Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

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Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

There's a good article in German that goes over the details and background of the Berlin trial. It's long, but here's an extract

quote:

Oppressive burden of proof

Several witnesses made similar observations: The burden of proof is overwhelming, which has been gathered over months since the trial began on October 7, 2020. A 57-year-old Berlin state official said he was sitting at 11:45 am in the �Alverdes� restaurant in the Kleiner Tiergarten, about 80 meters from the crime scene. He heard a bang, rushed to the scene and saw the perpetrator put a 30 centimeter gun "in peace" in a pocket.

Then he got on a bike and �went on comfortably�. Court spokeswoman Lisa Jani: �Should the accused actually be convicted of murder, he would face life imprisonment. That does not automatically mean that he would be released on probation after 15 years. "

The accused followed the testimony of witnesses, motionless to the point of disinterest. He is silent. Then two young men report that they have observed a man a few hundred meters from the crime scene on the Holsteiner Ufer. For one of the process observers, the journalist Valeria Dobralskaya from the Russian-language Berlin television station Ost-West-TV, this statement was decisive.

�I think the key moment, without which this process would not even exist, are the testimony of witnesses S. and D., two young men who live in the neighborhood and who watched the alleged perpetrator drop objects into the water at the Lessing Bridge throws and have alerted the police. If these witnesses weren't there, and numerous other witnesses have confirmed this, the perpetrator would have simply changed clothes and scooted off with the electric scooter. "

An employee of the Russian secret service?

He changed clothes and then threw a bicycle and other objects into the Spree. A little later the police arrived and found the man in a bush. The police recovered the bicycle and a pistol with a silencer. According to research by the journalists' network Bellingcat, the accused is an employee of the Russian secret service FSB. For four days of trial, a Bellingcat journalist who was researching the case testified - heavily guarded. Before the Superior Court in Berlin, the defense tried to question the seriousness of the journalists. Manana Tsatijewa is the victim's divorced wife.

In the trial, she appeared as a witness for the co-plaintiff. She is impressed by the statements of the journalists, she says. �In principle, the journalists did all the investigative work. And we were just lucky to have such supporters. Otherwise nobody would have stood up for us simple people in a foreign country. I am very grateful to the journalists. They fight for the truth and they are very brave.

The hearing begins at 11am local time, and we're expecting the verdict pretty quickly.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 21:22

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:10

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Speaking of Germany (or the EU in general) and Russia, how far back does the EUs dependency on Russian natural gas go? Does it go back to Soviet days? I think it's weird now how all of a sudden Russia can hold the EU hostage by threatening to cut off their gas supply like this seems to be a more recent phenomenon.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 22:18

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Russia says it may be forced to deploy mid-range nuclear missiles in Europe

(Why would you feel the need to announce this, Russia? Do you intend to use them?)

# ? Dec 14, 2021 22:58

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Grouchio posted:

Russia says it may be forced to deploy mid-range nuclear missiles in Europe

(Why would you feel the need to announce this, Russia? Do you intend to use them?)

It's just part of a long time beef Russia's been having with USA. Washington's saying that Moscow's breaching the INF treaty so there is no point in continuing it. Moscow's saying that Washington's trying to break their commitments to the treaty, so they have no alternative but to increase pressure by bringing missiles to Europe (which Washington says they already have here).

Therefore no, Russia doesn't intend to use them but they will use INF as part of their propaganda about NATO betraying Russia at every turn.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 23:12

mmkay: Oct 21, 2010

Grouchio posted:

(Why would you feel the need to announce this, Russia? Do you intend to use them?)

The world needs to learn about their peaceful ways.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 23:13

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Grouchio posted:

Russia says it may be forced to deploy mid-range nuclear missiles in Europe

(Why would you feel the need to announce this, Russia? Do you intend to use them?)

No, they won't use them because it'd violate MAD. Putin's not dumb.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 23:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Charliegrs posted:

Speaking of Germany (or the EU in general) and Russia, how far back does the EUs dependency on Russian natural gas go? Does it go back to Soviet days? I think it's weird now how all of a sudden Russia can hold the EU hostage by threatening to cut off their gas supply like this seems to be a more recent phenomenon.

It goes back to Reagan administration�s failure to stop Soviet gas pipelines construction in the 80s.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 23:23

Antigravitas: Dec 8, 2019; Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Trade with Russia has been a thing through the cold war. It should also be noted that there have been tussles about gas throughout the entire time. But trade has always been used to have leverage in time of crisis that would not exist if trade was halted.

