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Dobbs_Head
May 8, 2008

nano nano nano

I have done my best to offload this to other people. When I was doing it I was on the support boards and got some help that way.

My pitch to my boss was to buy their customer success management product. But we got $0 in the budget for it.

I figure when we transition from R&D into commercial production we’ll do additional investment in LIMS.

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Spikes32
Jul 25, 2013

Happy trees
Oh yeah commercial should have budget for lims given the additional regulatory requirements. Glad you got it off your plate if you weren't enjoying it though.

ascii genitals
Aug 19, 2000



I went to the labware hq a few years ago to work with them and they have this beautiful bar w beer on tap for employees, and a bunch of fancy coffee machines. Lucky bastards.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003

ascii genitals posted:

I went to the labware hq a few years ago to work with them and they have this beautiful bar w beer on tap for employees, and a bunch of fancy coffee machines. Lucky bastards.

They treat their employees so well. They have season tickets to all the Philadelphia sports teams which employees get pretty regularly, every other year they pay to bring your spouse and kids under a certain age to the user group meeting, the compensation is fairly generous (though a bit weirdly structured), etc. If their product wasn't buried under a mountain of technical debt I'd strongly consider jumping ship.

Matryoshka SexDoll
Feb 24, 2016

Bad Habit
Is this thread still pretty soured on grad school? I'll have my B.S. Chemistry next Spring and the only reason I can think to go for a Masters or PhD is personal satisfaction and interest, but those are criteria I could fulfill later in life when I'm not broke and burnt out.

Current plan is to go look for lab work and learn a hell of a lot of programming in my spare time (maybe move into data science?) but transitioning back into academia after having an actual life again sounds like a massive chore.

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


I didn't go to grad school but I did learn to program and got a job as a software engineer after burning out of lab tech work with my BS. A buddy who powered through his PhD ended up working in data science after postdoc chemistry work anyway. If you want to do tech stuff just do tech stuff now and save yourself the trouble of grad school imo

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Matryoshka SexDoll posted:

Is this thread still pretty soured on grad school? I'll have my B.S. Chemistry next Spring and the only reason I can think to go for a Masters or PhD is personal satisfaction and interest, but those are criteria I could fulfill later in life when I'm not broke and burnt out.

Current plan is to go look for lab work and learn a hell of a lot of programming in my spare time (maybe move into data science?) but transitioning back into academia after having an actual life again sounds like a massive chore.
You'll never go back into academia once you start making industry money. If your future career plans necessitate a PhD, you should buckle down now and get it.

Outside of some really niche areas, its really doesn't matter where you get your PhD and what your thesis is. So pick a school with a lot of tenured professors with a history of being well funded and graduating students on time.

Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006

Matryoshka SexDoll posted:

Is this thread still pretty soured on grad school? I'll have my B.S. Chemistry next Spring and the only reason I can think to go for a Masters or PhD is personal satisfaction and interest, but those are criteria I could fulfill later in life when I'm not broke and burnt out.

Current plan is to go look for lab work and learn a hell of a lot of programming in my spare time (maybe move into data science?) but transitioning back into academia after having an actual life again sounds like a massive chore.

If your gonna go to graduate school get a PhD, masters is usually viewed as a consolation prize for failed PhD candidate’s. And also if you want to take on graduate school I would do it now, once you have started to make industry money its pretty much impossible to go back. My masters advisor referred to this as the “golden handcuffs”, its a pretty apt description in my opinion.

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016
Grad school is like surgery. Don't do it unless not doing it will kill you.

ascii genitals
Aug 19, 2000



I went into industry w a BS and started making money 4-5 years before my friends who went to grad or professional school. Worked out well for me.. I agree: if you want to combine tech and chemistry just go straight to industry.

Dobbs_Head
May 8, 2008

nano nano nano

Graduate school gives you the opportunity to pursue your interests with very little in the way of limits or controls. It is also an opportunity to develop your ability to self-direct and do project management. If you want to run projects in and industrial setting, it’s very helpful to have been to grad school.

