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drrockso20 posted:See I'm of the opinion that 5CP is probably the second worst standard mode in TF2 besides CTF*(at least if you aren't on a server that sets the cap limit to like 300 or something), at least when done with the casual standard of 12v12(it works better with Sixes or Prolander) as you tend to have only two results both incredibly obnoxious; either one team stomps the other into a mudhole and the match is over in like 5 minutes or an endless stalemate that lasts like 35 minutes I will never like CTF in TF2 because you can't return your own flag by touching it. It makes the whole game mode a process of suiciding spies at the flag to move it a few inches. Then again, this is my bona fides as an old starsiege tribes 1 player speaking. CTF was the primary game mode in that game. Since the location of the enemy flag wasn't broadcasted via arrow in that game, as a defender you could elect to leave a flag out in the field and not return it to hide where it was. It made CTF way more interesting. I don't mind 5CP every once in a while because playing engineer on it is fun. You have to be fluid and frugal about building setup. I do vastly prefer payload, though. KOTH and payload race are just TF2 limping along without a proper TDM mode.
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Nov 25, 2021 04:19
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But the biggest sin of quickplay is that I literally can't queue up to play against my friends. Either we're on the same team, or we just have to queue up separately and hope to get randomly dumped in the same server.
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Nov 25, 2021 04:23
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I miss being able to select a specific gamemode valve server from the browser. Nightfall and that other plr map were cool as gently caress and i havent played them in years
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Nov 25, 2021 04:26
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:I will never like CTF in TF2 because you can't return your own flag by touching it. It makes the whole game mode a process of suiciding spies at the flag to move it a few inches. Then again, this is my bona fides as an old starsiege tribes 1 player speaking. CTF was the primary game mode in that game. Since the location of the enemy flag wasn't broadcasted via arrow in that game, as a defender you could elect to leave a flag out in the field and not return it to hide where it was. It made CTF way more interesting. Would probably make more sense to have it so friendlies being near their own flag speeds up it returning rather than instantly returning it
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Nov 25, 2021 04:26
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drrockso20 posted:Would probably make more sense to have it so friendlies being near their own flag speeds up it returning rather than instantly returning it I always thought this. Make it like a cap point where the more player touch it the faster it ticks down. Would make suicide rushing through a full team useless but it still would mean the enemies have to hunker down around it for a bit to defend.
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Nov 25, 2021 04:29
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:As a pretty poor team player (voice_enable 0 for life), I feel like these are all solvable problems. they're solvable, yes, but they're solvable using good team coordination. when you reach an actual competitive level, payload ceases to have these specific problems(although the underlying issue of every official payload map being far too chokey remains). unfortunately at the casual level this does not happen because while the players are individually trying hard they are still a gaggle of random people who don't know each other and don't pay attention to any attempts at organization, which is why the prevailing strategies boil down to "concentrate as much beef on the cart as possible" and "spawncamp". they arise naturally out of people just doing what they, individually, think will work("I'm gonna play a beefy class and push the cart" and "I'm gonna shoot stickies at the other team or build a sentry to cover the point") but require a coordinated effort from multiple people to stop. dislodging 3 heavies from a cart or taking down 3 overlapping sentries is quite difficult for any player to do, and the nature of the task is such that getting 99% of the way to success and then failing gains you nothing(you can bring those heavies/sentries down to 1 hp before you die and a few seconds later it'll be like you never did anything at all). So, in the absence of intentional coordination, these strategies work and 9 times out of 10 you can tell who is going to win a match in the first 10 seconds based entirely on whether BLU is able to successfully leave their own spawn.
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Nov 25, 2021 04:38
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Otacon posted:It was balanced when it was basically a kamikaze suicide weapon. A last resort to use when the odds look bleak - Predator vs Arnold. It did 35 melee damage, and 100 AOE damage on explode. That 135 damage means it killed 4/9 classes outright, and the 100 AOE damage is a lot towards those four 125HP classes, and still a decent chunk on the other classes. Deemed "unfair" even though the demoman usually died as well, and if he didn't (usually by surfing the jump to avoid fall damage) he had a non-critting melee that only did 35 damage each swing - a major gimp - until he goes back to spawn. God I miss getting the perfect drop on medics behind enemy lines with that and the sticky jumper. Even if I did get gunned down by the rest of their team after, that was usually enough to break down their defense.
