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As a fan of the books who hasn't reread them since I was a teenager, I really enjoyed that season and the changes. My wife who has never read a page of them loved it too. I'm bordering on "this is actually a pretty good show" and not just me enjoying it out of nostalgia.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:28
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Trying not to read spoilers, but is show good? Was thinking about watching it over the break now that the first season's out.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:32
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BrianWilly posted:I don't know, does your ribcage regular gush blood? It isn't even close to his heart. This is not a troll. This is the imagery on the screen. Are you just thinking that you're looking at Loial's chest full on and you can't understand how angles and perspective work? Edit: Also, just to drive the nail home here, Loial is moving on screen when Fain walks away CainFortea fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 20:34
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Phenotype posted:Trying not to read spoilers, but is show good? Was thinking about watching it over the break now that the first season's out. I enjoyed it but then I really liked the books as a teenager but have never revisited them and don't consider them flawless or untouchable. If you're looking for a faithful adaptation of the books you'll be sorely disappointed. If you've already read the books and don't mind a season around a mystery you already know the answer too, it's pretty good. Well shot and decently written/acted. The cgi is mostly very good and concepts are introduced in a way that adds to the world without becoming overwhelming. The pace was quick compared to the books which of course are hideously slow but the show is its own thing so it doesn't matter much. Basically if you come in expecting a loving recreation of all the dresses and locations in the book with all the continent spanning history and tidbits, you'll be underwhelmed. If you like the central plot and don't mind dramatic and creative liberties taken with characterizations then you'll enjoy it. I thought the show did a good job expanding on all the characters and giving them a motivation beyond the plot demands they tag along (at least at first). I enjoyed it. I can see why it divides diehards. Looking at it objectively it doesn't approach Game of Thrones at its peak (and that's of course the inevitable comparison) but it was far better than that show at its worst. I liked it a lot, more than I expected or dared to.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:41
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One thing is, if Moiraine isn't stilled, then shouldn't Rand be able to undo a shield or whatever? Gonna seem really silly if it's that and she never bothered to ask him.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:43
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The show’s writers made some substantial changes to the finale, and not for the better. Any book information present under the spoiler text has already been directly contradicted by what was in the show, so it can’t spoil anything—the spoiler blocks are for people who are somehow still reading this thread without having watched the Season 1 finale. Why change things so that “anyone who isn’t the Dragon will die”, except then Moiraine doesn’t die? (Does that mean Moiraine is also the Dragon, since both she and Rand survived?  ) In the book the entire Emond’s Field five accompany Moiraine to the Eye. Moiraine still doesn’t know at that point who the Dragon is, and since there isn’t the manufactured bullshit excuse of “everyone else dies” there is no reason not to bring everyone. What possible reason was there to split up the main cast three ways for this episode?To drive home the point above, Episode 7 ended with a really cheap infodump revealing that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. That could have been handled far more organically if everyone had gone to the Eye. Only Rand can see the One Power being wielded by the Dark One, so since Mat and Perrin are unaware of the channeling they clearly aren’t the Dragon. There is still the issue of how to squeeze in Tam’s “by the way you’re adopted” speech confirming the cold open of Ep 7, but it probably wouldn’t be less satisfactory than how the show handled things. Let’s hope the city that serves as the bulwark against the Blight isn’t important at any point in the future. Since virtually every man of reproducing/fighting age, not to mention the entire ruling family, just died. The battle at Tarwin’s Gap is resolved very differently in the book. This felt like the show needed an excuse to have a giant battle at the season finale (even though the really important part, just like in the show, was what was taking place in Rand’s head). Complete with crappy CGI Trollocs stacking themselves up using the same animation scripts from World War Z. Why even bother “killing” Nynaeve if you’re going to pull a Miracle Max “oh, she’s only mostly dead” in less than five minutes? The only effect of Nynaeve’s almost-death is that Egwene is sad for a little bit. It was handled cheaply, and since there was so little payoff it undermines any future times something like this is shown on screen. Amalisa dies because she has to hold back the Trolloc army by herself. She says something about “I can sense the entire world”. If Nynaeve and Egwene are with Rand like in the books, there’s no need for that Amalisa scene with all its manufactured tension. Instead you have Rand with the “I can sense the entire world” bit, and Rand who uses all his power to smite the Dark One’s forces. Before the battle even really begins, which also sidesteps that little problem of “you just gutted the last line of defense against the Blight” that the show has now set in motion. Did the Dark One speak to the Emond’s Field five during any of their dreams in the show? I forget. It felt a bit abrupt to have the Burning Man (a) have normal human fingers, and (b) turn into a regular dude who just wants to talk, maaaaaaan. I’m disappointed we didn’t get the segment from the book about “oh, those regular Blight monsters stopped chasing us because new monster X showed up and is even more terrifying. If we can just get a bit farther into the Blight we’ll lose monster X, since monster X is afraid of monster Y that lives there”. It was a delightful sequence of spiraling pessimism. All told, I think the season was at its best in the Logain and Stepin arcs of episodes 4 and 5. Everything after that felt somewhere between sloppy and outright disappointing. On the other hand, my non-book-reading wife liked the stuff just fine. There were no glaring plot holes, and there was certainly enough excitement present.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:46
