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To complety stop expanding the intercountry grid is one of the most out there political proposals ever. And not in a good way.
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Dec 17, 2021 06:18
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Sounds good to me, it was about further integration with continental europe, not a complete stop.
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Dec 17, 2021 06:55
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His Divine Shadow posted:I've seen bourgoise people praise Nooshi Dadgostar lately for this. Some, the real free market believers don't like it. I find it exhausting that stupid idea like this make it all the way to the leader of V. Energy doesn't work like this and Texas is a perfect example of what happens when you go isolationist om electricity. It's loving moronic not-even-polulism. Also, what is solidarity Nooshi? Why gently caress the world for our benefit, even if the idea was not super dumb on a technical level?
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Dec 17, 2021 07:12
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The two examples are not alike, texas isolated itself so it could deregulate harder. And this isn't about isolating the grid from everyone either, just stopping further integration with continental europe who have hosed up their own electricity supply despite warnings it would happen. I have zero solidarity with Germany, they will still shut down more nuclear power plants in 2022 despite it all and worsen the situation. They hosed themselves, they are loving the world, the economy and the climate with their idiot policies.
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Dec 17, 2021 07:23
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It's not about solidarity though, it's about physics, industry and climate change. A bigger grid is more stable, more effective and more resilient.
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Dec 17, 2021 07:48
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His Divine Shadow posted:The two examples are not alike, texas isolated itself so it could deregulate harder. And this isn't about isolating the grid from everyone either, just stopping further integration with continental europe who have hosed up their own electricity supply despite warnings it would happen. I have zero solidarity with Germany, they will still shut down more nuclear power plants in 2022 despite it all and worsen the situation. They hosed themselves, they are loving the world, the economy and the climate with their idiot policies. Texas failed to balance the grid and killed it's population while robbing everyone blind. How are we supposed to balance our grid with ever increasing demand without increasing capacity to handle fluctuations in load? Or is this a case of "electricity hard" and me misunderstanding the problem? We export ten times the amount of energy to Finland and Denmark compared to Germany. Also gently caress us for importing Norwegian electricity, right? The whole market seems stupid and under regulated. E: MiddleOne posted:It's not about solidarity though, it's about physics, industry and climate change. A bigger grid is more stable, more effective and more resilient. On a fundamental and real level yes. But in this case it's about optics in politics. And the optics are awful Potrzebie fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 07:50
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New swedish industry is literally being built today on the assumption of importing cheap peak danish/dutch wind in the south and (potentially) stable nuclear from Finland in the very north.
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Dec 17, 2021 07:54
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MiddleOne posted:New swedish industry is literally being built today on the assumption of importing cheap peak danish/dutch wind in the south and (potentially) stable nuclear from Finland in the very north. That seems like quite a risky thing to do.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:16
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Potrzebie posted:Texas failed to balance the grid and killed it's population while robbing everyone blind. How are we supposed to balance our grid with ever increasing demand without increasing capacity to handle fluctuations in load? Or is this a case of "electricity hard" and me misunderstanding the problem? Norway, Denmark and Finland are still here aren't they, further integration between nordic countries is fine too. This is not about making the swedish grid isolated from all other countries ala Texas at all. It's not cutting the existing lines to europe. It's about not further expanding the integration with continental europe, primarily the germans, who are in an ever worsening energy crisis of their own design. This seems perfectly reasonable to me to want to limit further integration, that place is a poo poo show and is just gonna get worse.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:25
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His Divine Shadow posted:Norway, Denmark and Finland are still here aren't they, further integration between nordic countries is fine too. This is not about making the swedish grid isolated from all other countries ala Texas at all. It's not cutting the existing lines to europe. It's about not further expanding the integration with continental europe, primarily the germans, who are in an ever worsening energy crisis of their own design. Ok, that's less bad I guess. Still a dumb policy. Why is exports of goods good but exports of electricity bad? Both generate (over)profits to private companies, right? And both can generate less environmentally bad stuff at the place of use. And if home owners with poo poo for isolation and electrical heating are suffering there are ways to fix that that are not "make energy cheaper".
