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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Also, since no one has explained how Clan Sea Fox is fixing the HPGs, should I assume the newest book just says that they're doing it with no actual explanation? It's basically a coda to the book, it will probably get elaborated more in Empire Alone, which focuses on the FWL, where the Foxes are based. quote:I mean, the AFFS of 3144 prior to Palymria was between 45 and 50 Battlemech Regiments, almost equal to the CCAF and definitely bigger than the DCMS (51 and 39 by 3145 respectively). In a 2 on 1 conflict the AFFS will still lose but it definitely would've been a more hard-fought conflict, with slower losses. Palmyria and the next year where the AFFS lost 15 regiments kind of sealed the deal for them. The size may have been there but the quality definitely was not. FM:3145 describes an army where competence had given way to a combination of the worst traits of Lyran social generalism and Davion autocracy. The AFFS would have collapsed against even one of its neighbors, let alone both at the same time.
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Dec 22, 2021 19:05
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PoptartsNinja posted:IIRC Stone was basically a Wobbie the other Wobbies programmed as a 'controlled resistance' to defeat them and create a new Terran Hegemony. The Republic was basically the Wobbie end goal because they knew even if they "won" the Jihad everyone would hate them. I admit this is one thing that warms me up to the whole ilClan concept; it is SO appropriate the last hope of the Wobbies gets stomped out by the Clans they expected to holy war against  .Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Alaric said in one of the newer books his IlClan was coming for the Draconis Combine to "avenge the Nova Cats", we'll see if CGL wants to actually follow up on that. Ha, bonus points if they manage to run over the FedSuns even harder in the process as the poor bastards get caught between the two. Still, I suppose the Draconis Combine is about due for that kind of problem around now anyway, even if I feel logically the ilClan should be dealing with the CC more at this point (though the DC were invading the Republic too I suppose). Be nice if they could also walk back to accepting some of the changes Theodore made as a result; the fact the DC is more fascist in a lot of ways than feudal is starting to feel more and more problematic given current events, makes the dark in their dark grey get a little TOO dark for my tastes. Besides, reality has shown fascists are idiots who should not have the skill the DCMS has, or at least be able to sustain it for as many centuries as they have. I mean, how well do "honorbul warriors" who obey without the slightest initiative and whose commanders are supposed to kill themselves upon failing actually WORK as a super army in real life? Hell, I always took the theme of the Clan Invasion as applied to the DC to be "being all egotist warriors who are ruthlessly cruel to the people you rule doesn't work against somebody better at being those things than you", kind of annoys me current lore seems to be backsliding on those lessons some to build them up as a threat. The Dracs shouldn't be nice obviously (nobody is in Battletech's setting), but "hard men making hard choices" and "war crimes in the name of order" are things that are aging reaaalllly badly of late, that should at least be more a sometime thing (which most IS powers will swing towards when they get a tyrant) rather than the DC's perennial hat, as it were.
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Dec 22, 2021 20:01
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It's pretty telling that even at their absolute best the Draconis Combine is still an order of magnitude worse than every faction except the Word of Blake and House Amaris, and even then they're still several times worse because they never get punished for it.
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Dec 22, 2021 20:53
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Samurai bad guys are pulp fiction staple, and some pulp fiction fans will inevitably get horny for the bad guys The only way to chase those horny for bad guy away is to nuke the bad guys out of existence. Which tends to end with making selling the game as a whole kinda difficult. A lot of Herb Beas' Jihad attitude towards the BT line, while possibly righteous in some ways, had to be walked back quite a bit. Once upon a time, I enjoyed shitposting on the BT forums about people complaining about it. It didn't end with a change in the fan culture, that's for sure.
