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As an aside I think the second half of the story probably reads differently if you were raised in Buddhist circumstances, even if you yourself are not practicing, or particularly well-versed theologically. Both me and one other FC mate saw Ultima Thule's themes and thought, wow Meteion scratched the surface of the moral quandaries Buddha pondered and took the exact wrong lessons from it. Another FC mate, who was Christian, felt unequipped to really touch on the matter. He instead admitted this was quite a complicated moral situation. The truth of the matter is that suffering cannot be completely excised from life and attempting to chase that kind of temporal perfection, instead of learning how to accept life for what it is, only led those worlds to tragedy.
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Dec 13, 2021 23:49
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Jetrauben posted:Ok but consider: gently caress non-interference clauses based on maintaining false ignorance, building robust social systems and means of interaction is good actually. Look I just want to keep Ul'dah from getting into every nook and cranny.
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Dec 13, 2021 23:58
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Hellioning posted:I think it's Padjal bullshit? It's definitely Padjal bullshit. Xarbala posted:The truth of the matter is that suffering cannot be completely excised from life and attempting to chase that kind of temporal perfection, instead of learning how to accept life for what it is, only led those worlds to tragedy. Basically my reading on it. That, and, 'Nothing ever, ever, rewinds.'
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Dec 14, 2021 00:01
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Jetrauben posted:Ok but consider: gently caress non-interference clauses based on maintaining false ignorance, building robust social systems and means of interaction is good actually. Hm....No.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:01
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A non-interference clause around shards is essentially the Prime Directive, and I feel like the Scions have shown themselves as expressly anti-that over time; a lot of the game is about recognizing the cause of societal problems, and treating it as well as the symptoms. That said, I could see them changing their tune if they find out something like, say, the Eighth is a world of Garleans who can't use aether and would revere literal magic-users as gods, or something. Really challenge with the negatives of benevolent intervention (in a way a few Star Trek stories have done, actually) and see where they stand.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:16
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so can anyone confirm for me whether we see Nerva? Soldiers from both the 1st and the 3rd being on the same team leads me to conclude he got killed offscreen. Also, I loved the bit where the Duty Clear music played for Sadu.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:16
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Xarbala posted:As an aside I think the second half of the story probably reads differently if you were raised in Buddhist circumstances, even if you yourself are not practicing, or particularly well-versed theologically. Yeah I think a lot of fans in the West are going to struggle with understanding where the writers were coming from with some of that exactly because of not having that cultural/religious background. Not that Western thinkers didn't engage with the problem of suffering and the meaning of life and all of that, but the part where trying to shield yourself from suffering can be harmful is pretty foreign to most people here, except maybe in terms of defense mechanisms in psychology (though I think most people are pretty bad at understanding how avoidant behavior patterns are harmful from that perspective too).
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Dec 14, 2021 00:38
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Nodosaur posted:so can anyone confirm for me whether we see Nerva? Soldiers from both the 1st and the 3rd being on the same team leads me to conclude he got killed offscreen. I believe Nerva is, at this time, 'Unaccounted For.' Which could mean he was mowed down with a bunch of other dudes who had tentacles growing out of their faces, or he died before things got quite so exciting, or he could be somewhere nursing his wounds and pondering revenge or some other objective, considering his nation is a smoking crater full of ice and monsters.
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Dec 14, 2021 00:41
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Maybe I missed it, but why did we not see Kan-E-Senna in this expansion at all?
