|
Unlike Wintergrasp and every other vehicle in wow, riding a bike in the Flame Leviathan was loving fun.
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 16:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 00:33 |
|
|
I played a free server version of classic wow and decided I didn't really like it, even with the improved gameplay rules in effect on the server. Never tried any expansions that came out after.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
Pryce posted:Have you never seen the first boss of Ulduar?? lol one of my friends was in a smaller guild during that expansion that decided the first thing they were going to do in Ulduar was hard mode flame leviathan, just brute force bashing their stupid dumb heads against it until they won the vehicles health scaled with gear but I guess gearing up a bit after naxx was the cowards way out
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 16:40
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I think the big issue in Wintergrasp was that the WoW playerbase did not, does not, and probably never will like vehicle combat. Especially back in Wrath, when Blizzard's big vehicle push was at its strongest. To be fair, WoW's vehicle combat was really terribly executed, so it's no wonder no one liked vehicle combat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
Another turtle made it to the water!
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
Stalins Moustache posted:i love ffxiv but tbh wouldn't surprise me if FFXIV was the first to get into it 
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 23:12
|
|
|
Speaking of old school WoW, why has WoW: Classic gone from so beloved to so hated in like six months time? Besides Blizzards skeletons coming out of the closet of course.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Speaking of old school WoW, why has WoW: Classic gone from so beloved to so hated in like six months time? Besides Blizzards skeletons coming out of the closet of course. I think that they promised "no changes" but there were changes. Also, I think the general goings-on at Blizzard have soured people to Blizzard in general. I dunno, I haven't played it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Speaking of old school WoW, why has WoW: Classic gone from so beloved to so hated in like six months time? Besides Blizzards skeletons coming out of the closet of course. I think "no changes" was supposed to be a big thing, but with TBC they made changes to skills/items, added a paid level boost, and a mount that never existed, etc. souring people on it. Regarding GW2, people complained about vanilla PvE being too easy, so they tried giving people the harder content they wanted in HoT, and then they wanted that "faceroll" content back.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:06
|
|
|
By going from #NoChanges to #ADecentAmountOfChanges and also introducing paid boosts and cash shop stuff, they alienated the people who cared about Classic in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:06
|
|
|
Managing to piss of both sides is blizzard’s specialty E: wrong thread but frankly it’s true
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:10
|
|
|
If they had done #SomeChanges from the start it wouldn't be so bad. But lmaorofl they stuck to #NoChanges out of a desire to do loving nothing to this dumb broken old game when it launched. Then they did #ThemChanges and it was loving bad
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
Jesus. How hard is it to just release the game with freshened up asserts and leave the rest of the game as is?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
The WoW classic community has also been progressing down the toxicity road since launch as casual players have slowly bled out. I played briefly at TBC launch and it was a hot mess. The only folks left playing are vanilla WoW tryhards, which is a pretty obnoxious group that cares VERY DEEPLY about the “right” way to play a game that’s almost old enough to vote.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 00:33
|
|
|
They also just flat out failed to shoot the gap, it was typical Blizzard faire. Things that benefit players? gently caress 'em. Insane inordinate grinds because of where they chose to stick the mechanics patch levels? Sure thing. The TBCC initial honor grind was one of the most insane things I've ever seen, because they patched in end-of-expansion honor rewards with beginning costs that counted on like 5x that amount of honor coming in or something crazy like that. It actually led to better honor being had by humping dungeon entrances. They also left the first two "raids" up from TBCC release on 7/1 to 9/15, keep in mind SSC and TK were actually available from the expansion launch alongside Kara and Gruul. Servers/guilds started dying with boredom and farm status. Definitely didn't feel like they paid attention to the timelock eq/eq2 servers where they release the next expansion within 3-4 and the content patches nearly every month -- then just start over and transfer all the characters to live that existed on the TLE. That or, you know, just Blizzard trying to milk it way too hard and extend it. Shocking, right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
Botting and gold farmers got really out of control on Classic too. I thought this was a good video about how real poo poo everything got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy89LRQ9muw
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 02:25
|
|
|
I like that a lot of raiders would log in only to get their world buffs, and then log out until raid time so they don't expire.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 02:28
|
|
|