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not to get too into the weeds but iirc correctly from the novels one of the more rare talents was the ability to tie off weaves so you didnt have to keep actively channeling, including shielding someone from the one power if you were strong enough, and also that it was much tougher to break through a shield from the opposite side of the power. frankly i think we'll just have to wait until the first ep of season 2 drops to confirm whether we are in a stilling situation or not. The show has already demonstrated its willing to soft retcon events previously seen on screen (we are led to believe initially that egwene channeled in the ways only to find out later it was rand.)
Libelous Slander fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 20:48
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Stop posting book spoilers in the thread that says NO BOOK SPOILERS at the top
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Dec 24, 2021 20:54
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D-Pad posted:Jesus christ. For fucks sake why do we even need poo poo like this? The last episode of the season has aired less than 24 hours and the loving showrunner is having to go in to interviews setting out what is going to happen next season and clarify that stuff that was obviously shot to leave people hanging with questions to be addressed next season will be resolved. We are also going into "oh in the books that character is important so obviously what the show is hinting towards cannot have happened" territory not just in the thread but from the loving showrunners.
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Dec 24, 2021 20:59
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Grundulum posted:What possible reason was there to split up the main cast three ways for this episode? I actually like the focus on distinct plots for the main characters. Some are better than others (Perrin got the least screen time and seems like the worst actor) but one of the big failings I had reflecting on the books as I got a bit older was how little motivation certain characters had, especially early on. Rand was the main POV character and the books were often insanely flat when he disappeared for a while because everyone else's motivation was linked to their relation to him plot wise. If he wasn't there to advance things, it mostly stagnated. Fantasy as a genre has improved in the 30+ years since EOTW was written. It owes RJ a huge debt, but giving more complicated inner lives to characters (especially female characters) have improved things considerably. Political machinations operating under the surface that affect the plot in surprising ways are now a mainstay of the genre that wasn't there when RJ was straight rewriting the Hero's Journey for the billionth time. I love the books. They're all time classics and insanely enjoyable. But they're not flawless and this is a different medium in a different age. Would I have done some things slightly differently in the show? Maybe. Did I need every character together to reverently watch Rand become the dragon reborn? Not really. A show that's really about all of them and not just the dragon and some other folks is better tv than how the books are written. I thought his reveal the episode before sucked. I do like that they've given everyone else a lot more to do and a lot more potential for growth that just doesn't happen until quite late in the series.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:00
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Mr Beens posted:For fucks sake why do we even need poo poo like this? It almost like the goal is to drum up interest and buzz, not tick every box on some nerd’s checklist.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:02
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The Dark One is cool and good and should be freed imo Trollocs deserve rights too
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Dec 24, 2021 21:18
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#NotAllHalfmen
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Dec 24, 2021 21:24
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I like the way magic is visualized in this universe as weaving threads of power. Just wish it wasnt so mysterious and you had more verbalized 'spells' like the Witcher or Harry Potter.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:25
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Grundulum posted:#NotAllHalfmen I mean, we haven't seen trollocs do anything worse than humans at war would do. Unless they eat people? I can look past that if they do. Trollocs gotta eat too. They just look kinda scary. They're misunderstood
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Dec 24, 2021 21:30
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I like the way magic is visualized in this universe as weaving threads of power. Just wish it wasnt so mysterious and you had more verbalized 'spells' like the Witcher or Harry Potter. One thing I wish the show did was have different coloured strands to represent the different elements being woven (e.g. I believe the Healing weave is Water, Air, and Spirit), but I understand that would have been difficult to pull off in a coherent way.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:34
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At this point they should just come out and say the show is a 21st century reimagining, inspired by the works of Robert Jordan and social media trends.
