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I did the combat start but didn't take the other wolf because it had 2 negatives on it which apparently was a huge mistake because they had a really good destroyer and another big ship that was also a carrier that just loving punished my 4 ships. I eventually beat them by fighting multiple battles and retreating after killing 1 ship. Basically the combat start had me with 0 money and 13 supplies left after defeating the gate guards because they had 2 ships that could defeat my destroyer 1v1. The hyperspace navigation is confusing as poo poo too really poor UI. My main tactic has been get that destroyer, make it my primary ship while having the others be mostly point defense boats set to defend the destroyer as it goes to work. The fight vs the tutorial gate guards ends up with their fighters usually killing a few of my ships because i don't have enough PD. The AI is a real fucker where it will retreat most of it's ships then send one to punish me if i chase then it'll pull the last ship out before i can catch it.
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Dec 20, 2021 08:09
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Arghy posted:I did the combat start but didn't take the other wolf because it had 2 negatives on it which apparently was a huge mistake because they had a really good destroyer and another big ship that was also a carrier that just loving punished my 4 ships. I eventually beat them by fighting multiple battles and retreating after killing 1 ship. Basically the combat start had me with 0 money and 13 supplies left after defeating the gate guards because they had 2 ships that could defeat my destroyer 1v1. The hyperspace navigation is confusing as poo poo too really poor UI. If you let your other ships roam instead of defend you they will most likely be quite capable of not dying too fast and split up the enemy fleet into smaller engagements. Then you can swoop in with some DPS boat and pick off more isolated ships on the flanks by yourself. If needed, you can also support an isolated ship of your own if you can't command some other fast mover nearby to come to their aid. If you want to prevent your own frontline ships to be isolated you can assign them a light escort. Shepards are actually really good escort ships because they are decently fast, non suicidal and their drones have great range so they can act as PD and make the enemy always keep their shields up which reduces their speed+dissipation (=flanking potential). Add a harpoon rack or something to the ship and the nearby enemy AI will be even more cautious about safe distances to vent, further reducing pressure.
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Dec 20, 2021 08:44
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Yeah i try to stick the support ships with an offensive ship but letting them roam alone seems like a bad idea when they can often be rushed by the AI. I was surprised by that big pirate ship because it had so many missiles that it actually ran down my combat time dodging them which is a really valid tactic haha.
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Dec 20, 2021 09:13
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The first lesson in starsector is that the AI is better than you. Especially when all their main weapons have the same range. So not counting missiles or PD. Eventually you can get good enough to exploit the AIs tendency to retreat and poo poo, but the AI is good and knows what it's doing. This goes for your ships too. They do tend to have trouble with broadside ships and offensive carriers, but except for the Conquest and arguably the Legion, there aren't any of those in vanilla. And if you have a Conquest, there's no reason you shouldn't be flying it.
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Dec 20, 2021 09:44
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my dad posted:e: Regarding black market trade: Certain ships have shielded cargo holds. This means you can freely fill and empty them on the black market without suspicion even with the transponder on. Pirate Mules are my favorite hybrid warship/tradeship because of them. Massive improvement to profit margins, way beyond what more regular cargo would give you. Can you clarify what you mean here? I was under the impression 'Shielded Cargo Holds' only hides cargo from inspection scans and has no other effects, smuggling suspicion being a separate calculation based on credits/cargo volume transferred per market etc. Am I mistaken? Was this a recent tweak?
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Dec 20, 2021 09:52
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You can safely ignore how many d-mods a ship has on it when starting out. Minimal effect compared to the additional firepower a ship can bring.
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Dec 20, 2021 10:04
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love the d-mod and it will die for you in a thousand battles
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Dec 20, 2021 10:15
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Here's a vague question - is Nexerelin(?) actually fun/good? It's very impressive to look at, but I'm suspicious that a mod that adds that much stuff can actually be balanced. Does it make for a good Starsector 4X, or is it just a bunch of shiny but badly made systems?
