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Panzeh posted:Yeah, honestly, i'd love to see a napoleon/1700s type game in the wargame millieu, lots of map, focused out armies, tons of little villages and towns and bad roads in an engine that lets you zoom around like that, not a total war game where you're kinda already in the chicken coop. Isn't that scourge of war?
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Dec 15, 2021 18:04
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Panzeh posted:Anyway, someone make OCS on the computer, stat. This. I still can’t believe nobody’s made a serious effort to port all these cardboard wargames to PC.
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Dec 15, 2021 19:40
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fuf posted:Wargame was definitely larger scale in general though: you were more likely to have vehicles in groups and the game was at its best when you had loads of units on really big maps. There is this game that seems similar to the concept you are going for. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1444550/Waronoi/
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Dec 15, 2021 19:55
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What’s wrong with the SD2 infantry? It’s the only eugen game I’ve played.
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Dec 16, 2021 23:05
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appropriatemetaphor posted:What’s wrong with the SD2 infantry? It’s the only eugen game I’ve played. In SD2 they made all tanks around 20-50pt cheaper while infantry kept the same price. They decide to give every cannon 2000m range (changed in recent patch, but that's like, years after release already). So now there's is a whole bunch more tanks all able to fire on infantry from 2000m away which really kills a lot of their ability to maneuver or do anything (I suppose you can tediously fire walls of smoke everywhere). Moving the setting from the bocage country of Normandy didn't help any as now the maps are a lot more open. pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Dec 16, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 23:41
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Speaking of Eugen and Wargame: They just released a teaser for what seems to be some modern warfare-related thing that they've been working on for "the last couple months and years", to be revealed tomorrow. So a new Wargame might actually be happening.
NeverHelm fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 16, 2021 23:59
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Mordja posted:Huh, looks like the Star Trek Armada games have been added to GOG. Oh man, what a shame only Starfleet Command 3 is on there as it's the MOO3 of the series, 1 and 2 are insanely cool and fun games, even the MMO based its combat on those games. I'd love a giant new version of the old games, they were so fun to play. Shame that other than like, Rebel Galaxy there arent any games like that. The multiplayer was great too, there was nothing like uncloaking your klingon bird of prey directly on top of a federation cruiser, unloading all your forward phasers and disruptors, then dancing around their phaser orientations as to soak up as much of it as possible in your (energy system strengthened) forward shields until they recharged to deliver the second blow that punches the hole through their shields, then divert all power from the ECM to ECCM, drop shields, beam marines to blow up engines and energy systems, engage cloak, and leave em dead in the space water for your teammates to mop up.
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Dec 17, 2021 00:08
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Re: Men of War chat a few pages ago This game seems pretty similar, naively: https://store.steampowered.com/app/377300/Thunder_Tier_One/ It has similar game mechanics and is good overall. The mission scenarios are fun and interesting, but can be cheesed and so hopefully they'll keep adding more content.
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Dec 17, 2021 00:23
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pedro0930 posted:In SD2 they made all tanks around 20-50pt cheaper while infantry kept the same price. They decide to give every cannon 2000m range (changed in recent patch, but that's like, years after release already). So now there's is a whole bunch more tanks all able to fire on infantry from 2000m away which really kills a lot of their ability to maneuver or do anything (I suppose you can tediously fire walls of smoke everywhere). Moving the setting from the bocage country of Normandy didn't help any as now the maps are a lot more open. But as far as I'm aware all the meta divisions are infantry heavy divisions? I thought if anything infantry is too good!
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Dec 17, 2021 00:29
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appropriatemetaphor posted:But as far as I'm aware all the meta divisions are infantry heavy divisions? I thought if anything infantry is too good! you still need infantry, but you need to be able to spam and keep up on attrition because of the unfriendly environment to them, if you can't spam, you'll get overwhelmed and lose, but that's the only approach to infantry compared to SD44
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Dec 17, 2021 00:35
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Eugen's announcement is out. Sounds like basically Wargame but with Steel Division's QoL improvements. Army General style campaign. 1989, no prototype unit. https://youtu.be/z4yZRkFsQUM
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Dec 17, 2021 18:55
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pedro0930 posted:Eugen's announcement is out. Steam store link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1611600/WARNO/ They really did listen to the community it sounds like. Wargame with some QoL adjustments, no prototypes, army general campaign (maybe even co-op)? I think it's going to be outstanding. I think the Division system & Army General mode has been pretty profitable for Eugen while also providing a pretty decent value for players, so I think it'll be a win-win in that perspective too.    New UI looks nice OctaMurk fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 19:01
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So why did people not like the prototypes? Is it just a  thing? If you don't like how they break immersion, couldn't you just not use them?I have Red Dragon but bounced off whenever I tried to get into it, and only put about 20 hours into Steel Division, pretty much all multiplayer, so it's not a series I'm deeply familiar with.
