(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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To be clear I'm in no way like demanding that she do this poo poo. I don't think women should be forced to talk about their experience sexual abuse any more than they're personally prepared to do. But if you're asking for a hypothetical which would demonstrate how she's free to discuss the details of her allegations and not under meaningful coercion, what I gave would be it. The fact that we both know there's a vanishingly small chance of that being allowed to happen publicly in China is imo pretty illustrative. If your retort is "you're just saying China is authoritarian!" well, yes, I am and it is. I'm also not using authoritarian as a pejorative because it's a valid method of organizing civilizations et al. but there's good and bad parts to it.
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Dec 20, 2021 04:59
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Some Guy TT posted:lets say for the sake of argument that peng shuai deleted the post because she thought it was a bad post and doesnt want to talk about it anymore is there literally any action peng shuai could take at this point that could convince you this was her reasoning lol i said this in the c-spam auspol thread: crepeface posted:whether she deleted the post herself or it was censored isn't clear.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:03
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shouldnt you be at work instead of posting?
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Dec 20, 2021 05:03
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LimburgLimbo posted:To be clear I'm in no way like demanding that she do this poo poo. I don't think women should be forced to talk about their experience sexual abuse any more than they're personally prepared to do. so you admit in one breath that talking about sexual poo poo in public is humiliating and not something any woman should ever have to do and in the very next one say that chinas a monstrous country because women dont just jump up at the chance to do it whenever
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Dec 20, 2021 05:04
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you could save a lot of posting effort by just admitting you genuinely believe either the CCP is holding a gun to her head 24/7 and no matter how many times she posts that she's safe and goes out in public and poo poo you're always going to assume it's fake, or you think her tiny chinese female brain simply doesn't understand what she's saying when she says 'the western media massively misrepresented what I said'.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:09
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Don't the baizuo have more important matters to deal with in their own countries than to wag their fingers at whatever internal matters are going on in China?
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Dec 20, 2021 05:15
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skipped a bunch of pages, any news?
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Dec 20, 2021 05:16
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thatfatkid posted:Posting this as an example of the smoothbrainedness we're dealing with. Literally just making poo poo up to substitute reality with their dumbass politics. that guy has previously been banned for his opinions on the age of consent 
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Dec 20, 2021 05:17
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LimburgLimbo posted:China *is* authoritarian, with good and bad parts of that. It's not some crazy take or "leaning hard" on an "angle" to say China is authoritarian and has censorship. lmao "authoritarian"
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Dec 20, 2021 05:21
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exmarx posted:that guy has previously been banned for his opinions on the age of consent lol the thread really spend pages arguing with a pedo defending gamegater
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Dec 20, 2021 05:22
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if Peng Shuai was 14 he wouldn’t have seen any problem with it
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Dec 20, 2021 05:23
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exmarx posted:that guy has previously been banned for his opinions on the age of consent Lol I'm truly shocked that a D&D mod favourite is also a creep. Also every single country is "authoritarian", singling out China as some uniquely evil authoritarian state instantly reveals one's ideological bias and paints you as someone not to be taken serious.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:27
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In America, if you fail capitalism, they kill you. 150,000 people died of poverty in the US this year, which is one reason the life expectancy is longer in authoritarian China.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:33
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exmarx posted:that guy has previously been banned for his opinions on the age of consent oh, he's mad she's too old, got it
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Dec 20, 2021 05:34
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You are a vile person mirello. You do realize that after all of the censorship about peng inside china immediately after the accusations were made, as well as the fact she up and vanished with very suspicious statements made by Chinese state media that tried to say she was fine in such a clumsy way that it made everything more suspicious. After all that, you are just going to think that she isn't being coerced by her own government? A government that stopped any mention of her rape allegations from being talked about within china!
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Dec 20, 2021 05:35
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if there wasn't a conspiracy why do I inherently distrust anything a Chinese person says????