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Dec 20, 2021 10:57
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A lot of people really like it but it mostly just adds some more ways to turn your spess botes into spreadsheets and floods the maps with gigantic fleets.
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 11:07
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well, was just about to start a new vanilla run on this patch, so why not demonstrate for poor old Arghy Apogee start because why wouldn't you grab a free Apogee  screw going dark, sustained burn right on in, scavenge some junk from their lawn to show dominance  beat up the guard Hammerhead, might drop a gun or be salvageable  grab some supplies when we report back. get more if you started with other ships obviously   potentially worth spending a point or two to get the tarsus and the condor if it's not free, I didn't bother this time because you don't need to  and post refit:      got mildly unlucky with the free weapons and there weren't good medium ballistics in the store either. thumpers are, fine, I guess just sustained burn on in. even if you're starting with something smaller and they don't run you can easily pick off half at a time by doing this. just quicksave before they spot you   (that first one wasn't worth taking screenshots of) only order I needed after these was to pull the wolf out of the way because it ate a shot from the Venture  just gotta separate the dangerous but squishy target and kill it  and then repeat on the now mostly harmless slab of meat  and tutorial fight's done, no frustration in sight  not for the first time, I want to see how you're fitting your stuff out Arghy, unless you completely gently caress the weapon loadouts and waste OP on poo poo that isn't doing anything it's not a hard fight to win... like you'd lose a ship or two maybe, but not die horribly
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Dec 20, 2021 11:08
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Razakai posted:Here's a vague question - is Nexerelin(?) actually fun/good? It's very impressive to look at, but I'm suspicious that a mod that adds that much stuff can actually be balanced. Does it make for a good Starsector 4X, or is it just a bunch of shiny but badly made systems? It's as good as starsector 4x is gonna be until Alex decides to implement an official version. In nexerelin vanilla factions and most major mods are decently balanced towards not collapsing too fast or to be too big powerhouses, and those factions that are prone to collapse are fun "challenge" starts, though multiple mod factions prevent their small faction from collapse by having a ridiculously fortified homeworld, which is annoying for the player too. Then you can of course just randomize all starting systems which weights factions pretty evenly I would say, but that also bins lore related stuff which includes most custom made mod systems and related features.
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Dec 20, 2021 11:34
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Razakai posted:Here's a vague question - is Nexerelin(?) actually fun/good? It's very impressive to look at, but I'm suspicious that a mod that adds that much stuff can actually be balanced. Does it make for a good Starsector 4X, or is it just a bunch of shiny but badly made systems? It's absolutely required. The game is too easy without it. Also, starting with a commission as a particular faction but more importantly a specific ship is extremely convenient and fun. There's a lot of ships I'd never have brothered to pilot without hammering random and going 'oh, sure, I'll fly the Corvette' and then discovering that it's actually awesome. I like Hard Start with the hosed up stock Kite but the monthly scaling expense is really the only challenging part of starting with that ship, since it can effortlessly avoid combat. Real challenge is starting with a ship that almost equally worthless but can actually fight back, so you feel tempted to see if you can take on a bunch of derelict drones with your sole Remora or whatever. Probably the only bad thing I have to say is the 'hard' starts where you've got bad relationships with almost everyone are easier than they look, because they'll usually instantly send peace offerings once you settle a colony that move them back to neutral. Larry Parrish fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 11:44
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I suppose I'll give it a try after this run finishes. I actually prefer that the base game doesn't have any "dynamic" faction stuff like invasions and colonization, putting the player on a clock would take away from it being a chill game about flying around exploring and shooting stuff. Plus everything being in a state of stagnation fits the setting. But now I've reached a profitable colony and can beat up alpha core remnant fleets, not much left to do after trialling out a few more ships.
