(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Alaois posted:i don't know what a "film bro" is it's like 'hipster', nobody does, it just means 'my perceived enemies'
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Dec 18, 2021 23:06
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Discourse changed a lot since FF, which is wild considering it's not been that long, I think it's good that we see her stuff as basic but there's a place for it. Like making a video on abuse, maybe MK would get it then, allegedly.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:10
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All this talk about the film bros but we never stop to consider the feelings of film hos.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:14
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Working on my 5h video essay, The Complete History of Film Hoes, an extensive review of agriculture and farming in movies.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:22
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edogawa rando posted:Last thing I remember from her is getting dunked on by Lexi Alexander for some bodaciously bad takes about Mad Max: Fury Road, and being told to get hosed. I think I recall that. Anita said something like Fury Road wasn't feminist and people lost their minds, and the interesting thing was a few people were like "well, maybe not to the wave you subscribe to" but she didn't respond to any of it and I can't blame her really.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:41
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Dawgstar posted:I think I recall that. Anita said something like Fury Road wasn't feminist and people lost their minds, and the interesting thing was a few people were like "well, maybe not to the wave you subscribe to" but she didn't respond to any of it and I can't blame her really. Her reasoning was pretty loving stupid, as I recall. "The movie was violent," was one of them, and it was pretty clear she completely missed the point in the casting of the Wives.
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Dec 18, 2021 23:42
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fun hater posted:porpentine is a weirdo who threw down for her pedophile friend. this conversation is a mess and all these people are freaks that should have been forgotten about 5 years ago. I mean, that person wasn’t the only person who’s said that they were harmed by Merritt, and even huge messes can be victims of abuse
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Dec 19, 2021 00:00
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yea it was partially because the violence was inherently unjustified to have in and some other weird stuff about the wives. She's not a very good media critic, she's like Macintosh, not on a bad side per say, good intentions and all, but genuinely just not good at engaging with media from a critical lens and falling back to personal things like 'I hate violence' and trying to make a critical stance from there. Like with the Licorice Pizza thing, she took the personal stance of 'I thought they didn't do a good enough job making it clear the racist white guy is absolutely presented as the rear end in a top hat and the people just smiling and nodding are also assholes' and took it out to an objective stance of 'this movie was actually endorsing racism'. Plus just in general the whole 'here's some talking points for how YOU can frame your discussion of the movie' framing was just really patronizing and dumb.
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Dec 19, 2021 00:01
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What sucks about Licorice Pizza discourse is that most people haven't been able to see the movie yet so there's a lot of secondhand info going about. At least when The Last Duel had its moment under the discourse sun it happened a few months after it was in theaters!
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Dec 19, 2021 00:07
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edogawa rando posted:Her reasoning was pretty loving stupid, as I recall. "The movie was violent," was one of them, and it was pretty clear she completely missed the point in the casting of the Wives. I only saw like two of her videos, since I didn't care for them much (too basic, exclusively focused on white feminism, she didn't seem very comfortable on camera), but she seemed to like talking about cultivation theory with regards to violence a lot. I think that's true (IE depictions don't make you violent but can reframe how you perceive violence), but I'm by no means a sociologist and it seemed kinda beside the point. Dunno about the bit about the wives though, as I didn't watch the video. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 19, 2021 |
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Dec 19, 2021 00:14
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sexpig by night posted:She's not a very good media critic, she's like Macintosh, not on a bad side per say, good intentions and all, but genuinely just not good at engaging with media from a critical lens and falling back to personal things like 'I hate violence' and trying to make a critical stance from there. This is a massive disservice to her. She's not great but McIntosh is far worse. No one likes a puritan and he's of the kind that's only afforded to privileged, white liberals.
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Dec 19, 2021 00:16
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thetoughestbean posted:I mean, that person wasn’t the only person who’s said that they were harmed by Merritt, and even huge messes can be victims of abuse frankly I think huge messes are somewhat more likely to BE victims of abuse, but also disregarded for it because they're annoying or hard to deal with.
