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Frida Call Me posted:nah, it's simply that wow broke everyone's brains and made them come up with unbelievably stupid expectations for how an MMO should play, and they're trying to project those expectations onto FFXIV. those projections aren't fitting, so they just come up with various exceptionally weak reasons for "FFXIV bad". I don't think it's WoW they're trying to relate FFXIV too, it's the old-fashioned Everquest stuff. FrostyPox posted:Plot is important but significant portions of it are told in books, not in game, IIRC. I haven't played in ages so I don't really remember tbh Don't worry half the time the writers ignore what is in the books anyway.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:16
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All i know is when I wnet back to try shadowlands, I made a new character and they were like "ok soldier, you're very important so you're going to accompany Jaina on her diplomatic mission to Kul Tiras." To this day I am only vaguely aware of who Jaina is and what Kul Tiras is. FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 01:20
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FrostyPox posted:All i know is when I wnet back to try shadowlands, I made a new character and they were like "ok soldier, you're very important so you're going tonaccomapny Jaina on her diplomatic mission to Kul Tiras." Clearly you should have been playing since Warcraft 2.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:24
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Hellioning posted:I don't think it's WoW they're trying to relate FFXIV too, it's the old-fashioned Everquest stuff. I haven't even played Everquest! I guess my ideal MMO experience is that if a significant amount of my playtime is getting from point A to B, I want that experience also to be filled with me hacking apart a jillion dudes like it's Diablo/PoE/etc. Make the actual experience of travel fun by making my sprint button be a charge that mulches 30 dudes in my path.
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Dec 14, 2021 01:42
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Getting from point A to be B should be fraught with danger, and when you get to B you should ideally have a store of supplies because you're going to be camping there for the next few weeks while you get a couple levels, because going back home is just as dangerous and takes quite some time.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:02
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bewilderment posted:I haven't even played Everquest! Or like, chance at a rare mob with cool loot, or a random portal to a unique dungeon, or a treasure chest with more than garbage vendor stuff. Popular MMOs have been pruned down to be loot corridor dungeons and a super lame open world and it honestly just sucks.
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Dec 14, 2021 02:23
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Getting from point A to point B in guild wars 2 seemed fun because you were always discovering new events and points of interest and puzzles. There was no incentive to grinding random jobs along the way but I remember various open world group quests I blundered into more clearly than the base game plot.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:13
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GW2 does events really, really well. I love the random open world quest where you get to turn into a wolf and play with puppies. GW2 has the best seasonal events too. Everyone else should look at what GW2 does for holiday events and copy their awesomeness.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:36
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Anno posted:Getting from point A to be B should be fraught with danger, and when you get to B you should ideally have a store of supplies because you're going to be camping there for the next few weeks while you get a couple levels, because going back home is just as dangerous and takes quite some time. No I'd rather not have my game be a second job thanks. It's also extremely limiting in terms of what the scope of an MMO can be - "gathering supplies for a trip" makes sense in the context of 'faux-medieval/Renaissance adventurer' but less so in the case of space explorer, or wuxia hero, or superhero, or whatnot. Everything people are saying makes it seem like I should really get back into Guild Wars 2 but I can't quite seem to muster the effort. I was really hyped for it back when it released and it actually met a lot of my expansions but the repetitive crafting (when the early previews said "you can level a crafter while only ever crafting things you need to use) and the awful writing in the base story were a real drag. Also I was an idiot who created my character in the wrong servers and so I dealt with a lot of lag. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 04:50
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After much pondering I came to the conclusion that FF14 is a visual play. Instead of going for the visual novel route or the cinematic movie experience route they went for the theatre play, and the dungeons are audience participation, and this metaphor sucks.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:34
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I just think that if you want to pad out the time between cutscenes, 5 minutes of combat and 1 minute of running would be better than 1 minute of combat and 5 minutes of running.