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Nov 25, 2021 05:24
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the big problem with a lot of the later rebalancing is that you could tell they were aimed at closing the gap between casual & comp by "fixing" things that tended to see bans in comp play and some of them were poo poo and needed fixing, and some of them were otherwise cool and good things that were only a problem in the context of coordinated 6s. so now instead of having fun toys for casual play that get left out of comp play, they're equally useless for both.
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Nov 25, 2021 05:40
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it felt very much like they would do balance changes that would reduce usage rates to functionally zero and go "mission accomplished". it was always one way too, you had a generation of big buffs which made trash items good, sometimes too good, and years later they would nerf them so they were worse than the original item. still bitter about the bfb.
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Nov 25, 2021 05:45
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CoolCab posted:it felt very much like they would do balance changes that would reduce usage rates to functionally zero and go "mission accomplished". it was always one way too, you had a generation of big buffs which made trash items good, sometimes too good, and years later they would nerf them so they were worse than the original item. they seemed to have this weird assumption that if an item had an inflated level of usage it had to be because the item was overpowered when the reality was that it was usually(though not always) because all of the alternatives were bad. they also had a problem which I've seen in a lot of games' design: the double nerf. Item A is overpowered and requires a nerf. Someone suggests nerfing the damage, someone else suggests nerfing the range. Both suggestions are implemented, and the item goes from being overpowered to being unusable garbage instantly. this hit pyro worst of all because the nature of his kit meant that most of his stuff relied on 2 different items working in tandem. one example of this is the Reserve Shooter. previously an extremely powerful combo in which someone who got close enough to airblast would get popped into the air unable to move and take a pretty much guaranteed shotgun minicrit to the face and die. this was maybe a bit too strong, and people were certainly annoyed by how easy was to do. Two nerfs applied: 1 is that airblast no longer prevents airstrafing or puts people in a predictable position, making it harder to launch people and harder to actually hit them when they're launched. Second is that the Reserve Shooter doesn't minicrit on airblasted targets. So, they took something that was too rewarding for how easy it was to do, made it actually difficult to do in order for it to merit that level of reward, then massively reduced the reward. End result: weapon is trash, no one uses it.
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Nov 25, 2021 06:11
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There's an alarming number of LC crew still hanging around here That is all
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Nov 27, 2021 10:27
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Who?
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Nov 27, 2021 11:53
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Lost Continents, old goon tf2 server
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Nov 27, 2021 14:29
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Run a highlander
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Nov 27, 2021 15:53
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It's g.
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Nov 27, 2021 20:15
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its a shame that windyman never evolved to his final form of esoteric tf2 class content creator for pyro ala uncle dane
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Nov 27, 2021 20:18
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUPzN7tp7bQ Classic poo poo.
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Nov 28, 2021 18:33
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A For Effort posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUPzN7tp7bQ The most basic bitch trolls but somehow so satisfying
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Nov 28, 2021 20:12
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That reminds me how terrible voip sounded back then with everyone on terrible internet with £5 mics.
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Nov 28, 2021 20:23
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"Shut up you're more annoying than OLMEC"
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Nov 28, 2021 23:16
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i love coupon bug dot com
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Nov 29, 2021 00:06
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CouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcom
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Nov 29, 2021 03:38
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A For Effort posted:CouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcom A For Effort posted:CouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcomCouponBugdotcom Ditocoaf posted:i love coupon bug dot com
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Nov 29, 2021 05:08
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love this community.
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Nov 29, 2021 05:11
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cock hero flux posted:they also had a problem which I've seen in a lot of games' design: the double nerf. Item A is overpowered and requires a nerf. Someone suggests nerfing the damage, someone else suggests nerfing the range. Both suggestions are implemented, and the item goes from being overpowered to being unusable garbage instantly. I've seen this kind of thing in so many other games that it ticks me off. One nerf would have been fine, but they applied all the nerfs making that option completely useless trash. It's like there's a lack of restraint in handling how things should be changed quite a lot of the time.