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Dec 20, 2021 11:59
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Razakai posted:I suppose I'll give it a try after this run finishes. I actually prefer that the base game doesn't have any "dynamic" faction stuff like invasions and colonization, putting the player on a clock would take away from it being a chill game about flying around exploring and shooting stuff. Plus everything being in a state of stagnation fits the setting. But now I've reached a profitable colony and can beat up alpha core remnant fleets, not much left to do after trialling out a few more ships. It's really not that dire. Besides, Nex seems to make the AI really only settle the edge of the core worlds. And it usually makes them fight more. Plus, stuff like that takes a long time and can be disrupted by the AI. It takes like a year for a faction to settle a colony.
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Dec 20, 2021 12:48
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If you feel like nex is shaking things up to much you can just jack the invasion timers way up, in my game the factions get one/two invasion every cycle or so. I did the same with colonizing new planets Story planets are not valid invasion targets until they have played their part in the story btw.
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Dec 20, 2021 15:00
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Sandweed posted:Story planets are not valid invasion targets until they have played their part in the story btw. Kanta's Den and Lacille Habitat instantly decivilized once I completed their respective quests on my last campaign playthrough. I *may* have had a hand in that.
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Dec 20, 2021 15:34
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Teledahn posted:Can you clarify what you mean here? I was under the impression 'Shielded Cargo Holds' only hides cargo from inspection scans and has no other effects, smuggling suspicion being a separate calculation based on credits/cargo volume transferred per market etc. Am I mistaken? Was this a recent tweak? It's entirely possible that I'm wrong, but in my experience, shielded cargo holds let me get away with a lot more black market trade than I normally do.
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Dec 20, 2021 16:31
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Nex is a lot of fun and I'll usually give it a go after I've finished a vanilla play through or two after a patch but I'd hardly call it necessary. It's a fantastic showpiece of what Alex's support of the mod scene is capable of though.
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Dec 20, 2021 16:40
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everytime I play nex the hegemony just snowballs until I slap them down 
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Dec 20, 2021 16:47
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Larry Parrish posted:It's absolutely required. The game is too easy without it. Also, starting with a commission as a particular faction but more importantly a specific ship is extremely convenient and fun. There's a lot of ships I'd never have brothered to pilot without hammering random and going 'oh, sure, I'll fly the Corvette' and then discovering that it's actually awesome. I like Hard Start with the hosed up stock Kite but the monthly scaling expense is really the only challenging part of starting with that ship, since it can effortlessly avoid combat. Real challenge is starting with a ship that almost equally worthless but can actually fight back, so you feel tempted to see if you can take on a bunch of derelict drones with your sole Remora or whatever. Probably the only bad thing I have to say is the 'hard' starts where you've got bad relationships with almost everyone are easier than they look, because they'll usually instantly send peace offerings once you settle a colony that move them back to neutral. Nex is great but "absolutely required"?  The Starsector modding scene is fantastic but there is not a single required mod. The vanilla experience is great and I would personally recommend that people start there. This is not one of those games where you need to figure out a whole mod list before you play.
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Dec 20, 2021 16:48
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If you install Nex and don't like the invasion/ground combat head to exerelin config in its folder and turn on legacy invasions. Those are much more intuitive and a planet's defense strength on the colony screen actually matters.
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Dec 20, 2021 17:05
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I assumed Dmods were horrible and would basically gimp my ships so i was looking for ships without any and not picking up ships with them. I always use the AI during fights because i like to watch  . I played the poo poo outta this game years ago so combat isn't new to me but making money is getting confusing when i'm mostly getting worthless ships and barely breaking even with supplies.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:23
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Arghy posted:I assumed Dmods were horrible and would basically gimp my ships so i was looking for ships without any and not picking up ships with them. I always use the AI during fights because i like to watch Something that isn't explicitly mentioned, but good to know: recovering and selling ships is never worth doing, even if you manage to recover a ship with no demods. Salvaging for supplies and parts will always get you more value than the sale cost, so recovering a ship is strictly for if it's a ship you want to use. It is weird to get used to the economics of this game because some things you may be used to in similar games are explicitly nerfed to be unprofitable or not worth your time, such as 'normal' trading or selling recovered ships.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:27
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Arghy posted:I assumed Dmods were horrible and would basically gimp my ships so i was looking for ships without any and not picking up ships with them. I always use the AI during fights because i like to watch I also kind of had this assumption. Any time I found a (D) ship I sold it, cause in my head, I'd rather have had one fully working ship than a ton of broken down wrecks.