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Dec 14, 2021 07:42
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Elentor posted:After much pondering I came to the conclusion that FF14 is a visual play. Instead of going for the visual novel route or the cinematic movie experience route they went for the theatre play, and the dungeons are audience participation, and this metaphor sucks. yeah, that's actual a good comparison. visual play. but otoh, that's true for all video games.
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Dec 14, 2021 11:11
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30.5 Days posted:I just think that if you want to pad out the time between cutscenes, 5 minutes of combat and 1 minute of running would be better than 1 minute of combat and 5 minutes of running. The problem with this is that you have to design interesting encounters in the overworld then, otherwise you're just beating up a target dummy for 5 minutes which is what most encounters with generic mobs wandering around a zone amounts to in any MMO. It'd get pretty tiresome quickly
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Dec 14, 2021 11:42
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i feel like one of my biggest pain points for old mmos is combat fatigue even when the combat is solid in its own way, I even felt that way with some of the ending areas back in base GW2, and a balance like that would make it unbearable. for me the times where you go from point A to B are much-needed breaks that provide time to step back and think about what's happening and take in the scenery surrounding me.
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Dec 14, 2021 11:50
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The loving anchor grapple zombies every five feet in Orr made me want to throw my monitor out the window
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Dec 14, 2021 12:10
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bewilderment posted:No I'd rather not have my game be a second job thanks. I was being a bit flippant, but it’s not about the game being a second job, it’s about the world feeling impactful and there being actual stakes to something. MMOs these days have these massive, beautifully crafted worlds that ultimately feel very lifeless because nothing interesting or impactful to the game really happens in them vs. happening off in instances. There are already unlimited MMOs that aren’t like this, so I think it’d be cool if there was more than like three PvP-focused games that were.
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Dec 14, 2021 12:51
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Making getting from point A to point B engaging is something GW2 legitimately does pretty well, especially after Path of Fire introduced mounts. The idea to make each mount have its own movement abilities that can get you past obstacles other mounts can't is pretty smart. It's the kind of game where even if you're running past all the enemies and events on the way, the act of moving around on your mount is fun in and of itself because mounts are more than just "move faster" buffs. They actually all handle differently, turn differently, have different abilities to jump or do a special attack to initiate combat, it's really cool.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:23
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Imo games should just be fun. It’s that easy.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:26
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Orange DeviI posted:Imo games should just be fun. It’s that easy. Fun games don’t make enough money they should be jobs, it should be arduous getting there, doing things, and difficult to stop
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Dec 14, 2021 14:50
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jokes posted:Fun games don’t make enough money they should be jobs, it should be arduous getting there, doing things, and difficult to stop You got really upset at people commenting on catgirl raves because to each their own but also keep posting how other people find the wrong things fun lol
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Dec 14, 2021 14:55
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i feel like what most people are talking about here is 'i wish i was 10.' like getting from point a to point b even in like, ff11 or vanilla everquest was never really fraught with danger once you knew what to do, the issue was just that nobody knew what to do because they were 10.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:55
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jokes posted:Fun games don’t make enough money they should be jobs, it should be arduous getting there, doing things, and difficult to stop And this is of course the problem, AAA games must be akin to gambling, one more hit, chase the rabbit, always have some minor upgrade down the line. Indy games are akin to smaller stuff that is fun, but fun only lasts so long. And due to lack of Casino logic, never last that long. And the market has nothing in the middle anymore, your a casino or Indy now a days.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:57
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PyRosflam posted:And this is of course the problem, AAA games must be akin to gambling, one more hit, chase the rabbit, always have some minor upgrade down the line.