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Dec 18, 2021 19:08
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Mordja posted:So why did people not like the prototypes? Is it just a Definitely not, I think the vast majority of players enjoyed prototype units and a lot of them are memes on the subreddit. But at the same time the majority also recognized that while these units were really cool and unique, they weren't actually good for the game itself because of how supremely effective they were in their niche and how limited in availability they are. They made the game hard to balance also. Basically, Wargame is billed as practically "Total War but it's the Cold War"; but then you buy the game and play MP or skirmish where it's 90% about microing a handful of "hero units" -- still really fun, but not really what the game was meant to be.
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Dec 18, 2021 19:36
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Agreed, high-points units added gameplay problems. I like the concept of WEE (and its spawn) and have played them for many hours, so I while I do have my criticisms I think the base game is good. As above, all is said with the caveat that the game wasn't intended to be a micro game but more hands off (like its predecessors RUSE and Act of War). The way the game mechanics work, its almost always better to have one eg. 200 point tank than two 100 point tanks, especially if you're microing that 200 point unit. Obviously there will be situations in which more cheaper units are the better pick, but in general terms you're almost always better off with smaller numbers of high-capability high-cost units. The difference in weapons systems doesn't scale linearly to point value, especially once coupled with the fact that it is much easier to micro a small number of units than a large amount of units, and microing units can give one huge advantages in WEE/WALB/WRD. Its not that every match is reduced to Leo 2A5s microing against T-80UMs, but it is significant enough that it runs contrary to the original idea about the game.
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Dec 18, 2021 20:02
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Ah, I didn't realize prototype units were a gameplay mechanic thing, I figured they were just, "hey, check out this weird tank that never actually saw deployment, give it a shot."
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Dec 18, 2021 20:06
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Wargame.always had this weird thing where you either picked the cheapest tank or the best tank while the massive amount of choives for middle of the road tanks were kinds subpar. I'm not sure if this changed.
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Dec 19, 2021 11:38
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From what I gather Wargame didn’t have divisions? Like you could just pick whatever unit for the “faction”? Seems like Warno has divisions so you’ll be “forced” to use the more rando weird units because maybe it’s all you’ve got.
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Dec 19, 2021 18:54
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Wargame had divisions, but you could choose 'no division' to access the whole faction. It reduced your deckbuilding points and restricted you from prototype units. In Red Dragon, at least. It's been so long I don't remember how AirLand Battle was.
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Dec 19, 2021 19:10
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appropriatemetaphor posted:From what I gather Wargame didn’t have divisions? Like you could just pick whatever unit for the “faction”? Sokani posted:Wargame had divisions, but you could choose 'no division' to access the whole faction. It reduced your deckbuilding points and restricted you from prototype units.
Mans posted:Wargame.always had this weird thing where you either picked the cheapest tank or the best tank while the massive amount of choives for middle of the road tanks were kinds subpar. I'm not sure if this changed. 
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Dec 20, 2021 01:09
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OxMan posted:Oh man, what a shame only Starfleet Command 3 is on there as it's the MOO3 of the series, 1 and 2 are insanely cool and fun games, even the MMO based its combat on those games. I'd love a giant new version of the old games, they were so fun to play. Shame that other than like, Rebel Galaxy there arent any games like that. The multiplayer was great too, there was nothing like uncloaking your klingon bird of prey directly on top of a federation cruiser, unloading all your forward phasers and disruptors, then dancing around their phaser orientations as to soak up as much of it as possible in your (energy system strengthened) forward shields until they recharged to deliver the second blow that punches the hole through their shields, then divert all power from the ECM to ECCM, drop shields, beam marines to blow up engines and energy systems, engage cloak, and leave em dead in the space water for your teammates to mop up. The original Starfleet Command was released on there a few years ago, I think that page is just listing the batch they're releasing now.
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Dec 20, 2021 03:30
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Insert name here posted:
Fair enough, I never played RD because ALB was already way too overwhelming for me
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Dec 20, 2021 15:44
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One of the patches from the past few months absolutely destroyed COH2 on my computer. It barely runs now and it is just COH2 with this problem. Bummer.
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Dec 23, 2021 22:00
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Regiments is running a new, more involved playests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJjjdgIgx2E https://store.steampowered.com/app/1109680/Regiments/
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Dec 28, 2021 04:46
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I tried Dwarfheim — the RTS that splits each player into miner/producer/commander roles — and oof. I was mining, and while conceptually I appreciate the idea of a mini Factorio for the mining role, the UX is bad and mistakes are far too punishing. If something gets hosed up in your supply line, it seems like you have a blow up a bunch of your parts to try and refactor everything. And when something does go wrong, the game does nothing to alert you of this. To explain it using StarCraft as a base, it’s like if floating too many minerals could block you from mining any more gas, except the origin of the problem would be non-obvious — you’d just see gas ceasing to come in and would have to click around to debug the issue — and you had to go blow up some of your supply depots to fix the imbalance.
