Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
SubG
Aug 19, 2004

It's a hard world for little things.

Nenonen posted:

Make a movie about a tank's journey through a war, but the vehicle's actually possessed like Stephen King's Christine and her crews keep inexclicably dying one after another because they don't live to the tank's expectations.
This is from a few pages back, but I don't think anyone else has brought it up. May I introduce you to the DC comic feature The Haunted Tank:

wikipedia posted:

Haunted Tank was created by writer and editor Robert Kanigher and artist Russ Heath in G.I. Combat #87 (May 1961).[2] The feature centers on the ghost of 19th-century Confederate general J. E. B. Stuart, who is sent by the spirit of Alexander the Great to act as a guardian over his two namesakes, Lieutenant Jeb Stuart (named Jeb Stuart Smith in the early stories, eventually shortened to Jeb Stuart) and the M3 Stuart he commands.[3]
[...]
An origin story in G.I. Combat #114 reveals that, at the time of the ghost's arrival, Jeb is a sergeant in the United States Army who commands a Stuart tank fighting with the Allies in the North African Campaign. Jeb and his men are childhood friends who had volunteered for the cavalry when World War II began. The original crew consists of Jeb as tank commander; Arch Asher, loader; Rick Rawlins, gunner; and Slim Stryker, driver.

General Stuart's ghost does not initially care for his assignment, but is impressed with the fighting spirit of Jeb and his crew. Jeb further honors the ghost by flying a Confederate rather than a Union flag on his "haunted" tank. Jeb, however, is the only one who can see or hear the General. His crew thinks he is crazy, but continue to follow his leadership as he has solid tactical expertise (brought about through his consultations with the General, who usually gives him cryptic hints of future events) and rarely fails in his missions.

As the Haunted Tank fights from Africa to the European Theater of Operations, the crew goes through several M3 tanks. When their latest M3 is destroyed, the crew scavenge spare parts and wreckage from a "tank graveyard" to build themselves a new tank, known as the "Jigsaw Tank",[4] which serves them from that point. This tank has a modified Russian T-34 Hull, a Christie Suspension System and a Russian Y2 12-Cylinder diesel engine of 500 H.P. The nearly 15-foot track gives this rolling jigsaw puzzle excellent traction and it is capable of speeds up to 21 m.p.h.[5]

Following a disastrous mission engineered to rescue the son of their commanding officer, General Norton, from a German P.O.W. camp (based on the Task Force Baum incident), the crew of the Haunted Tank find themselves stranded behind enemy lines and spend several issues fighting their way back to the front. During this, they pick up Gus Gray, an African American soldier who had escaped from the same P.O.W. camp.[6] Days later, Arch dies saving them from an exploding suicidal German tank [7] and Gus takes his place in the crew.

Later in the war, Slim is also killed in action and older veteran, Bill Craig, replaces him.[8] Craig's son Eddie also joins the crew a few issues later,[9] taking over the loader's position and allowing Gus to act as a second gunner.

The Jigsaw Tank is eventually replaced by an M4 Sherman tank that sees them through to the end of the war. Despite a story that involves the ghost of General William T. Sherman being assigned to the tank once the crew switches to the Sherman, Commander Stuart's ghost continues to watch over the crew until war's end.
Even given the premise, the comic tends to, uh, take some liberties with historicity:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

You're missing the best part, the sequel series set in the Gulf War. Though it does have some, uh, unfortunate implications:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

But if it's recoilless, how am I supposed to fly backwards?

Attach the propeller backwards, idiot!

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

PeterCat posted:

You're missing the best part, the sequel series set in the Gulf War. Though it does have some, uh, unfortunate implications:



I'm glad none of the tanks in my platoon got saddled with an old racist ghost.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

PeterCat posted:

You're missing the best part, the sequel series set in the Gulf War. Though it does have some, uh, unfortunate implications:



Hahahah I thought I was the only one who remembered that, a read a few issues, it was pretty funny. Also the other half of the issue had the US and North Koreans fighting dinosaurs.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

Ensign Expendable posted:

Gun Motor Carriage T12/M3
King Tigers in Hungary
German King Tiger losses in December of 1944 in Hungary
Tiger (P) Typ 102
T-55 underwater driving equipment
T-34 tanks with M-17 engines

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009
The Haunted Tank and it's ghost is one of those things writers for DC occasionally bust out for some WTF.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Thomamelas posted:

The Haunted Tank and it's ghost is one of those things writers for DC occasionally bust out for some WTF.

