OSHA IV: NO SAFETY - SMOKING FIRST - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > OSHA IV: NO SAFETY - SMOKING FIRST

Archduke Frantz Fanon: Sep 7, 2004

Cartoon Man posted:

https://i.imgur.com/gTKfCyv.mp4

every time i see this what gets me lmao every time is the bear putting their paw on the door so gingerly like they are embarrassed with how hard they opened it

# ? Dec 13, 2021 01:58

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 15:09

vortmax: Sep 24, 2008; In meteorology, vorticity often refers to a measurement of the spin of horizontally flowing air about a vertical axis.

Cartoon Man posted:

https://i.imgur.com/gTKfCyv.mp4

Look for the bear necessities, the simple bear necessities

# ? Dec 13, 2021 05:23

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

that door experienced the right to bear arms

# ? Dec 13, 2021 05:42

Strabo4: Jun 1, 2007; Oh god, I'm 'sperging all
over this thread too!

Will their insurance cover a B&E, though?

# ? Dec 13, 2021 06:33

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

TotalLossBrain posted:

that door experienced the right to bear arms

Looks like the left to bear arms to me.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 09:07

Z the IVth: Jan 28, 2009; The trouble with your "expendable machines"; Fun Shoe

Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:

every time i see this what gets me lmao every time is the bear putting their paw on the door so gingerly like they are embarrassed with how hard they opened it

More like it's stopping the rebound smacking in the snout. The bear has done this before.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 09:24

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

Z the IVth posted:

More like it's stopping the rebound smacking in the snout. The bear has done this before.

So we got a dead bear walking scenario, Homo sapiens don't take kindly to other species operating doors.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 09:54

AzureSkys: Apr 27, 2003

Bearing down the house.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 10:15

Hollow Talk: Feb 2, 2014

SyNack Sassimov posted:

PiL mostly covered this, and went into the structural problems that result in this poo poo, but yeah the short answer is a car hits a pedestrian, that single driver is liable. Train hits a pedestrian, government is liable. This is America, land of suing everyone, so government says "nope we're not risking it, train goes 5 mph and rings the bell constantly so if a pedestrian does get hit hopefully we MIGHT be able to convince a judge the pedestrian was at fault". Which they probably won't unless the pedestrian's BAC is 0.4.

The actual issue I was trying to get at is that various large sums of money have in fact, at various points in history, managed to be spent on public transit here, but due to stupid easily fixable errors the resulting systems are absolute poo poo or, due to NIMBYism with BART, were prevented from achieving their stated goal. The ONLY way public transit is effective is if it goes very fast between the fixed endpoints, because the obvious major downside of transit is those fixed endpoints which are the actual destination of precisely no one riding them (unless they work as a janitor in the station or something). That last mile walk/Uber/bike ride makes transit irritating and uninviting, but if the transit itself is going twice as fast as a car would (and to be clear, this doesn't mean 160 miles an hour - if it goes 60 mph during commute times you've achieved "twice as fast"), it would be worth it. Don't get me wrong, even with full fencing the VTA wouldn't be going 60 mph through San Jose, but if it went even 20-30 it could manage to be a useful system. I don't know that I'm getting this across - you can RUN as fast as the train when it's going through that section. At that point, why even loving bother to build the transit? Why set aside the space, buy the trains, and pay people to run them when you can loving bike faster?

I was mostly skipping past the Tesla portion to spew one of my favorite rants about how poo poo California is at public transit, but yes, to be clear, gently caress Tesla, gently caress Elon, and gently caress anyone who thinks it's A-OK to use the public highways as a testing ground for lovely software that has already killed people and will kill more people.

piL posted:

My theory:

If (a citizen on the road) you kill maim a person while driving, much of it is your fault and the penal code and civil courts will punish you at little (relative) cost to the state. The public's call for safety against the government will be balanced by the public's desire for convenience and an equilibrium will be found.

If a tram driver kills a person while driving, it's the tram driver's fault, the (city, county, metro or state) government's fault, or both. The more you try to put the fault on tram drivers, the more the government has to pay tram drivers for the risk of doing the job to be worth the pay of the risk the driver is exposed to in doing their job, plus the extra required training and beauracracy necessary to demonstrate that the tram driver was suffiently trained, rested, and ready. The more risk the government bears, the greater incentive there is to reduce the exposure to the financial effects of that risk and/or the political effects of that risk.