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Dec 17, 2021 08:37
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Potrzebie posted:That seems like quite a risky thing to do. Only if you ignore that a lot of renewable power generation is tied to geography. Moving electricity longer distances and having places to spend and/or store temporary surpluses are just necessary functions of having more non-plannable power generation in the EU. Danish and dutch wind-power pushing the price of electricity to zero or even negative for hours of the day is now a ever more normal function of the north-west EU electrical grid and energy intensive industries like battery-manufacturing and hydrogen need those cheap surpluses to be sustainable (or more importantly to some, economical). The Finnish nuclear question is its can of worms, the short story is simply that at current projections all the new northern swedish industrial projects are much more successful than anyone planned twenty years ago and that the Norths hydro energy surplus won't be one for much longer if things keep developing at their current pace. Land-based renewable is already pretty expanded in the north which doesn't leave too many options. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Dec 17, 2021 |
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Dec 17, 2021 08:44
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Why is the solution to cut up the European network, rather than further expanding energy production here? How is Sweden not becoming a growing supplier of electricity to the rest of the EU not beneficial to Sweden- what is the issue with German power consumption becoming more beholden to Sweden rather than Russia?quote:Ska alla dessa offentliga investeringar göras kan de inte i nästa skede rinna ut i elexport och subventioner av industrier i våra grannländer, där avkastningen framför allt hamnar som övervinster hos de exporterande elbolagen.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:51
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Potrzebie posted:Ok, that's less bad I guess. Still a dumb policy. Why is exports of goods good but exports of electricity bad? Both generate (over)profits to private companies, right? And both can generate less environmentally bad stuff at the place of use. Actually why is export of goods and profit to companies always a good thing, and the prime motivator for everything? I don't agree that those should be the only considerations. And that's a pretty broad brush you're sweeping with there if you think it's only homeowners with lovely houses that are affected by the current high energy prices. And if you think it's bad now (and it's bad now) it's only gonna get worse in europe because of the energy policies by the germans. It's pretty sound reasoning to me to want to limit our future exposure to what is going to be a complete disaster. In 2022 the germans have still learned nothing and will shutter the last of their nuclear reactors, prices will spike in europe even further and the political fallout from this will most likely hurt the EU and integration on all fronts, not help it. We're best off distancing ourselves from this disaser in the making, or at least not get further into it.
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Dec 17, 2021 08:57
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The idea that Scandinavian citizens would be the ones to win out in a global free energy market is laughable. Protectionism is the only thing that makes sense.
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Dec 17, 2021 11:36
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thotsky posted:The idea that Scandinavian citizens would be the ones to win out in a global free energy market is laughable. Protectionism is the only thing that makes sense. Yeah it's this. Whatever short term benefit the common man would see from state ownership of power production would be pulverized and privatized by the next right wing wave.
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Dec 17, 2021 11:41
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Now I can celebrate Christmas in peace. https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/8Q7pqA/gavlebocken-brann-i-natt--en-gripen
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Dec 17, 2021 13:50
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They way fees and VAT on electricity work in Norway today`s prices are essentially a flat tax. It generates a lot of revenue for the state and certain municipalities which can be used to for many useful purposes, but the burden for that revenue increase is laid mostly on those with a average or below income.
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Dec 17, 2021 17:08
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Stalins Moustache posted:Now I can celebrate Christmas in peace. That shouldn't even be illegal. Whenever it doesn't burn. Bad stuff happens. https://twitter.com/Gavlebocken/status/1471676229740814343?s=20 Someone waited 5 years to make that joke.
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Dec 18, 2021 14:33
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No, it needs to be illegal and there must be real security measures. The outcome must be uncertain and the would-be burners must face real risks. Otherwise it's not a good sacrifice.
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Dec 18, 2021 18:10
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There should be a ninja stunt course that you must pass while carrying a burning torch to be allowed to set it alight. Or crash a burning car at it. Otherwise it's too simple.
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Dec 18, 2021 18:30
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I'm surprised people don't just use a modified drone to burn it.
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Dec 18, 2021 18:45
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Feliday Melody posted:I'm surprised people don't just use a modified drone to burn it. Such drones cost, require license and training to operate near towns, and you probably have to be sober to succeed. It would take a serious drone operator to gittit done and those types probably don't want to lose their license as well as drone and get criminal record as a cherry on top! iirc they use fire retardant on the bock and at the weather typical for December your drone would also have to carry some serious flamethrower for it to work. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Dec 18, 2021 |
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Dec 18, 2021 18:52
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Nenonen posted:Such drones cost, require license and training to operate near towns, and you probably have to be sober to succeed. It would take a serious drone operator to gittit done and those types probably don't want to lose their license as well as drone and get criminal record as a cherry on top! It being illegal hasn't stopped anyone yet :p
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Dec 18, 2021 18:56
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Feliday Melody posted:It being illegal hasn't stopped anyone yet :p Well it seems to have in Gävle!
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Dec 18, 2021 18:59
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Groke posted:No, it needs to be illegal and there must be real security measures. The outcome must be uncertain and the would-be burners must face real risks. Otherwise it's not a good sacrifice. It's not a sacrifice, just a minor offering like the first tankard of mead for good harvests, a bowl of porridge to keep the farm safe, 50 000 SEK worth of tax money for the world to remember that Gävle exist. Now make it akin to a wicker man for a random gävlebo and you could probably power up that message to the next level.