It’s also an opportunity to flounder without much pay.

Personally, I was very well served by graduate school. But I also know people for whom it wasn’t a match. It’s really about you, your interests and aptitudes.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Dobbs_Head posted:

Graduate school gives you the opportunity to pursue your interests with very little in the way of limits or controls. It is also an opportunity to develop your ability to self-direct and do project management. If you want to run projects in and industrial setting, it’s very helpful to have been to grad school.

It’s also an opportunity to flounder without much pay.

Personally, I was very well served by graduate school. But I also know people for whom it wasn’t a match. It’s really about you, your interests and aptitudes.
I'd love to know this mythical grad school where you learned project management. I've never seen anyone in an academic setting do even the slightest bit of competent project management.

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016

Dik Hz posted:

I'd love to know this mythical grad school where you learned project management. I've never seen anyone in an academic setting do even the slightest bit of competent project management.

I feel attacked by this post.

In all seriousness, how does one learn good project management skills? Is this something you can learn from a course?

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer
You do get to (mis)manage a project, which does offer some learning experience. How valuable that experience is, well that's debatable

Do any programs actually teach project management?

Eta- I'm pretty sour on grad school, and the floundering, sink or swim, just muddle through model they use was quite unpleasant. Still, I do feel it taught skills, and a thicker hide

Epitope fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Nov 16, 2021

Cardiac
Aug 28, 2012

Dik Hz posted:

I'd love to know this mythical grad school where you learned project management. I've never seen anyone in an academic setting do even the slightest bit of competent project management.

I work in a company where the majority has a PhD. Project management is not our strong suite.
I believe it is due to PhDs learning to plan their own projects but not anyone else, which results in PhDs think their own approach is the best.
This is not really applicable to a larger environment.

Flatulance-a-lot
Jun 3, 2011


Not really sure if this is the right thread, but gently caress it. I'm currently working at a dermpath lab as a technician. I'm primarily cutting and staining sections, but have experience grossing and embedding as well as lab aide work. I'm looking to get my HT or HTL certification and was wondering if anyone has any experience with that? Particularly with study materials.

I have access to the generic histotechnology textbook, but goddamn is it boring and just really uninformative. But it does have chapters about poo poo I've never seen, as I only have experience with derm tissue, so anything that goes in depth and is helpful in studying the other areas would help greatly.

AfricanBootyShine
Jan 9, 2006

Snake wins.

Dik Hz posted:

I'd love to know this mythical grad school where you learned project management. I've never seen anyone in an academic setting do even the slightest bit of competent project management.

Yup, the incentive structure is setup such that even if you want to do project management you're only hurting your own career, because at the EOTD the senior author is always going to be the PI.

Unless you wind up in one of those labs where each grad student manages a fleet of undergrads. I knew a lab like that. Something like 1 postdoc, 1 tech, 2 grad students, and a rotating cast of 16 undergrads.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

mycomancy posted:

I feel attacked by this post.

In all seriousness, how does one learn good project management skills? Is this something you can learn from a course?
Yes, Project Management is a thing. You can take courses on it. Academic types are generally adverse to it because it focuses more on organization and communication than it does on technical skills.

Cardiac posted:

I work in a company where the majority has a PhD. Project management is not our strong suite.
I believe it is due to PhDs learning to plan their own projects but not anyone else, which results in PhDs think their own approach is the best.
This is not really applicable to a larger environment.
The problem is that almost all PhDs are terrible at management (both people management and project management) because they learned through osmosis from professors who are terrible at management, etc. The ivory tower attitude certainly doesn't encourage PhDs to learn from non-PhDs.

AfricanBootyShine posted:

Yup, the incentive structure is setup such that even if you want to do project management you're only hurting your own career, because at the EOTD the senior author is always going to be the PI.

Unless you wind up in one of those labs where each grad student manages a fleet of undergrads. I knew a lab like that. Something like 1 postdoc, 1 tech, 2 grad students, and a rotating cast of 16 undergrads.
Yeah, the incentives line up very poorly between project management and how academia functions. It's very much one investigator - one project. And the whole "Only the first and last author matter" issue. Also, don't confuse project management with people management. They are very different things.