Sintor posted:They also just flat out failed to shoot the gap, it was typical Blizzard faire. Things that benefit players? gently caress 'em. Insane inordinate grinds because of where they chose to stick the mechanics patch levels? Sure thing. The TBCC initial honor grind was one of the most insane things I've ever seen, because they patched in end-of-expansion honor rewards with beginning costs that counted on like 5x that amount of honor coming in or something crazy like that. It actually led to better honor being had by humping dungeon entrances. They also left the first two "raids" up from TBCC release on 7/1 to 9/15, keep in mind SSC and TK were actually available from the expansion launch alongside Kara and Gruul. Yeah, the patch roadmap was waaaaay too long for a solved rear end game like this. I poopsocked up to doing a rag, then typed in /g "I'll see you guys in Gurabashi" but it took so long the world ended a second time. Just the last bit of blizz bullshit I put myself through.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
#SomeChange - You had stuff that more or less had to be changed. Not playing because your world buffs are going to expire is just silly. Bot cartel's owning all the high end mats, not good as well. In fact servers had 4 or 5 times the population but with no changes to spawn systems mean your just going to get owned. True classic my server had 2-3 raiding guilds who ran the same time as my guild, we got lagged out any time any team was doing Vael. If you think Vael is hard, try to do it when taunt can fail for no good reason and you have a window of about 4 seconds for the next tank to pick up the boss AND get heals moved to that tank because this is a 4 tank fight. Modern gamers vs Classic WOW is a true no win situation, bugs are just well known, information moves much faster, and modern tools mean people know what is going on and the effect of various interconnected systems. Then we get the bots, OMG the bots, you can figure them out in short order but no back end data guy is there hunting them in the logs at all. I mean here are a few I can come up with in short order... - Toon is in the same area for hours, days, longer then any human would ever stick around - Toon is in the game for more then 18 hours a day (days in a row, not on new xpac launch) - Toon is overusing the same action (pick pocket) longer then any normal account would need for acheav etc. Half of the above could even be made open ended to detect new attacks as soon as the community finds them. That poo poo where hunters were doing DM endlessly, or rogues where pickpocketing endlessly in an instance would all quickly climb to the top of one of the above lists and warrant a GM looking to see what's going on. Sure, super advanced AI systems that play almost like players like a PVP heal bot who follows someone around, heals them, nukes targets occasionally might be indistinguishable from a real player, but we're not really looking for that, we're looking for the dumb bots who gather on top of mining nodes, or camp low level mini dungeons for cash selling, and the stats really do not lie for stuff like that, but few games ever use stats like this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 04:34
|
|
|
My understanding of the WoW situation internally at Blizzard, is that all of Blizzards currently supported, and in development games, are understaffed. They are short staffed by as many 2000 artists, programmers, and managers. They are not being given the resources necessary to put out new games and content, and morale is so low at Blizzard, that those who are working on things are not able to produce content at their most professional and best levels.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 05:55
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:My understanding of the WoW situation internally at Blizzard, is that all of Blizzards currently supported, and in development games, are understaffed. They are short staffed by as many 2000 artists, programmers, and managers. They are not being given the resources necessary to put out new games and content, and morale is so low at Blizzard, that those who are working on things are not able to produce content at their most professional and best levels. I could see that considering the pay sheet that was linked last year. Weren't they paying a SQL dev like 65k in Irvine, CA. That should be criminal. Back in the day, Blizzard could get away with just their reputation. "Yeah, we're going to pay you poo poo, but you get to work on World of Warcraft!" Who in their right mind would want to work there now?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 06:07
|
|
|
Plus there's the simple fact that Classic WoW was designed for half the player base to be on dial-up and for nobody to know what a stat was. People pretty quickly realized that most of the classic WoW raids were 10-20 man raids at best with the other 20-30 people being pure filler that barely needed to contribute. If everyone was actually contributing things die in seconds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 08:13
|
|
|
Ibram Gaunt posted:Botting and gold farmers got really out of control on Classic too. Here is another short animation that sums up what happened to WoW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Hzh43k330 Endorph posted:Plus there's the simple fact that Classic WoW was designed for half the player base to be on dial-up and for nobody to know what a stat was. I think that extended to the developers judging by how many items had do-nothing stats in classic. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Dec 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 10:25
|
|
|
Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I think that extended to the developers judging by how many items had do-nothing stats in classic. I assume that came from a Diablo 2 way of thinking, that good gear could have bad stats on it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 10:33
