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Wanda said that Hope was on board so I figure the Five don't really care. They're pretty much breaking off on their own anyway.
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Dec 23, 2021 04:39
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Rick posted:I wonder where Ugly John is in the queue? That’s what I’ve been waiting for. A certain writer said he had a pitch for an X book with Ugly John, but it didn’t get picked up. Petra and Sway were brought back to help Vulcan. One of the data pages mentions that mutants are sometimes resurrected with their friends as a coping mechanism.
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Dec 23, 2021 08:36
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That's not the confusion here.  From what the issue says, Wanda did some magic thing and made it so that anyone who was "lost before Cerebro started its backups or before their X-gene could manifest" could still be recalled by Cerebro. John Proudstar was, apparently, one of those people; he had died too long ago for there to have been a backup of him in Cerebro, which is why he hadn't been back before now. The problem is that both Petra and Sway died before John did, ironically during a mission to Krakoa. But both of them had been back since they started doing resurrections...prioritized, as you say, to help stabilize Vulcan. So how come Xavier had copies of them backed up on Cerebro, but not Thunderbird?
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Dec 23, 2021 09:41
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I'm not sure I understand the ending of Trial of Magneto. So he killed Wanda, on her urging, and then let Toad take the fall? Poor Toad.
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Dec 23, 2021 10:38
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Speaking of Vulcan, has anything come up with him since it was revealed that he's not running his real personality?
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Dec 23, 2021 10:47
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Synthbuttrange posted:Speaking of Vulcan, has anything come up with him since it was revealed that he's not running his real personality? Given the limited number of issues Hickman had, this feels like an even bigger waste! There's "leaving plotlines for later writers to play with" and there's "using 2 issues for Vulcan to murder tree aliens and reveal other aliens (??) have control of his brain and just not mentioning it again."
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Dec 23, 2021 14:43
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Like I said a lot of the weirdness around Vulcan and his cohort feels like a dropped plot. My hunch was that Petra and Sway weren't the real Petra and Sway-- they really only do stuff in the one Vulcan spotlight issue, and in that they seem monomaniacally focused on partying and chilling in such a way that my suspicious is that they were planted with him to keep him docile and distracted. I don't know if we'll ever actually see that thread resolve though, ditto the question of who/what Vulcan is now.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:05
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Hickman is one of my favorite comics writers these days, but it’s very frustrating how rushed so much of his work feels sometimes. I wish there was more space for Marvel to just let him write out an entire graphic novel in one go rather than having to be serialized.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:10
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A GN worked well for Squirrel Girl.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:14
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Internet Wizard posted:Hickman is one of my favorite comics writers these days, but it’s very frustrating how rushed so much of his work feels sometimes. I wish there was more space for Marvel to just let him write out an entire graphic novel in one go rather than having to be serialized. I think a lot of his strongest work with the mutant stuff was in the Giant-Sized one-shots so I agree. He does better when he has more space to sprawl and digress and I think honestly doesn't quite nail managing a 22 page story.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:54
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Larry Hama back for Wolverine: Patch, that's nice to see. It's actually just encouraging to know that the Snake Eyes Origins movie didn't fry his brain. Hopefully he didn't have to see that. Good ol' Larry.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:34
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He just finished a short arc on X-Men Legends too if you missed it.
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Dec 23, 2021 21:45
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Awesome, that series is on my everlovin' to-read list. I heard Fabian Nicieza on some podcasts, he's a fun dude, so I gotta see how that Adam-X story turned out too. Also great to see Chris Claremont on Legends #12, plus that upcoming Gambit series. One of my comics reading goals is to finish reading the Claremont run in 2022. I've got over 200 issues left! Including a good bit of New Mutants and event tie-ins, annuals, etc. The Brood Saga is where I left off, great stuff, sure is a whole lot of run to that run. I may even read an issue of the Krakoa era before the era concludes too, that'd be good. But I've got it vicariously through this thread, just as good. Probably even better. It is funny, I keep up with stuff to fine-tune my to-read list and keep up with the news, even though I'm reading comics from 35+ years ago, before I was born even. I'm thinking when I hit the 90s I'll strike a balance of reading old and new stuff. Hell, maybe I'll break the rules and read House of X/Powers of X after I read the original Inferno or something. Not to get ahead of myself here. Similar for a lot of stuff, I'm in the middle of the Mirage run of Ninja Turtles, and I've had stacks of the IDW reboot for many years. Just getting into Usagi Yojimbo too, that's another few hundred comics. Comics!!!