Cardiac
Aug 28, 2012

Dik Hz posted:

The problem is that almost all PhDs are terrible at management (both people management and project management) because they learned through osmosis from professors who are terrible at management, etc. The ivory tower attitude certainly doesn't encourage PhDs to learn from non-PhDs.

Yup, checks out (says someone with a PhD).
One should always remember that professors are where they are because they are good at science and grant proposals, while the others things like people management, economy and project management is something they are more or less forced to do.
Time lines is also not something that is heavily enforced in academia (since there is always a new PhD/postDoc).

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008




Flatulance-a-lot posted:

Not really sure if this is the right thread, but gently caress it. I'm currently working at a dermpath lab as a technician. I'm primarily cutting and staining sections, but have experience grossing and embedding as well as lab aide work. I'm looking to get my HT or HTL certification and was wondering if anyone has any experience with that? Particularly with study materials.

I have access to the generic histotechnology textbook, but goddamn is it boring and just really uninformative. But it does have chapters about poo poo I've never seen, as I only have experience with derm tissue, so anything that goes in depth and is helpful in studying the other areas would help greatly.

Yo whatup fellow histo nerd. Go for HTL is my rec. The textbook is good for knowing what stains to use to target different things. The flashcards, and the HTL workbook, both from ASCP, really helped me figure out the best way to study and are pretty representative of the questions on the actual exam. A few random websites that you can poke around:

ihcworld.com
histology-world.com
histologyguide.org

Ignore any management bullshit, it's all incredibly dumb scenarios and very obvious situations. The annoying thing, when I took the test.. 7 years? gently caress, ago, was that the image quality was absolute trash. They had several "identify this tissue" questions that were an absolute crapshoot cause the resolution of the photos was so bad. Hopefully that's gotten a bit better.

Have you done every different histo station, processing, special stains, routine, etc etc?

Flatulance-a-lot
Jun 3, 2011


Johnny Truant posted:

Yo whatup fellow histo nerd. Go for HTL is my rec. The textbook is good for knowing what stains to use to target different things. The flashcards, and the HTL workbook, both from ASCP, really helped me figure out the best way to study and are pretty representative of the questions on the actual exam. A few random websites that you can poke around:

ihcworld.com
histology-world.com
histologyguide.org

Ignore any management bullshit, it's all incredibly dumb scenarios and very obvious situations. The annoying thing, when I took the test.. 7 years? gently caress, ago, was that the image quality was absolute trash. They had several "identify this tissue" questions that were an absolute crapshoot cause the resolution of the photos was so bad. Hopefully that's gotten a bit better.

Have you done every different histo station, processing, special stains, routine, etc etc?

Thanks! I've done processing and special stains before, not really sure what you mean by routine though. When I first started we had to hand stain all the specials, which sucked. Luckily we got an autostainer for them earlier this year.

Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006

Dik Hz posted:

The problem is that almost all PhDs are terrible at management (both people management and project management) because they learned through osmosis from professors who are terrible at management, etc. The ivory tower attitude certainly doesn't encourage PhDs to learn from non-PhDs.

This has been my experience in 10 years of industry, PhDs are very smart but I’ve met maybe a four who were effective manager’s, and those had the rare trait of lacking the PhD elitism that plagues a-lot of them.

Development
Jun 2, 2016

annual harassment training is wild

quote:

One Friday afternoon, half of the lab had their "out of office" status displayed on Teams. The lab manager tracked them down to the campus pub, enjoying cocktails — not socially distanced. The lab manager exclaimed:

"You're a bunch of losers who aren’t being responsible and will end up sick!"

The lab manager reacted in an impulsive, demoralizing way. The result was yellow. The lab manager wasn't intentional and didn't think about the message he wanted to deliver.

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016

Development posted:

annual harassment training is wild

...the lab manager is in the wrong here?! What on earth.