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Dec 18, 2021 19:11
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The Gävlebocken Wikipedia article is a piece of art. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A4vle_goat I don’t understand how there hasn’t been a Swedish Wicker Man adaptation based on the goat, where sergeant Höwie has to spend December attempting to stop waves of drunken Swedes from completing the sacrifice. Hoping the return to fiery tradition will finally end the pandemic.
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Dec 18, 2021 21:49
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I think my favourite burning is still the drunk american who burnt it down while drunk after being told in a bar that it was a Swedish tradition. Either that or the gingerbread man with a bow and burning arrows.
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Dec 19, 2021 00:53
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Placeholder posted:I think my favourite burning is still the drunk american who burnt it down while drunk after being told in a bar that it was a Swedish tradition. Either that or the gingerbread man with a bow and burning arrows. Gingerbreadman AND Santa! That’s art
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Dec 19, 2021 09:08
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Stalins Moustache posted:Now I can celebrate Christmas in peace. nature is healing
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Dec 19, 2021 12:59
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Zudgemud posted:Now make it akin to a wicker man for a random gävlebo and you could probably power up that message to the next level. 
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Dec 19, 2021 13:05
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I just went abroad and the absolute lack of masks anywhere in public transit in Sweden remains absolutely baffling to me. The messaging gets particularly hosed now that apparently border police are wearing full face respirators https://twitter.com/fop2014/status/1473929345571987457?s=21
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Dec 23, 2021 14:59
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I work in public transport in sthlm and I see plenty of masks, even more than I would’ve expected tbh. Though it’s certainly never been as widespread in use as it is around the world.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:12
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fnox posted:I just went abroad and the absolute lack of masks anywhere in public transit in Sweden remains absolutely baffling to me. I saw someone pick and eat in his nose in Arlanda over a week ago. I’d say 2/3rds were masked at best there. It was mandated to have them on once we boarded the plane but maaaany had their noses sticking out. I’m going to look into kn95s while I’m in the states.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:13
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fnox posted:I just went abroad and the absolute lack of masks anywhere in public transit in Sweden remains absolutely baffling to me. They found a way to look even more oppressive. Impressive.
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Dec 23, 2021 15:22
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As a big fan of cringe comedy, this is amazing
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Dec 23, 2021 17:42
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fnox posted:I just went abroad and the absolute lack of masks anywhere in public transit in Sweden remains absolutely baffling to me. 
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Dec 23, 2021 17:50
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Woodenlung posted:As a big fan of cringe comedy, this is amazing Cola med armbind. Spændende.
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Dec 23, 2021 17:50
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Dec 23, 2021 22:24
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teen witch posted:I saw someone pick and eat in his nose in Arlanda over a week ago. I’d say 2/3rds were masked at best there. It was mandated to have them on once we boarded the plane but maaaany had their noses sticking out. We flew in the other day from SF to Arlanda. Air France was very diligent about making sure everyone wore surgical masks and kept them on during the flight, and also provided extras. At CDG everyone was masked, and SAS was good at enforcing masking during boarding. However once we landed at Arlanda, maybe 1/4 of people if even that wore masks - the flight attendant even had taken hers off. Living in SF, we're used to seeing everyone wearing masks indoors and on transit, but coming to Stockholm it seems almost nobody is wearing masks indoors, and certainly not on the subway, which has basically been giving us anxiety this whole time (A couple friends got Omicron in NYC and are now quarantining separately over xmas). We definitely got a few weird looks from people on the subway and tvärbanan. It's weird seeing plastic barriers at cashiers and nobody masking up, and performative signs of "please keep your distance!" (there's almost no social distancing) and "We're in this together!" (in this infection together amirite). A lot of people seem to be stuck in the mindset of april 2020 when we thought Covid spread via fomites and not via aerosols - so many people on the tram/subway with nitrile gloves and no mask. Just walking around town you wouldn't believe that there's any sort of pandemic or huge uptick in cases, all the stores and bars are packed to the gills. Took X2000 Sthlm-GBG and this lady was hacking up a lung behind us with no mask or not even covering her mouth when coughing. I hope your kids stop talking to you, kärringjävel. The recent FHM releases are so milquetoast too. "Please consider maybe wearing a mask if it's not too much and maybe don't go home for christmas if it's not too much trouble". Comparing the case rates of Stockholm vs SF, Sthlm's case rate is 20x that of SF. Despite this, swedes are getting tendonitis jerking themselves off online over "the swedish model"
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Dec 24, 2021 10:54
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Potrzebie posted:They found a way to look even more oppressive. Impressive. Wait, ticket controls are done by the cops in Sweden?
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Dec 24, 2021 10:58
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