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https://twitter.com/krangtnelson/status/1471521186651815937?s=21
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Dec 16, 2021 22:10
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Kenshin posted:42s are quite capable of going down the coconut run to Australia Congratulations! You know what they say about the best two days of owning a boat... Could you talk more about how you selected down to this boat? Also could you talk about how much sailing experience you have and what your intended usage is? I know thats basically asking for an essay but any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. I've been looking at sailboats literally my entire life, and its basically now or never. I've sailed before, insomuch as been on a sailboat under way and someone said 'pull this line some', but my parents had a ski boat & uncles were commercial divers so I've been on the water most of my life. I'm looking for something large enough to make passage, and the Catalinas have appealed to me. As pointed out itt, they're not really the traditional bluewater boats but a lot of people have sailed them pretty much everywhere. Performance is not a concern whatsoever, ease of sailing and comfort and durability is my number one concern.
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Dec 17, 2021 20:51
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Vampire Panties posted:Congratulations! You know what they say about the best two days of owning a boat... Sure, first my sailing experience, I learned to sail in 2013, got my ASA courses up through 106 including 114 between 2013-2014. Been doing charters not quite every year since, one in the BVIs, one down in Mexico, the rest in the San Juans up here in Puget Sound. Also have done plenty of daysailing on Puget Sound through a local sailing club. How I selected this boat? I paid for this service and based on what I want to do, my age, budget, etc, I had a set of filters on YachtWorld with some of my parameters. I looked every week and also had auto-alerts set up, which is how this one came up. I had not actually been looking at Catalinas before the consultant told me I should be. For some reason some people think they are like Hunters but they're quite well built, especially these 42s. My plans are pretty loose, but I'm looking at spending the next 2-ish years here in the Puget Sound area learning the boat, maintaining it, upgrading it, and (though not yet) living on it. Once it's ready and I'm ready, my partner and I will start heading South, then who knows from there--either across the Pacific or through the Panama Canal into the Caribbean. It's also possible that after a few years I decide that while this boat is super comfy to live on, I'd rather cross oceans in something a bit more substantial. This boat will not be hard to sell, if needed. I just had the survey and sea trial today. It went really well. The surveyor said this is one of the cleanest and best maintained boats he's seen in a while. Heck the guy at the yard hauling it out commented on how good condition it was in. Kenshin fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 01:59
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Kenshin posted:Sure, first my sailing experience, I learned to sail in 2013, got my ASA courses up through 106 including 114 between 2013-2014. Been doing charters not quite every year since, one in the BVIs, one down in Mexico, the rest in the San Juans up here in Puget Sound. Also have done plenty of daysailing on Puget Sound through a local sailing club. Thank you for the answers, and using a consulting service is brilliant. Sorting through boats is worse than horse trading haha. Would you mind sharing some of the other boat models you were considering? It seems like we have very similar goals (2 people, sail locally on the west coast for 1-2 years while upgrading / retrofitting, and then either going south to Panama or across the Pacific) Again, congrats on the boat. I wasn't familiar with this specific model and its really a beautiful boat. Catalinas just seem to 'fit' in so much more boat than other models the same length.
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Dec 18, 2021 02:29
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Vampire Panties posted:Thank you for the answers, and using a consulting service is brilliant. Sorting through boats is worse than horse trading haha. Would you mind sharing some of the other boat models you were considering? It seems like we have very similar goals (2 people, sail locally on the west coast for 1-2 years while upgrading / retrofitting, and then either going south to Panama or across the Pacific) Honestly the list of models was huge, I was even willing to look at one-offs and custom boats for the right price, as I really enjoy DIY and am looking forward to maintaining this boat. Mostly though I can tell you I generally ignored listing for Hunters and C&Cs as neither is suitable to my desires. There's nothing wrong with them for coastal sailing, though! I also had other preferences that eliminated perfectly-good-for-my-purpose models such as Pacific Seacraft. (I really don't like double-enders or big overhanging sterns) It really came down to what was in my size & budget. I was looking at 38'-50' boats, no older than I am (so, 1984 or newer), with a focus on 42'-46' vessels, which is of course what I ended up with. Generally my searches were set about 30-50% higher than my budget so I could get good comparisons with boats just out of my reach financially. Part of the benefit of Catalina is that the company still exists and has excellent customer support, even for their older models. Also there's a ton out there, so the owners network is also huge.
