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Serephina posted:Nifty, thanks There was a guy a couple of pages back talking about Chosen getting shot to death before ever engaging in combat, but it was pretty obvious that was someone that has never actually played a Chaos army. A "normal" Chaos army tends to have the core of the army sort of holding in place, with hellcannons screened by formations of Chosen or warriors. The hellcannons force the enemy to engage in almost all circumstances. You can even see this when playing against Chaos armies controlled by the AI. It's like fighting Cygors, you can't really just sit back and shoot it out from afar with them, or you suffer unreasonable casualties. Even as a player, you typically have to do SOMETHING to stop the hellcannons. Fortunately, AI Chaos just sends their army walking after you, so you can land your flyers or flankers on their hellcannons to disable them. When actually playing Chaos, you just park a legion of Chosen in formation around them. Shields in the front, halberds on the sides, maybe a great axe or two in the back in case they send in a flyer. Most of what you actually do when commanding a Chaos army is managing your fast attackers. You've got flying heroes, surprisingly strong fast cavalry, cheap and expendable dogs, flying monsters, monstrous cavalry, monstrous... monsters (shaggoths). So you prioritize who your hellcannons are shooting, first. This is usually ranged units, but if your enemy is fielding infantry that can go toe-to-toe with Chosen, then you might focus on that instead. Then you use your fast attackers to handle the other elements of their army. For example, say you are fighting a late game dark elf stack. They've got a powerful flying lord, maybe a dragon, a couple of hydras or whatever, a handful of black guard or executioners, a bunch of darkshards and bolt throwers. The lord and dragon will land on your hellcannons, countered by your great axes and your own lord. Your hellcannons will take a shot or two at their infantry, then swap to the ranged. Your flying heroes will land on their artillery and quickly destroy them. The mages can drop some magic on the way. Your fast attackers rush and menace their ranged, which then get the focus of the hellcannons as the melee lines close. You redirect your great axes and lord once their flyers are down. You redirect your heroes once their artillery are down. If you think about what that middle ground where their ranged units exist looks like, Chaos knights wouldn't be a bad option. They could roll in and destroy anything there easily. But the Chosen don't need them as a hammer, and using horsemasters instead also means you don't have to engage in melee if you don't want to (say that instead you want to blast the area with magic and/or your hellcannons). Plus, your lord and heroes can converge on that area and safely operate even while it is being blasted with magic and/or hellcannons. If you've committed your expensive, slow Chaos knights to that battleground, you'll hesitate to nuke it with your artillery. And if you've got horsemasters lingering on the outskirts, they can intercept and wipe out runners.
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Dec 14, 2021 03:24
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Chaos is great you can just mash your army into the enemy with no regard for what you're matching up against what.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:32
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Chaos is great you can just mash your army into the enemy with no regard for what you're matching up against what. As opposed to every other faction where you’re custom tailoring your army to the enemy? Or, the same as every other faction, where you use what you have to the best advantage?
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Dec 14, 2021 04:35
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Well I mean with other armies I might make sure that the anti-infantry guys are in a spot to do the most damage, that my cavalry aren't fighting spears, etc., but with Chaos armies I often literally just mash them in to the enemy without looking at what the units are fighting and still win with very little micro. Sometimes I just l select the whole formation and order them to march through the enemy. It's fun.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:44
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Well I mean with other armies I might make sure that the anti-infantry guys are in a spot to do the most damage, that my cavalry aren't fighting spears, etc., but with Chaos armies I often literally just mash them in to the enemy without looking at what the units are fighting and still win with very little micro. Sometimes I just l select the whole formation and order them to march through the enemy. It's fun. Oh yeah, I do this with my Dark Elf armies (nothin but executioners), my High Elf armies (Phoenix guards! Side to side stretched across the map), my Empire armies (greatswords~~!), my Bret armies (pick and choose, doesn't matter, knights), my Norscan armies (Champions, they're the same as Chosen), really any faction you want. Just mash em! Edit: is this the same dude that was whining about his Chosen getting shot up every fight and having to wait four turns between fights for his army to recover? litany of gulps fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 04:50
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Chaos without hellcannons kinda sucks With them? Hello hello hello
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Dec 14, 2021 04:54
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really can't wait to see how stompy ogre doomstacks get just the biggest, fattest, heavily armored boys and a bunch of thunder tusks and I put them in 1 group, lock and "a click", zoom in to watch engagements
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Dec 14, 2021 04:54
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Yeah, it's a little like an ultra-heavy version of an Empire artillery army. Short of a Skaven nuke, there's not much that pounds harder than Hellcannons. It isn't really an option to just tank it because they just do far too much damage. It might just be that I have a better handle on the game mechanics now, but I like them a lot more. A big immovable block with fast skirmish cavalry is a lot of fun to play, as opposed to my normal Grail forces. And it feels a lot better than ranged armies too.