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Dec 14, 2021 01:11
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unpurposed posted:Maybe I missed it, but why did we not see Kan-E-Senna in this expansion at all? Tank role quests
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Dec 14, 2021 01:14
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Xarbala posted:The truth of the matter is that suffering cannot be completely excised from life and attempting to chase that kind of temporal perfection, instead of learning how to accept life for what it is, only led those worlds to tragedy. The way I read this, as well, was that people just by their nature need some kind of goal to strive for, with the implicit understanding that they may fail to attain it. My read of the planet that ended all forms of suffering was that they died out because they had achieved all that could be attained, and their people lost their vital spark because there was nothing left for them to work towards. I just don't get the takes where people are like "Oh, so Square is saying suffering is really good, actually?" or complaining that the Scions have to make sure they don't prevent too much sorrow in the world or it'll be bad. The point of Endwalker is not that each person needs at least 100 milli-funerals of sorrow each year, it's that suffering is unavoidable and learning to deal with it makes you stronger.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:20
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Magil Zeal posted:Tank role quests Ah, Melee DPS so makes sense I missed it.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:21
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I feel sorta bad for the Radz-at-Han alchemists since they were passingly familiar with emotion-energy and even gave it its own name - Akasa - and now the game is just going to call it Dynamis forever whenever it's mentioned.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:29
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Countblanc posted:I feel sorta bad for the Radz-at-Han alchemists since they were passingly familiar with emotion-energy and even gave it its own name - Akasa - and now the game is just going to call it Dynamis forever whenever it's mentioned. Way wilder is how instantaneously everyone started using the name the Ancients gave the planet.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:30
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From the player's viewpoint of course the WoL is going to win and Y'Shtola is just saying "Don't just use this now to bring us back" basically all-but-stating "this means use it later *hint* *hint*" In story they're all making a calculated gamble that their actions weaken the immortal embodiment of nihilistic despair just enough that the WoL can make it up to their nest and punch them, and if they do manage that and if they do win and if the WoL does survive the fight and if the blue bird of misery doesn't unmake this little corner of reality in their death throes then maybe they can be brought back.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:34
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Lord_Magmar posted:Way wilder is how instantaneously everyone started using the name the Ancients gave the planet. From a Watsonian perspective, I feel like a bunch of people felt it would be awkward to keep calling it Hydaelyn after recent revelations. So when the Scions got word there was another valid name for the planet, everyone in the know sent each other memos via link pearl. From a Doylist perspective, thank goodness because that would've been weird and possibly a little confusing.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:35
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Current locations of the Scions post-Endwalker (the quest): Alisaie and Alphinaud are with Julius in Tertium in Garlemald, helping out with the whole relief effort plan. It is as yet not going nearly as poorly as their initial sortie. Urianger and Thancred are chatting with Livingway in the Thaumazein in Labyrinthos. Their plan is... wandering aimlessly looking for ways to help out, really, but currently they'd like to make sure the moon is going to remain in safe hands. Estinien is at a table in Mehryde's Meyhane in Radz-at-Han, suspecting that Vrtra is buttering him up before asking him to undertake a difficult mission. He's also of a mind to continue aimlessly wandering looking to help, but he's Thavnair bound for the moment. Krile and G'raha Tia are in the Main Hall in the Baldesion Annex in Old Sharlayan. They're still planning on rebuilding the organization but for now that means taking on boring minor commissions and reorganizing. G'raha would love to break for adventure. Y'shtola is presently visiting Matoya's Cave in the Dravinian Hinterlands - only until she finds a book she wanted in the Great Gubal Library, but still. Of course she's just planning on general research with efforts towards establishing a more useful path to the First. Aenor and Ocher Boulder are near the Leatherworker's Guild in Gridania. Ocher wants to become more skillful that he might better match his brother, so he's just doing local guild work, while Aenor is currently parched without the Boulder Brothers together. Coultenet and Hoary Boulder are off for Corvos/Locus Amoenus. (Correct me if I'm wrong but that means they're not presently in any zone we have access to.) Clemence is in the Athenaeum Astrologicum in Ishgard, studying to be an Astrologian and being annoyed that Aenor won't stop writing her about how much she misses having both Boulders without a word of support for her studies. F'lahminn is still frequenting the upstairs cafe in Mor Dhona, though she's gotten an invitation to visit the Leveilleur Estate by Ameliance. Riol's taking a ship to either Meracydia or the New World. (Also not in the world? He mentions needing a ship but I haven't noticed him on the docks.) Alianne and Isildaure are hanging out in the Bokaisen Hot Springs in Kugane with Isildaure's Doman BFF Homei. Their plan is to explore more of Nagxia, guided by Atori (first introduced in Zadnor, I believe). V'mah Tia's still hanging around Rhalgr's Reach to help with the ongoing efforts in Ala Mhigo with Arenvald. Ephemie is in Camp Broken Glass in Garlemald; she's exchanging the Wandering Minstrel's songs for stories of the Garleans' heroes. Bluomwyda and Aergmhus are standing around in The Drowning Wench in Limsa Lominsa. Their plan is to check in on Aerslaent, ancestral home of the roegadyn, and take stock of the current state of affairs, of which there's been little information. Oh and, not to forget, the most powerful Scion, Tataru, is beginning her fashion empire in Old Sharlayan using the old HQs for storage/meeting places, all while still powering her wayward carbuncle through her massive reserves of aether. For the other explicit adventure hooks: There's underwater ruins in the Bounty (the general area including Thavnair), treasure islands past Blindfrost (Othard's north), the golden cities of the New World, sacred sites of "the forgotten people of the south seas isles" (this is the region Lalafell come from), Meracydia, the true identities of the Twelve (this will be the 24-man raid series of Endwalker), some civilizations in the other reflections (we still haven't been to the 4th, 8th, 9th, or 11th shards of the ones still unjoined), and Pandæmonium (this will be the 8-man raid series/savages of Endwalker). There's still remnants of the Garlean Legions and the potential for Neo-Garlemald, too. We may or may not end up everywhere listed, but that's probably enough to work with for a few expansions at any rate. I'm guessing the leads directly in this expansion's new zones will be followed up first, of course, since they can keep using them for a while  Oh, and this yahoo from the Melee Role Quest is probably also going to be involved in the future, what with the explicit line of "oh by the way don't think it's weird if I pretend I never met you later" 
Hogama fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 01:35
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Slight correction The Twelve is the 24 man raid series. The 8 man raids are likely in Elpis with Elidibus and Lahabrea as special guest stars.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:Slight correction The Twelve is the 24 man raid series. The 8 man raids are likely in Elpis with Elidibus and Lahabrea as special guest stars.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:40
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Hogama posted:For the other explicit adventure hooks: There's also still the hook from the end of the ShB role quests.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:42
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We've got a general idea of what the 8 and 24 man raid series will be this time, but we still have no idea what the trial series will be (Four Lords, Weapon, etc). Before Endwalker was released, I was thinking it might be some sort of Four Fiends of the Elements thing, but with the Final Days and primals in general put to rest, it's hard to say what it could be. Maybe more Omicron stuff? Or remnants of other civilizations in the Dead Ends?