# ? Dec 14, 2021 23:37

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Big day on the eastern front. With Russia running battle drills in Donbas, NAti and Ukraine giving a big talking point speech, and the Ukrainian legislature giving approval to house foreign troops for military drills. These things being done out in the open is curious to say the least. The reason I say that is it they were meant to be meaningful doing so in the shadows masks the strength or scope of the exercise. However having polish troops standing in Мариуполь, does mean the Russians would have to justify going into a full fledged war on Europe which I doubt.

On Thursday, 16 December 2021, the NATO Secretary General, Mr. Jens Stoltenberg, will receive the President of Ukraine, Mr Volodymyr Zelenskyy. The Secretary General and the President will give a joint press point at NATO HQ after their meeting

Russian forces in Donbas have carried out drills to exercise switching to full combat alert among the motorized infantry, artillery and armored units and getting them deployed to assembly points

The Verkhovna Rada approved the decision of the President of Ukraine on the admission of units of the armed forces of other states to the territory of Ukraine in 2022 to participate in multinational exercises

German FM @DmytroKuleba: "The fact Putin is searching for a new ideological justification concerning Ukraine suggests that he is on the verge of something big: an attempt to fundamentally rewrite the security order in Europe, to part the continent into new spheres of influence

Oh and funny stuff here,

Blinken faced an unusual situation during his visit to Indonesia: a competing visit from Putin's NSA Patrushev. "I noticed his plane on the runway next to ours," Blinken says. He's not sure why he's here, notes the top Eur diplomat is in Ukraine now, then onto Moscow

# ? Dec 15, 2021 04:17

Orthanc6: Nov 4, 2009

Grouchio posted:

Russia says it may be forced to deploy mid-range nuclear missiles in Europe

(Why would you feel the need to announce this, Russia? Do you intend to use them?)

As with everything with nukes, the point is not to use them, the point is to discourage them being used against you. Having multiple methods, speeds and ranges for deploying nukes makes it next to impossible for an adversary to find a weak spot where they might be able to use a nuke and save themselves from the retaliation. The US certainly can't stop Russia's ICBM's now, but they are working to get to that point and making a lot of progress. So rather than rely on a tool that might be compromised in the future, deploying medium range nukes that give next to no warning gives Putin that much more security. On top of the usual propaganda boost from deploying big weapons.

# ? Dec 15, 2021 10:07

ephex: Nov 4, 2007; PHWOAR CRIMINAL

Brown Moses posted:

There's a good article in German that goes over the details and background of the Berlin trial. It's long, but here's an extract

The hearing begins at 11am local time, and we're expecting the verdict pretty quickly.

He has just received a life sentence.

# ? Dec 15, 2021 11:29

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Spiegel reports the judge accepted the order came from the Russians as well, so now it's all down to the political reaction.

# ? Dec 15, 2021 12:18

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Here's the Spiegel write up, Google Translated below

quote:

In the trial for murder in the Kleine Tiergarten in Berlin, defendant Vadim Krasikov was sentenced to life imprisonment for murder and illegal possession of weapons. The Berlin Supreme Court considered it proven that the Russian citizen had shot a Chechen-born Georgian in the park in the middle of the capital in August 2019.

In addition, the court is convinced that the murder was carried out on behalf of state authorities of Russia. "The act was meticulously prepared by helpers stationed in Berlin," said Chairman Judge Olas Arnoldi in the grounds for the verdict. According to the court, the defendant is an officer of the Russian domestic intelligence service FSB, to whom further contract killings abroad are assigned. He is said to have gotten a bogus identity for the crime in Berlin.

The judges also recognized the particular severity of the guilt. This practically excludes early release from prison. The judgment met the demand of the Federal Prosecutor's Office, which had taken over the investigation and the indictment because of the special importance of the case. The defendant's defense did not consider the accusations against Krasikov to be proven.

Several shots up close

According to the court, the 56-year-old today met on the 23rd. August 2019 approached the victim from behind on a bicycle in the Kleiner Tiergarten Berlin park. Up close, he first fired two shots at the 40-year-old with a silencer gun. So when the victim lay on the ground, he shot him in the back of his head. The man, who had lived in Germany as an asylum seeker since the end of 2016 and had been classified as a terrorist by the Russian authorities, died at the crime scene.

According to the court, the killed person was considered an enemy of the state, especially because he had fought against Russia in the Chechnya war. Russian President Vladimir Putin had called the murdered Georgian, who is said to have fought on the part of the separatists in the Russian Republic of Chechnya, a "bandit" and "murderer".