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Plus there's the simple fact that Classic WoW was designed for half the player base to be on dial-up and for nobody to know what a stat was. People pretty quickly realized that most of the classic WoW raids were 10-20 man raids at best with the other 20-30 people being pure filler that barely needed to contribute. If everyone was actually contributing things die in seconds. does that mean that OG c'thun wasn't actually mathematically impossible to beat before the fixes? I remember that being a whole thing way back in the day
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 12:06
|
|
|
blatman posted:does that mean that OG c'thun wasn't actually mathematically impossible to beat before the fixes? I remember that being a whole thing way back in the day By the time he was released connections and content was getting "better". Ultimately c'thun's RNG was punishingly bad as you needed several perfect things happen, healers never getting targeted for special effects, and even then your a few million damage in the last phase away from being successful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Here is another short animation that sums up what happened to WoW This is perfect, the OG game was all about the journey, the end game was the start of new journeys (keying for raids, doing other stuff) This plays into the best part of D&D being when your low or mid level, access to level 9 spells casting doom and wish are end game events that signal time to start a new game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:My understanding of the WoW situation internally at Blizzard, is that all of Blizzards currently supported, and in development games, are understaffed. They are short staffed by as many 2000 artists, programmers, and managers. They are not being given the resources necessary to put out new games and content, and morale is so low at Blizzard, that those who are working on things are not able to produce content at their most professional and best levels. If Blizz flubs Overwatch 2 or Diablo 4 they're probably done for. I mean, as long as they have people subbed to retail WoW (which, looking at EQ, will probably be forever) I suppose they'll exist in some form, but the Blizz from the 2010s seems like it's likely a thing of the past.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Isn't OW2 already flubbed?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 16:41
|
|
|
Also the wild dps pushes in classic are part of exploiting really big world buff sequences that nobody would tryhard enough to get going in 2004, as well as having multiple people with the highest rank pvp gear (the crucial thing that enabled doing Hakkar with all the bosses up).
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
kedo posted:If Blizz flubs Overwatch 2 or Diablo 4 they're probably done for. I mean, as long as they have people subbed to retail WoW (which, looking at EQ, will probably be forever) I suppose they'll exist in some form, but the Blizz from the 2010s seems like it's likely a thing of the past. I can see WoW dropping the subscription fee sooner rather than later, and going buy to play where you just pick up the next expansion as it releases.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
hazardousmouse posted:Isn't OW2 already flubbed? Yeah, all of their current in development games are way behind schedule, by 1+ years or greater, because they don't have the staff to finish them. This year was really rough for Blizzard, they saw all of their major leadership quit the company, their lead devs quit, Bobby Kotick is their CEO now, and Final Fantasy XIV surpassed WoW in subscriber numbers by possibly as much as 10,000,000 subs. WoW is currently sitting at 1.5 - 2 million subs, maybe even less than that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 18:24
|
|
|
Is the WoW trial still capped at 20 levels? Good lord. At least pull a FFXIV and give people access to a few older expansions or something. I'm not a great business person, but it seems to me if you have two competing products, and one offers an extremely limited trial and the other is an extremely open-ended trial, I can't imagine the former is going to hook people all that much.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 18:31
|
|
|
Protocol7 posted:Is the WoW trial still capped at 20 levels? Good lord. At least pull a FFXIV and give people access to a few older expansions or something. WoW's level squish and latest expansion make this a bit weird. All prior expansions up until the latest one, are geared for levels 1 - 50, and then the newest expansion is 50 - 60. So I think trials do get access to everything? But how Blizzard should do it is that they should make level 1 - 50 free, and then after that you have to sub, or simply just buy the new expansion and then you can keep leveling up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 18:33
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:WoW's level squish and latest expansion make this a bit weird. All prior expansions up until the latest one, are geared for levels 1 - 50, and then the newest expansion is 50 - 60. So I think trials do get access to everything? But how Blizzard should do it is that they should make level 1 - 50 free, and then after that you have to sub, or simply just buy the new expansion and then you can keep leveling up. Yeah I was gonna suggest this. That's the kind of content that might hook someone, too, because especially in recent expansions, the initial leveling and questing experience is often pretty good. They could trick people into thinking the stuff after that might be fun too 
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