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Dec 23, 2021 22:18
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Trial of Magneto felt like it had a lot of extra crap crammed into it, unnecessarily, when the key takeaway is "Wanda cleared up her bad rep with mutants by powering up the Krakoan ressurection process" SWORD, I'm kinda curious as to what Brand's game is. She's clearly thinking some cosmic realpolitik poo poo, but given that the state of cosmic Marvel is basically a ever swirling blender of crap, it's hard to even guess what she wants. I mean, how much has she even been involved in big space nonsense? She's been too busy fooling around with the X-Men to be a key player in even something as recent as Final Annihilation. Unless she doesn't have anything specific in mind and is just power hungry, in which case, someone needs to free Nick Fury from his cosmic torment and stick Brand there instead.
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Dec 23, 2021 22:51
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OnimaruXLR posted:SWORD, I'm kinda curious as to what Brand's game is. She's clearly thinking some cosmic realpolitik poo poo, but given that the state of cosmic Marvel is basically a ever swirling blender of crap, it's hard to even guess what she wants. I mean, how much has she even been involved in big space nonsense? She's been too busy fooling around with the X-Men to be a key player in even something as recent as Final Annihilation. Unless she doesn't have anything specific in mind and is just power hungry, in which case, someone needs to free Nick Fury from his cosmic torment and stick Brand there instead. This feels like Ewing setting something up. There was a lot in his Guardians of the Galaxy about how cosmic Marvel's political power structure is teetering on its edge, and has been for years. Teddy ending the Kree/Skrull War is the happiest thing that's happened in space for maybe years in comic time. Off the top of my head, there's been the Annihilation Wave, the Phalanx invasion, that whole thing with the "cancer-verse" invading (and it happened again in a Matthew Rosenberg-led event in 2019 I'd somehow managed to overlook until recently), the war between the Sh'iar and Inhumans that got Lilandra killed, the Nova Corps being reformed and killed off at least twice in recent memory, the war against the Builders, Knull punching his way through half the galaxy, the Snarks' war of imperial succession, and now Dormammu's "Last Annihilation." A lot of what Brand's been doing in SWORD looked like white-knighting on behalf of the Sol system, but could just as easily have been a foundation for empire. Ewing also has Brand point out in SWORD in a sort of metafictional way that nobody's ever actually explored who she is beyond "green-haired space boss"; I realized recently that she's got "Anna" and "Grace" tattooed on her upper arms, a character detail that goes all the way back to Whedon's Astonishing, and it's never been established why. (Sisters? Daughters? Her actual name?) If you were going to set someone up as a relatively complex villain, Brand's not the worst call. She's using realpolitik and economics to kick Sol's way onto the cosmic scene, seemingly with the full intention of being in charge by the time it happens.
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Dec 23, 2021 23:20
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Heavy Metal posted:Larry Hama back for Wolverine: Patch, that's nice to see. It's actually just encouraging to know that the Snake Eyes Origins movie didn't fry his brain. Hopefully he didn't have to see that. Good ol' Larry. Hama thought Snake Eyes was okay, I think. If anybody knows how to detach their ego from things it appears to be Lethal Larry.
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Dec 24, 2021 05:50
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I have to admit I'm deeply amused by a character who exists in a broader cultural context openly laughing at the idea that "human" and "mutant" are meaningfully separate groups, given how frequently the X-books take it completely seriously.
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Dec 24, 2021 06:16
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Petra and Sway would be easy enough to explain since they were Moria's team although I agree they should explain it.
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Dec 24, 2021 07:20
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Wanderer posted:If you were going to set someone up as a relatively complex villain, Brand's not the worst call. She's using realpolitik and economics to kick Sol's way onto the cosmic scene, seemingly with the full intention of being in charge by the time it happens. This is Vandal Savage's plan in the Young Justice cartoon, so there's precedent.
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Dec 24, 2021 08:24
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This might be a silly question, but does anyone happen to remember a comic where the Avengers and X-Men teamed up, and it involved a panel where Magneto and Spider-Man were working together on something? It occurred to me out of the blue, and I thought it was part of Gillen's Uncanny run, but I'm wondering if I made that up.
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Dec 27, 2021 06:49
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 a+x 4
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Dec 27, 2021 08:03
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Synthbuttrange posted:
i disagree with Spider-Man on weed + liverwurst being a terrible smell
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Dec 27, 2021 17:10
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Was that the period where spider man was actually doc oc?
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Dec 27, 2021 17:13
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Yeah, that's Superior Spider-Man. But I agree with him on the smell.
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Dec 27, 2021 17:44
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Rand Brittain posted:I have to admit I'm deeply amused by a character who exists in a broader cultural context openly laughing at the idea that "human" and "mutant" are meaningfully separate groups, given how frequently the X-books take it completely seriously. I feel like I remember some Guardians of the Galaxy comic where all the non-humans like Rocket also mocked that. It is a pretty good joke in a meta context.