The equilibrium of the first case will tend more towards convenience than equilibriums of the second case since only the government is assessing the risk and those risk assessments are what bias towards safety.

Slowing down the tram in regions like this naturally affects a less well-connected and well-funded portion of the population. Unless your public transit affects a sufficiently large portion of the population that it compensates for the power disparity (NYC), the pressure ends up being greater to hamstring mass transit over the roads, because a greater risk is exposed to the government and its elected officials. This is also what makes rebuilding usage so difficult--are you a white or Asian-american in the bay area? You're less likely to /have/ to use the train, likely make more money, so have a greater voice, and are more likely to vote. Note: this is not enough evidence to establish a causal link, so this is an assumption on my part. I also assume I'll find similar demographics in Los Angeles and San Diego metro usage.

You can't escape this relationship without having a sufficient number of the more wealthy portion of the population opt into the transit, but because they've already established methods where they don't have to, they won't until its consistently more reliable, socially acceptable, professionally acceptable, safe, and comfortable than the alternative of using their car. Even if you're on the lower end of the middle class spectrum, you're pressured to come to work in the same method your boss. If your boss is 2 hours late because of traffic, then its less of a problem that you're 2 hours late because of traffic. If you're 2 hours late because of the metro but they're on time because they drove, you're "showing insufficient initiative." I suspect this isn't even wholly the employer's fault--unless they work in transit or city government, they didn't get where they are based on expertise in these issues. Even if they are aware and welcoming to those making an effort to use mass transit, I suspect most American middle- to high-earners, in their cultural devotions to work experience feelings of unworthiness or inferiority by being late or, in their desire to out-compete their competitors, will punish themselves by trying to account more and more for this potential error by leaving earlier until they've added hours of unpaid labor to the workday and eventually burn out and choose the car over transit.

Edit: to bring this round back to OSHA, the same tension always exists between convenience/cost and safety, and where the cost lands when something goes wrong has a lot to do with whatever standards emerge. In fact, the function that OSHA serves is to help ensure the cost lands on the appropriate persons to affect the desired outcome.

Interesting, thanks for that perspective. That makes sense (for certain types of "sense"), I suppose? The reason I was a bit confused is because this seems perfectly normal to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3-IS2OdWzE

I mean, the tram isn't doing 50 km/h, sure, but neither are the cars; it just moves at a regular kind of speed.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 10:30

axolotl farmer: May 17, 2007; Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

Wheeeeeee!

# ? Dec 13, 2021 11:23

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

By popular demand posted:

So we got a dead bear walking scenario, Homo sapiens don't take kindly to other species operating doors.

Depends how good they are, unless of course, they fall for a honey trap

# ? Dec 13, 2021 11:36

Beve Stuscemi: Jun 6, 2001

axolotl farmer posted:

Wheeeeeee!

Where else can you pull sick wheelies AND get 3rd degree leg burns??

# ? Dec 13, 2021 14:16

Cat Hatter: Oct 24, 2006; Hatters gonna hat.

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Where else can you pull sick wheelies AND get 3rd degree leg burns??

...or get your pant leg caught in one of the chains or break an ankle on one of the pedals spinning around. Probably understeers too.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 15:52

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

sigher posted:

This is really god drat impressive.

howzat? what's the normal use for whatever they're spraying?

# ? Dec 13, 2021 15:54

AFewBricksShy: Jun 19, 2003; of a full load.

Mozi posted:

howzat? what's the normal use for whatever they're spraying?

I think it's bed liner.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 16:00

insta: Jan 28, 2009

Hollow Talk posted:

Interesting, thanks for that perspective. That makes sense (for certain types of "sense"), I suppose? The reason I was a bit confused is because this seems perfectly normal to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3-IS2OdWzE

I mean, the tram isn't doing 50 km/h, sure, but neither are the cars; it just moves at a regular kind of speed.