I couldn't even get through the intro quests in the latest expansion because everything was just so boring and full of heavy handed dialogue. I spent so much time listening to people I don't know talk about how Sylvanas killed death or whatever, and this is a BIG PROBLEM, and my eyes rolled back in my head and I died irl. They also did something between Wrath (when I stopped playing retail) and now that made generic quest-related combat feel incredibly easy that there's basically no challenge anymore. The only way I had fun, for all of about 15 minutes, was to do the old, "now what happens if I pull this entire room?" move to keep things spicy. The answer is I could still burn everything down in approximately 5 seconds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 21:02
|
|
|
Protocol7 posted:Is the WoW trial still capped at 20 levels? Good lord. At least pull a FFXIV and give people access to a few older expansions or something. Who the gently caress is doing Mists or Warlords of Draenor raids, except to farm rare mounts or whatever? And they'd want do to those with the smallest groups possible for less competition on the mounts, so a level 50 couldn't get in.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
Endorph posted:The issue is that literally everything that isn't the most recent expansion is dead content in WoW. FF14 can give you Award Winning Expansion Heavensward and have it actually be a nice gesture because Heavensward is a 40 hour JRPG with an expansive plot and a lot of content that people still do for the sake of it. Like the Alliance Raids and the 8-mans in Heavensward, people still do those. You might have trouble finding a group for the literal most difficult stuff but you can totally play through the normal modes of the 8-mans and enjoy the plot and see the fights. Yeah WoW's expansions are closer to retractions. Each one introduces a new area that might as well be the only area, and new systems that will be thrown away when the expansion ends. You can't go back to Legion and play through that content the way it used to be because the artifact weapons no longer unlock the class abilities they used to. There's no point in engaging in any of the BFA systems because all the features and gear are obsolete 10 seconds into SL. So the sum total of the game is whatever 5 of 6 zones you get in the current expansion, and everything else is tossed out the window. The only reason anyone engages with anything in the original world any more is because Blizzard decides where to put the portal hub, and that's where the players will be. This lack of vision isn't recent, either. They were starting to gently caress it up back in the very first expansion, BC. They made two new player cities, then bemoaned the fact that nobody went to them, when it was their own decision to not have any convenient portals leading to either of them. I personally loved Silvermoon and went out of my way to use it as my main hub, and I paid for it with a lot of wasted time. They did a good thing with flight, but painted themselves into a corner. They expanded level cap by 10, unlocking flying at cap, which works exactly once: you go through the zones on foot, you hit cap, you get flight, then the zones open up because there were max level areas with new poo poo to do that could only be accessed by air. It was like unlocking a mini-expansion. Subsequent expansions didn't have the luxury of locking away flight by level cap, since you already had it, so they had to introduce this bizarre pathfinder achievement, which is time gated, and is basically them saying "you'll fly on our schedule, not yours. Look at our landscaping until we tell you it's OK to stop." And they did away almost entirely with putting poo poo in the game you needed flight to reach, so flying was just to minimize wasted time. And we can tell how much Blizzard hates to waste your time, just look at where the flightpaths in Shadowlands are - if you want to do a world quest in another zone, get a program you've been meaning to watch queued up on Netflix, because they placed all the important flight paths at the maximum distance from the zone border, and you're going to be flying through 5 loving loading areas for each jump. In contrast, FFXIV unlocks flight by zone: do the main quest for the zone, then a couple random quests, then grab a few aether currents which amounts to a zone tour, and boom, you're flying. And as a bonus every zone has cool poo poo you need flight to reach, so there's a reason to do it beyond the travel convenience. This approach worked so well they've kept it in the game for 4 expansions and it works as well now as it did when it was introduced. It's almost as if they planned ahead and put some thought into it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2021 01:17
|
|
|
kedo posted:I couldn't even get through the intro quests in the latest expansion because everything was just so boring and full of heavy handed dialogue. I spent so much time listening to people I don't know talk about how Sylvanas killed death or whatever, and this is a BIG PROBLEM, and my eyes rolled back in my head and I died irl. It felt like they had a change in Cataclysm, the third expansion, when they revamped the level 1-60 areas. They began funnelling you through your levelling by way of forced semi cutscenes, with you riding different modes of transportation between quest clusters. Before that, it was much more freeform, with random quests to be found just off the beaten path.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2021 01:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 00:33 |
|
|
I said come in! posted:My understanding of the WoW situation internally at Blizzard, is that all of Blizzards currently supported, and in development games, are understaffed. They are short staffed by as many 2000 artists, programmers, and managers. They are not being given the resources necessary to put out new games and content, and morale is so low at Blizzard, that those who are working on things are not able to produce content at their most professional and best levels. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2021 01:43
|
|