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Dec 14, 2021 04:57
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Its still wild to me that they made hellcannons straight-up vanilla artillery, their design on the tabletop was a lot classier.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:01
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litany of gulps posted:Oh yeah, I do this with my Dark Elf armies (nothin but executioners), my High Elf armies (Phoenix guards! Side to side stretched across the map), my Empire armies (greatswords~~!), my Bret armies (pick and choose, doesn't matter, knights), my Norscan armies (Champions, they're the same as Chosen), really any faction you want. Just mash em! Dunno why you're being so hostile but I didn't complain about anything. I genuinely like Chaos and I like smashing chaos warriors into stuff. It's the only campaign I've ever beat on legendary.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:09
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Jamwad Hilder posted:Dunno why you're being so hostile but I didn't complain about anything. I genuinely like Chaos and I like smashing chaos warriors into stuff. It's the only campaign I've ever beat on legendary. quote:There was a guy a couple of pages back talking about Chosen getting shot to death before ever engaging in combat, but it was pretty obvious that was someone that has never actually played a Chaos army. I'm pretty sure person was referencing whoever is mentioned in this quote
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Dec 14, 2021 05:13
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The Iron Rose posted:chosen are some of the worst units in the game imo Found it
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Dec 14, 2021 05:16
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What's the worst infantry in the game? Bret Peasant mobs? I need to know how many models a single Chosen can murder, what's the best way of going about this
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Dec 14, 2021 05:18
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Dr Christmas posted:Some theorycrafting about our 9th LL. They probably won't be one of the new races, and probably won't be their own whole new race because otherwise they'd be advertised as something more than a 9th LL. Todbringer is my bet
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Dec 14, 2021 05:20
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:What's the worst infantry in the game? Bret Peasant mobs? I need to know how many models a single Chosen can murder, what's the best way of going about this I dont know the stats but peasant mobs, skavenslaves, and zombies are prime contenders.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:24
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:What's the worst infantry in the game? Bret Peasant mobs? I need to know how many models a single Chosen can murder, what's the best way of going about this Stormvermin easily Hella expensive, completely useless on the battlefield, it is literally more optimal to bring slave slaves because at least the game doesn’t think they are worth more balance of power then they can actually dish out in return.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:32
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Cat Army 
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AnEdgelord posted:I dont know the stats but peasant mobs, skavenslaves, and zombies are prime contenders. all of those units are great because they’re dirt cheap Bret peasant mobs - I can’t say I’d ever recruit them versus more archers instead. But zombies and skavenslaves are great because they’re both effectively free, they eat missiles, and hold enemies back while your ranged units/magic/single entities dish out damage. Skavenslaves/clan rats are much better as a plague priest summon than a unit in your army mind.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:33
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:I haven't played TT, is this generally a theme to flying (outside monster/dragon)? My guess is because mobility is so meaningful in a video game, they've tweaked a lot of air to be "hold this in place" or "distract their shooters" units, rather than direct engagers. Generally yeah for the tabletop as well, having the Fly rule was a rare trait and usually reserved for units in the Special and Rare unit categories, so you could only take a certain maximum amount of them per army (50% and 25% of your points allowance, respectively). Even cheap chaff/harassment units like Harpies and Furies were in Special due to Fly's strengths mobility wise.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:36
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The Iron Rose posted:Stormvermin easily I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that I meant weakest?
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Dec 14, 2021 05:41
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You can buff the absolute poo poo out of peasant mobs. Skaebslaves are pretty much always poo poo.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:49
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:I haven't played TT, is this generally a theme to flying (outside monster/dragon)? My guess is because mobility is so meaningful in a video game, they've tweaked a lot of air to be "hold this in place" or "distract their shooters" units, rather than direct engagers. I'll add on to the above; outside of characters&dragons, most things that had Fly tended to be fragile stuff at high prices; charging directly into melee units was a no-no. The roles where identical to the video game in that they tried to hunt war machines or change flanks without getting shot up too much.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:53
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Yeah the question is "what is the weakest unit I can run into chosen to test their ability chew through infantry" not "what unit has the worst cost to ability ratio" in which case one of the three I mentioned would make for a good taget dummy.
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Dec 14, 2021 05:53
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Depth Guard always feel like a unit that feels awful from an investment-to-performance kinda view. Even if they do some damage, they feel like they get mangled hard in any fight (and not just from Auto-Resolve either). Like idk, feels like a heavy armour unit with The Hunger should be able to take a punch.
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Dec 14, 2021 06:02
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It's Zombies if you want the absolute worst stats in the game, or Skavenslaves if you want nearly as bad but with a larger unit size. Zombies come with the added bonus of not running away from your test after a few seconds of combat too, though you will start losing them to crumbling.