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Dec 28, 2021 07:19
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Mordja posted:Regiments is running a new, more involved playests. Mans posted:Fair enough, I never played RD because ALB was already way too overwhelming for me Personally I appreciated the larger map sizes giving the game more space to breathe, since ALB maps had some big "knife fight in a phone booth" energy.
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Dec 28, 2021 08:40
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Cicero posted:I tried Dwarfheim — the RTS that splits each player into miner/producer/commander roles — and oof. I was mining, and while conceptually I appreciate the idea of a mini Factorio for the mining role, the UX is bad and mistakes are far too punishing. If something gets hosed up in your supply line, it seems like you have a blow up a bunch of your parts to try and refactor everything. And when something does go wrong, the game does nothing to alert you of this. Yeah I gave dwarfheim a shake a little while back and while it's an incredible idea the execution is pretty bad. Miner in particular is a "this is an extremely difficult role until you've put a few hours into figuring it out, and then it's exactly the same every time" situation I had the most fun with it doing the mode where you control all 3 "players" on the team - each role is very simple but juggling all 3 was actually fairly challenging (miner works a lot better as something you check in on every few minutes than as something you stare at for the entire game). At that point though, it's just a subpar RTS with some weird gimmicks. Too bad, if the game was good I'd be trying to get as many friends as possible playing it with me ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 15:34
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wrong forum, sorry!
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Dec 30, 2021 04:24
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ninjewtsu posted:Yeah I gave dwarfheim a shake a little while back and while it's an incredible idea the execution is pretty bad. Miner in particular is a "this is an extremely difficult role until you've put a few hours into figuring it out, and then it's exactly the same every time" situation The second layer with the underground was pretty neat though. I think having that as a second gameplay layer instead of Starcraft-style air units -- which are basically just "same as ground units, except collision isn't a thing" -- would be an improvement.
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Dec 30, 2021 09:09
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i was honestly shocked when i found there wasn't a big tower defense element to miner/builder. miner/builder could definitely be combined into one role where buildings need to be fed resources via belts to make units/upgrades/whatever so it's more factoriolike and the econ player has more stuff to do. hell make the build site need to be fed building materials in order to construct the building. probably give workers some limited ability to carry poo poo around so forward bases or quick construction is possible but requires a dedicated effort with a lot of manpower. 2v2 matches would also probably be an easier sell than 3v3. finding one buddy to play a weird indie strategy game with you is a lot easier than finding 2. ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 15:46
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now i'm mad that "factorio, but you can build the bugs and each side has 1 player solely dedicated to controlling the bugs" isn't a real game
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Dec 30, 2021 15:50
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ninjewtsu posted:now i'm mad that "factorio, but you can build the bugs and each side has 1 player solely dedicated to controlling the bugs" isn't a real game mindustry is this but it's single player
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Dec 30, 2021 16:17
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mindustry is multiplayer, though i forget if it has actual pvp. in any case you don't really control the robots you make very much so there isn't the same combat/econ divide, the combat in mindustry isn't complex enough for that unless you're only looking at the tower defense portion (which is the majority of combat in that game, but doesn't fit the ask)
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Dec 30, 2021 16:26
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Are there any purely turn based 4x games that don't have weird battle minigames other than Civ? It seems like they all either have "simultaneous turns" and/or the battles are a whole separate thing that I don't want to learn about. For examples of games that I have tried and not super enjoyed: Endless anything (battles), Humankind (simultaneous and battles), Age of Wonder: Plantefall (battles), EUIV/Stellaris (not turn based) I have gotten every non-scenario achievement in Civ 5, and have 250 hours in Civ 6 but just can't get into it (it feels like a bunch of different mechanics glued together with no cohesion, I don't like the art, and the AI sucks). Please help me find a new addiction!
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Dec 30, 2021 17:40
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Shadow Empire seems to fit the bill. Or maybe Warlock.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:09
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Old World?
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Dec 30, 2021 19:17
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Old World owns and fits the bill, but you might wish to hold out for the Steam release
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Dec 30, 2021 19:22
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pedro0930 posted:Shadow Empire seems to fit the bill. Or maybe Warlock. Probably not Shadow Empire. Shadow Empire has unit builders and a detailed combat model that you need to be at least somewhat proficient with.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:46
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ninjewtsu posted:mindustry is multiplayer, though i forget if it has actual pvp. in any case you don't really control the robots you make very much so there isn't the same combat/econ divide, the combat in mindustry isn't complex enough for that unless you're only looking at the tower defense portion (which is the majority of combat in that game, but doesn't fit the ask) You can absolutely control the robots as a squad or telling them to go to a specific forward base. Coding wizardry can make them do even more. Civilization 4 is different enough to be a whole different game, and lacks any battle sub screen. Still value in promoting troops for the terrain.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:47
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Shadow Empire looks interesting, but maybe a bit too much focus on war? Warlock I'm not sure what game you're referring to Old World looks sweet. I will probably wait til it's on Steam, though. Civ 4 is a good idea, I didn't play a ton of that so maybe it'll scratch the itch.
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Dec 30, 2021 19:54
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