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It's always nice when the already very dangerous plan goes off the rails and becomes more dangerous thirty seconds in.
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# ? Dec 10, 2021 13:19 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 17:16 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Every operation he's led has ended in animal-driven failure, and you want to PROMOTE this moron? With a record like that, he could be a Visser!
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# ? Dec 10, 2021 15:17 |
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Chapter 13quote:The darkness was complete. Ouchie indeed. So, as you can see, this obviously didn't go according to plan. He's confined, scared, and not convinced his friends can find him. Chapter 14 quote:There was a loud banging on the door. Two Hork-Bajir scurried to open it, knocking into each other on the way. A clatter of arm blades as they struggled to disentangle themselves. One finally made it to the door. So Visser Three actually tried sarcasm, good for him. And poor Doctors Sinegert and Singh. We hardly knew ye or your Yeerks. I don't know. I almost think being one of Visser Three's scientists is more dangerous than being one of his soldiers. As a soldier, Ax will probably cut off your hand, but the Yeerks are good at reattaching hands. As a scientist, Visser Three is going to make you build a superweapon without enough time or resources, and then kill you because the light on the machine saying it's on was the wrong shade of yellow or something.
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# ? Dec 11, 2021 04:42 |
Do.... they have a sub-level full of Taxxons?
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# ? Dec 11, 2021 04:51 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Do.... they have a sub-level full of Taxxons? Doesn't EVERYONE have a sublevel full of Taxxons? Maybe....maybe I should spend tomorrow cleaning out my basement.
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# ? Dec 11, 2021 05:33 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Do.... they have a sub-level full of Taxxons? A glorious unending orgy of insect flesh, floor to ceiling, wall to wall.
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# ? Dec 11, 2021 05:42 |
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Love the Hork-Bajir doing the doorway gag. Also Visser 3 being a typical boss by complaining that the machine makes too much noise so they need to fix that.
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# ? Dec 11, 2021 05:49 |
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Chapter 15quote:She planted her face inches from the glass - uncomfortably close - and stared icily into my hawk eyes. A zoo animal on display. That’s how I felt. And here we go.... Chapter 16 quote:Pain off. Gasping. quote:2 Everyone talks sooner or later under torture.
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 05:51 |
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Epicurius posted:Chapter 16 Is this the first time we've seen or heard anything directly of his aunt or uncle, rather than their just being referenced?
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 10:48 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Is this the first time we've seen or heard anything directly of his aunt or uncle, rather than their just being referenced? I'm pretty sure it is, yes.
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 15:44 |
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I really like that the series is careful to test each member of the team with things that directly challenge their best qualities-- Jake's natural leadership, Rachel's ruthlessness, Cassie's pragmatic compassion, Marco's social compassion, and Tobias' drive for purpose. Tobias in-particular gets not only a mission and reason to live, complete with a way out of his poo poo living situation, but then gets given extra-special qualities that are revealed as the series progresses... and in-turn gets tested even more. "Oh so you're really the son of the space prince and the super-special? Cool let's see you cope with actually being the only one who can do a high-risk/low-reward feint on your enemies where even success looks like white-hot blinding torture!" It seems so obvious, but a lot of authors don't key in on their characters' best qualities this well and then figure out proper ways to challenge them. You never saw Hermione in Harry Potter struggling with getting burnt in academia somehow.
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 16:19 |
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This does however miss the fact that torture is incredibly effective at its primary purpose! Which is, when your boss tells you to be brutally effective even if it means you're getting your hands dirty, because his boss in say some sort of political sphere tells him he is expected to take off the kid gloves and do whatever it takes, the sanitised video footage will 100% prove to both of them you're a Tough Guy Who Gets It Done.
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 17:34 |
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mind the walrus posted:
well, I dunno about that. The entire third book is her overreaching and having a stress-breakdown. One of the better bits of subtle characterization is her boggart- McGonagal saying she failed. People brush that off like "oh what a nerd" but really it's the idea that all the stress and hardship she put herself through was for nothing. And also her jealousy when Harry started getting better grades than her in potions sixth book.