Yeah, honestly I thought it was a great idea, granted it’s kind of tough to balance humor and ensuring you not making Jeb Stuart look like a decent person… well least without a ton of character development that I doubt DC would give in terms of a number of issues.

For the other end of the spectrum, Garth Ennis did some really really nice comics on war, he was apparently a huge fan of old British war comics when he was growing up and truthfully they don’t really exist as a genre that much anymore, so he made his own. I actually have a hardback of some of the ones done by Marvel around the Korean War.

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Yeah, honestly I thought it was a great idea, granted it’s kind of tough to balance humor and ensuring you not making Jeb Stuart look like a decent person… well least without a ton of character development that I doubt DC would give in terms of a number of issues.

For the other end of the spectrum, Garth Ennis did some really really nice comics on war, he was apparently a huge fan of old British war comics when he was growing up and truthfully they don’t really exist as a genre that much anymore, so he made his own. I actually have a hardback of some of the ones done by Marvel around the Korean War.

Larry Hama's run on GI Joe is surprisingly great. I know that sounds weird, license tie in comics in the 80's is not something that brings to mind people doing great work. But no one else wanted to do and Marvel really wanted the money so it gave him a lot more freedom than one might expect. And he did such a great job that Hasbro released him from the draconian rules license based comics tend to have. Like the ones preventing Joes from dying in combat. And he brought in some of his experience serving in Vietnam.

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

👰Proč bychom se netěšili🥰když nám Pán Bůh🙌🏻zdraví dá💪?
Don't forget Tank 666 from Ghost Rider



SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Tanker skeletons on fire inside the tank.

Truly unstoppable.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012


Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.



Wedge Regret

Scratch Monkey posted:

Don't forget Tank 666 from Ghost Rider





In the same area:



Yes, I’m still irrationally annoyed by the placement of the M16 magazines on the front of that thing.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM


Bruce Dickinson's Twilight:2000 game.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

Scratch Monkey posted:

Don't forget Tank 666 from Ghost Rider





I very much appreciate the attention to detail the artist showed. Most of them would've skipped the machine guns in the sponsons.

Unless the sponson machine gun mounts were never used in combat, in which case the artist is a lazy hack who couldn't be bothered to look up more than one reference photo.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe
Bruce Dickinson owns

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

What colors did the Soviet military use to denote friendly and enemy forces on maps and wargames?

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

VostokProgram posted:

What colors did the Soviet military use to denote friendly and enemy forces on maps and wargames?



https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=dodmilintel (PDF)

The opposite of the US and I believe NATO, so red for friendly and blue for enemy.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe

VostokProgram posted:

What colors did the Soviet military use to denote friendly and enemy forces on maps and wargames?

China's OPFOR at their CTC's is "BLUEFOR" which tickles me to no end.

The current BLUEFOR commander is also a real trip, its like he's an actor playing the part of what the Chinese think a US Army officer acts like.

standard.deviant
May 17, 2012

Globally Indigent

bewbies posted:

China's OPFOR at their CTC's is "BLUEFOR" which tickles me to no end.

The current BLUEFOR commander is also a real trip, its like he's an actor playing the part of what the Chinese think a US Army officer acts like.
How are you going to say that and not give links?

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009

bewbies posted:

China's OPFOR at their CTC's is "BLUEFOR" which tickles me to no end.

The current BLUEFOR commander is also a real trip, its like he's an actor playing the part of what the Chinese think a US Army officer acts like.

We need video.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe

standard.deviant posted:

How are you going to say that and not give links?