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Dec 14, 2021 14:58
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Orange DeviI posted:You got really upset at people commenting on catgirl raves because to each their own but also keep posting how other people find the wrong things fun lol MMOs are a land of contrasts
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Dec 14, 2021 15:00
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Endorph posted:i feel like what most people are talking about here is 'i wish i was 10.' like getting from point a to point b even in like, ff11 or vanilla everquest was never really fraught with danger once you knew what to do, the issue was just that nobody knew what to do because they were 10. There's some truth to this but from my recent stint on P99 there were a bunch of times where it was dangerous going from A to B even when I knew what the dangers were. I can't believe EQ is still putting out expansions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZsr689mN48 This is the 28th expansion.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:09
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Endorph posted:i feel like what most people are talking about here is 'i wish i was 10.' like getting from point a to point b even in like, ff11 or vanilla everquest was never really fraught with danger once you knew what to do, the issue was just that nobody knew what to do because they were 10. This is absolutely true. I got back into Runescape a few years ago after it consuming my life as a kid (The original! none of this "oldschool" poo poo they call runescape 2 now...drat I'm old) and realizing things that I remember being epic grand undertakings actually being extremely quick and easy now that I have the brain of an adult and know what to do was a shock to be sure. I totally get wanting to recapture that magic again but it's just never going to happen tbh. Even if some theroetical mmo came out that DID somehow have stuff like this, it'd be optimized within a week and the magic would vanish.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:11
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Endorph posted:i feel like what most people are talking about here is 'i wish i was 10.' like getting from point a to point b even in like, ff11 or vanilla everquest was never really fraught with danger once you knew what to do, the issue was just that nobody knew what to do because they were 10. Learning what to do to not get into trouble was the satisfying part, though. When you were new to a zone it took a while to learn where the dangers were, how things pathed, where the harder named monsters could spawn. Eventually yeah you got used to it and it wasn’t as dangerous but in doing so you developed a relationship with the zone that’s hard to replicate these days. And even then you still had weird stuff that could happen, especially in dungeons. And yes a lot of this is nostalgia for a time that can’t happen again. But someone could at least try to get half way there! When I try playing games like EVE or Albion I get a taste of stuff like this, but I can’t really click with the rest of their gameplay for whatever reason. Anno fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 15:15
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Endorph posted:i feel like what most people are talking about here is 'i wish i was 10.' like getting from point a to point b even in like, ff11 or vanilla everquest was never really fraught with danger once you knew what to do, the issue was just that nobody knew what to do because they were 10. I don't have that level of nostalgia because outside of, like, Runescape where I didn't really know how to progress and just wandered aimlessly my first MMO was actually Guild Wars 1 which is a totally different paradigm. Getting from place to place in GW1 is an experience because it's designed to be, each zone is basically its own dungeon that you're expected to tackle with a full party to help you (even if that may be mostly NPCs). But a lot of the things people early in the thread seem to want is already covered by existing games. A social network? A sandbox? Meaningful crafting and gathering to get places? That's crafty-survival games. Those people want ARK and Valheim and so on.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:29
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It is definitely not nostalgia for me. I actually stopped myself from playing Asherons Call in 2016 because I didn’t want to taint some of my favorite memories of gaming in my youth with a game that was probably worse now, or I was older, or whatever. Eventually I caved and the game was still absolutely fun for all of the same reasons it ever was. It’s not that I wish I was 10, I wish MMOs didn’t suck now. A lot of the comments about GW2 are spot on. Traveling in that game is fun because your mode of travel is fun, there’s always cool stuff that pops up that you want to do on the way to where you’re going. That is the thing most games miss. The engagement along travel should be things you want to do, not forced combat of dumb mobs for no reason.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:31
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Honestly the problem is that people think someone’s (or the internet’s) favorite MMO or the “best MMO” is supposed to be a one-stop shop. No reason to play other games, the MMO will have meaningful crafting, character customization, unending adventure and exploration, PVP content that is both balanced and fun, engaging and bug-free PvE content, a thriving and good community, a combat system that is blah blah blah Everyone should see what WoW (and a lot of older MMOs) was going for, to be The Only Game You Play, and run in the opposite direction. No single game should monopolize your attention, that’s very limiting and unfortunate. You should play whatever games you want to play and jump ship the minute you stop having fun. MMOs are just the ones that ask for the largest time commitment, so people think MMOs should thus be all-encompassing and then are eternally disappointed.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:38
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jokes posted:No single game should monopolize your attention, that’s very limiting and unfortunate. I only want to play one game at a time, though. I do jump ship the very nanosecond that game stops being fun, but I also have zero interest in playing more than one or two games at a time. I should have gotten into chess.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:42
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Elentor posted:I only want to play one game at a time, though. I do jump ship the very nanosecond that game stops being fun, but I also have zero interest in playing more than one or two games at a time. I should have gotten into chess. This is where I’m at. I have a cycle of 3-4 games that fill a niche that one game used to. New World checks a lot of boxes for what I am looking for in a newer MMO, I’m really bummed the launch and management has been so monumentally bad.