At the beginning of the trial, the defendant had disputes connections with the Russian state and the FSB intelligence service and had his lawyers explain that his name was Vadim Sokolov, was 50 years old and civil engineer.

The case and the investigation into it weigh heavily on the relationship between Russia and Germany. After the crime, the federal government expelled two Russian diplomats in response. The Russian side rejected the accusations of a state contract murder as baseless.

# ? Dec 15, 2021 12:41

Somaen: Nov 19, 2007; by vyelkin

Is there precedent of a case like this? What happens now?

There's a bunch of cases where assassins are just hidden by Russia and get government positions an rewards. Pretty cool to have him rot in prison, even if the quality of life in a German prison is better than his normal life judging by the lovely khrushchevka of navalny's assassin

# ? Dec 15, 2021 12:57

aphid_licker: Jan 7, 2009

Wonder who the Russians are gonna take hostage to get him back, seems like it would be bad for morale in the murderer corps to just let him rot?

# ? Dec 15, 2021 17:17

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

aphid_licker posted:

Wonder who the Russians are gonna take hostage to get him back, seems like it would be bad for morale in the murderer corps to just let him rot?

I don't think they are disputing the murder itself, only his connection to the Russian state. So, why would the honorable Russian state want a depraved murderer back?

And anyway, I don't think Putin likes losers who get caught. Best case scenario for them is that he slips and falls out of a window.

# ? Dec 15, 2021 17:30

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

I am sure this totally private citizen's totally independent action against a traitor to the Fatherland will be thoroughly rewarded with statements from the foreign ministry about the troubling state of German justice system.

(And nothing beyond hot air).

# ? Dec 15, 2021 17:40

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

China's Xi reportedly backs Putin in Russia's bid for security guarantees from the West

here we go boys. The multi polar world is back in action.

мы никогда не будем рабами

Here's some more good stuff from the busy day of negotiations:

Zelensky discussed with the new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz the possible membership of Ukraine in NATO

(This will surely stop Russian aggression!)

Washington: Moscow has handed us proposals on European security, and we will discuss them with allies

Yeah this is going to go south really loving quickly now.

the Europeana discuss ukraines future as a NATO partner ? What the gently caress?

The alliance will be weakened by this wish washy poo poo. You will regret this!

WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 15, 2021

# ? Dec 15, 2021 17:44

Plastic_Gargoyle: Aug 3, 2007

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

China's Xi reportedly backs Putin in Russia's bid for security guarantees from the West

here we go boys. The multi polar world is back in action.

мы никогда не будем рабами

Here's some more good stuff from the busy day of negotiations:

Zelensky discussed with the new German Chancellor Olaf Scholz the possible membership of Ukraine in NATO

(This will surely stop Russian aggression!)

Washington: Moscow has handed us proposals on European security, and we will discuss them with allies

Yeah this is going to go south really loving quickly now.

the Europeana discuss ukraines future as a NATO partner ? What the gently caress?

The alliance will be weakened by this wish washy poo poo. You will regret this!

Is there a reason you aren't using the quite function for this, because it makes it seem like word salad this way.

# ? Dec 15, 2021 20:11

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

lol https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1471433806796271617

please tell me the defense was "but we have no troops deployed in the LNR and DNR"

# ? Dec 16, 2021 12:02

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

CMYK BLYAT! posted:

lol https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1471433806796271617

please tell me the defense was "but we have no troops deployed in the LNR and DNR"

Nonsense, DNR and LHR in the document mean do-not-resuscitate and love-hate relationship. NATO Mossad hawks faking evidence once more!

# ? Dec 16, 2021 12:22

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016

military personnel providing humanitarian aid, obviously

# ? Dec 16, 2021 12:23

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

CMYK BLYAT! posted:

lol https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1471433806796271617

please tell me the defense was "but we have no troops deployed in the LNR and DNR"

Oh no, they forgot the pretense.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 12:45

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

CMYK BLYAT! posted:

lol https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1471433806796271617

please tell me the defense was "but we have no troops deployed in the LNR and DNR"

The link doesn't seem to work. Did they delete it already?

E: Saved on Web Archive
https://web.archive.org/web/2021121...=&text_number=1

\/\/\/ It's not in the link that's in the tweet, so it was clearly deleted.

Paladinus fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Dec 16, 2021

# ? Dec 16, 2021 13:31

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Paladinus posted:

The link doesn't seem to work. Did they delete it already?