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Dec 30, 2021 05:05
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Question for ya. Is it true there wasn't any reference to the phoenix force in the original Claremont Phoenix saga? I read that part of the run a few years ago, and I've heard about the X-Factor and Avengers retcon in Claremont interviews etc. This wiki article mentioning that it was a retcon that the Phoenix force was a thing is what I'm wondering about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Force_(comics) I thought the big retcon was just that Jean wasn't really who was there, it was a clone made by the force during the saga. Which is of course too lame to acknowledge, and is right out of any headcanon. But anyways, in the original run through issue #137, was there really no reference to the Phoenix being a cosmic entity that made contact with Jean? Is that all mixed-media memories and Mandela effect or whatever? Reading the saga I had thought of it as she got power from this cosmic thingy that saved her life, and got overwhelmed with the power. Is that not in there anywhere, and the story is just that her latent mutant abilities are what went wild with power? Also, stuff like say the Shi'ar having prophecies or knowing about the Phoenix already, was there really none of that in the Claremont run up to that point? It's just funny to think I kind of inferred that stuff if it wasn't there. But you do have to make some kind of brain gumbo to have the story make sense across the decades. Also, stuff like comicvine listing #100 as the first appearance of the Phoenix force. Retcons and wikis can make for an interesting mix. Bonus question, how do you feel about the Phoenix Force today? Seems like it's just kind of a thing that hangs out, doesn't have much gravitas. It's involvment in AvX was nutty. I hear Thor's mom is the Phoenix force or something these days, that's something.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:59
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Heavy Metal posted:Bonus question, how do you feel about the Phoenix Force today? Like Quentin Quire being a possible host. Like Jean somehow having a mutant ability perfect for harnessing/hosting it. Like the Stepford Cuckoos being a possible Phoenix Force control/incubator system. There's been some cool poo poo about it (The White Hot Room) that taps into it being a genuinely weird cosmic force, but otherwise it's just a cheap plot macguffin now.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:04
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FilthyImp posted:It's been reduced as a threat by making it Just A Thing that a great telepath taps into maybe. Jason Aaron has... changed that. Even AvX implies differently. There's definitely cosmic-force stuff in the original Claremont issues, given the Shi'ar know what it is. The Jean-was-in-a-cacoon-the-whole-time was Byrne's retcon to bring back Jean, something done almost purely out of spite to Claremont.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:13
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danbanana posted:Jason Aaron has... changed that. Even AvX implies differently. Not sure how that tracks given Claremont never intended to kill her off in the first place? That was Shooter's demand because he felt anything else was letting her off the hook.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:15
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Gaz-L posted:Not sure how that tracks given Claremont never intended to kill her off in the first place? That was Shooter's demand because he felt anything else was letting her off the hook. Claremont wasn't for killing her but accepted the editorial decision (which, storywise, was the right one). Byrne never liked it and it was the thing that drove him away. There's a lot of oral history on Byrne bringing her back without Claremont knowing, with Byrne intentionally hiding it from him. It's all documented in Untold History.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:23
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FilthyImp posted:
That is cool, and I guess goes to show Claremont kind of ran with it. Speaking of which, I guess there's Phoenix stuff in this Claremont Special from last year, hadn't heard of this one. https://www.comixology.com/Chris-Claremont-Anniversary-Special-2021-1/digital-comic/892430 danbanana posted:Jason Aaron has... changed that. Even AvX implies differently. Right on, thanks for confirming that, good to know I'm not 100% crazy. Wikipedia bungles it again.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:24
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Heavy Metal posted:Question for ya. Is it true there wasn't any reference to the phoenix force in the original Claremont Phoenix saga? I read that part of the run a few years ago, and I've heard about the X-Factor and Avengers retcon in Claremont interviews etc. Heavy Metal posted:Bonus question, how do you feel about the Phoenix Force today? Seems like it's just kind of a thing that hangs out, doesn't have much gravitas. It's involvment in AvX was nutty. I hear Thor's mom is the Phoenix force or something these days, that's something. It's also not even a thing for telepaths now; everyone from Namor to Colossus to Wolverine and now Echo gets to take a turn hosting it 'cuz it's just...like, a generic fiery power up source. I don't even know what to say about the Phoenix being Thor's mom thing. It feels like even Aaron knows how stupid it is and is intentionally trolling people.