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 22:59 |
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Epicurius posted:So Visser Three actually tried sarcasm, good for him. And poor Doctors Sinegert and Singh. We hardly knew ye or your Yeerks. I dunno, those guys had strong voluntary Controller vibes. I can imagine the lure of access to alien technology would be pretty compelling for a scientific genius, and if the trade-off is that they put a parasite in your head, that in turn might be countered if you were assured it was a scientific genius parasite that you could have sciencey conversations with all day. quote:As a soldier, Ax will probably cut off your hand, but the Yeerks are good at reattaching hands. After every Animorph incursion there's a line of anxious humans and Hork-Bajir standing outside the Yeerk Pool clinic with their severed hands sitting in baggies of increasingly-melted ice. The human doctor Controller who works in the clinic has, in his ordinary life, rapidly become a world-leading expert in limb reattachment and has published multiple studies in the Lancet.
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# ? Dec 12, 2021 23:41 |
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Mazerunner posted:well, I dunno about that. The entire third book is her overreaching and having a stress-breakdown. One of the better bits of subtle characterization is her boggart- McGonagal saying she failed. People brush that off like "oh what a nerd" but really it's the idea that all the stress and hardship she put herself through was for nothing. It's always flavor to the side of the main plot, is my point. It's ancillary, and aside from the Time Turner you could excise it from the plot and not really change anything. She's clearly only put in the academic stress plot because it's the excuse needed for the Time Turner (which is a solid plant and payoff). Her fear of failure isn't actually tested in any meaningful way. She has some pokes and some cold water shock, but for the most part she never has to really deal with a character truly outclassing her (which happens to every overachiever in school eventually) or being put in a situation where the team is reliant on her knowledge and she's straight up unable to do jack or poo poo which are the two most obvious places to go with that sort-of character. Part of this is because it's not her story, granted, but contrast that to these stories where the characters' ideals and motivations are very very directly challenged on a plot-to-plot basis and manages to keep the scale escalating. The characters do feel like they grow and change, even if they do mostly just reaffirm the values they already had. freebooter posted:I dunno, those guys had strong voluntary Controller vibes. I can imagine the lure of access to alien technology would be pretty compelling for a scientific genius, and if the trade-off is that they put a parasite in your head, that in turn might be countered if you were assured it was a scientific genius parasite that you could have sciencey conversations with all day. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 13, 2021 |
# ? Dec 13, 2021 00:12 |
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mind the walrus posted:Yeah most "science" types would be hungry for that. "You mean I get to ace all my exams, get access to world class labs, and all I have to do is commit a little treason to my species? Sure sounds great." Well, maybe I've been reading too much Alastair Reynolds lately. On the other hand we've seen a lot of voluntary Controllers so far who seem to have even less of a decent reason to do it.
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# ? Dec 13, 2021 04:30 |
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Chapter 17quote:Again and again, the circle glowed. A deep, agonizing red. quote:Steadfastness is the key word. The main factor in facing torture is steadfastness – the deep faith in the just cause, whatever the form of torture is. Chapter 18 quote:“Arrrgh!” The sub-visser ran at the nearest Hork-Bajir and gave him a shove. He grunted, but knew better than to respond further. quote:"Under torture you are as if under the dominion of those grasses that produce visions. Everything you have heard told, everything you have read returns to your mind, as if you were being transported, not toward heaven, but toward hell. Under torture you say not only what the inquisitor wants, but also what you imagine might please him, because a bond (this, truly, diabolical) is established between you and him ... These things I know, Ubertino; I also have belonged to those groups of men who believe they can produce the truth with white-hot iron. Well, let me tell you, the white heat of truth comes from another flame.”-Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose Epicurius fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Dec 13, 2021 |
# ? Dec 13, 2021 05:41 |
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# ? Dec 13, 2021 06:00 |
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drat.