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Dec 23, 2021 00:50
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PoptartsNinja posted:Oh poo poo, I forgot he was assassinated. I'm not sure why I remember him dying of old age in Ghost War. Yeah, he gets a POV in the Dark Age: Era Digest and his last chronological POV is in The Scorpion Jar where the assassin steps in and yeets him. Defiance Industries posted:It's basically a coda to the book, it will probably get elaborated more in Empire Alone, which focuses on the FWL, where the Foxes are based. Oooooh, a FWL book? Cool. quote:The size may have been there but the quality definitely was not. FM:3145 describes an army where competence had given way to a combination of the worst traits of Lyran social generalism and Davion autocracy. The AFFS would have collapsed against even one of its neighbors, let alone both at the same time. Fair enough, good think Erik's been able to salvage something from Caleb's mishandling. MadDogMike posted:I admit this is one thing that warms me up to the whole ilClan concept; it is SO appropriate the last hope of the Wobbies gets stomped out by the Clans they expected to holy war against To be fair, Stone never saw himself as a Wobbie. He knew, apparently, that he was one of their products, but he saw them as one of his greatest enemies. Kind of like Doom Patrol vis a vis Dr. Caulder.z Draconis Combine never gets punished because all of their neighbors who could are never in a position to, and the one time when it was going to happen (Clan Invasion), they got saved by the Super-Inner Sphere-friends. So maybe IlClan will be different. Would be nice for Alaric's comment to not be another hanging thread, Battletech has too many of those as is.
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Dec 23, 2021 02:06
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The Hegemony was in plenty of position to punish them (and Leonard Kurita gave them plenty of reason), they just never chose to. Though had Amaris not struck, the Star League probably would have finally kicked their teeth in. By 2765, DeChevelier was working under the assumption the SLDF would be fighting an open war with the Combine within ten years.
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Dec 23, 2021 03:03
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Excessively lucky samurai bad guys.
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Dec 23, 2021 04:01
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where are you guys getting information about upcoming books from
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Dec 23, 2021 05:17
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Tamar Rising was available with a very limited print run at GenCon.
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Dec 23, 2021 05:19
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:where are you guys getting information about upcoming books from Highly placed LIC agents send regular reports back to me. And if I catch them just repeating this page to me they're fired
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Dec 23, 2021 06:08
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Rec Guide 22 has it all. Fun Night Gyr variants:  Another Hells Horses quad:  A bad, under-gunned jade falcon assault mech: 
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Dec 24, 2021 20:58
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DrPop posted:Rec Guide 22 has it all. Gee, pilot fluff indicates if you poo poo all over your abtakha warriors they MIGHT not be loyal and ditch back to their former Clan; who would have thought? quote:Another Hells Horses quad: That thing is hilariously derpy, looks like they strapped all the weapons and gear on it like it's a pack mule. The jump jet version must be AMAZING looking .quote:A bad, under-gunned jade falcon assault mech: Appropriately named for a terrible Jade Falcon warrior, at least. "A mech worthy of Aidan Pryde!" is not the ringing endorsement the Falcons think it is...
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Dec 24, 2021 21:12
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Lmao if anyone thinks seriously thinks the Jade Phoenix is bad. It is probably the best dueling mech that has ever been published.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:20
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Yeah, it's a 4/6/5 85 tonner with an LB-20x and two Plasma Rifles, it's a shitwrecker even if it is named after a total dumbass.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:24
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I've only ever really played in BV balanced matches. I can see how it would be good when it can play with visibility and in a 1v1. In most other circumstances it seems like investing a whole lot of BV for a small amount of guns.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:40
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Edit: nevermind, megamek is cool
Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 21:44
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DrPop posted:I've only ever really played in BV balanced matches. I can see how it would be good when it can play with visibility and in a 1v1. In most other circumstances it seems like investing a whole lot of BV for a small amount of guns. The A config will comfortably demolish every single other 2700 BV mech in existence. The only thing that even reasonably comes close is the Osteon.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:18
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Huh, why is that? It doesn’t seem like so much gun…is it a mobility thing?