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Dec 24, 2021 21:53
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Collateral posted:At this point they should just come out and say the show is a 21st century reimagining, inspired by the works of Robert Jordan and social media trends. I like this idea. Like I said in This thread before. I read a lot of the books as a young teen and I don't remember anything. I remember more of any other generic fantasy star wars novel stuff from that time. Now you have an adaption of what was mostly bland unmemorable fantasy going against adaptions of good fantasy like the Witcher (not as a good of a season 1 as this) and game of thrones. The only way you come close to capturing an audienceal and making a watchable show is to cut all the nerd book bullshit and have some real world character development, and drama. I wish the Witcher did more of this (even though I didn't read the books and never will)
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Dec 24, 2021 22:00
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:I mean, we haven't seen trollocs do anything worse than humans at war would do. Unless they eat people? Do Trollocs count as people?
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Dec 24, 2021 22:01
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Collateral posted:At this point they should just come out and say the show is a 21st century reimagining, inspired by the works of Robert Jordan and social media trends. That's what all adaptations are though 
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Dec 24, 2021 22:02
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I am underwhelmed but not disappointed, if that makes sense. My biggest issue is the abrupt stuff around Mat and the potential story repercussions but that's not really anyone's fault. Excited for season 2, hopefully it comes sooner than next fall.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:07
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Rarity posted:That's what all adaptations are though Somebody earlier in the thread (I think) said Invincible was a bigger show because it had a meme that was all over social media for a hot second. Some of the changes feel like they were made by a social media aware committee for the sole purposes of generating penetration and conversation/raging arguments. I'm not saying the changes are good or bad (the books are a long way from being masterpieces or unproblematic), but some were definitely driven by reasons other than the needs of the medium. The further away from the source it gets, the less of an adaptation it is.
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Dec 24, 2021 22:37
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finished up the season today and have a couple points: -Rosamund Pike is perfect casting for Morainne -Ironically, for all the talk of giving the other two boys more to do, Mat and especially Perrin do less in this season than they do in book -Pretty much all the Male leads are really bad, though the guy playing Rand was a lot better when they actually gave him something to do in the last episode. -Nynaeve is one of my least favorite characters in the books but shes actually pretty likable in the show -The show is entirely too in to the Aes Sidai. The books are much more critical of them even this early on, which makes sense because they are basically the magic Illuminati. -Loiale doesn't really do anything -The Seanchan at the end were really cool, even if the Tsunami they made didn't make much sense -The pacing feels so off in some episodes, the first episode and when the get to Tar Valon are the biggest victims of this where it feels like scenes are literally missing -The Horn of Valere is just under a chair? -The first episode is the worst in the series and is borderline unwatchable, the Logainne episode is by far the best Thats all I got so far
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Dec 24, 2021 22:51
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Rarity posted:Do Trollocs count as people? I don't think so? Trollocs are trollocs. If they eat each other, well then thats just like... cultural, man. Maybe food scarcity caused cannibalism wouldn't be ingrained in trolloc culture if the oppressive humans shared their lands and didn't try to murder them all hmm? DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Dec 24, 2021 |
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Dec 24, 2021 23:26
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They have a few chapters in the books explaining where Fades and Trollocs come from that I hope is in this series. Speaking of Fades I was disappointed they barely show the Fades fighting anybody. I think just Thom and Lan so you don't really get a sense of how dangerous they are.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:35
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Long time book reader. I liked the series and will absolutely take it over not having one, but I do wish they'd done better. Overall, it was too rushed and they lingered overlong on the parts that were changed. They needed just a bit more time with the boys being jovial before poo poo went bad, Perrin and Mat especially. It deserved a 90 minute first episode and 1-2 more, or cut down on the funeral/warder stuff. Especially if you are just going to still Moiraine anyway. My biggest annoyance was the women going out to meet the trolloc army. Why not just stand in front of the gates where the siege weapons and archers could support you and you have a place to fall back to if Nynaeve hadn't turned out to be able to supercharge the circle? I could almost see it if Moiraine had led them since she knows her stuff but it just seemed like bad writing. Otherwise, lots of cool stuff. Bring on season two and here's hoping they don't get further derailed by problems outside their control.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:47
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Wait, if those five women could destroy an army of Trollocs, why not just have them do it from the wall and save all those men from dying?