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# ? Dec 13, 2021 06:24 |
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quote:“Your time is up. Do you understand that? You can never escape your morph. You will be a bird till you die.” Such a good line, with much heavier meaning than Taylor realises, circling back around to his argument with Rachel at the dance. I don't think he's ever really thought about being a permanent hawk long term: he's struggled with it when it happened, and in the day-to-day and the week-to-week, but well, there's a war on, and he doesn't really have the luxury of imagining the rest of his life beyond that. And especially since the Ellimist gave him the power to morph back he knows the option is always there, but since part of him knows that would mean he would never fly again, he's simply not even going to think about the long-term future which is part of why he got so upset when Rachel prodded him into doing so. But also this is lol: quote:I was the hunted in every story of animal cruelty Cassie ever told us about. The Canada goose clubbed to death on the golf course. Just Cassie making some casual small talk as they're in line at the cafeteria
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# ? Dec 13, 2021 06:52 |
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I have no idea what I would have thought if I had read this at the time. I've said this before, but I don't think there's been a bad ghostwritten book yet. (Even the meatpacking one was well-written.) I guess these must really drop off in quality soon to garner the reputation that they have, because that's an even better track record than the Applegate books...
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# ? Dec 13, 2021 10:18 |
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Chapter 19quote:“You vile little bird!” she shrieked. “Who are you? To sacrifice your body! Do you realize what you’ve done?” quote:So, look, torture gives you compliance. I don't want compliance. I want cooperation. I don't want people to tell me what I want to hear. I don't want people to lie to me. I want them to tell me the truth. You don't get that in torture. You get it in building rapport and traditional interrogation techniques that outsmart the detainee into cooperation. There's a big difference between cooperation and compliance.. . . You know, I don't have sympathy for these terrorists. They - as you mentioned, they killed. Some of them were responsible for the death of hundreds, if not thousands of people when it comes to 9/11. Chapter 20 quote:The sub-visser snorted derisively. “He needs me. I’m an expert on humans.” quote:Who becomes a torturer?
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# ? Dec 14, 2021 04:48 |
A Chief of Police is a frightening Controller. In very short order you could be infesting every single person who passes through the cells. Get enough of the staff and you might be able to turn that into every single person who enters the building.
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# ? Dec 14, 2021 05:05 |
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They're very broken but I do like the example of symbiosis happening with their identities? I feel like if the yeerks weren't a lovely military empire they could do real great business as permanent head pals for struggling people. Never be alone again!
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# ? Dec 14, 2021 05:25 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:A Chief of Police is a frightening Controller. In very short order you could be infesting every single person who passes through the cells. Get enough of the staff and you might be able to turn that into every single person who enters the building. "Ok, sir, new security procedure for entering. I'm going to have to ask you to first go through that metal detector and then stick your ear in that bowl."
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# ? Dec 14, 2021 05:45 |
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I'd do a timeshare with a yeerk if it got to do my 40 hours of work each week and I got my body the rest of the time
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# ? Dec 14, 2021 08:17 |
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GodFish posted:I'd do a timeshare with a yeerk if it got to do my 40 hours of work each week and I got my body the rest of the time I think that's called a "slave", actually. But without further ado, Chapter 21 quote:The blue button glowed. I laughed crazily. Like being tickled, I couldn’t stop. quote:. For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.-Definition of torture, UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment Chapter 22 quote:<Pull up! Pull up! War-Prince Elfangor!> An urgent transmission from the commander of the fighter squadron. On the view screen: a Des-badeen tanker in the distinctive figure eight design. quote:I made a choice. It's very easy. You have two choices. You either say something or you don't. And you know that if you don't, they will go on, and there is a limit to your strength and you will die. You will endure enough to die. . . I only had to survive for [my children]. Nothing else mattered. After that, nothing could touch me. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Dec 15, 2021 |
# ? Dec 15, 2021 04:25 |
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quote:<I won’t give in,> I said. <Do you know why?> This has no loving business being as raw as it is
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# ? Dec 15, 2021 06:42 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:They're very broken but I do like the example of symbiosis happening with their identities? I feel like if the yeerks weren't a lovely military empire they could do real great business as permanent head pals for struggling people. Never be alone again! I keep saying, if the Yeerks had taken the tact of the Visitors from V (both versions, really), just "We come in peace, we're here to be your new companions, look at all this cool poo poo we have and are willing to share with you.", Earth would be theirs in a month.