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Dec 20, 2021 05:36
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Some Guy TT posted:so you admit in one breath that talking about sexual poo poo in public is humiliating and not something any woman should ever have to do and in the very next one say that chinas a monstrous country because women dont just jump up at the chance to do it whenever Cutting out the part where I explicitly clarify that I'm not calling China monstrous for being authoritarian, then claiming I'm calling China monstrous for being authoritarian, isn't a very good-faith argument. thatfatkid posted:Also every single country is "authoritarian", singling out China as some uniquely evil authoritarian state instantly reveals one's ideological bias and paints you as someone not to be taken serious. See above
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Dec 20, 2021 05:39
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LimburgLimbo posted:Cutting out the part where I explicitly clarify that I'm not calling China monstrous for being authoritarian, then claiming I'm calling China monstrous for being authoritarian, isn't a very good-faith argument. do you believe she's being forced to lie, y/n
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Dec 20, 2021 05:40
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LimburgLimbo posted:Cutting out the part where I explicitly clarify that I'm not calling China monstrous for being authoritarian, then claiming I'm calling China monstrous for being authoritarian, isn't a very good-faith argument. if authoritarian applies to every single state then its not particularly useful unless you're an anarchist
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Dec 20, 2021 05:45
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look fellas im just going to point out and continually insist that China is authoritarian for no reason at all. it definitely doesn't influence how I'm analysing the peng shuai drama with an ideological bias
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Dec 20, 2021 05:45
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crepeface posted:your brain is an open dish of sugar. i scoop a teaspoon out and add it to a mix of minced ginger, soy and spring onions. it will be the sauce for the scallops steaming in the wok. a delicate first course.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:55
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skipmyseashells posted:skipped a bunch of pages, any news? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bFpElbd-qs lol the description: quote:No candidates are known to be receiving cash from overseas political interference groups such as the US National Endowment for Democracy. Instead, they come from local civic groups or are independent
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Dec 20, 2021 05:57
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thatfatkid posted:look fellas im just going to point out and continually insist that China is authoritarian for no reason at all. it definitely doesn't influence how I'm analysing the peng shuai drama with an ideological bias Wait, people are saying that China isn't authoritarian? In a thread that is approximately 50% (often legitimately) celebrating the government Getting Things Done With Authority? Weird as hell. Yes, it's authoritarian, in comparison to most countries. That isn't necessarily a bad thing or a good thing, but it's a thing.
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Dec 20, 2021 05:58
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man this is tedious to read through that limbo guy is a loving idiot every time he posts here. i just want one loving thread where i can read about actual stuff going on in china and the rest of eurasia and not arguing about made up state department garbage constantly
mila kunis has issued a correction as of 06:01 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 05:58
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Atopian posted:Wait, people are saying that China isn't authoritarian? In a thread that is approximately 50% (often legitimately) celebrating the government Getting Things Done With Authority? Every state is authoritarian, focusing on China being somehow unique in their "authoritarian" nature reveals one's biases and paints them as a naive liberal pushing the typical western narrative. It's not surprising to see you miss that very simple point.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:04
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DiscountDildos posted:Ok maybe this guy has a point we will welcome xi as a liberator
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Dec 20, 2021 06:06
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thatfatkid posted:Every state is authoritarian, focusing on China being somehow unique in their "authoritarian" nature reveals one's biases and paints them as a naive liberal pushing the typical western narrative. It's not surprising to see you miss that very simple point. It's not unique, it's further towards one end of a spectrum than most. I've lived in China for years. My life is here, and I have no interest in narratives. But compared to other places I've lived, sure seems authoritarian. Personal experience, accounts of people here, news and events.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:10
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it's funny how the state with the largest prison population in the world (by total and per capita) isn't described as authoritarian by the brave China watchers. I wonder why only China is worthy of such a description 🤔 Atopian, you are dumb.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:11