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Jan 2, 2022 03:13
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I recently tracked down the two-part story in Avengers and Fantastic Four that reintroduced Jean Grey, where an Avengers team happened across her suspended-animation pod. I'd had the Avengers issue as a kid, but never the FF follow-up. The FF issue, #268, is sort of breathtaking. It's Byrne in full-fledged retcon mode, but he's only got one issue to work with instead of a full arc, so the issue is stuffed to the gills with justifications, meta-commentary, and a straight-up monologue or two about how, since the Phoenix entity thought it was Jean at the time, it was actually Jean's resolve that led it to make that decision, so the whole Dark Phoenix Saga totally isn't ruined now, you guys. It kind of reminds me of that thing Robert Kirkman does, where he'll have a character preemptively acknowledge and react to all the possible "well, why didn't you do this?" arguments, except it's Byrne being really over-defensive of his work.
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Jan 2, 2022 06:02
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The Phoenix Force being passed around like a novelty hat is just the latest in a long list of "Everybody gets a little bit of gimmick infringement, as a treat" storylnies, which have never been particularly entertaining in my experience It wasn't too bad with the Thor Corps, I guess, but they were in the background of Secret Wars and not the focus. Plus, that was the second go around if you count everybody getting Asgardian weapons in Fear Itself...
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Jan 2, 2022 06:38
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So the whole clone cult paradise thing is still going? I miss xmen but I did not enjoy what Hickman was doing to them when I stopped reading.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:25
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TheWorldsaStage posted:So the whole clone cult paradise thing is still going? I miss xmen but I did not enjoy what Hickman was doing to them when I stopped reading. Yes and maybe try giving Hellions a shot?
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Jan 4, 2022 19:43
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TheWorldsaStage posted:So the whole clone cult paradise thing is still going? I miss xmen but I did not enjoy what Hickman was doing to them when I stopped reading. Not only is it still going, it's been so well received and the other writers have enjoyed writing the current status quo so much that they are extending this part of Hickman's three part plan, even as he steps aside to work on other projects. Also, the mutants terraformed Mars, renamed it, and made it capital of the Sol system.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:44
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Yeah you should definitely read Planet Sized X-Men
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Jan 4, 2022 19:52
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Finished Schism. I do love the L'il Hellfire Club but this was a lovely introduction to them, and mostly the whole thing felt mostly inconsequential until it suddenly isn't. The Logan-Scott fight is so silly it's kind of great. But where it shines is the end, where you get the previous 2 decades worth of character work on Scott and Logan to their logical conclusions: Scott as a die-hard paramilitary leader and Logan as a kid-protecting teacher. I love Aaron's Wolvie and the X-Men run, which is one of the few actually FUN x-books ever. I really do need to get back on Gillen's Uncanny book, too. Prelude to Schism was a neat little story telling device that probably could have been 2 issues instead of 4. So with that, my X-Read club has finished 25 post-Claremont crossovers/events, over about 14 months of virtual meetings every 2-3 weeks. Here's my ranking of them: 1 Messiah Complex One of the best straight action comics ever. 2 Age of X Great inversion of alt-world stories; Starts huge, ends personal. 3 Second Coming MC redone but not as good. Villains are dumb. 4 Phalanx Covenent Best of the post-Claremont events; Start of the Hama poo poo. 5 House of M Competent 6 X-Cutioner's Song Much better than a lot of stuff that came later. 7 Legion Quest Good Mystique stuff. 8 Curse of the Mutants Batshit. 9 Endangered Species Ultimately pointless but kinda fun? 10 Operation Zero Tolerance Would have been higher without Mustang 11 Schism Good character work on ending to set up things later but otherwise meh. 12 Fatal Attractions Not great. 13 Onslaught Better than its reputation. Ultimate What If for comics. 14 Rise & Fall of Shi'ar Empire Competent; bad Tan art. 15 Deadly Genesis Better than its reputation. 16 Ages of Apocalypse Fun-ish, but absolutely pointless. 17 Necrosha The Muir Island stuff is great; the rest is bad. 18 Messiah War loving awful art; Dour-rear end story. 19 Age of Apocalypse Way worse than its reputation. Only the GenX stuff is worthwhile. 20 Hunt For Xavier The best of the Worst 21 Dream's End Ugh. 22 The Twelve Just a clusterfucking of a good setup 23 The Shattering Oh god so boring so pointless. 24 Magneto War loving Joseph. 25 Eve of Destruction The Worst X-Men Story. It is a VERY bottom heavy list, to be fair. Maybe what's interesting is that the stuff immediately after Claremont looks much better when you get into the late-90s. Because it wasn't an "event" or whatever, we skipped Morrison's run (also 4 out of 5 people on the group had read it), and the level of craft just before (Eve of Destruction) and just after (basically House of M here) is SHOCKING. I know people don't love Bendis but jumping from Eve of Destruction to House of M is like reading books written decades apart. It was only about 4 years. (We actually read OG Inferno in between EoD and HoM, and it obviously would be at the top of this list.)
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Jan 4, 2022 21:26
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Inferno #4 tomorrow.
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Jan 4, 2022 22:18
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