We got one of these in Kansas City a few years ago. Cars manage to T-bone it regularly -- not glance off it, not trying to beat it across an intersection, just haul rear end straight into the side of a 200 foot long tram.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 16:27

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

Hollow Talk posted:

I mean, the tram isn't doing 50 km/h, sure, but neither are the cars; it just moves at a regular kind of speed.

older european cities are 'pedestrian scaled' - they developed in a time when traveling by foot was the most common mode of transit, and even fancier travel like carriages was still mostly pedestrian scaled. this has a profound impact on the way streets are laid out, the way buildings and lots relate to the street and each other, the way streets tie together to form transportation networks, etc. this scaling is ambivalent to density, the same kind of organic growth patterns are seen in both dense urban cores as well as remote villages. all of this serves to generally keep the speed of vehicles slow, to encourage multi-modal transit use like pedestrianism and biking, and so on

american cities tend to be young enough to where they developed within the context of a predominantly automotive mode of travel. that is, american cities were commonly built with an assumption of car ownership in mind. this means the streets are straighter and wider, the buildings further apart from each other and the road, and so on - all of which serves to encourage faster vehicle speeds. long story short, americans love driving loving fast and things like 'bicyclists' and 'trams' are simply unfortunate hazards in path of the supreme car

# ? Dec 13, 2021 16:47

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

insta posted:

We got one of these in Kansas City a few years ago. Cars manage to T-bone it regularly -- not glance off it, not trying to beat it across an intersection, just haul rear end straight into the side of a 200 foot long tram.

That's because of really really poo poo drivers, but good luck trying to make people even just slightly less lovely drivers.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:02

Woozie66: Sep 8, 2009; I'll wait for the next era

Ever seen someone still with a spoon?

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7041099533681446149

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:14

Invalid Validation: Jan 13, 2008

Good way to destroy a drill press.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:30

Computer viking: May 30, 2011; Now with less breakage.

Assuming you press carefully, what's the risk to the drill? Weird sideways forces damaging the bearings?

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:36

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Invalid Validation posted:

Good way to generate YouTube views

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:37

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Computer viking posted:

Assuming you press carefully, what's the risk to the drill? Weird sideways forces damaging the bearings?

Yes, drill presses are built strictly for axial loads and this stunt should've been done with a vertical mill.

Incidentally this is also why drill presses usually don't weigh 3,000 lbs

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:41

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

american cities tend to be young enough to where they developed within the context of a predominantly automotive mode of travel.

Friendly reminder that you *had* trams in a bunch of place until car, gas and tires companies bought them up and ripped them out.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:42

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

evil_bunnY posted:

Friendly reminder that you *had* trams in a bunch of place until car, gas and tires companies bought them up and ripped them out.

this is a conspiracy theory, streetcars were doomed for structural reasons outside of big capitalism being the source of all evil

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:48

Whooping Crabs: Apr 13, 2010; Sorry for the derail but I fuckin love me some racoons

Woozie66 posted:

Ever seen someone still with a spoon?

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7041099533681446149

That's how that actress Reese does it.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 17:49

Dumb Sex-Parrot: Dec 25, 2020; Absurd Pox Term
Rad Buxom Strep

Retard Ox Bumps
Borax Dumpster

Dares Box Trump

Woozie66 posted:

Ever seen someone still with a spoon?

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7041099533681446149

Drills formed as spoons have been used since Roman times, though I guess you need to sharpen your spoon to get the best results.

e: the Mythbusters tried using a spoon drill when they made their wooden cannon
forging spoon drill bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2Iph606mM&t=164s
using spoon drill bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2Iph606mM&t=321s

Dumb Sex-Parrot fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 13, 2021

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:05

mkvltra: Nov 1, 2020

Woozie66 posted:

Ever seen someone still with a spoon?

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7041099533681446149

Might as well be taking bong rips of that treated wood

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:09

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

https://i.imgur.com/W6MYZPr.mp4

I don't know why imgur makes these so gently caress-off huge

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:21

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Powershift posted:

https://i.imgur.com/W6MYZPr.mp4

I don't know why imgur makes these so gently caress-off huge

I'm also thinking about something that starts with "I don't know why".

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:28

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Ola posted:

I'm also thinking about something that starts with "I don't know why".

