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JazzFlight posted:The fact that a bunch of viewers, goons or otherwise, can’t definitively say one way or the other is a failing of the film. The Analyst specifically and explicitly says it's too much work for Agents to "overwrite a copper-top," so it's easier to saturate the human population with the bots, who are specifically and explicitly non-human programs. It's kind of weird that so many people in this thread are confused about it
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Dec 25, 2021 07:50
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CarpenterWalrus posted:The Analyst specifically and explicitly says it's too much work for Agents to "overwrite a copper-top," so it's easier to saturate the human population with the bots, who are specifically and explicitly non-human programs. It's kind of weird that so many people in this thread are confused about it It's more that it seems like a plot hole that they're so numerous as to jump by the thousands from high-rises in a kamikaze attack, and apparently complex enough to sustain long-term relationships with (presumably) real human partners. Which....seems to undermine the whole waste-of-runtime bit. I mean, that is admittedly kind of fan-wiki level analysis (the real reason is Lana W. wanted zombie movie action sequences).
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Dec 25, 2021 08:16
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The debate about bots/not bots is kind of pointless because the movie is pretty explicit that robots are people too
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Dec 25, 2021 08:40
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Loved the bots turning evil by running a matrix code windows screen saver over their pupils.
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Dec 25, 2021 09:06
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Finished the film". By far the best sequel film in the franchise...which isn't saying much but I had a fun time. I appreciated how self-aware it was, I mean the film really wasn't necessary and it does in a way make the original trilogy almost pointless. Jonathan Groff is amazing as Mr. Smith though. Didn't miss Hugo Weaving at all.
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Dec 25, 2021 09:30
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GD_American posted:It's more that it seems like a plot hole that they're so numerous as to jump by the thousands from high-rises in a kamikaze attack, and apparently complex enough to sustain long-term relationships with (presumably) real human partners. Which....seems to undermine the whole waste-of-runtime bit. CarpenterWalrus posted:The Analyst specifically and explicitly says it's too much work for Agents to "overwrite a copper-top," so it's easier to saturate the human population with the bots, who are specifically and explicitly non-human programs. It's kind of weird that so many people in this thread are confused about it I don't know how this is being as badly misunderstood as it is. The movie layed it out very simply but somehow even it's efforts to explain itself clearly are misinterpreted. Bots are not programs pretending to be human. What is meant by "saturating the human population" is that for the same effort it takes for one specific agent with his gigabytes of personality, memories and physical appearence to download into only one person, you can instead simply bulk-download hundreds or thousands of unintelligent and crude bot programs into everyone within a certain radius. That's why they are living ordinary human lives with jobs and hobbies and relationships, and then you see the matrix code in their eyes, and then suddenly they have blank expressions on their faces and are dumb as poo poo. That's them becoming bots. Does this not make more sense than assuming that everyone in everywhere redpills ever go is not a bluepill? For them not to be real people in the numbers shown, the matrix would be almost completely uninhabited by actual humans. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 10:10
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Since the movie has synthients and ai who are recognized as individuals with their own agency, why are the goon swarms also not considered slaves of the botgeoisie?
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Dec 25, 2021 10:25
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i have no idea if thats right but it sounds like it makes sense, except the bit about everyone in a certain range cos aren't there scenes where one person in a bed or room turns into a zombie bot and the other just screams in shock?
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Dec 25, 2021 10:26
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HorseLord posted:I don't know how this is being as badly misunderstood as it is. The movie layed it out very simply but somehow even it's efforts to explain itself clearly are misinterpreted.
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Dec 25, 2021 10:30
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DaveKap posted:Matrix comics (that I believe were supposed to be canon) show that when an agent is injured or killed, they transform back into the human they took over, and the human doesn't understand why they are injured... if they aren't dead. The bots, on the other hand, decompile into code when they die. This could certainly cause some confusing about what's what wrt bots vs agents. They don't though, not for most of the film. You see them get machinedgunned to death all over that japanese bullet train and then they're just corpses. Code flies out of them when they jump out of buildings and go splat, but that can easily be written off as an act of censorship. If you show people's bodies realistically bursting open from hard impacts over and over again your movie is unreleasable. There's the in universe question of how the machines choose to cover up bot swarm incidents. The train can be written off as terrorism, a bunch of people machinegunned and then a bomb set off. Three thousand people jump out of windows for several city blocks and that doesn't have a rational explanation. The matrix goo coming out of them might well just be them getting teleported back and memory wiped at the point of impact. It would fit with how they eraised Neo's office getting shredded by machinegun fire. NotJustANumber99 posted:i have no idea if thats right but it sounds like it makes sense, except the bit about everyone in a certain range cos aren't there scenes where one person in a bed or room turns into a zombie bot and the other just screams in shock? Not everyone gets got at once. They were gradually turning in the train scene. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 10:40
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HorseLord posted:Code flies out of them when they jump out of buildings and go splat, but that can easily be written off as an act of censorship.