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Dec 24, 2021 23:26
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General Battuta posted:Huh, why is that? It doesn’t seem like so much gun…is it a mobility thing? Yes. It is a max armored 85 ton mech with a Clan XL, the ability to consistently post a +4 TMM, and effectively zero heat issues. +4 TMM by itself is very good, but the ability to constantly be at whatever range you feel like and whatever terrain you want means that it is effectively never trading against worse numbers. It won't win quickly but it will win. :battletech: can definitely happen to it as with all other things, but it's one of the most consistent mechs in the game while also operating at a high level.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:36
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if nothing else the jumping movement profile combined with the UAC/20 means you do not want to lose an initiative roll in a 1v1 with this thing.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:41
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Strobe posted:The A config will comfortably demolish every single other 2700 BV mech in existence. The only thing that even reasonably comes close is the Osteon. I just don't see it as some incredible duelist compared to other similarly-costed mechs. It could just as easily be comfortably demolished by many other 2700 BV mechs in existence, and chances are that those mechs will go on to demolish other things after handling the Phoenix. At 2700 BV you're going up against a Dire Wolf Prime. It wouldn't be competitive against other 2700 BV Clan mechs unless the terrain heavily favored the JP player. That +4 movement modifier will melt away in front of a mech standing still and shooting Clan pulse, which is what other mechs that cost 2700 BV will probably be doing and equipped with.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:16
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The thing about Jump 7 is that if you're standing in front of a mech that stood still with a bunch of pulse lasers you've catastrophically hosed up, in much the same way that someone who wrapped a sports car around a tree has catastrophically hosed up. Nothing in the 2700 BV range is capable of catching it or successfully outmaneuvering it, and in the rare cases where it actually does have a bad turn and is vulnerable it is still a max armored 85 ton assault mech. To play a Jade Phoenix is to actually skirmish, rather than LARPing Napoleonic tactics with mechs.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:28
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It has to jump into an arc of fire at some point to be able to hit its target. if that's the rear arc of a DW Prime, then it's eating four pulse, at least one ER large, and two UAC5s. It just takes one failed PSR to not be able to jump away on the following turn. Relax, I'm not LARPing anything here. I'm just trying to describe how a realistic opponent at that BV would play.
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Dec 25, 2021 01:53
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You're not wrong, but the pulses are going to be at medium range even if every other weapon is at short, and that that point the Dire Wolf is still looking at a bare minimum of 8s assuming the Jade Phoenix has both failed to find any terrain worth using, and the Dire Wolf also stood still. If either of those things change the numbers are instead 9s or higher, and if both of those things are true we're instead looking at 10s or higher. At medium range (say, 9-12 hexes) it instead starts at 10s under prefect conditions and the shot rapidly becomes impossible. The Jade Phoenix's return fire, on the other hand, assuming perfect defensive conditions for the Dire Wolf (occupying heavy woods, +1 TMM) at the same range is a 10 at most, and is more likely to be a 9 or less because there are exactly zero maps where a Dire Wolf can maintain straight line speed between heavy woods hexes three hexes away indefinitely, and additionally in order to do so its own hit numbers instead start at 10s. The Jade Phoenix can trivially break line if sight or make numbers genuinely impossible any time it loses initiative. Winning initiative multiple turns in a row at any point likely results in a UAC/20 to the rear followed up by a 17 point kick on good enough numbers to be worth accepting a small handful of medium pulses on the best numbers of that particular Dire Wolf pilot's life on 7s. It is still an assault mech, after all. Suffering a fall is very bad, but it can definitely survive one and the following turn. :battletech: can happen to anyone at any time. I'd pick a Jade Phoenix A in a solo duel against every single other 2700 BV mech in the game without hesitation. Nothing fast enough to keep up can outgun it, nothing that can outgun it will ever be able to outmaneuver it.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:24
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Word, I understand where you're coming from. Maybe I've just been on the bad end of :battletech: too many times to consider it viable. I feel like the only logical outcome of this is a "1v1 me mid" in MegaMek.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:28
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The thing that's important is that +4 TMM is a net +1. Anything your enemy can do to reduce your target modifier you can also reduce theirs by the same.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:36
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Strobe posted:To play a Jade Phoenix is to actually skirmish, rather than LARPing Napoleonic tactics with mechs. The difference between a skirmisher and a line 'Mech though is that one of those two roles gets a better reputation among competitive players than the other.