I think the answer to yours is "because it was too wide to fit on the bridge"

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:40

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

https://i.imgur.com/wMTcnyB.mp4

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:58

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Powershift posted:

https://i.imgur.com/W6MYZPr.mp4

I don't know why imgur makes these so gently caress-off huge

Can't find a decent gif of the original Phil Silvers scene so here's the Simpsons homage.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 18:59

mrmcd: Feb 22, 2003; Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

Powershift posted:

https://i.imgur.com/W6MYZPr.mp4

I don't know why imgur makes these so gently caress-off huge

Literally watching this and when the guy rolls up the window I say out loud "Noooo. No no no no. No." and then the most obvious and expected thing happens.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:11

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:20

EasilyConfused: Nov 21, 2009; one strong toad

Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

this is a conspiracy theory, streetcars were doomed for structural reasons outside of big capitalism being the source of all evil

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise

Nuance? In my history? Get out of here!

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:22

LimaBiker: Dec 9, 2020

mobby_6kl posted:

Well trams usually do avoid going full blast through pedestrian areas like this, but it's not really a problem. If there are cars there anyway though anyway then it's kind of dumb

Trams do not belong in pedestrian areas. No, they really don't. They should be treated like trains, and really have to be run on tracks that are physically impossible to reach by pedestrians.
I used to use the intersection from the news paper article below, where pedestrians have to cross two tram tracks, as well as 4 car lanes. The tram tracks have their own bells and pedestrian traffic lights. During my time at the university there, i have seen the tram rails being cordoned off multiple times because yet another person got hit by a tram. It also happened twice in another place in Amsterdam (in Osdorp). Even when the trams run on their own little section, accidents happen comparatively often when pedestrians have to cross the tram rails.

They are 12 times more likely to get into an accident with 'serious consequences' than a car, and 57 times more likely to get into a deadly accident: https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/al-twee-doden-dit-jaar-hoe-onveilig-is-de-tram~bd1188e1/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
(Side note: the Parool newspaper is a vaguely leftist news paper that's usually very positive about anything public transport related, this is not just right wing propaganda)

Aside from that, the tram rail gutters make it easy for cyclists to get caught in them and fall. I do not have any numbers about how many hospitalisations because of those accidents there are, but i know many people who have fallen at least once cycling over a shared tram/car/cycle road, or when crossing them on an intersection.

The only reason why there are trams in Amsterdam, is because it was the best way of transporting people in the 1920s. I'm fine with keeping the existing infrastructure but gently caress any new tram system that doesn't run on separate tracks.

Trolley buses (or by now battery electric buses) have a shorter braking distance and can swerve if needed. Battery buses can also regeneratively brake, which the typical tram can't always do. For any new inner city public transport system, electric buses are the way to go.

LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Dec 13, 2021

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:28

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

There was a line in that article (thanks!) that I loved.

quote:

And paying for this maintenance got more and more difficult for one key reason: many contracts had permanently locked companies into a 5-cent fare, which wasn't indexed to inflation.

If you're a certain level of old folkie, you have heard "MTA".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wox2ZYEQpbI

Charlie is trapped on the MTA because he doesn't have the extra nickel to ride the Boston subway. (Which by then was ten cents.) The fascinating fact is that this was a campaign song, written in 1949 for Walter O'Brien, who came in last. In 1959, the Kingston Trio recorded it, and it became a hit. Nobody remembers Walter O'Brien, not least because the Kingston Trio changed his name.

Arsenic Lupin fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Dec 13, 2021

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:36

Computer viking: May 30, 2011; Now with less breakage.

Speaking of trams:

Oslo has had trams since they were horse drawn. They tried to abolish the system in the 60s, but ordering enough buses to replace them would be a massive expense - so they sort of held off for as long as the trams they already owned worked. Fortunately, the Swedish/Norwegian trams they had just bought proved to be basically bulletproof, so they still ran fine when the oil crisis hit and we decided to keep the trams. (Hell, they kept running into the 90s - with upgrades, some of them lasted forty years.)

Bergen, our second largest city, recently got a train/light rail system - and people keep colliding with them. It seems to be much more of a problem there than in Oslo, so presumably it just takes a while for people to get used to them?

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:41

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 15:09

Der Kyhe: Jun 25, 2008

Powershift posted:

https://i.imgur.com/W6MYZPr.mp4

I don't know why imgur makes these so gently caress-off huge

At which point did that look like something you can cross with a 4x4 se---- tract---- hot hatchback?

# ? Dec 13, 2021 19:42

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