Development
Jun 2, 2016

mycomancy posted:

...the lab manager is in the wrong here?! What on earth.

lol my favourite part was

quote:

"OK Boomer" Just Adds Offense


"OK Boomer" is a popular phrase these days to call anyone over the age of 40. Using ageist stereotypes is offensive.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

Fisher sells this hand cream:

http://deconlabs.com/products/proguard-professional-hand-cream/

And I'm pretty sure that it's actual, for real magic. I badly want to get an exact equivalent for home use. Anyone know of such a thing?

I know I can probably just buy this product from Decon directly but this poo poo costs $40 for a 16 oz bottle.

Velius
Feb 27, 2001

Mak0rz posted:

Fisher sells this hand cream:

http://deconlabs.com/products/proguard-professional-hand-cream/

And I'm pretty sure that it's actual, for real magic. I badly want to get an exact equivalent for home use. Anyone know of such a thing?

I know I can probably just buy this product from Decon directly but this poo poo costs $40 for a 16 oz bottle.

GSA price from Fisher is still $17.59 a bottle. Amazon has it for $163 (27.32 apiece) for six. Is it that good? My wife’s a physician and every winter gets horrible cracked skin from all the washing and cold dry air.

Mak0rz
Aug 2, 2008

😎🐗🚬

Velius posted:

GSA price from Fisher is still $17.59 a bottle. Amazon has it for $163 (27.32 apiece) for six. Is it that good? My wife’s a physician and every winter gets horrible cracked skin from all the washing and cold dry air.

Fisher Canada sells it for $42.65 CDN. It's not available on Amazon Canada :negative:

And yes, it's very good. Leaves no residue/clamminess and absorbs in seconds. I've been using it regularly for just a few days and already the integrity is coming back to my (what was just a short time ago) badly cracked hands.

Velius
Feb 27, 2001

Mak0rz posted:

Fisher Canada sells it for $42.65 CDN. It's not available on Amazon Canada :negative:

And yes, it's very good. Leaves no residue/clamminess and absorbs in seconds. I've been using it regularly for just a few days and already the integrity is coming back to my (what was just a short time ago) badly cracked hands.

Hm. I ordered an inflated 16 ounce from Amazon, if it is a panacea the pack of six isn’t that marked up from Fisher. I can’t really justify buying it for myself

Bastard Tetris
Apr 27, 2005

L-Shaped


Nap Ghost

Development posted:

lol my favourite part was

lol today I learned that in a few months I fall under federal age discrimination protections

get off my lawn, associates!!!!

Dobbs_Head
May 8, 2008

nano nano nano

Dik Hz posted:

I'd love to know this mythical grad school where you learned project management. I've never seen anyone in an academic setting do even the slightest bit of competent project management.

We’ve had different experiences then. I learned to convert a nebulous scientific question into a targeted line of inquiry, broken down into sub-components to complete.

That skillset was directly transferable to industry.

But if by “project management” you thought I meant the part where you assign those tasks to other people and follow up with them, then yeah academia sucks at that and won’t teach you that. The PhD can set you up to be a solid technical lead, but being a manager with direct reports is a different skillset.

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016

Dobbs_Head posted:

We’ve had different experiences then. I learned to convert a nebulous scientific question into a targeted line of inquiry, broken down into sub-components to complete.

That's the skill we're talking about I think. Seems you were fortunate to learn it. Was your PI/advisor actively involved in teaching you that first before actually doing research? My experience was basically "ok here's what we're trying to do so go do it."

Now in industry the suits here are obsessed with glide paths so I make one of those for projects. Then the project just breaks up into bite-sized chunks off that.

Bastard Tetris
Apr 27, 2005

L-Shaped


Nap Ghost
We use Agile and it’s friggin weird

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Dobbs_Head posted:

We’ve had different experiences then. I learned to convert a nebulous scientific question into a targeted line of inquiry, broken down into sub-components to complete.

That skillset was directly transferable to industry.