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# ? Dec 15, 2021 08:17 |
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Wasn't that, in a clandestine way, what The Sharing was supposed to be?
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# ? Dec 15, 2021 08:28 |
ConanThe3rd posted:Wasn't that, in a clandestine way, what The Sharing was supposed to be? When V1 was in charge, yeah. And honestly, they had some pretty good plans that have been foiled by those damned kids.
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# ? Dec 15, 2021 08:48 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:When V1 was in charge, yeah. And honestly, they had some pretty good plans that have been foiled by those damned kids. Visser One is definitely one of those "victory has defeated you" characters, to quote my man Bane.
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# ? Dec 15, 2021 08:51 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:When V1 was in charge, yeah. And honestly, they had some pretty good plans that have been foiled by those damned kids. Not really. The Sharing has always been a front for total control by the Yeerks. Visser 1 is more subtle than Visser 3. Visser 1 is more self controlled than Visser 3. Visser 1 understands humanity and human psychology better than Visser 3. Don't assume this means Visser 1 is more compassionate than Visser 3, or less ruthless, or any kinder.
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 03:03 |
I misread the original suggestion, I was thinking of the initial cult-like beginning of the Sharing.
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 03:11 |
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As a kid I kind of assumed the Yeerks and Andalites controlled most of the galaxy between them, and that their war had been going for centuries or more. I felt unaccountably relieved to discover this fictional war is a fairly minor thing on the galactic scale.
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 03:14 |
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Chapter 23quote:<This will make him talk.> quote:“Soon after the German invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939, my father Abraham, the youngest and only unmarried sibling of seven Bursztajns, had been left in charge of the family’s lumber yards in Lodz, while most of the remainder of the family had left for Warsaw. Chapter 24 quote:A smooth blue chin emerged from piercing, sucking mouthparts. Andalite arms sprouted from tiny flea legs. quote:Today, six years ago, I was smuggled out of prison. I was obviously traumatized because of the torture, the starvation and the brutality I went through. Despite being free, it seemed hopeless, dark and scary. I was afraid to meet the world, I was afraid to not be understood. Today, by telling my story repeatedly, I can finally process the trauma and I can celebrate the day I was freed.- Omar Alshogre. Syrian refugee and human rights activist, statement on his twitter account, June 11. 2021
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 04:21 |
At first I thought that last bit was uhh, weird to have in the book but then saw the date
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 05:49 |
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:At first I thought that last bit was uhh, weird to have in the book but then saw the date Yea. I don't feel qualified to comment on these chapters, honestly, so I'm posting information about torture.
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 06:15 |
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Epicurius posted:Yea. I don't feel qualified to comment on these chapters, honestly, so I'm posting information about torture. They're good additions.
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 14:45 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 17:16 |
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HisMajestyBOB posted:They're good additions. I've finally caught up, so let me just add my enthusiastic agreement. Also, this is the point in the series where I finally "got" the idea of what might be like for Yeerks symbiotes instead of parasites. I know we're basically dealing with the heirs/founders of the Yeerks who were big enough jerks/had enough balls to mug some Andalites for their tech and high-tail it out of there. Makes me wonder what the Andalite plan was before that happened.
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# ? Dec 16, 2021 15:50 |