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Dec 19, 2021 00:18
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Srice posted:What sucks about Licorice Pizza discourse is that most people haven't been able to see the movie yet so there's a lot of secondhand info going about. Though speaking of feminist analysis I mostly saw a bunch of people desperately trying to dismiss the woman who was a co-writer on TLD to dunk on it
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Dec 19, 2021 01:28
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sexpig by night posted:you can't just say anyone going 'you seem to genuinely not understand in this scene the white guy being racist about his wife being treated as totally normal is in fact the entire point of the scene and thus a very obvious criticism of how people behaved in the time' is some insane ride or die Magnolia head summoned to war! So you think Walter Chaw is exagerrating too? https://twitter.com/mangiotto/status/1470193200878866433
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Dec 19, 2021 01:50
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thetoughestbean posted:https://ibb.co/album/GvR5kc is a collection of screenshots of people speaking about how she treated them That paragraph about consent in gay male spaces she tweeted out makes me furious. "If someone grabs you by your privates it means they're interested in you! Just brush it off!" is molester logic. Christ almighty.
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Dec 19, 2021 02:03
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JordanKai posted:That paragraph about consent in gay male spaces she tweeted out makes me furious. "If someone grabs you by your privates it means they're interested in you! Just brush it off!" is molester logic. Christ almighty. the only reason I know about merritt at all is people I follow getting weirded out by stuff like that before they'd delete it
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Dec 19, 2021 02:21
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Anyway for real though, I don't think Anita Sarkeesian is as bad as Jonathan McIntosh gets as far as wrapping specific fixations around into "this is a societal ill" but her stuff can have that grating "Your fav is problematic" energy to it like a late 2000s tumblr blog where it's like "Yeah no poo poo." And maybe some of it is to keep it simplistic so it's approachable for people who aren't well-versed in those topics, but it does also flatten down issues that have a lot of complex layers to them which really shouldn't be smoothed over especially when that kind of reduction itself can be problematic too. Then posting all this poo poo on twitter on top of it all, where you can't really talk about things with any depth, which is a perpetual rage engine, and being a person all sorts of bitter psychos still obsessively melt down over with every tweet.... and yeah it's a mess. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Dec 19, 2021 |
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Dec 19, 2021 02:32
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Anita Sarkeesian reminds me of the guy from The Kings of Kong who challenges the psycho hot sauce guy. She’s a regular person who has wandered into realms of extremely niche discourse by weird subcultures made of people who are not really anywhere near normal culture and who have maybe chosen to abandon it in favor of obsessive sorts of discourse that are not super legible from outside. The reason she doesn’t reply to any tweets is because she uses twitter as an announcement platform and doesn’t engage with anything there, which is totally alien to all the freaks who live there 24/7 (I say this with all respect, as one who can’t stop posting) and can’t stop broadcasting their every thought into the void. She reminds me of my professors from school, in that they were perfectly nice people who were smart about lots of things but would only occasionally get whiffs of online things secondhand through articles in the Atlantic or something, then shrug and go on not really caring or understanding because it was all totally outside of their context.
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Dec 19, 2021 03:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGjzo5UtZ18&hd=1 I am very excited
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Dec 19, 2021 04:08
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So what is the deal with Licorice Pizza? It looks like pretty standard indie fare which means I would probably hate it on principle, but why does everyone else care?
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Dec 19, 2021 04:28
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BrianWilly posted:So what is the deal with Licorice Pizza? It looks like pretty standard indie fare which means I would probably hate it on principle, but why does everyone else care? The director is one of the most well-regarded living film directors, which is why it got all this attention. Then because of all of the film nerd attention it got it started getting mainstream attention for a few different reasons (dearth of theatrical comedies, big names, about Hollywood), but there are a few story aspects that are controversial. For starters, the entire movie is a Hollywood-adjacent LA romance set in the 1970s between a precocious 15 year old boy and a 25 year old woman. It resembles a lot of the director’s previous works because it feels sort of like industry insider/LA nostalgia. The thing Anita Sarkeesian tweeted about was a character in the film who is based on a real guy who owned one of the first Japanese restaurants in LA who was wildly racist to his Japanese wives. It gets into the “how do you depict racism without making its victims the butt of the joke” conundrum; people who like the movie will tell you that the guy is shown to be a buffoon by the way he acts, and people who disagree (like Walter Chaw, whose review was linked above) say that the movie doesn’t actually say anything about his racism beyond its depiction and the way it depicts his wives (both Japanese, somewhat stereotypical of Asian women in Hollywood, speaking Japanese while seemingly comprehending English perfectly fine) doesn’t do anything to convince the viewer they’re not just a part of the joke.