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Dec 24, 2021 23:48
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Small White Dragon posted:Wait, if those five women could destroy an army of Trollocs, why not just have them do it from the wall and save all those men from dying? Wow, look at this person that hates TRADITION
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Dec 24, 2021 23:50
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Small White Dragon posted:Wait, if those five women could destroy an army of Trollocs, why not just have them do it from the wall and save all those men from dying? They didn't know they could do that.
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Dec 24, 2021 23:55
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Yeah, they didn't realise there was anyone who was actually Aes Sedai-powerful in the city, and Nynaeve (and I assume Egwene to some extent) are like plugging a big ol' car battery into a handheld flashlight.
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Dec 25, 2021 00:05
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:The Dark One is cool and good and should be freed imo He's hot and he makes a lot of really good points! 
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Dec 25, 2021 02:29
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I could watch him and Padan Fain chewing scenery all day long. The highlight of the episode for me.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:53
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Phenotype posted:Trying not to read spoilers, but is show good? Was thinking about watching it over the break now that the first season's out. Definitely don't expect Game of Thrones early season standard of writing, performance and direction. A few of the performances are great, very little of the writing is anything better than mediocre, and the direction is a bit of a mess. But it's probably quite a lot of fun to watch if you're not very familiar with the books. Grundulum posted:The show’s writers made some substantial changes to the finale, and not for the better. Any book information present under the spoiler text has already been directly contradicted by what was in the show, so it can’t spoil anything—the spoiler blocks are for people who are somehow still reading this thread without having watched the Season 1 finale. DeadFatDuckFat posted:I mean, we haven't seen trollocs do anything worse than humans at war would do. Unless they eat people? I can look past that if they do. Trollocs gotta eat too. limp_cheese posted:They have a few chapters in the books explaining where Fades and Trollocs come from that I hope is in this series. Then again the whole first half of book 1 is really about the young Eamond's Fielders being stalked across the world by various shadowspawn and darkfriends. It's written in a quite effectively unsettling and creepy way from the very first chapter. It's a drat shame they haven't captured this in the show so much IMO. Their first error was showing the fade's face and showing it just kind of wander into the middle of Eamond's Field and do its annoying ripoff Nazgul scream thing. MOVIE MAJICK posted:I like the way magic is visualized in this universe as weaving threads of power. Just wish it wasnt so mysterious and you had more verbalized 'spells' like the Witcher or Harry Potter. Small White Dragon posted:Wait, if those five women could destroy an army of Trollocs, why not just have them do it from the wall and save all those men from dying? Hint: the actual answer is, there is no reason, it makes no sense and is just how it is so that they could have the scene set up in the way it was.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:55
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Is it just me or is Perrins actor kinda terrible? Please stop with the low hoarse whisper.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:58
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cheesetriangles posted:Is it just me or is Perrins actor kinda terrible? Please stop with the low hoarse whisper. He's good he's just being given poo poo material, I think.
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Dec 25, 2021 02:59
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i hadn't noticed before the finale but yeah i thought he was pretty bad here. he's not getting good material, though. him and egwene's actress are the weak links for me. everyone else is decent to very good.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:00
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It doesn't help that Perrin only got half of the arc he has in the book into the show. BOOK SPOILERS Perrin and Egwayne have several chapters where they meet up with a guy who has the same powers as Perrin and he explains what the deal is with them. A ton of lore stuff gets talked about here that just doesn't come up in the show, including stuff about Ogier steadings and Artur Hawkwing, and then the guy they met leads them to the Tinkers after a cool chase sequence with a bunch of possessed ravens. So again for all the show runners talked about giving the non-Rand characters more to do they pretty much did the opposite and Perrin is the biggest victim.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:11
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So much for no book spoilers I guess?
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Dec 25, 2021 03:19
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:So much for no book spoilers I guess? The Thread weaves as the Thread wills.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:31
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People complaining about book spoilers every other post is way more annoying than than posters who are clearly identifying book spoiler posts that either simply give flavor or compare minor things that already happened in the show.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:33
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