Thomamelas posted:

We need video.

fair points

I'll see if I can dig up something better when I'm not cockblocked by the DOD's network, but:

this was the guy I was thinking of, walking around and pointing like patton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmDv2Mx1o3Y&t=461s

Here's a more recent video, you can actually see their blue "OPFOR" badge and all the crap they bolt onto type 59s or something to make them look like abramses or challengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zJ1geBTg3s&t=155s

you can also compare that first guy to a more traditional PLA officer's interview style (standing there looking terribly awkward and giving very proper answers)

sidenote: the little blue light bulbs on their helmets are smoke cans that go off if you're "killed"

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Tbf he does a pretty spot on impression

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Marshal Prolapse posted:

For the other end of the spectrum, Garth Ennis did some really really nice comics on war, he was apparently a huge fan of old British war comics when he was growing up and truthfully they don’t really exist as a genre that much anymore, so he made his own. I actually have a hardback of some of the ones done by Marvel around the Korean War.

They're really quite nice: the shortness and simplicity of the war comic with Ennis' passion for the stuff and some nice, updated material. It's clear in places that Ennis' still believes in a bunch of myths about materiel and Germans, but there's something absolutely delightful about seeing a Panther having transmission trouble or the Wehrmacht soldier who realises the evil system he's part of and decides to do good getting knifed in the kidney by a Night Witch because his regret and humanity is worthless in the face of the evil he's been part of.

Gargamel Gibson
Apr 24, 2014

ChubbyChecker posted:

recoilles rifles were later used on jeeps

don't know how effective they were though

Jeeps don't have a lot of armor so I would assume they were quite effective.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018

Gargamel Gibson posted:

Jeeps don't have a lot of armor so I would assume they were quite effective.

ayy

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Hahahah I thought I was the only one who remembered that, a read a few issues, it was pretty funny. Also the other half of the issue had the US and North Koreans fighting dinosaurs.

Speaking of Korean War veterans fighting dinosaurs and also Garth Ennis



feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:



https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=dodmilintel (PDF)

The opposite of the US and I believe NATO, so red for friendly and blue for enemy.

I mean literally called the Red Army officially at one point so not too surprising.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

bewbies posted:

China's OPFOR at their CTC's is "BLUEFOR" which tickles me to no end.

The current BLUEFOR commander is also a real trip, its like he's an actor playing the part of what the Chinese think a US Army officer acts like.

Do any other countries look at US doctrine and think "Yes, this is something we should emulate?"

I always here about good things other countries do that the US should adopt, does it ever work the other way round?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

PeterCat posted:

Do any other countries look at US doctrine and think "Yes, this is something we should emulate?"

I always here about good things other countries do that the US should adopt, does it ever work the other way round?

this would logically make sense because you can't exactly adopt ideas from your own doctrine

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

this would logically make sense because you can't exactly adopt ideas from your own doctrine

Well yes, but you can also just not adopt another country's doctrine as well.

I'll ask it another way.

What aspects of US doctrine, if any, have other countries found fit to emulate?

Not counting countries that the US was molding like Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, or Afghanistan.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Fire-control, I assume. You guys pretty much wrote the manual for integrating artillery into squad-level operations.

hypnophant
Oct 19, 2012

PeterCat posted:

Well yes, but you can also just not adopt another country's doctrine as well.

I'll ask it another way.

What aspects of US doctrine, if any, have other countries found fit to emulate?

Not counting countries that the US was molding like Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, or Afghanistan.

an nco corps and professionalized logistics

for more details you can look at all the stuff china put out 10 years ago when they started to reform their military, explicitly basing much of what they wanted to do on the us

hypnophant fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Dec 17, 2021

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

feedmegin posted:

I mean literally called the Red Army officially at one point so not too surprising.

I have some kind of muddleheaded recollection that this convention dates back to Imperial army days, though I could be wrong. But red has a special significance in Russian culture, as it used to be synonymous for beautiful (now krasnii vs. krasivyi). See also: the Red Square.
Fake edit: just as a quick inconclusive case that I could find just now, here's a contemporary print of the battle of Port Arthur in which Russian positions are printed with red.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._1904%D0%B3.jpg

Elissimpark
May 20, 2010

Bring me the head of Auguste Escoffier.
Are OPFOR dedicated wholly to being OPFOR, or do they have regular armed forces jobs when there aren't war games?

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Nenonen posted:

I have some kind of muddleheaded recollection that this convention dates back to Imperial army days, though I could be wrong. But red has a special significance in Russian culture, as it used to be synonymous for beautiful (now krasnii vs. krasivyi). See also: the Red Square.
Fake edit: just as a quick inconclusive case that I could find just now, here's a contemporary print of the battle of Port Arthur in which Russian positions are printed with red.