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Nov 29, 2021 06:35
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I'm sorry, but loving lol 
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Nov 29, 2021 11:48
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Hadlock posted:I'm sorry, but loving lol 
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Nov 29, 2021 15:36
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They pushed an update. https://store.steampowered.com/oldnews/101867quote:Fixed Engineer losing metal when hitting damaged buildings while they are being re-deployed after pick-up Holy poo poo.
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Dec 3, 2021 02:16
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Remember freight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg5tgAFiiGs
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Dec 12, 2021 12:23
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No competitive leagues play badlands anymore because apparently people think it's too hard to push out of last? What the gently caress, that was the final destination of team fortress 2 and a great map.
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Dec 12, 2021 16:46
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A For Effort posted:No competitive leagues play badlands anymore because apparently people think it's too hard to push out of last? What the gently caress, that was the final destination of team fortress 2 and a great map. I thought that was part of the appeal, making it more decisive.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:38
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A For Effort posted:No competitive leagues play badlands anymore because apparently people think it's too hard to push out of last? What the gently caress, that was the final destination of team fortress 2 and a great map. If they raised the last point's capture time slightly above "45.923 femtoseconds," it might be more possible to defend it.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:19
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Final points being easy to capture is the point. It lets the game actually come to an end instead of being an endless sine wave shaped stalemate. It's comp babies whining about the fact that they lose half their games.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:24
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A For Effort posted:No competitive leagues play badlands anymore because apparently people think it's too hard to push out of last? What the gently caress, that was the final destination of team fortress 2 and a great map. (2Fort is the Hyrule Castle.)
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Dec 12, 2021 21:05
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Badlands last is problematic for a number of reasons. The fast cap is actually probably one of the lesser of it. Attacking is easy to get bogged down. There is the problem that the ceiling is really low and it’s easier to turtle than a map like process, sunshine, and snake water. Even gullywash, which is probably the closest to it in age, you can still somewhat bomb on last.
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Dec 12, 2021 21:49
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Honestly 5CP is kind of a mediocre mode anyways, at least in the more casual 9v9 to 12v12 environment that 95% of people play in, only really works to any real degree of smoothness in competitive environments like Sixes or Prolander Most 5CP maps would be improved by turning them into KOTH maps like with Badlands(for that matter the same could be said for most CTF maps too)
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Dec 12, 2021 22:20
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I agree. As someone who’s favorite game mode is 5CP, it gets perpetually worse after 8 players a side. Even if there’s a decent disparity in skill, it can be a neat grinder still. Payload and Koth are great for pubs because it forces the action at a single, central location. Most players can handle thinking about getting to the payload or the single point. 5CP, until last, is too dynamic for most players.
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Dec 12, 2021 23:56
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Payload giving out free health and ammo to the pushing team is a big part of why I think it's the best game mode for casual play. Red team gets the control of the map and time to prepare and blue team gets rewarded for playing their objective and moving forward at a pace that lets Red set up further on down the map. (Not that the last part works particularly well in this era of well-trained spawn-killers) And heck even though you can totally get stuck trying to take last on most payload maps it even has the kindness that if you're totally and completely sucking at getting the cart where it needs to go the game actually detects for this and starts sending the cart back in your direction. Solid.
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Dec 13, 2021 00:18
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reignofevil posted:And heck even though you can totally get stuck trying to take last on most payload maps it even has the kindness that if you're totally and completely sucking at getting the cart where it needs to go the game actually detects for this and starts sending the cart back in your direction. Solid.
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Dec 13, 2021 00:51
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I think badwater and upward are by far the best casual maps but in 6s I think badlands is still super viable and people are being unreasonable. The turtle heavy last is absolutely possible to overcome and the perfect spire/mid certainly makes up for it. I have the fondest memories watching and playing on that map. I have similar feelings about another now shunned 6s map: granary.
A For Effort fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Dec 13, 2021 |
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Dec 13, 2021 01:40
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