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Dec 20, 2021 19:28
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I think part of the deal with getting sent to the debris field to recover ships for the big fight in the tutorial is to basically let the player know that having ships with d-mods is okay. Quantity has a quality all its own.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:03
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If you go down the Yellow skills tree you will eventually get a way to remove Dmods or make your fleet better with them.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:05
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I wouldn't use a ship with more than 1 dmod, they do severely gimp performance and the way the game works, quality beats quantity most of the time. You can only get so far throwing garbage ships at the enemy until you've just given them more armour because now the wrecks of your own ships are getting in the way. The tutorial is like, virtually the only time in the game this isn't true because you can't just do something else, which is IMO a pretty bad thing to teach people. There is no time in the game other than maybe if you spec your whole fleet around it, where you would want to use busted ships, because they are generally actively detrimental for how much they cost to lug around. Unless a ship is something you intend to restore (and then I would stash it somewhere until you can do that, or mothball it until your automatic refurb skill takes care of it) or it fills some critical role in your fleet that cannot be readily replaced with something not broken, I wouldn't take it with me. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 20:11
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There are a few D-mods to look out for, namely the ones that increase maintenance or fuel costs or the one that slows down the burn speed of the ship. Most of the ones that affect combat stats typically aren't that serious, though which ones are tolerable depend on the ship in question. An Onslaught with Compromised Armor and Structural Damage can gently caress right off.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:14
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Eh, it really depends on the D-Mod and what ship its on. There are some that are basically irrelevant and even for bad ones I might keep them if they're attached to a rare/valuable hull until I get the D-mod removing skill. Like an Omen with Structural Damage/Compromised Armor is completely fine to field, if its shield goes down its not like it was going to last anyways.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:14
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Sure, sometimes you get lucky and roll one that doesn't really affect the performance of your ship, but once you start getting two, three, or four of them the chances of that are vanishingly small, and the more of them you have, the more the effects compound each other until the ship is basically cannon fodder, unable to keep pace with, or match your enemies competitively in a fight, and you are left with them pathetically trundling towards enemies that can completely dictate the terms of engagement with them. Things that cut your speed, maneuverability, or range in combat severely degrade the utility of the ship, and things that cut your burn rate, fuel consumption, or maintenence efficiency can ruin you strategically. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 20:15
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OwlFancier posted:I wouldn't use a ship with more than 1 dmod, they do severely gimp performance and the way the game works, quality beats quantity most of the time. You can only get so far throwing garbage ships at the enemy until you've just given them more armour because now the wrecks of your own ships are getting in the way. the bigger the ship is the more dmods it can have and still be good hell, capital ships with dmods are almost a blessing because you can actually deploy them for less than a billion credits in supply recovery costs but a destroyer with more than one marginal dmod is just going to die too quick or not do what it needs to, with how thin the margins are for surviving a lunge to get torpedoes on something or winning an escort duel
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Dec 20, 2021 20:18
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Depends on the capital, an onslaught conceivably might be viable in the early game if you pick up a busted one because it's still likely to outclass many smaller craft and it has the burn drive which will allow it to stay mobile, but it's likely to have ruinous upkeep costs and crater your fleet speed, and unlike a smaller ship you can't slap safety overrides on it to make it competitive for a very brief window. If it's something that is dependent on its inherent stats to be good, like a legion, you are likely to have more problems, I think. Astral maybe because it can sit back and use the recall device and the fighter skills can offset any negatives to fighter performance, though again ruinous if it has maintenence problems. Conquest... I mean it's a conquest so it's a dodgy proposition anyway but lmao if it has speed problems. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 20:20