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Dec 25, 2021 05:02
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DrPop posted:Word, I understand where you're coming from. Maybe I've just been on the bad end of :battletech: too many times to consider it viable. Yes please. I know little about this game but that would be interesting to see
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Dec 25, 2021 09:45
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Strobe posted:It won't win quickly but it will win. This, I think, is a key point. You can almost certainly pull a win off with it if you're willing to only engage on good terms, but that might take twenty or thirty or forty turns. At some point your win condition might be waiting for your opponent to get fed up and quit. As for actually winning, the White Raven 2 has one more point of jump distance, trades the UAC for twice as many pulse lasers and carries a tcomp and improved targeting, short. Aside from being just faster and jumpier, there might be some play in a fatass hardened or ballistic reinforced 'mech.
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Dec 25, 2021 10:29
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raverrn put it in a way I struggled with. Clan pulse boats, and Clan assault 'Mechs in general that dedicate most tonnage to max armor & weapons, win by doing the main objective of a lot of BattleTech games as quickly and reliably as possible: hit things until things die. When you and others as players have a time and turn limit before things stop being fun, it can be no surprise that the "battleship" approach to 'Mech design gets picked the most often. If only the FASA writers could see us now, optimizing the piss out of our double heat sinked, antagonist-only MechWarrior campaign final boss machines.... Or really what I'm trying to say is, BT game balance has always been broken and Bring Your Own Lance/Star shouldn't be taken for granted, at the very least Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 10:50
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raverrn posted:As for actually winning, the White Raven 2 has one more point of jump distance, trades the UAC for twice as many pulse lasers and carries a tcomp and improved targeting, short. I've been ignoring quirks because there isn't even an attempt to balance them in any way. The White Raven 2 is a good comparison to bring up, because it looks like it would be an excellent match but it has a couple really big downsides that aren't really apparent just looking at the guns and mobility. First, it has an XXL engine, which means that one side torso lost will outright kill it. That also means the jump jet heat is doubled and you're back up to 8 heat for a max distance jump, and it only has 10 doubles. You get the same pulse armament as the Jade Phoenix does without overheating to a noticeable degree, and even a mech that jumps 8 is going to notice +15-16 on the heat scale in a bad way. It's also back to using standard armor over the Ferro-Lamellor on the White Raven (standard) so it's also just outright less durable even without the engine. Realistically the first time it falls the fight is just over, while the reverse isn't necessarily true. I want a mini of both real bad though.
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Dec 25, 2021 17:30
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Overheating is going to be less of an issue on a machine that's It's all a dice game, of course, but I think the White Raven comes out on top. And quirks are hella cool and everyone should use them except for the Marauder.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:07
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So many cool mechs we’re never going to see in a Mechwarrior game  I managed to get the Archangel into Living Legends but I had to pay out of pocket to commission the model myself. It turned out pretty fun, though.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:34
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raverrn posted:Overheating is going to be less of an issue on a machine that's It's very difficult to reposition away from a mech you only outjump by 1, though, and it comes entirely down to initiative. If you could actually know whether you win your next initiative that'd be great but it's not possible. Losing initiative while overheating is surrendering a turn with basically no return fire at "good" numbers at best. Also you are never going to land a punch, if you're in the rear you're starting at 11s at best. Which is really all just to say that the White Raven actually has weaknesses whereas the Jade Phoenix only has things it's merely very good at.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:42
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Strobe posted:It's very difficult to reposition away from a mech you only outjump by 1, though, and it comes entirely down to initiative. If you could actually know whether you win your next initiative that'd be great but it's not possible. Losing initiative while overheating is surrendering a turn with basically no return fire at "good" numbers at best. I've done did the science. 
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Dec 25, 2021 18:58
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 , excellent. Did that happen the very first time? 
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Dec 25, 2021 19:12
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Yep! I was going to best of three, but this sums it up pretty well. In the battle of optimized jump duelists, there are no winners.
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Dec 25, 2021 19:22
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Princess is better than it has ever been but it still struggles to optimize play with very mobile units. I'm not super surprised that's the outcome, but it's definitely hilarious.
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Dec 25, 2021 19:32
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Now for shits & giggles do a 1 v 1 v 1 with a Black Python in the mix. 
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Dec 25, 2021 20:22
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PoptartsNinja posted:Now for shits & giggles do a 1 v 1 v 1 with a Black Python in the mix. The White Raven is just a reskinned Black Python so this technically already happened.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:46
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