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Dec 25, 2021 10:46
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Why was the cat CGI? At the very end, the cat is especially CGI. It was probably real in a few scenes but it def had the uncanny valley thing going on most of the time
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Dec 25, 2021 10:49
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DaveKap posted:...maybe it's just me but I feel like this immediately voids this entire discussion. the first third of the movie is about the conflict between the artist's intent and the contstraints and demands placed on her by warner bros agent smith says it out loud
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Dec 25, 2021 10:50
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DaveKap posted:...maybe it's just me but I feel like this immediately voids this entire discussion. I mean, actual humans are also just code in the Matrix and don't need to leave a corpse if the machines don't want them to. SimonChris fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 10:54
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the jumpers were censored which is proof they are people. checkmateDaveKap posted:Matrix comics (that I believe were supposed to be canon) show that when an agent is injured or killed, they transform back into the human they took over, and the human doesn't understand why they are injured... if they aren't dead. The bots, on the other hand, decompile into code when they die. This could certainly cause some confusing about what's what wrt bots vs agents. there's also like matrix 1 where the agent trinity executes is shown turning back into a dead cop guy. I had been assuming that an agent taking over someone killed them period, so I thought it was like a fun surprise in Resurrections when the agent turns back into a confused guy but idk Eat The Rich posted:Why was the cat CGI? At the very end, the cat is especially CGI. It was probably real in a few scenes but it def had the uncanny valley thing going on most of the time cause it's not real. next
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Dec 25, 2021 10:55
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PT6A posted:Not related to you specifically, but looking at some reviews and criticisms of this film, it's amazing the degree to which people can not only miss subtext but the actual text of the film itself. I don't think it bodes well for film as a medium, because if you have to spell out every tiny detail multiple times to make sure it doesn't go over anyone's head, it really hamstrings your ability to create art. The Scream making GBS threads Reviewer @ShittingReviewer time to livetweet the new matrix 🧵 first off they're just doing the beginning of the matrix 1 again only there's a blue haired sjw watching in the corner. that didn't happen in the first movie so this an obvious continuity error. i can't believe they could gently caress up so badly 💬 10 ♻️ 45.9K ⭐50.2K
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Dec 25, 2021 10:56
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How advanced was this video game that Tom Anderson made in 1999? The way people talk about it, they make it sound like "The Last of Us" or some poo poo in terms of interactive story-telling.
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Dec 25, 2021 11:00
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The modal that new morpheus comes from was from Neo's perspective a dev build of the game running on his office computer, and when he's loving with it we see streight up matrix code rain on his monitor. So apparently the game is literally the matrix, but being ran recursively
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Dec 25, 2021 11:06
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punk rebel ecks posted:How advanced was this video game that Tom Anderson made in 1999? The way people talk about it, they make it sound like "The Last of Us" or some poo poo in terms of interactive story-telling.
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Dec 25, 2021 11:08
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GD_American posted:I think the original was pretty effective at that in parts. The jacked-in baby being covered in black dead-people juice was definitely a part that stuck with me. The unplugging of Neo from his pod in the original also had some nice touches, like the violence of the cables popping out, the sudden flushing of the amniotic fluid, and how the hovering bot clamped him on the neck to finish the process. The visual violence and mechanical horror of the process came through very well. Yeah! That part has been missing from the films since the original. The first film is a lot more gothic in tone and presentation than the sequels, the only thing they really kept are the outfits. Eat The Rich posted:Why was the cat CGI? At the very end, the cat is especially CGI. It was probably real in a few scenes but it def had the uncanny valley thing going on most of the time That cat sure seems like a plot thread that got cut. Or it's laying the groundwork for The Catrix. Carecat fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 11:09
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VROOM VROOM posted:the jumpers were censored which is proof they are people. checkmate what happens to agent smith (and the person he would've been possessing at the time) when he dies at the end of matrix 1
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Dec 25, 2021 11:11
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they both fuckin died but he lived on in the sequels as a chain email that actually only got sent to the recycle bin also v glad to have been totally right besides us all thinking neo was an actor
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Dec 25, 2021 11:21
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This is my husband, Chad.