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Dec 19, 2021 04:43
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Related anecdote: I watched Tropic Thunder for the first time in a while for a class. I loved that movie when it came out and watched it regularly for a while but hadn’t done so recently, and the only time I heard about it in the interim was people remembering that RDJ almost won an Oscar for a role where he was in blackface, which seems wildly offensive. But watching the movie, it goes through great pains to not just show his character doing something dumb and wrong-headed, but also having other characters, including his black costar, point out the flaws of what he was doing, especially when he revealed the limit of his knowledge about blackness and just started quoting The Jeffersons and poo poo. As far as portraying bigotry goes, Tropic Thunder does a great job of not just depicting but tearing it apart, which is why that part of the movie has aged surprisingly well. Of course, in literally the exact same movie, there is also a perfect example of how you can do that poo poo wrong. The movie is actually wildly offensive to mentally handicapped people, and it’s easy to forget that all of the protests of the movie at release weren’t done by the NAACP but by disability-advocacy groups. All of the things they do to make it clear that RDJ’s character is in the wrong weren’t given the same consideration for Stiller’s, and even though they are framed as doing the same thing, you can tell that the movie doesn’t actually feel the same way about disabled people by the way they’re talked about, how they’re rendered invisible aside from Stiller’s caricature, and the words they used (and one word in particular that was absolutely everywhere in comedy in 2008). The same movie can be an example of how you can do depiction of bigotry right and wrong, and it sounds to me like Licorice Pizza swings way closer to the latter
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Dec 19, 2021 04:57
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DC Murderverse posted:Related anecdote: I watched Tropic Thunder for the first time in a while for a class. I loved that movie when it came out and watched it regularly for a while but hadn’t done so recently, and the only time I heard about it in the interim was people remembering that RDJ almost won an Oscar for a role where he was in blackface, which seems wildly offensive. But watching the movie, it goes through great pains to not just show his character doing something dumb and wrong-headed, but also having other characters, including his black costar, point out the flaws of what he was doing, especially when he revealed the limit of his knowledge about blackness and just started quoting The Jeffersons and poo poo. As far as portraying bigotry goes, Tropic Thunder does a great job of not just depicting but tearing it apart, which is why that part of the movie has aged surprisingly well.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:04
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Not to speak on the movie itself but a lot of monolingual Americans seem to think being good at understanding a language means you're good at performing it and those are two very different skills.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:23
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Rockit posted:I assume the whole “Full retard” is just chopped liver. Not saying you’re wrong since I haven’t seen that movie that’s literally a scene that manages by itself to dunk on stillers’ whole thing. Like I said, the movie knows that what Stiller’s character and RDJ’s character are doing is the same, but that scene sort of illustrates my point. The movie avoids RDJ using any racial slurs and actually makes a funny joke about him getting all Cosby on Brandon T Jackson for using it despite being a white guy in blackface. But in the scene you mention and multiple others across the film they use that word without blinking. There’s no disabled equivalent to BTJ, it’s not seen as bigoted, it’s seen as bad taste (which bigotry is too, but it doesn’t actually get at the biases that Hollywood has regarding disabled people). That’s the reason it was seen as offensive at the time and the part of that movie that’s aged the worst without question.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:24
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DC Murderverse posted:Like I said, the movie knows that what Stillers character and RDJs character are doing is the same, but that scene sort of illustrates my point. The movie avoids RDJ using any racial slurs and actually makes a funny joke about him getting all Cosby on Brandon T Jackson for using it despite being a white guy in blackface. But in the scene you mention and multiple others across the film they use that word without blinking. Theres no disabled equivalent to BTJ, its not seen as bigoted, its seen as bad taste (which bigotry is too, but it doesnt actually get at the biases that Hollywood has regarding disabled people). Thats the reason it was seen as offensive at the time and the part of that movie thats aged the worst without question. When I watched Tropic Thunder that was pretty much my takeaway too, it's very clear that RDJ's character is the butt of the joke and what he did was essentially blackface, but at the same time you have Ben Stiller's Oscar bait role and yeeesh.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:25