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Dec 14, 2021 06:05
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SteelMentor posted:Depth Guard always feel like a unit that feels awful from an investment-to-performance kinda view. Even if they do some damage, they feel like they get mangled hard in any fight (and not just from Auto-Resolve either). Like idk, feels like a heavy armour unit with The Hunger should be able to take a punch. depth guard are a really interesting unit design because they have excellent stats but a model count and hp that causes them to lose badly if they are outnumbered. if you stack them on zombies they can go all day. they're almost like teeny little trolls
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Dec 14, 2021 06:14
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Who would win, skavenslaves, or Eastern Infantry from Rome 1
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Dec 14, 2021 06:52
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All the Eastern Infantry are dead, but the skavenslaves rout and are somehow killed as they flee anyway.
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Dec 14, 2021 07:03
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For the children who haven't been playing these things for 20 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1vqKAiXJrg
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Dec 14, 2021 07:06
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litany of gulps posted:Oh yeah, I do this with my Dark Elf armies (nothin but executioners), my High Elf armies (Phoenix guards! Side to side stretched across the map), my Empire armies (greatswords~~!), my Bret armies (pick and choose, doesn't matter, knights), my Norscan armies (Champions, they're the same as Chosen), really any faction you want. Just mash em! settle down, beavis
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Dec 14, 2021 09:20
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Kazzah posted:For the children who haven't been playing these things for 20 years: LOL this one is good too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-AQulL7EkQ
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Dec 14, 2021 10:33
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As a fun haver who plays with mods, I have to custom tailor my armies against everything I fight. Army caps own.
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Dec 14, 2021 10:55
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For my Chaos game, I used this guide for first few turns: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/181921/sigvald-is-the-best-chaos-legendary-lord-using-him-makes-legendary-chaos-boringly-easy While the faction is pretty dated at this point, you can still march your 100-armor axe-swinging boys against Kislevites armed with kitchen knives tied to sticks. Sigvald is also a kickass lord with lots of character. All the swagger of Chaos without the angst. I would have loved to be in the studio when they recorded his battle speech: https://youtu.be/kVE-mncKFsA
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Dec 14, 2021 15:21
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The big difference is since that guide, Archaeon gives a huge +3% damage per vet rank (iirc) leading to a 27% damage boost factionwide at max vet rank, which imo makes him the strongest starting lord pick. No question that Sigvald has the most character though. E: my endgame army as Archaeon is, ideally, Archaeon, 3 exalted heroes and one sorcerer nominally representing each of the 4 gods (if I have the Marks or items or whatever to theme them more I will, and you could probably have two of each hero type instead) 4 Chosen and 2 each of axe and halberd Chosen, 2 knights of each type + the RoR knights, and 2 hellcannons. It isn't an absolutely ideal composition but it lets me play with a lot of heavy infantry and cavalry while keeping a "chaos undivided" theme. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 15:25
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A YouTube content creator accidentally posted the map flyover early and it’s been reuploaded to Reddit. It looks pretty cool, about what you’d expect. Closeups of Kislev, the Mountains of Mourne, and Cathay. The Celestial City in particular looked pretty cool imo
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Dec 14, 2021 17:08
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Third World Reagan posted:As a fun haver who plays with mods, I have to custom tailor my armies against everything I fight. *tips hat* its true
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Dec 14, 2021 17:11
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Zerkovich accidentally uploaded the campaign flyover map early. he pulled it down, but not before it got captured https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/rg9k8y/campaign_map_flyover_reupload/ very colorful, lots of little details. looks great imo
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Dec 14, 2021 17:22
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Kinda feel bad for Zerkovich, but mistakes happen and holy poo poo that map looks good. Of note: the mountains are actual mountains like the WH1 lands, not the "giant cliffs" that epitomized the WH2 mountain ranges. Interesting that the giant river in Cathay has big ole' cliffs along it, too. Would be cool to sail Black Arks down there, but they'd be kind of trapped and unable to attack anything, unless I'm reading things wrong. Gonkish fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Dec 14, 2021 |
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Dec 14, 2021 17:51
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I wish there was a separate setting to turn down visuals on the campaign map. I feel like my pc works a lot harder on the campaign map than in actual battles
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Dec 14, 2021 17:59
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Trailer is up. It’s lovely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvkjtbJjwac
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Dec 14, 2021 18:20
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I love that the Bastion is so prominent on the map, and appears to actually be a hard border? I'm hoping they correct the issues they had with the Gates on Ulthuan and allow Cathay to actually be able to force invaders to fight them at the Bastion, not "siege this place and then all your armies can suddenly skip right past it lol" like the Gates.
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Dec 14, 2021 18:36
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