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Dec 18, 2021 02:36
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Kenshin posted:I really liked the look of a 1994 Passport 44 that was for sale down in Portland, but it was sale pending before I had a chance to go down and look at it. Thanks again for the response. I agree w/r/t Hunters and C&Cs, I've been on one of each and they struck me as fine for daysailing but I wouldn't want to travel the world with them. Of course people have sailed all sorts of boats all over the place. I'd been looking at a more traditional double ender because I'm more concerned about passage performance, but it makes it less fun to use in the day to day. I haven't chartered or taken any sailing courses yet, so I should probably do that before committing to anything.
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Dec 18, 2021 02:44
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Yes, I'd strongly recommend doing both of those things first so you have an idea of what you like in a boat. Everything on a boat is a compromise in some way for something, and personal preferences in what you like to do and the living/sailing space that makes you comfortable will change quite a bit which models you're looking at.
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Dec 18, 2021 03:02
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Kenshin posted:For some reason some people think they are like Hunters but Most people's first experiences with Catalina were probably a Catalina 22 or Catalina 25/27/30/36 which all use the same basic design/construction but scaled up; Catalina is synonymous with "most boat for least cost, reasonably safe" or "like a macgregor, but more sailboat than powerboat" I don't think that "screw the bulkhead to the hull liner" construction method really scales well past 36' so maybe that's why the 42 is of better construction, I haven't looked into it Fun fact up until the mid 80s the hunters were actually pretty respectable, stout, fast boats; Chris something something out of LA is drat near 80 and sails his hunter 38 to Hawaii pretty much every summer, solo, if you search for "why we sail" on YouTube it should pop right up. Scott the guy who runs sailing anarchy (sailboat racing forum) has a hunter 36 or 38 of the same vintage because the J36 is too wide for his boat slip. At some point Hunter went bankrupt and someone bought the name and now they're just a floating hot tub with a mast and two sails, and, like you mentioned, are terrible build quality now I did come in first in cruising non spin class in some guys' hunter 46 on a harvest moon regatta a decade ago so I guess they're not all terrible Still mildly skeptical about the build quality of this Catalina 42 but I guess I'll take your word for it
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Dec 18, 2021 05:04
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Kenshin posted:I just had the survey and sea trial today. It went really well. The surveyor said this is one of the cleanest and best maintained boats he's seen in a while. Heck the guy at the yard hauling it out commented on how good condition it was in. I'm not saying this particular one, but something to keep in mind is that there are very few qualifications to become a surveyor. I have seen one decent one and several terrible ones in the last year. Like can't do compression checks on outboards or has to borrow our laptop to pull hours off of a motor with the diagnostic program bad. Or spending time criticizing the number of steps leading into the cabin but missing that the nav and anchor lights don't work.
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Dec 18, 2021 06:44
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Hadlock posted:
Yep, especially in the context of disparaging the seaworthiness of a C&C, good lord. The things are built like brick shithouses.
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Dec 18, 2021 17:44
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Crunchy Black posted:Yep, especially in the context of disparaging the seaworthiness of a C&C, good lord. The things are built like brick shithouses.  I didn't disparage the seaworthiness? quote:as neither is suitable to my desires. There's nothing wrong with them for coastal sailing, though! quote:Still mildly skeptical about the build quality of this Catalina 42 but I guess I'll take your word for it Kenshin fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 18:43
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I grew up and around my family's 1983 Catalina 30 so my opinions on the brand are extremely tightly held I'm sure it's fine. Like I said, the forces on a 36 foot boat and a 42 foot boat are approximately double, necessitating improved construction methods compared to "eh, this'll probably work" eyeballing-it engineering of the 1970s
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Dec 18, 2021 22:45
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You can definitely find places where Catalina skimps, both macro (hull liners) and micro (pipe nipples glassed into the hull instead of proper thruhulls on our 81 30 was a shocking discovery). I think that over the years they have actually dialed out a lot of the little areas of chintz and they compare really favorably to anything coming from the other volume builders like Beneteau or Jeanneau these days.
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Dec 21, 2021 01:14
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Rime fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 6, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2021 01:22
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Rime posted:Idly browsing around and, low and behold, a 1979 HC38T MKII with pullman layout appears for sale in BC. Only the second I've ever seen in a decade. For a reasonable $75k. Check the pregnancy and parenting megathreads.
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Dec 21, 2021 01:50
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Rime posted:, the ruminations of this caused me to realize that spending $5-$8k on something in the 25-27 foot range, which I could anchor to a few buckets of concrete in English Bay and fool around on for a few years, would be much saner than If I could do my 20s over again I'd buy a 27' boat with a 4.5 or 5' keel and a flush toilet 27' is just large enough for two grown rear end adults to sail/livaboard comfortably and have enough elbow/storage room to not want to kill the other person/yourself for buying such a tiny boat It's hard to overstate how much larger/more expensive a 40' boat is than even just a 35' boat, and if you're on a budget going down two sizes (-> 30 -> 27, yes 3' is a full step) is going to yield a whole hell of a lot more budget as the weight is considerably less Lin and Larry Pardey got along just fine on a 24' boat, and serafin had moderate overhangs by 1970s standards 25 feet is getting way down there though, I would only consider that if you're like 120lbs and 5'4" or something The only major downside of a $5000-8000 27' boat is that it was owned and maintained by someone else who thought they could only afford a $5,000-8000 boat; anything that moves on that boat will need replacement, so budget another $4000 for replacement parts Sam Holmes has something like a cape dory 27 I think that's a really stellar boat and the correct size for what you want to do etc Anything larger than a 32 foot boat is largely vanity or if living aboard, needed for space with a second person. Ryan and Sophie Sailing, they're in a $100k beneteau 40 and that's a lot of boat for just the two of them, but they live very comfortably
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Dec 21, 2021 03:17
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Hadlock posted:
We have a Catalina 25 and Im 62. It drives me insane but we trailer it sometimes so its about as big as we could go while being trailerable. It would be untenable if not for the pop top. Definitely 27 minimum if it stays in the water. quote:Sam Holmes has something like a cape dory 27 I think that's a really stellar boat and the correct size for what you want to do etc Yeah he has a Cape Dory 28 and it seems perfect.
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Dec 21, 2021 05:20
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Oh yeah Catalina 25 is a great trailer sailer, quite spacious inside, no question on it's ability to sleep a friendly family of 4 for a week. This guy is talking about full time livaboard cruising status You can certainly cruise on something smaller, a magazine has been running this old geezers articles for years, decades maybe, he's a full time cruiser in a Moore 24. Anything is possible. I think his boats name is Garnet? Or some gemstone
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Dec 21, 2021 07:58
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I inherited a 1999 34' Bavaria and I'll have to replace pretty much everything that moves for the upcoming season. Some because of lovely maintenance by previous owners, some due to old age, and some because I was too hosed up to both A) do the right stuff last winter or B) ask for help in time  It's not going to be cheap. At least the standing rigging is good, and I have a new furling genoa, but the mainsail is probably toast. Still worth keeping over selling it as a project boat for $15-20k (real value is north of $35k if in good shape) and trying to find something decent and not too small for $20-30k that isn't abused. I have no problems handling the 34 anyway, and I absolutely adore the extra room in it compared to the 29 we had before. If I was starting from scratch, I'd get an older 29-30 ft boat and just deal with it not being very big. Sailing beats not sailing.
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Dec 21, 2021 12:08
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Rime fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 6, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2021 17:51
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Kenshin posted:Also have done plenty of daysailing on Puget Sound through a local sailing club. Which sailing club? I'm relocating to Seattle next year, and I'm looking for a good one. I've found Seattle Sailing Club, and they seem cool, but I'd love any recommendations you have.
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Dec 21, 2021 18:21
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Safety Dance posted:Which sailing club? I'm relocating to Seattle next year, and I'm looking for a good one. I've found Seattle Sailing Club, and they seem cool, but I'd love any recommendations you have. That's the one, and they're great
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Dec 21, 2021 18:38
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We brought the boat up from Tacoma to Seattle on the 1st and couldn't have asked for better weather. Cold as hell yes, but calm with just enough wind from our rear quarter that I was able to get an extra knot of speed motoring by unfurling the genoa. Made better time than I'd predicted by nearly an hour. Going through the Ballard Locks was easy and fun (only one other boat in the small boat locks with us when we went through!). The hydronic heater keeps the interior comfortably warm, so every time someone needed to retreat from the cold on deck they'd head below for a few minutes and warm up.
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Jan 3, 2022 08:31
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It's not too cold as long as you don't have to dodge ice 
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Jan 3, 2022 18:00
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Rime fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 6, 2022 |
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Jan 19, 2022 23:28
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The problem with redoing the deck on a boat is that you have to remove all the deck hardware. There are on average about 200 things bolted to the deck, the further before 2005 you get the higher that number climbs. You can try and recover all of these things, each object has an average of three fully corroded in place bolts, or you can just remove them with an oscillating tool, which at 15 min per object is about 50 hours. Then you need to sand down to bare fiberglass, fill the holes with epoxy, and when you're done drill new holes and mount the grossly outdated hardware. Any broken hardware will need to be rebought and mounted as well In my head I'm trying to do the mental calculus on wether or not it's actually cheaper and faster to cut off the old deck, cut out the deck hardware with a sawzall, patch the holes with plywood, and use it as a mold for a new deck. If you buy it for $35k yeah minimum you're looking at $15k just for the deck alone, probably another $20k in updating everything inside the boat, as well as wasting the best years of your life on a project that has at best a 50% success rate That said, post pics when you start this project, always love watching a restoration in progress
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Jan 19, 2022 23:42
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Sounds like a good project for a YouTube channel and get your patrons to pay for everything! Lol.. Good luck, that does look like a very nice boat. and money pit
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Jan 20, 2022 01:09
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Yeah sailing videos on YouTube get classified as lifestyle, which is like the... number 9 highest/best monetized category on YouTube out of... A lot, like 500, the only higher paying videos per view are get rich fast/financial advice videos... which seems like a dark pattern, but whatever. Plus arguably you can write off significant chunks of your refit costs as a business expense, maybe (I'm not a tax professional, do your own research)
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Jan 20, 2022 07:39
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Rime fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 6, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 00:44
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Rime posted:Always depressing to see owners let poo poo fall apart to this extent, for these rare boats which still command pretty high resale prices when they aren't left to rot. Compromised deck sandwich I could repair, but that thing would require multiple years of yard time. $5k would be a generous offer. ergh. Offer them $1, and prepare to sleep out under it in summer to get the work done.
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Jan 21, 2022 01:02
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Rime fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Aug 6, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 01:13
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Rime posted:It's like 46' LOA, I'm not paying $1000/month in yard fees at the only DIY yard in the province for the next five years There's a couple of YouTubers who ended up buying or renting industrial land (1/4 acre) for like $20,000 and then just had the boat towed there and worked on it. I guess when you're done you could either sell the land or just keep it as an asset. Property taxes on a plot of land like that are a rounding error on a boat budget But yeah I think the best option is to pick a popular model from the late 80s or early 90s that already has had the engine replaced and is in good working order, go sail that until you run out of money. Big heavy blue water boats with 1960s construction and design are huge and need expensive oversized hardware. You can pick up a 15 year old beneteau 30 for a song and go back and forth across the Caribbean or Atlantic all year long no problem besides the usual chafe. 15 year old boat still has 5 years of life left in all the systems, you can just replace them as they age out, modern materials mean good rudder, no osmosis/blisters, lighter weight, better corrosion/uv resistance Beneteau first 42 are a nice boat if you can find one, about the oldest boat I'd consider, though against better judgement if I were still still single I might consider a bristol 27 simply because they're literally bulletproof, about half inch fiberglass hull all around as the legends gossip about. Cal 40 are fun too but any derilict model is gonna need just as much TLC as the boat you had surveyed
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Jan 21, 2022 09:39
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Duracell is going to pick up Taxi Dancer's old rig? Surprised it was still lying in the yard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch05v58gIec
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Jan 21, 2022 14:11
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My house battery is on its last legs and lead-acid loving sucks, so the time has come for winter project: build an LiFePo4 battery bank. Braindump/ follows.I've done a fair bit of reading already and the other week I pulled the trigger on 4x280Ah EVE cells, supposedly grade-A and matched, from an Alibaba seller generally regarded as reliable by the DIY community (Shenzhen Luyuan). They'll get here in late February, probably. Now, 280Ah is way, way more than I have any reasonable need for. I have no inverter and no plans nor space for one, nor any electric winches, windlasses or bow thrusters, so my power consumption is basically the fridge, lights, kerosene heater, and USB devices. 4x280Ah fits in the available space though and shipping was so expensive that it felt stupid to go for anything smaller. I also don't have much in the way of charging - basically just a single 75W solar panel and a 60A very basic alternator attached to a very small diesel in a poorly ventilated engine compartment (if I want to use it to charge the LFP bank at all I'll definitely need current limiting, probably a DC-DC charger), so being able to run the boat on battery power for like two weeks without any charging at all sounds pretty funny. These cells are good for 6000 cycles if treated right, and given my usage pattern, if I don't mess this up I'd expect this bank to last for as long as I want to keep the boat. I do plan to keep the lead start battery though. Now, the next question is which BMS to choose. I'm going to type out some words here mostly to try to get things straight in my head but by all means please  your opinions. My requirements are fairly modest: I really don't need super high currents, even 100A is realistically at least 3-4x overkill compared to what I can realistically power today, and a 120A one would probably be enough for a 1500W inverter if I ever were to get one. I could also live without low-temperature charge protection since I don't use the boat in winter, but it'd sure feel better to have it. It would be nice if the BMS could signal something like a DC-DC charger (looking at Victron options here mostly) to stop charging, but it's not entirely necessary either assuming it can disconnect charging on its own and that the DC-DC charger can be configured to not overcharge LFP. With that said, the options I've considered are:1) JBD/Jiabaida. A rebranded and QC'd version of this is sold in the US as "Overkill solar". Does the usual cheap BMS thing where all current passes through it - it's effectively one big MOSFET circuit breaker on the negative battery terminal. Can disable charging/discharging independently of each other, but I have no idea how it does it. Diodes probably? Seems slightly sketchy. Does have low temperature protection. Seems very widely deployed, and the Overkill documentation is very good. Has monitoring via Bluetooth, and the app is open source on iPhone which is good for longevity. No active balancing, but I don't think I want that anyway? Very cheap, costs ~100 or less, but only available direct from China (ordering from Overkill may be possible but it'll at least double the price). 2) Daly. Very similar to JBD in design, but also comes in bigger sizes that I don't need. Bluetooth via proprietary(?) app. Somewhat poor reputation on DIY forums. Has no meaningful advantages over JBD that I can see, and it's also slightly more expensive than JBD. Can be found via local resellers though. 3) 123 Smart. Not Chinese; Czech. Completely different architecture, controls bistable relays instead of passing current through the BMS itself. Technically that's a superior solution with less interesting failure modes (MOSFETs tend to fail by shortcircuiting themselves), but possibly overkill for what I'm actually doing? Reportedly doesn't have the greatest measuring accuracy??? (unverified rumor) Also has monitoring via bluetooth; proprietary app but the company seems decently robust. Doesn't seem to get used a lot in local DIY circles for whatever reason, possibly because it's pretty expensive (~350). 4) REC/Batrium/Orion - all capable of doing a lot of cool stuff, but they're out of my price range (they all effectively cost more than the cells did, which makes no sense). 5) JK. JBD-like in architecture but does active balancing. Doesn't really support 12V systems though. 6) HLP Data. Local homebrew solution by "some guy". Seems very technically sophisticated but you interact with it only via terminal commands, UART-over-bluetooth if necessary. I can deal with that but I really don't want to subject my fellow boaters to it. As you might be able to tell I'm leaning JBD, only question at this point is the pre-soldered cables which I don't like. Overkill offers an option for M6 screw terminals which would be much preferable, but the JBD Aliexpress store doesn't. They do sell a variant though that's intended for connecting 4S packs in series with each other that does have screw terminals, and it's about the same price too, so that might be an option assuming it doesn't do anything weird/different compared to the normal one. Brain dump over. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 01:23
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I don't have any advice on this topic as my boat wasn't a good candidate for lifepo4 conversion That said, double check that your boat's alternator is compatible with lifepo4 chemistry, a lot of them have some "intelligence" (I hesitate to call them smart) that will float the battery up to 14.x volts for N time to top off the lead acid battery and then over time drop the bus voltage to 13.6 or whatever I don't think you'll destroy the battery with the 12v lead acid battery programmed alternator, but you might want to look into replacing it if you want to retain maximum life
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Jan 24, 2022 01:39
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Hadlock posted:I don't have any advice on this topic as my boat wasn't a good candidate for lifepo4 conversion The alternator is very, very dumb. It and the LFP bank are not allowed to talk to each other directly under any circumstances, because if they do they'll destroy each other. If this alternator has a float mode it takes a long rear end time to get to it because most of the time when I look at it it's at 14.4V or so, so it'd ruin the LFP bank quickly (you really can't float charge LFP, you'll just end up overcharging it and damaging the cells). On the other hand the LFP bank would also ruin the alternator very quickly, because it can easily accept 60A of charge current, and this 60A alternator with poor airflow will almost certainly overheat and burn up in pretty short order if you try to actually get it to output 60A for an extended period of time. Instead I'm planning to let the alternator charge the lead-acid start battery as normal and charge the LFP bank with a 20 or 30A DC-DC charger from there. Unsure what size to go for but hopefully the alternator can handle half of its rated current for a sustained period. I would like better engine compartment ventilation but it's not so easy to route. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 01:47
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I think you're on the right track overall. Much simpler and safer to leave the lead-acid engine system in place, isolated. What's the size of vessel we're talking here, I'm guessing ~30ft based on your description.
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Jan 24, 2022 02:01
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Crunchy Black posted:What's the size of vessel we're talking here, I'm guessing ~30ft based on your description. 41ft  ... but only 8ft wide. I posted about it when I bought it a couple years ago. Classic Swedish Baltic coast archipelago vessel, looks great and gets ashore everywhere but really isn't intended for any sort of bluewater cruising. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 02:06
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So this is probably opening up a can of worms, but as someone who understands nothing about sailing nor sailing culture - Whats the deal with motorsailers? It seems like they can motor, or they can sail, or they can motor AND sail at the same time... but its my understanding even the term is a bit of a misnomer because any sailboat with a motor is technically a motorsailer? From the research I've done, it seems like specific motorsailors incorporate certain powerboat features to be easier to motor while making compromises on the ease & performance of sailing. Also it seems like every traditional sail/powerboat captain sorta hates them, but from an outsider perspective they seem like an easy way to get into cruising? Does anyone happen to know anything about the LM30 specifically?
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Jan 24, 2022 04:40
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Vampire Panties posted:So this is probably opening up a can of worms, but as someone who understands nothing about sailing nor sailing culture - Generally motorsailers will have a smaller SA/D than other sailboats, and usually a larger engine. In general they have poor light wind performance because of this (since you're assumed to be using the engine anyway in light winds). I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with them at all if that fits your use case, but most folks consider them to be for older people who don't want to pull on lines as often. You can motor just fine in most sailboats if you want.
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Jan 24, 2022 04:44
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