Not just a Russian thing. The Royal Navy is historically always red, and I think a whole bunch of countries copied that from them, to the point where the desired color for squiggly lines on map that denote their own units is red. Blue for friendlies is, if anything, a historical aberration that the US rammed down the throats of everyone in NATO, just because they could.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe

PeterCat posted:

Do any other countries look at US doctrine and think "Yes, this is something we should emulate?"

PLAA is a good example of this, as they were modernizing they studied pretty much everything and everyone and tried to adopt best practices everywhere they could. They decided the US approach to maneuver warfare was the best, and so now their maneuver doctrine and systems look an awful lot like their US equivalents.

A recent example that is kind of amusing was most of the world following the US lead in making the brigade the primary tactical echelon...which the US is currently moving back away from (back towards the division). And so now are several other militaries (Russia, France, etc).

Another good example is US air doctrine -- specifically DCA -- was copied by pretty much everyone in the years after WWII. The USN was really the big driver of this; the Big Blue Blanket looks an awful like a modern DCA approach, just with much shorter ranges and engagement distances.

Elissimpark posted:

Are OPFOR dedicated wholly to being OPFOR, or do they have regular armed forces jobs when there aren't war games?

In the US (eg, 11th ACR) and China (eg, 195th CA-BDE) they have dedicated brigade sized units that do nothing but OPFOR at the combat training centers. They're still "regular" units and are equipped to deploy and fight but their main mission is as OPFOR. You also have dedicated professional "threat actors" that replicate opponents in sims and experiments.

At the unit level you just have some portion of the unit that gets so designated and they play bad guy for a while, but it isn't like a full time job.

bewbies fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Dec 17, 2021

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

The US Naval War College in the inter-war era had a whole color system for navies in their exercises. From the book The Blue Sword:

Blue = USA
Black = Germany
Orange = Japan
Red = Great Britain
Crimson = Canada
Scarlet = Australia
Garnet = New Zealand
Ruby = India
Gold = France
Silver = Italy
Olive = Spain
Green = Mexico
Brown = Netherlands
Purple = USSR
Lemon = Portugal
Citron = Brazil
Yellow = China
Indigo = Iceland
Emerald = Eire
Gray = Azores
Tan = Cuba

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Cessna posted:

The US Naval War College in the inter-war era had a whole color system for navies in their exercises. From the book The Blue Sword:

Blue = USA
Black = Germany
Orange = Japan
Red = Great Britain
Crimson = Canada
Scarlet = Australia
Garnet = New Zealand
Ruby = India
Gold = France
Silver = Italy
Olive = Spain
Green = Mexico
Brown = Netherlands
Purple = USSR
Lemon = Portugal
Citron = Brazil
Yellow = China
Indigo = Iceland
Emerald = Eire
Gray = Azores
Tan = Cuba

Let's not forget the War Plans too. War Plan Crimson to War Plan White. I remember using ILL back in the 00s to get copies of the plans. I bet their probably all online somewhere now.

For a listen to those interested in our plans to crush Canada as part of War against the British.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-u92R04bc

Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Dec 17, 2021

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011

It has been two zero days since last incident.
Big Super Slapstick Hunk

Cessna posted:

The US Naval War College in the inter-war era had a whole color system for navies in their exercises. From the book The Blue Sword:

Blue = USA
Black = Germany
Orange = Japan
Red = Great Britain
Crimson = Canada
Scarlet = Australia
Garnet = New Zealand
Ruby = India
Gold = France
Silver = Italy
Olive = Spain
Green = Mexico
Brown = Netherlands
Purple = USSR
Lemon = Portugal
Citron = Brazil
Yellow = China
Indigo = Iceland
Emerald = Eire
Gray = Azores
Tan = Cuba

Coloring the Netherlands as brown instead of orange is a beautiful way of insulting the house of Orange.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Scratch Monkey
Oct 25, 2010

👰Proč bychom se netěšili🥰když nám Pán Bůh🙌🏻zdraví dá💪?
War Plan Crimson was hilarious because it was the study of a potential invasion of Canada. The Northern Menace must be countered!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply