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Two high level rogues having a bluff off: just silly. So that potion's obviously going everywhere.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:24
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Caidin posted:https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1250.html Oh no! Razor is going to forget everything!
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Dec 13, 2021 16:24
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Okay, that was a really good strip, playing very well into Serini having decided that she knows exactly what the Order wants and why, and not actually having a single clue.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:29
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Rogues trying to out-rogue eachother, Belkar having a rare moment of attempted empathy, and a gordian shark.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:33
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Yeah, one of the best strips in a while. It will be funny when Elan arrives and sees this mess after making friends with literally every monster in the dungeon.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:36
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next panel Dr Manhattan obliterates sereni and says ligma balls
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Dec 13, 2021 16:39
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I actually think Haley isn't bluffing here. I genuinely think she doesn't care, or at least, has made the executive decision that Serini's assistance isn't worth the trouble any more. Obviously, it would be HELPFUL if the Order had Serini's expertise at hand, but at this point, the Gate isn't even their goal right now. Their goal is to get Redcloak to agree to close the gate (and killing Xykon, if they can swing it in the bargain.) All the Order needs to accomplish this goal is to interact with Redcloak and Xykon. They don't even need to know where the Gate is, at least not yet (if at all; it's not clear whether Thor's plan requires them to actually find Kraagor's gate, or if they can go to the Redmountain Hills, or if they even need to be close to ANY of them.) In fact, it may be better off that the Order never actually finds Kraagor's gate in the first place.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:40
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Have you considered talking about things first, rather than putting the metaphorical gun to your own head? Sheesh.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:45
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Gun Jam posted:Have you considered talking about things first, rather than putting the metaphorical gun to your own head? Sheesh. You know that's not how anyone here does it.
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Dec 13, 2021 16:51
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:I actually think Haley isn't bluffing here. I genuinely think she doesn't care, or at least, has made the executive decision that Serini's assistance isn't worth the trouble any more. Yeah. At this point, all they really need from her is for her to get out of the way and stop trying to fight them. They were all set to get the jump on Team Evil when Serini came and attacked them, and they can't put their full attention on ambushing Xykon and Redcloak if they have to worry about a high-level rogue waiting to jump them again. If Serini gives herself an amnesia bath, that's unfortunate for their long-term goals, but it gets her out of the way of their immediate goals (and as a bonus, none of the Lawful Good members are around to disapprove of letting her dunk herself). The ambush chance they were setting up for is probably blown already, because that's how these things work. But if they waste too much time dealing with Serini, Xykon's gonna bust through the wall, Meteor Swarm everyone, and then snarkily banter with Redcloak and Oona about how they somehow figured out the trick to the Gate.
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Dec 13, 2021 17:08
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:I actually think Haley isn't bluffing here. I genuinely think she doesn't care, or at least, has made the executive decision that Serini's assistance isn't worth the trouble any more. Haley definitely is not bluffing; everything she was saying were my own thoughts on the situation. Holding yourself hostage when the people you're threatening don't actually need you is a bad plan. If she gave herself a brainwipe, it doesn't change anything for the Order. Her assistance and information was a "nice to have" not "need to have". I suspect that Serini probably does have vital information, but Haley doesn't know she has it and Serini isn't about to volunteer anything...
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Dec 13, 2021 17:11
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She's going to dodge and the shark will knock over the cauldron and Belkar is going to get all of it so he loses his memories and personality and thus "dies", isn't he?
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Dec 13, 2021 17:45
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Poil posted:She's going to dodge and the shark will knock over the cauldron and Belkar is going to get all of it so he loses his memories and personality and thus "dies", isn't he? I hope that's not it because that would be a very anticlimactic close to one of the best character development arcs in this story.
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Dec 13, 2021 17:53
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SKULL.GIF posted:I hope that's not it because that would be a very anticlimactic close to one of the best character development arcs in this story. It's going to hit V and then they're going to learn teleportation schools instead and will Win The Game.
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Dec 13, 2021 17:58
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Random Stranger posted:Oh no! Razor is going to forget everything! He’s taking a dip and then will fly off thinking it’s a bird.
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Dec 13, 2021 18:35
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I still giggle at the Paladin mount pokeball gag.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:16
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MikeJF posted:That's true, but also things are at a critical stage enough that The Dark One might not have any choice here even if he disapproves of this course of action - cutting off Redcloak would lose him everything. That's an incredible idea for a fantasy piece. A god over a barrel, unable to disapprove of his mouthpiece and in that way at the mouthpiece's mercy.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:26
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It would certainly be poetic if the dark one is as sunk cost as redcloak
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Dec 13, 2021 19:33
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SuperKlaus posted:That's an incredible idea for a fantasy piece. A god over a barrel, unable to disapprove of his mouthpiece and in that way at the mouthpiece's mercy. Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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Dec 13, 2021 19:33
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TDO may not have many options. He's a brand new god, and completely isolated from the rest of the pantheons due to his icky purple color. With only goblinoids (and possibly only gobs and hobgobs?) worshipping him, his ability to affect the world is likely the weakest of all of the proper gods.
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Dec 13, 2021 19:47
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Terry Pratchett, Small Gods Will read then
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Dec 13, 2021 20:29
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Poil posted:She's going to dodge and the shark will knock over the cauldron and Belkar is going to get all of it so he loses his memories and personality and thus "dies", isn't he? And then the shark eats him.
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Dec 13, 2021 20:50
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Miko was rejected by her gods after she rejected the principle of law and killed her sworn feudal lord against the orders of her other superior, which may be the biggest combination of rulebreaks you can get, and Paladins are the special oath-swearing class whereas Clerics might have some extra leeway with their faith. Maybe even there could be something screwy with the Dark One's setup where just like how he's hard to contact (both for other gods and maybe even his own followers), he may have less fine control over who he lends his power to. Possibly Durkon's offer of making peace with the remaining Azurites (with also the added caveat of freeing Azurite slaves) might've seemed like pretty small potatoes to The Dark One. Also possibly The Dark One might not approve of Redcloak but Redcloak hasn't rested to refresh his spells so it hasn't kicked in yet.
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Dec 13, 2021 20:53
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Though it’s really odd that TDO apparently hasn’t directly communicated with his own high priest in quite a while, even just to give him a generic pep-talk, especially when they’re apparently right on the verge of finally getting to enact their master plan. The most Redcloak has gotten is just an incredibly vague second-hand command to not screw up, and not even anything more specific about what he should be doing to avoid that. I’m thinking that he’s been extremely busy with something in the celestial realm, to the point where he’s been rubberstamping Redcloak’s prayers. Like maybe he’s done some reassessing, and decided that threatening to unleash the Snarl on the other gods is too risky and started looking at alternatives for what to do with a Rift under his command… but he knows that telling his priest that there’s been a fundamental change of plans also risks him losing all faith in TDO after all of the sacrifices he’s made in the name of the original plan.
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Dec 13, 2021 21:01
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Maybe Redcloak’s just in an area with poor divine service? He’s gonna step out of the cave and get blasted with 72 new irritated Sendings from TDO
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Dec 13, 2021 21:04
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Regalingualius posted:Though it’s really odd that TDO apparently hasn’t directly communicated with his own high priest in quite a while, even just to give him a generic pep-talk, especially when they’re apparently right on the verge of finally getting to enact their master plan. The most Redcloak has gotten is just an incredibly vague second-hand command to not screw up, and not even anything more specific about what he should be doing to avoid that. Maybe the Dark One can't contact RedCloak directly. Spoilers from Start of Darkness: Possibly has something to do with the Crimson Mantle jumping Redcloak directly from Acolyte to High Priest. He's never had to cultivate the connection to the Dark One to access the power, so faith-wise, he's still at that Acolyte level... or less.
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Dec 13, 2021 21:09
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Belkar will realize the opportunity to fulfill his prophecy at no real physical cost to him and throw himself in front of the spilled amnesia potion. This attempt will fail, somehow, and he will die in the fight with Xykon.
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Dec 13, 2021 21:22
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Belkar will realize the opportunity to fulfill his prophecy at no real physical cost to him and throw himself in front of the spilled amnesia potion. This attempt will fail, somehow, and he will die in the fight with Xykon. belkar doesn't know about his prophecy.