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Dec 25, 2021 11:27
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Mike N Eich posted:Compare the action in the first Matrix - halfway through there's a fight scene were a good chunk of the humans just straight up get murdered easily by Agents. This is not a thing that happens in the first movie. The only person an Agent kills in the first movie is Neo, briefly.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:14
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Carecat posted:Yeah! That part has been missing from the films since the original. The first film is a lot more gothic in tone and presentation than the sequels, the only thing they really kept are the outfits. Haven't stopped to think about that before but you're right, with one scene that stands out to me in particular is the first time Neo meets Morpheus and takes the red pill in that decrepit building during a storm, it was such a perfectly moody scene. Going from such a gothic tone to the trippy/freaky mirror effects before being blasted with clinical whiteness was a superb sequence. It's been ages since I watched the original but am I right in remembering that what immediately follows is Neo's shocking real-world awakening and disposal? Going from gothic to trippy to minimalist to industrial cyberpunk and it all actually working is a huge accomplishment. Just remembered that scene when they're all hiding in the walls and once they're heard Morpheus bursts out to tackle an agent and it's such a "Here we loving go!" moment because of how the movie had built his character up and we were accustomed to everyone running up until then  Seedge posted:This is not a thing that happens in the first movie. The only person an Agent kills in the first movie is Neo, briefly. I think they might be thinking of Cypher's (?) betrayal when he was pulling plugs and they were dropping dead.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:24
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SUNKOS posted:Haven't stopped to think about that before but you're right, with one scene that stands out to me in particular is the first time Neo meets Morpheus and takes the red pill in that decrepit building during a storm, it was such a perfectly moody scene. Going from such a gothic tone to the trippy/freaky mirror effects before being blasted with clinical whiteness was a superb sequence. It's been ages since I watched the original but am I right in remembering that what immediately follows is Neo's shocking real-world awakening and disposal? Going from gothic to trippy to minimalist to industrial cyberpunk and it all actually working is a huge accomplishment. Yeah, that awakening scene isn't as viscerally upsetting as the resurrection scene is in 4, but considering at this point we don't really know what the gently caress is going on, it's quite the thing. Reeves' reaction to getting the plug pulled out, going from pain to blank eyes, really sticks in my head as a memorable reaction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpyaKWY9HOc I wish I could remember what I felt like the first time I watched this.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:44
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ded posted:This is my husband, Chad. (Stahelski)
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Dec 25, 2021 15:09
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SUNKOS posted:I think they might be thinking of Cypher's (?) betrayal when he was pulling plugs and they were dropping dead. Yeah, Cypher has a higher body count than any agent in the trilogy, I think.
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Dec 25, 2021 15:41
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Seedge posted:Yeah, Cypher has a higher body count than any agent in the trilogy, I think. Bane/Smith popped an EMP off screen and got a bunch of hovercraft crews killed iirc
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Dec 25, 2021 15:49
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Also the whole highway battle definitely resulted in a lot of deaths.
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Dec 25, 2021 15:56
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I just want to mention how the movie effectively eviscerated The One male fantasy BS I honestly thought it would be all about. Esp from the trailer. Thats pretty cool.
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Dec 25, 2021 16:10
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Eat The Rich posted:Why was the cat CGI? At the very end, the cat is especially CGI. It was probably real in a few scenes but it def had the uncanny valley thing going on most of the time just to be clear: you're asking why a cat literally named Deja Vu, who is actually some kind of weird living interface for a computer demiurge, is CGI instead of a live cat? probably because animals are awful to work with Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 16:17
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this movie sure won't get over reminiscing this constant flashbacks and seeing the old movies really drives home how bad this movie is in comparison. The first 30 minutes of the movie got me. I was like huh, i wonder where this is going and then it got all "wink-wink" about retreading the same territory and lo, thats the entire movie so far.
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Dec 25, 2021 16:52
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ded posted:This is my husband, Chad. Poor Neo, cucked by a Chad
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Dec 25, 2021 16:53
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You can train a cat to do one trick and it will take forever and the cat will still most of the time decide to do whatever the gently caress it wants. Cat are not dogs, if you are writing a script with animals never include a cat that has to do anything. E: mixed feelings about the film. I really dug the messages it had and how brazenly meta it was willing to be, but the action sequences all fell a bit flat for me. There was nothing that matched the lobby scene from the first film, or the mansion fight or highway chase sequences from the second, much less anything like the experience of seeing a film do bullet time for the first time ever. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 17:09
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Alchenar posted:You can train a cat to do one trick and it will take forever and the cat will still most of the time decide to do whatever the gently caress it wants. Cat are not dogs, if you are writing a script with animals never include a cat that has to do anything. the action sucks and it's too self-referential. It's a parody. It reminds me of when movies try to copy the magic of an 80s action movie
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Dec 25, 2021 17:22
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No Mods No Masters posted:The movie just doesn't have much interest in the average joe. It's mainly concerned about the plight of lana wachowski personally, only worth low 9 figures and sadly not having enough power (have to listen to notes from stupid warner people, ugh 🙄) The bootlicker jumped out
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Dec 25, 2021 18:38
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I think a lot of people are missing that In Resurrections, we are not seeing the real Matrix. We are seeing a version of the Matrix that is housing Neo and Trinity. It's a prison exclusively for just these two because they are trouble makers that ruin everything. I like how this mirrors the part where Neo is put in a tower prison in Io.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:52
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The bot thing seems like something where they worked backwards from thinking having the agents possessing people to commit suicide en masse would be seen as too mean and then they worked it into the story from that.
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 19:03
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I said come in! posted:I think a lot of people are missing that In Resurrections, we are not seeing the real Matrix. We are seeing a version of the Matrix that is housing Neo and Trinity. It's a prison exclusively for just these two because they are trouble makers that ruin everything. I like how this mirrors the part where Neo is put in a tower prison in Io. Nope. Bugs saw Neo when she was a prisoner in the Matrix. Unless they created a sub-Matrix after his suicide attempt, Neo and Trinity are sharing it with others.
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Dec 25, 2021 19:09
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