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Dec 14, 2021 01:48
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four lords shows us very well that you don't have to be primal-adjacent to be a trial series, and there's no 6.3 msq trial so fiends slot in perfectly with no awkward filler steps like genbu as a dungeon boss or the sapphire weapon solo duty
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Dec 14, 2021 01:50
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Man let's hope they kick Neo-Garlemald far, far, far down the road (and maybe have it end with someone trying to drop the moon on the Source) Also, someone should do a wellness check on Azdaja.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:55
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I wouldn't mind a Garlean Republic reconstruction side quest. Also have we got a confirmed trial series yet? Because whatever got out of Zot seems like a good candidate for at least a boss fight.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:16
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TGLT posted:I wouldn't mind a Garlean Republic reconstruction side quest. that's the special fate in thavnair for the elephant suit
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Dec 14, 2021 02:16
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Hogama posted:Current locations of the Scions post-Endwalker (the quest): There's also a Scion in the Waking Sands who says that she went back there out of habit and wonders if you did too.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:16
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Mister Olympus posted:that's the special fate in thavnair for the elephant suit I can not tell if this is a joke or legit
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Dec 14, 2021 02:19
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TGLT posted:I can not tell if this is a joke or legit It is not a joke.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:21
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this loving game
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Dec 14, 2021 02:22
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Zeruel posted:hot take the WoL shoulda died. perfect capstone to a 8-11 year saga.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:24
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MechaX posted:Man let's hope they kick Neo-Garlemald far, far, far down the road (and maybe have it end with someone trying to drop the moon on the Source) Maybe that's what Estinien is going to be doing soon
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Dec 14, 2021 02:24
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You know it's fitting the raid series will be about the Twelve we've beat up everyone else's gods, might as well beat up our own
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Dec 14, 2021 02:25
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Important: just saw someone with an Ea minion
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Dec 14, 2021 02:28
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Draxion posted:Maybe that's what Estinien is going to be doing soon This seems likely, every other dragon responded to Vrtra’s request including Midgardsormr (who I kind of wish came with us to Ultima Thule for obvious reasons). Something is definitely going on with the last of the first brood.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:32
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Yeah that's definitely setup for future story. Could well be that 7.0 is gonna take us to Meracydia due to Estinien and Vrtra's investigation.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:37
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OddObserver posted:Important: just saw someone with an Ea minion Get rank 3 with the Ultima Thule shared fates and you can have your own Ea minion!
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Dec 14, 2021 02:54
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was just telling a friend I'm not grinding fates but here I am
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Dec 14, 2021 02:57
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one of the blu spells mentions there's possibly dragons in the new world so it's possible azdaja might be there to meet them
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Dec 14, 2021 02:58
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Regy Rusty posted:Yeah that's definitely setup for future story. Could well be that 7.0 is gonna take us to Meracydia due to Estinien and Vrtra's investigation. This is actually reminding me of something I had first thought of earlier on: What happened with Tiamat? In 5.5 we cure her tempering and she's definitely fine with helping us considering her presence in Pagal'than, but she's utterly missing without a single reference as far as I can tell in the entirety of EW. Did I miss something from late ShB talking about where she's off to?
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Dec 14, 2021 03:24
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Meiteron posted:This is actually reminding me of something I had first thought of earlier on: She went to Meracydia herself after 5.5 to find out what became of her family in her centuries of imprisonment. I'm sure we'll catch up with her as well eventually.
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Dec 14, 2021 03:33
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