It's there.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 16:49

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

CMYK BLYAT! posted:

lol https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1471433806796271617

please tell me the defense was "but we have no troops deployed in the LNR and DNR"

Surely just a confused judge. Someone will talk them shortly to lift the confusion.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 16:58

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

Hopefully the talk will be far away from any opened windows, lots of weird accidents happen.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 17:07

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

GABA ghoul posted:

Surely just a confused judge. Someone will talk them shortly to lift the confusion.

The official explanation is that it's just what the defendant claimed, but he can't be trusted, obviously, because he's a fraudster.

# ? Dec 16, 2021 19:06

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Quiet day today on the western front.

9 Ceasefire violations today. Up from 2 the day before.

Now the solution will be shielding Ukraine by fast tracking NATO membership. My question is what will the recourse be if Russia catches wind that it's going to happen? My thought is they take the L on sanctions to not have NATO missile batteries 200 miles south of Moscow. As this would be literally what they are fighting against by positioning 200k troops on the border.

The army is also preparing supply lines and medical posts for lasting combat.

# ? Dec 17, 2021 04:48

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

ukraine is not joining nato

# ? Dec 17, 2021 06:50

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

i say swears online posted:

ukraine is not joining nato

I agree with you. But the language in some of these speeches implies the opposite. The example below is not related to this NATO statement

quote:

French Foreign Minister: We must engage in negotiations to find a political solution to Ukraine crisis

# ? Dec 17, 2021 06:54

Budzilla: Oct 14, 2007; We can all learn from our past mistakes.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

I agree with you. But the language in some of these speeches implies the opposite. The example below is not related to this NATO statement

Joining a multi-national institution can't be done over a weekend. Georgia (or to be more specific the president) wanted to join NATO but there were obstacles involved. Georgia had internal conflicts with South-Ossetia and Abkhazia that are conflicts deliberately backed by the Kremlin. A similar situation is happening in Donbas. I don't like guessing the future but Ukraine joining NATO won't happen unless major changes happen.

# ? Dec 17, 2021 09:54

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Belarusian border control claim a Polish soldier called Emil Czeczko crossed the border and asked for political asylum in Belarus. So far they only posted a couple of photos from last year.

No official statement from Poland yet.

E: His unit confirmed that he's missing, but didn't confirm he was in Belarus.
https://twitter.com/16Dywizja/status/1471782699371274244

Meanwhile, he's doing an interview with a Belarusian state TV channel, I guess.

Paladinus fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Dec 17, 2021

# ? Dec 17, 2021 10:03

wisconsingreg: Jan 13, 2019

something about the box of tea and sweets just brings that to the next level

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:09

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

That set is giving me serious 90s public TV flashbacks Those ugly armchairs, that even uglier tablecloth, those random plants :pwn:

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:17

nurmie: Dec 8, 2019

steinrokkan posted:

That set is giving me serious 90s public TV flashbacks Those ugly armchairs, that even uglier tablecloth, those random plants

belorussian media has never really progressed past early 2000s sensibilites

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:21

wisconsingreg: Jan 13, 2019

https://ria.ru/20211217/bezopasnost-1764226189.html

quote:

-exclude further NATO expansion and Ukraine's accession to the alliance;
-not to deploy additional military and weapons outside the countries in which they were in May 1997 (before the accession of the Eastern European countries to the alliance) - except in exceptional cases with the consent of Russia and NATO members;
-abandon any NATO military activities in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Transcaucasia, Central Asia;
-not to deploy intermediate and shorter-range missiles where they can hit the territory of the other side;
-not to conduct exercises and other actions with more than a brigade in the agreed border zone, regularly exchange information about military exercises;
-to confirm that the parties do not consider each other as opponents, to consolidate the agreement to resolve all disputes peacefully and to refrain from the use of force;
-make a commitment not to create conditions that might be perceived as a threat by the other party;
-create hot lines for emergency contacts.

https://twitter.com/DmitriTrenin/status/1471799631243886598

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:30

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Russia can gently caress off with this functional attempt to revise USSR into existence. I am, though, impressed by the brazen inclusion of terms such as �don�t do things other side my perceive as a threat�.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Dec 17, 2021

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:36

Somaen: Nov 19, 2007; by vyelkin

Does he think Lukash has balls of steel??

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:36

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# ? May 13, 2024 23:10

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

Polish defence minister now claims the soldier had problems with the law and shouldn't have been at the border in the first place, and was about to be discharged anyway.

https://twitter.com/mblaszczak/status/1471802397605384193

Not sure I'm buying it, to be honest.

# ? Dec 17, 2021 12:55

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