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Dec 13, 2021 21:27
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I assume TDO has remained tight-lipped because he doesn’t want to take any risk of his plan leaking. “Don’t write it down” is rule one of any conspiracy, and given he’s acting basically alone against three whole pantheons of beings at least as powerful as he is then some paranoia is justified. (Yes we all know the *real* reason is that if the gods were to actually get off their thrones and start talking then there would be no story anymore)
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Dec 14, 2021 00:03
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I'm not sure I believe the idea that The Dark One absolutely needs Redcloak and wouldn't push back against him even if Redcloak was acting aginst what he wanted. Redcloak is by no means the first bearer of the Crimson Mantle. He's one of the highest level clerics we know of in the setting, so he's definitely a pawn TDO would be hestitant to give up, but it's not like Hel where he's so backed into a corner that even HAVING a high priest is a major achievement that he can't afford to disrupt. With regards to him talking to Redcloak, though, do we actually have any examples of the gods directly talking to people who are still alive? All of Durkon's chats with Thor were when he was dead, and Thor doesn't seem to have been able to contact him to ask "hey what do you mean the planet in the rifts" even though he and Odin were surprised by Durkon mentioning that. Jirix's message might well have been the only real chance The Dark One has had to communicate with Redcloak. Hel talks to Durkula, but he was undead, so maybe that's a loophole.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:40
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Didn't durkula have a chat with hel on like the second comic after the hel reveal? And there's like a bunch of varying detail level "talk to a deity" spells in the divination school.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:06
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The Dark One might not know about Durkon's offer, or other specifics of Redcloak's movements. We already know Thor wasn't watching Durkon's negotiations with Redcloak, because he had to hear all the details from Durkon via a Commune spell. The Dark One has even less reason to pay attention than Thor does, given that Redcloak's been stalled at the Gate defenses for some days now already.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:35
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Thor is bound by the agreement between the gods to not pay attention to anything Snarl-related. The Dark One is not.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:00
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So Serini has a child. And considering her age, that child is likely an adult. I wonder if it's a daughter who married a guy who's last name is Bitterleaf?
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Dec 14, 2021 03:49
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TDO not being able to contact Redcloak directly is a likely possibility, remember he had Jirix deliver a message on his behalf straight to Redcloak (even if the message was only "don't screw this up.")
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Dec 14, 2021 03:57
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Taciturn Tactician posted:I'm not sure I believe the idea that The Dark One absolutely needs Redcloak and wouldn't push back against him even if Redcloak was acting aginst what he wanted. Redcloak is by no means the first bearer of the Crimson Mantle. He's one of the highest level clerics we know of in the setting, so he's definitely a pawn TDO would be hestitant to give up, but it's not like Hel where he's so backed into a corner that even HAVING a high priest is a major achievement that he can't afford to disrupt. It's more the situation they're in - if he disapproves of him, say, nuking durkon and turning down the offer from Thor, depowering Redcloak means losing the one last gate and probably it'll be fortified ten times as much and also now the other gods are fully aware of The Plan. The Plan would be permanently lost.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:15
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If Serini gets splashed with/dunked into the memory acid vat, what are the odds she comes out mentally at the age she was in the Scribble era?
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Dec 14, 2021 04:25
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The amnesia potion seems to only affect like, a week's worth of memories or so, since she mentioned wanting to send the paladins back as though nothing ever happened. It would be weird if Serini fails her acrobatics check(?) here as an epic level rogue though
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Dec 14, 2021 04:36
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blizzardvizard posted:The amnesia potion seems to only affect like, a week's worth of memories or so, since she mentioned wanting to send the paladins back as though nothing ever happened. I think it depends on the dose. Or at least she's implying that it does. Nobody would care if dunking her only cost a week of memories.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:53
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ultrafilter posted:Thor is bound by the agreement between the gods to not pay attention to anything Snarl-related. The Dark One is not. Pretty sure the agreement is just that they can't tell their followers about anything Snarl-related, or lend any kind of aid (not even a "go this direction to find Girard's Gate" hint). But there's clearly something more than a verbal agreement there, otherwise the Dark One (who, as you said, has no active deals with the other gods) could've just sent Redcloak the secret to the Gate defenses after their first day fighting monsters.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:20
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