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DC Murderverse posted:Like I said, the movie knows that what Stiller’s character and RDJ’s character are doing is the same, but that scene sort of illustrates my point. The movie avoids RDJ using any racial slurs and actually makes a funny joke about him getting all Cosby on Brandon T Jackson for using it despite being a white guy in blackface. But in the scene you mention and multiple others across the film they use that word without blinking. There’s no disabled equivalent to BTJ, it’s not seen as bigoted, it’s seen as bad taste (which bigotry is too, but it doesn’t actually get at the biases that Hollywood has regarding disabled people). That’s the reason it was seen as offensive at the time and the part of that movie that’s aged the worst without question. As you said, you've just taken a class about this, and you're in the middle of it. But you can't think too hard about it. You think too hard about it and you make the same mistakes as people that think too little about it. I realize this make no sense. But some things have to be experienced. Have you seen the movie Rain Man? Then you will see what they were making fun of.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:36
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Clip-On Fedora posted:As you said, you've just taken a class about this, and you're in the middle of it. But you can't think too hard about it. You think too hard about it and you make the same mistakes as people that think too little about it. I know exactly what they’re making fun of, the movie literally calls it out: Rain Man, Forrest Gump, it’s not subtle. I don’t not get it, I’m saying that despite their messaging, it comes off as offensive, which is disappointing because in the same film they’re able to pull it off about a different very offensive topic without becoming offensive. Again, it’s instructive to look back at the release of the film itself. They showed the movie to the NAACP and disability advocates. Only one of these groups protested. They didn’t protest because they didn’t get it, they protested because, despite the intent of the work, it still came off as demeaning. If every single character in the movie referred to black people as racial slurs through the entire movie but kept the rest of it as is, it would very much change the tenor of the work.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:52
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It's not making fun of Rainman, it's making fun of Riding The Bus With My Sister. That's why it doesn't work.
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Dec 19, 2021 05:58
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DC Murderverse posted:I know exactly what they’re making fun of, the movie literally calls it out: Rain Man, Forrest Gump, it’s not subtle. I don’t not get it, I’m saying that despite their messaging, it comes off as offensive, which is disappointing because in the same film they’re able to pull it off about a different very offensive topic without becoming offensive. Ghostlight posted:It's not making fun of Rainman, it's making fun of Riding The Bus With My Sister. I never watched Riding The Bus With My Sister, so I can't comment on that. But it does speak to a larger problem of expecting comedy to do the heavy lifting for society. Comedy is not supposed to do that. Comedy is supposed to be a salve for minor wounds. A way of smoothing over minor transgressions so everyone can forgive and forget and get along. Expecting it to be anything else is perverse.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:08
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It’s making fun of Hollywood’s tendency to reward actors for putting on identity and calling it a deep/quality performance, whether it’s Rain Man, Forrest Gump, Genghis Khan, I Am Sam, Dallas Buyer’s Club, Theory of Everything or The Danish Girl. This isn’t about one particular identity over any others, but when in the process of mocking Hollywood for its pretension you casually demean the people you’re supposedly sticking up for, your point gets muddled.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:09
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Garrand posted:It's Christmas, so Civvie talks the 2013 Rise of the Triad This review reminds me I hate Gears of War it was single handedly responsible for ten years of two weapon limits, running down liner halls, hiding behind chest high walls and regenerating health. I hope that someday Civvie will unleash all his hate and anger on that loving game.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:09
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DC Murderverse posted:It’s making fun of Hollywood’s tendency to reward actors for putting on identity and calling it a deep/quality performance, whether it’s Rain Man, Forrest Gump, Genghis Khan, I Am Sam, Dallas Buyer’s Club, Theory of Everything or The Danish Girl. This isn’t about one particular identity over any others, but when in the process of mocking Hollywood for its pretension you casually demean the people you’re supposedly sticking up for, your point gets muddled. The problem is people don’t put that word on the same level as the other words, and it’s evident here on this forum as well. So I don’t know.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:10