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OwlFancier posted:Depends on the capital, an onslaught conceivably might be viable in the early game if you pick up a busted one because it's still likely to outclass many smaller craft and it has the burn drive which will allow it to stay mobile, but it's likely to have ruinous upkeep costs and crater your fleet speed, and unlike a smaller ship you can't slap safety overrides on it to make it competitive for a very brief window. with the new skill system maintenance is a lot easier to manage than deployment costs e: definitely Never Take A Ship With Worse Than 8 Burn though, all 7 burn ships are scrap until you get the modspec to fix that
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Dec 20, 2021 20:22
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Arghy posted:I assumed Dmods were horrible and would basically gimp my ships so i was looking for ships without any and not picking up ships with them. I always use the AI during fights because i like to watch D-mods are a minor problem in the early game (barring certain horrible combinations mentioned above), where fights are easily won just by having more ships. In fact, if you start out going down the Industry skills, d-mods make your ships cheaper to field with the last skill in the Industry line. And before that you'll get a bunch of skills to improve your fleet's logistics, including salvaging and surveying, which is what I prefer to do until midgame. This also helps find good spots for a colony. I recommend it as someone also in the situation where the AI is a better pilot than me, unless you prefer trading and combat to exploring. I like to fly a support flagship with operations center, nav relay, ECM package, etc. and watch the map to make sure nobody gets caught in a bad spot. Once you've saved up a decent chunk of money, you can pay at a dock to restore the d-mods on any small ships you want to keep, then get rid of the beaters and respec to the skill that will remove a random d-mod every month. Or just get out of industry altogether if you're done exploring. Mordecai fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Dec 20, 2021 |
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Dec 20, 2021 20:50
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Is the damage reduction for d-mods skill gone or can you still roll a death ball of beater ships that can shrug off reapers
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Dec 20, 2021 22:36
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Alright so the gate pirates are random and that one play through i really spent time in had a really good loving destroyer that was wrecking my face and a cruiser with fighters. I did it again and they had poo poo ships so it was much easier. I spent a story point to salvage that carrier and then got another loving carrier through salvage with only 1 d mod which pissed me off haha--those things are a loving crew sink though. I replaced my d mod frigates with cheaper brand new ones and i'm bee lining down the yellow tree for that d mod removal skill which was good anyways because my supply consumption is getting a little insane. Why do my ships some times decide to follow the waypoint when i'm moving but other times i need to hit A to start pathing again? It's frustrating as hell when my supplies are eating a hole in my hold and i'm loving zigzagging all over the map because my fleet randomly decided hey let's ignore that move order and continue with this waypoint.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:14
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The capstone Industry skill that removes D mods isn't the most optimal thing for combat later one, but for most of the game it's absolutely indispensable. I've picked up tons of rare ships with D mods and had them repair for free, probably into the 10s of millions of credits now considering stuff like unique modded ships. I guess once you have a rich colony and the money to restore or replace damaged and destroyed ships it matters less, but that's a fair bit in.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:23
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A causes your ships to go to your designated destination on the bottom left, but you can left click (or click and hold to drive in a direction) anywhere on the screen without buggering that up if you want to manually drive around on the way there.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:24
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Xand_Man posted:Is the damage reduction for d-mods skill gone or can you still roll a death ball of beater ships that can shrug off reapers That one is extremely gone.
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Dec 20, 2021 23:41
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So how does the economy work, i noticed a pirate station was offering me better prices for crew but i didn't check supplies and atm i'm barely staying afloat by salvaging and hunting down pirates. I doubt i'd ever remove the yellow line skills because it's removing a huge money sink by cutting my supply costs and ensuring i don't lose crew during salvages. Did they expand the vanilla hull types any? I was using this russian mod back in the day that added a ton of new hulls inspired by cold war ships and the russian ones were super fun because they carried a ton of missiles and cannons. I really want some expanse ships in game just because they'd make more sense then a lot of the current ones.
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Dec 21, 2021 00:19
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