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Dec 14, 2021 15:45
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Playing only one game? I bet y’all drink Soylent too.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:09
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Frankly I think it's ridiculous that people are only playing one MMO at a time. It's 2021, folks! Get a second monitor and play FFXIV and New World at the same time or whatever. Double the grinding! Just switch your focus to whichever one is more gratifying in the moment. 
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Dec 14, 2021 16:10
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When you guys say “play one game at a time” I assumed you meant that you’d only play one game over a given period of time and not that you’d think people are advocating literally playing two video games at the same time, presumably on different screens. Who would play two games at the same time? If I spent a month only playing FF14 that would be a pretty boring month.
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Dec 14, 2021 16:15
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jokes posted:If I spent a month only playing FF14 that would be a pretty boring month. jokes posted:MMOs are a land of contrasts
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Dec 14, 2021 16:16
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Fools I have at least 5 phone emulators up at any one time trying to roll on the gachas for my perfect whateverthefuckphonegamescallit
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Dec 14, 2021 16:42
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i just started ffxiv, bought it the day endwalker came out unknowingly, but i haven't had too many issues getting into the servers. i'm really enjoying the gamealthough i do notice the on rails experience of ffxiv and i think that's fine for a lot of folks - the story is actually really good! i'm trying it out after feeling like new world left me with nothing to do and no direction at lv 60. i've been playing mmos for 20+ years and i think the thing that i would really like to see is one that blends a team based missions/pve "dungeons" system with some advancement and an open player driven world. valheim was my 2021 sleeper hit and i think there are some really interesting implications from a game like that. i also really like the idea eve has around it's economy and pvp. some of my favorite experiences in eve are trying to run resources as an independent newbie and trying to figure out the gate campers schedules, preparing for the runs to cash out and eventually getting better ships. something that combines these experiences could be really fun. like i imagine dropping into the game with your group or solo and having a procedurally generated world where you don't really know who else is out there or what they've built. you could incentivize things like cooperation in building, gathering, bounty hunting so people have a reason to gather and have safety in numbers, but also allow for open world pvp. there's probably something out there close to this? i don't really know, i've looked into minecraft mmo mods and they seem to tick some of the boxes, but i'm not sure if there are any other options or upcoming projects that do something like that. albion also has a lot of these things, but it feels a little too much like a mobile game for me to really get into the depth. the dungeons/areas seem really repetitive.
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Dec 14, 2021 17:45
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like how cool would it be for a guild to strip mine a mountain for stone and iron to build a castle and armaments as they set up shop near some lair or dungeons, but they have to fortify themselves and their keep before doing so, but you could come by in six months and no ones out there anymore because they scouted something of interest out in a nearby desert and moved camp
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Dec 14, 2021 18:09
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gently caress Man posted:like how cool would it be for a guild to strip mine a mountain for stone and iron to build a castle and armaments as they set up shop near some lair or dungeons, but they have to fortify themselves and their keep before doing so, but you could come by in six months and no ones out there anymore because they scouted something of interest out in a nearby desert and moved camp
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Dec 14, 2021 18:20
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