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sexpig by night posted:do you believe she's being forced to lie, y/n We can discuss the semantics of "forced" but sure. She's aware that if she were to keep making public statements about Zhang she would get into trouble of some kind, and has probably been given a specific approach/answers to give about certain questions. Serf posted:if authoritarian applies to every single state then its not particularly useful unless you're an anarchist There's a spectrum of authoritarianism, and different levels in different fields, and different ways of enforcing it. China is among the more open with it in most areas and can reasonably be said to be "more" authoritarian, or at the very least more openly so, than a lot of other places in for example the western world. Is this kind of nitpicking really productive to you? thatfatkid posted:it definitely doesn't influence how I'm analysing the peng shuai drama with an ideological bias I'm literally saying this opposite of this. My understanding/beliefs of the authoritarian nature of parts of China, especially around controlling media and criticism of the ruling class is an important part of how I make inferences here. Accusations of "ideological bias" are equally silly because duh, we all have ideological bias. It's interesting how a lot of you guys somehow still ultimately fall in line and frame your arguments with the (edit: stereotypical) western understanding that authoritarian == objectively bad, and thus take umbrage at people referring to China as authoritarian. It's not objectively bad, and it has good and bad elements and saying that is not a bad thing. For example you'll cheerlead the gov't reigning in guys like Jack Ma, and for good reason, because China has seen in the US what happens when you have Tech billionaires and industry sectors etc. that virtually co-opt the political process, and want to avoid that happening. But we don't need to say that's not an authoritarian or at least illiberal measure. I'm really clearly not making some western right wing-esque argument that China is authoritarian and badbadbad and the west indubitably free and good and awesome but you seem to keep projecting that baggage on me. LimburgLimbo has issued a correction as of 06:16 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 06:12
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Atopian posted:It's not unique, it's further towards one end of a spectrum than most. thatfatkid posted:it's funny how the state with the largest prison population in the world (by total and per capita) isn't described as authoritarian by the brave China watchers. I wonder why only China is worthy of such a description 🤔 Careful now Atopian, you have a nuanced view of the place you live in and it's ideology. That is a Very Bad Thing you see, you're not allowed to have that.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:14
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nuance only benefits the internal discussion between socialists in terms of practical benefit, it is much better that socialists act in discipline rather than trying to debate on terms that are perennially set according to the rules of the dominant discourse (in our case here, the line set by the government of the united states and its allies and dependencies). it's a foolish errand because they acknowledge no ideological motive of their own; no evidence is reasonable enough for them to accept the socialist case. drowning in their ideology even though they forever deny how ideological they are, any nuance on the peng shuai case towards a rigorous analysis is wasted breath on them, same with any other issue du jour that raises the alarms about the red menace, thus it has ever been since lenin the same structure of thought, the same intellectual method can be seen in the reasoning for not executing relief of american student loans, the disastrous mismanagement of the pandemic by assorted western powers, the impossibility of using state power to effect dramatic changes of practical effect to the lives of its citizens, all the way to the far east and the innumerous supposed demerits of china. any good socialist acknowledges and embraces ideological thought because it is what governs the what, the how and why of social relations, built from the ground up through historical and material circumstances. as such, it is far more beneficial to all involved to simply go on and just try to put some sick burns through shitposts than trying to build some profound contextualized analysis that is impossible to satisfy any rhetorical point made by the dominant western discourse against china. at least we can then entertain ourselves
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Dec 20, 2021 06:16
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thatfatkid posted:it's funny how the state with the largest prison population in the world (by total and per capita) isn't described as authoritarian by the brave China watchers. I wonder why only China is worthy of such a description 🤔 I think I've mentioned in in this thread before, but I don't give a poo poo about the USA, except as it intersects with the affairs of places I do care about. Which, admittedly, is often, but how the US treats its domestic victims isn't something that I'm going to spend much thought on. Never visited, probably never will. Yes, the US is terrible in many many ways, obviously. Moving on to more relevant things?