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DC Murderverse posted:It’s making fun of Hollywood’s tendency to reward actors for putting on identity and calling it a deep/quality performance, whether it’s Rain Man, Forrest Gump, Genghis Khan, I Am Sam, Dallas Buyer’s Club, Theory of Everything or The Danish Girl. This isn’t about one particular identity over any others, but when in the process of mocking Hollywood for its pretension you casually demean the people you’re supposedly sticking up for, your point gets muddled. Oh no, I get that. But still, when the King hides behind the court fool to do the heavy lifting for them, that's still a serious problem, isn't it? Bill Hicks was a funny man in the 90's, but elevating him to the status of philosopher king was a terrible mistake.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:17
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CelticPredator posted:The problem is people don’t put that word on the same level as the other words, and it’s evident here on this forum as well. But that’s why it’s aged so poorly: that has largely changed. The casual use of that word, especially in comedies, has changed dramatically over the last decade or so, largely due to the same sorts of groups that came out and said “hey, this is demeaning” when Tropic Thunder came out. The blackface part hasn’t aged poorly because there’s nothing regressive about it’s use because the surrounding movie makes it very clear why it’s use is wrong. The parts about Simple Jack are, because of the demeaning language used through the rest of the movie making it unclear what the movie actually thinks about mentally disabled people. It was wrong then and is wrong now, but it’s taken a lot of work and time to get people to that point.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:20
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I think the issue was that Ben Stiller performing as the neurodiverse character was played for laughs and not really treated with the same disdain as RDJ's decision to go blackface was. It was more of a career fuckup and a bad performance instead of method acting as an excuse for racist poo poo.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:22
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Clip-On Fedora posted:I never watched Riding The Bus With My Sister, so I can't comment on that. Jokes can also just be bad. Saying "it's comedy" doesn't excuse it from needing consistency in the point it's making. The movie mocks Hollywood portrayals of neurodivergence as condescending and hamfisted, and then goes on to play neurodivergence as a joke and throwing around slurs. You can't be a "salve for minor wounds" by making fresh cuts.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:23
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Dias posted:I think the issue was that Ben Stiller performing as the neurodiverse character was played for laughs and not really treated with the same disdain as RDJ's decision to go blackface was. It was more of a career fuckup and a bad performance instead of method acting as an excuse for racist poo poo. It felt like it was a shot at Radio, the Cuba Gooding Jr movie and similar real films that basically turn a person with severe mental disabilities into a melodramatic "one of the good ones" mascot story. It's like how people will coo over videos of a person with down's syndrome doing a basic task the same as when they see a cat or dog do something uplifting.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:28
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Clip-On Fedora posted:Oh no, I get that. I’m gonna be honest I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Like I get that you’re trying to say that we shouldn’t expect comedy to solve societal issues. Maybe my comparison of a movie that has no desire to do so (Licorice Pizza) and a movie that exists to skewer Hollywood’s ideals was a bad one. The point I’m trying to make is that no matter what you make, whether it’s a studio comedy or an Oscar-bait drama or an indie dramedy, if you’re trying to make a joke out of someone being a bigot, you can’t just leave it at that because in your audience you’re going to have both people who it goes over the head of who think that it’s funny because it’s true and people for whom who don’t think it’s funny because they have to live with that poo poo. Seeing people uncritically saying those things with the implication that it’s funny because it’s absurd having no weight.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:29
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My scorching hot take is those people are going to exist no matter what. Django Unchained spent almost 3 hours showing how cruel and awful racism is and yet I hear white people quote like 3 lines with the n word in it and laugh every time. Those people would still do that even if QT showed up at the end to say “hey this was not a good time for black people please don’t be racist it’s bad” Making art for them is stupid. I don’t need goodfellas to tell me being in the mob is horrible and destroys yours and everyone’s life around you…I can use my brain to see this lmao.
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Dec 19, 2021 06:33
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