was a free mod from 5 years ago published on the forums of an obscure video game, who cares about accurate crediting. Yeah but none of those nexus mod authors are being hired to make TES6 or whatever. I can see why, when you're making an actual commercial product, you'd want to distance yourself from that.
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Dec 12, 2021 16:17
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steinrokkan posted:It was a free mod from 5 years ago published on the forums of an obscure video game, who cares about accurate crediting. i once modded the Starbound forums and let me tell you, there is nobody more more pedantic and annoying than video game modders
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Dec 12, 2021 16:28
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This is probably less their own decision and more them acting on the advice of their legal council, protecting them from a potential lawsuit. The important question isn't if there is any copyright infringement, but whether a third party could believably argue that there is, leading into a huge legal mess that would cost a tone of time and money.
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Dec 12, 2021 16:31
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Eh I think it's a pretty poo poo situation. Mods are how some people learn about coding and game design. It's basically fan fiction. Correct attribution would be nice but expecting professional attribution from mod authors is a bit of a stretch. Asking someone still literally trying to learn how making mods even works to behave as if they are a professional programmer is stupid. Getting a job shouldn't require you to retroactively become perfect. There were other ways to distance themselves from the unattributed work.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:17
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Grevlek posted:Based on the last few interviews, it seems like the UI and stuff was much farther behind than the sprites and graphics. Ultimately I don't think this will delay the steam version. We should expect it by 2025. I'm pretty optimistic about a 2022 release, from what I've gathered so far they really haven't hit any major snags along the way and stuff that they expected to get hung up on are already over and done with.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:26
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Pakled posted:Yeah but none of those nexus mod authors are being hired to make TES6 or whatever. I can see why, when you're making an actual commercial product, you'd want to distance yourself from that. A lot of mod authors do infact get hired by game companies if there mod is particularly notable.
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Dec 12, 2021 19:45
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It seems like a lot of what he was doing was brute force combinatorial stuff, like taking an existing tiger or snake sprite from the main artist, drawing over it as a skeleton, then making a couple of intermediate variations so there'd be a skeleton, zombie, and misc undead version of a tiger or snake. Or doing recolors to make statue version of existing creatures, etc. So a lot of tedious but low skill floor stuff.
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Dec 12, 2021 22:18
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steinrokkan posted:It was a free mod from 5 years ago published on the forums of an obscure video game, who cares about accurate crediting.
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Dec 12, 2021 23:52
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Mendrian posted:Eh I think it's a pretty poo poo situation. Mods are how some people learn about coding and game design. It's basically fan fiction. Correct attribution would be nice but expecting professional attribution from mod authors is a bit of a stretch. Asking someone still literally trying to learn how making mods even works to behave as if they are a professional programmer is stupid. Getting a job shouldn't require you to retroactively become perfect. Yeah, it's like expecting somebody to get fired from writing for a newspaper / magazine because they failed to disclose the sources of content made for an entry in a Photoshop Phriday thread or for illustrations in a CYOA thread.
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Dec 13, 2021 00:00
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this is very much about toady limiting risk to his own IP (or his lawyers advising him to do it, take your pick) and not anything else and that is absolutely OK
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Dec 13, 2021 05:07
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, it's like expecting somebody to get fired from writing for a newspaper / magazine because they failed to disclose the sources of content made for an entry in a Photoshop Phriday thread or for illustrations in a CYOA thread. We scoff now but I have no doubt that someone vengeful enough will push this into becoming case law.
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Dec 13, 2021 14:32
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I'm not sure what that has to do with case law. You can get fired for liking the color blue.
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Dec 13, 2021 15:22
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packetmantis posted:
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Dec 13, 2021 15:58
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I can definitely see the unspoken angle that Meph's actual capacity as an artist was greatly overestimated by the quality of his mod so he just couldn't keep up with the pace expected of him as a full time employee. It may not entirely be IP bullshit.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:13
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I don't blame them for doing it but the mod guy who whined about it is pretty cringe and exactly what i expect from modders
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Dec 13, 2021 19:45
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eonwe posted:I don't blame them for doing it but the mod guy who whined about it is pretty cringe and exactly what i expect from modders This is far more cringe than Meph's statement. He was about as professional as you could possibly expect about it, and it's hard for me to find anything in his post that would qualify as whining even to the most uncharitable reader.
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Dec 13, 2021 20:01
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M_Gargantua posted:I can definitely see the unspoken angle that Meph's actual capacity as an artist was greatly overestimated by the quality of his mod so he just couldn't keep up with the pace expected of him as a full time employee. It may not entirely be IP bullshit. like i said, meph being hired as a graphics guy never made any sense at all. he's a content modder but toady doesn't want anyone to touch content programming other than himself, so there's no role on the project for someone like meph really. and even his content is...uneven. good adjustments and additions to fortress mode economy, interesting alt-race fortress modes like humans and orcs, but also unbearably horny succubus poo poo Jazerus fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Dec 13, 2021 |
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Dec 13, 2021 20:41
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From the looks of it this all came to light due to Meph continuing to work on the original plagiarized tileset. One of that tileset's collaborators, Vettlingr, didn't found out and didn't want his own works that were included (with permission) to be associate with plagiarism. There is then a very long thread where Meph has to have why this was a bad thing explained to him a few too many times, before he put out the statement on the main steam thread.
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Dec 13, 2021 20:48
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Zurai posted:This is far more cringe than Meph's statement. He was about as professional as you could possibly expect about it, and it's hard for me to find anything in his post that would qualify as whining even to the most uncharitable reader. They meant the person who put Meph on public blast and started the whole thing, not Meph.
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Dec 14, 2021 06:40
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Jazerus posted:like i said, meph being hired as a graphics guy never made any sense at all. he's a content modder but toady doesn't want anyone to touch content programming other than himself, so there's no role on the project for someone like meph really. and even his content is...uneven. good adjustments and additions to fortress mode economy, interesting alt-race fortress modes like humans and orcs, but also unbearably horny succubus poo poo Pretty sure the succubus race was one of the things in masterwork, along with... Maybe two of the other races? That were added by community members. For a while I'm pretty sure he said that if you had a fully featured race that didn't break poo poo and wouldn't require him to do a ton of work fixing it, he would add it in. Don't quote me though, this is me vaguely remembering stuff from when I played masterwork last, half a decade ago.
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Dec 14, 2021 23:43
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I really liked that necromancer mod he published quite a lot but he did like one and a half iterations of it and then dropped it forever.
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Dec 15, 2021 00:13
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Sucks that the necromancer mod was dropped, I really liked that 
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Dec 16, 2021 02:02
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Now you can be a necromancer in adventure mode and force your undead
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Dec 16, 2021 04:41
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Meph mod had a building that would take the appropriate amount of inputs and make a full set of clothing or armor and I truly wish that had been added into the base game.
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Dec 16, 2021 05:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l0HB8Qb2Cw ZOOMING IN on the embark screen. Also it looks good.
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Dec 16, 2021 22:56
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 It's a new embark screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l0HB8Qb2Cw
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Dec 16, 2021 22:57
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