But if by “project management” you thought I meant the part where you assign those tasks to other people and follow up with them, then yeah academia sucks at that and won’t teach you that. The PhD can set you up to be a solid technical lead, but being a manager with direct reports is a different skillset.
Project Management is different from being a Manager and is different from breaking down a scientific question into action items. There's a project management thread on this subforum, and the corporate thread is good for manager advice if you're interested in discussing those things. Breaking a topic down into actionable pieces is an important skill in project management. But it's only one piece of the puzzle.

I will add, though, that on the projects I've worked on and lead, technical expertise has never been lacking. When projects fail, it's almost never because someone didn't do a breakdown correctly.

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer

Mustached Demon posted:

That's the skill we're talking about I think. Seems you were fortunate to learn it. Was your PI/advisor actively involved in teaching you that first before actually doing research? My experience was basically "ok here's what we're trying to do so go do it."

Now in industry the suits here are obsessed with glide paths so I make one of those for projects. Then the project just breaks up into bite-sized chunks off that.

They say things like "craft a testable hypothesis" and "don't go on a fishing expedition" but beyond that "oh ya looks good, try all of that" (go away I'm busy). During rotation I got handed a question and an experimental path to probe it. After 6 months of hammering I got the result, and the response was basically "oh, you got that? huh, I don't know if that's worth anything." So I went off and floundered until I bumbled into something with more follow on promise. I think this taught me that academia sucks and I am happy to not be there any more. I think I had it better than a lot of people in my cohort. Glad Dobbs_Head had a better experience!

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Epitope posted:

They say things like "craft a testable hypothesis" and don't go on sure, try a fishing expedition" but beyond that "oh ya looks good, try all of that" (go away I'm busy). During rotation I got handed a question and a vague untested experimental path to probe it. After 6 18 months of hammering mostly without supervision I got the results, and the response was basically "oh, you got that? huh, I don't know if that's worth anything that's a bummer, also this paper has scooped our project and our lead that you worked on was totally off." So I went off and floundered until I bumbled into something with more follow on promise and just worked on other people's projects instead of my own. I think this taught me that academia sucks and I am happy to not be there any more. I think I had it better than a lot of people in my cohort. Glad Dobbs_Head had a better experience!

I got this variant. Can not recommend.

Cardiac
Aug 28, 2012

Zudgemud posted:

I got this variant. Can not recommend.

This is pretty much the norm and not the other way around. Every PhD have their own story about the weirdness about academia and the exceptional supervisor is more a myth than anything else.
Nowadays I try to give PhD students an outside perspective on what matters and what they should focus on to get through their PhD.
Which incidentally is something I wish someone would have told me.

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer
I think there were 2 people out of ~20 in my cohort who got solid guidance on their project. They both had the same advisor. I don't know if he was just really good or really lucky, and if they happened to catch him at the right time. One of us worked under the prof who had ~~spent time in industry~~ and that mostly seemed like more regimented schedule and more harping on data quality/defensibility (which, fair, those are laughably bad in academia generally) rather than project guidance. I do wonder how much is academia culture, and how much is innate in basic research driven mostly by the whims of people who are students. For the record I really liked my advisor and don't blame him too much for not thinking ahead better for me.

mycomancy
Oct 16, 2016
I've been having some serious angst about my scientific career lately. A lot of it comes from learning about Marxist perspectives on labor, which I did not have when I started graduate school. All my advisors, and probably most of y'all's, 100% abused my labor and the labor of my peers to produce data to elevate their position without providing nearly the quality or quantity of training necessary to produce a functional scientist at the end of it. I mostly got very very lucky with my connections to enable me to get this far in a scientific career without ever winning a single finding award. Still, I'm so sick of this career and the god drat rich coastal cunts who infest it.

I don't really know what I'd do outside of science though. I loving hate teaching, or really any job where I have to interact strongly with people because I think the last two years have shown the kinds of people with which this world is populated.

Maybe I'll just hike into some woods and never come out.

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Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer
Take enough food and gear to support a return, maybe bring back a spiritual awakening. Or at least some good posts.

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