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Dec 20, 2021 06:17
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my god you 2 are so loving dumb
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Dec 20, 2021 06:18
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thatfatkid posted:my god you 2 are so loving dumb That's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:22
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LimburgLimbo posted:We can discuss the semantics of "forced" but sure. She's aware that if she were to keep making public statements about Zhang she would get into trouble of some kind, and has probably been given a specific approach/answers to give about certain questions. do you understand how being a public figure works or are you under the impression that american celebrities can shoot their mouths off about any stupid thing they want whenever they want and not get into trouble
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Dec 20, 2021 06:24
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LimburgLimbo posted:We can discuss the semantics of "forced" but sure. She's aware that if she were to keep making public statements about Zhang she would get into trouble of some kind, and has probably been given a specific approach/answers to give about certain questions. for example, this. this is a cartload of bullshit in terms of what you are supposedly trying to do. "we can discuss the semantics of 'forced', what the gently caress is this bullshit? you literally state what you think right next, you already have a fully realized scenario in your head. you are not remotely doing the supposedly finely nuanced argument you think you are doing because you already have a picture on your goddamn mind about what happened stop beating around the loving bush and own your position in full: you think she has been coerced and is being forced against her own will to say the things that she is being saying. there you go. why the gently caress is that so hard?
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Dec 20, 2021 06:25
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dead gay comedy forums posted:nuance only benefits the internal discussion between socialists This is well written and should no joke be in the CSPAM rules or something Some Guy TT posted:do you understand how being a public figure works or are you under the impression that american celebrities can shoot their mouths off about any stupid thing they want whenever they want and not get into trouble So you agree that a celebrity who talks openly about their affairs with important politicians, including potential accusations of rape, will reasonably modulate what they say for fear of government reprisal? Seems like you're agreeing with me here? Unless you're saying "you see this happens everywhere!... EXCEPT China" lol
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Dec 20, 2021 06:27
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Atopian posted:Wait, people are saying that China isn't authoritarian? In a thread that is approximately 50% (often legitimately) celebrating the government Getting Things Done With Authority? i think they're saying authoritarian is a meaningless propaganda term. the lack of state power doesn't mean power vanishes, it just mean the power vacuum is filled by oligarchs instead. you're free to start a leftist podcast and speak truth to power to like 100 people in brooklyn, but if most of the media has been bought up by the rich and 95% of the population is consuming media that attacks anything to the left of margaret thatcher and billionaires fund and flood old people's facebook walls with brain rot, what does that even mean. also state power never actually vanishes, the usa has a bigger carceral and surveillance apparatus than china does. when you start being an actual threat to the state, well, take a look at the corpses of a bunch of black leaders in US postwar history as a wage slave in a liberal democracy, these are your elected representatives: mila kunis posted:yeah winning elections don't really matter to them - once they get a seat its just a springboard to more lucrative work, who cares if you lose in the future. if you want an insight into the primary motivations of elected reps in liberal democracies this leak from a british MP is good and hilarious: who holds power here? i don't think its the constituents of Shrewsbury and Atcham even leaving aside the obvious bad examples of the USA and the UK, which democracies can you hold up as clear and obvious paragons of virtue? in india you can get lynched for being muslim, or get killed if you cross the wrong politician by low level paramilitaries of their party while they deny any role in the hit. electoral violence is massive across large parts of africa and south america, people learn to keep their mouths shut despite freedom of the press or whatever. scandinavian social democracies maybe? but they're not most of the world, just a small part of it.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:28
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dead gay comedy forums posted:for example, this. this is a cartload of bullshit in terms of what you are supposedly trying to do. "we can discuss the semantics of 'forced', what the gently caress is this bullshit? you literally state what you think right next, you already have a fully realized scenario in your head. you are not remotely doing the supposedly finely nuanced argument you think you are doing because you already have a picture on your goddamn mind about what happened Yup this is what I'm saying and I haven't beat around the bush about it imo But I'm also making clear that I don't think she's *literally* been sent to a gulag or *literally* been forced at gunpoint to make statements, because people are projecting the statements of idiots/bad actors/extremists onto everything they broadly disagree with.
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Dec 20, 2021 06:31
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chinas leading humanity through one of the most profound transformations in history, just enjoy it drat
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Dec 20, 2021 06:34
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