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nine-gear crow posted:The Thread weaves as the Thread wills. He is thread'verern
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Dec 25, 2021 03:42
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El Grillo posted:
Uh, when were we told in the show they can detect each other's strength? It's a literal plot point that none of the AS even knew Nynaeve could channel let alone how strong she was until she went super-saiyan. My take away there was they can tell it when she uses the Power but she didn't use it in the city at all.
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Dec 25, 2021 03:53
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I like this idea. Like I said in This thread before. I read a lot of the books as a young teen and I don't remember anything. I remember more of any other generic fantasy star wars novel stuff from that time. Now you have an adaption of what was mostly bland unmemorable fantasy going against adaptions of good fantasy like the Witcher (not as a good of a season 1 as this) and game of thrones. The only way you come close to capturing an audienceal and making a watchable show is to cut all the nerd book bullshit and have some real world character development, and drama.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:15
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I posted My Take in the book thread but I'll share it here tooHieronymous Alloy posted:I think I have My Take on the show so far at this point. Overall I like the series, and a lot of the parts I'm not happy with, it's clear they were constrained by COVID, the departure of Barney Harris, or just the general needs of the medium. And there are some things the show does better than the books. But overall I think I just enjoy books a lot more than a lot of modern television, which, go figure, of course I do. Show's still good and I think it'll be even better in future seasons once the weight of getting all the exposition and setup is out of the way. This whole season was basically the introduction and it had a lot to introduce. I just also hope that in future seasons the show gets more room to breathe and we get more of the happy, restful beats that the show pretty ruthlessly cut in favor of faster pacing and more dramatic action.
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Dec 25, 2021 04:55
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I like the show fine so far, but if it wants to be for adults and not YA they need to ditch the dumb relationship drama stuff. It was just glaringly out of place. I get that they wanted drama that wasn't just "men are like x, and women are like y" but this isn't a good substitute. The entire point of the warring genders thing in the books was that it was bad and actively made it harder for characters to communicate crucial information, this doesn't serve the same function at all.
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Dec 25, 2021 05:07
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sweet geek swag posted:I like the show fine so far, but if it wants to be for adults and not YA they need to ditch the dumb relationship drama stuff. It was just glaringly out of place. I get that they wanted drama that wasn't just "men are like x, and women are like y" but this isn't a good substitute. The entire point of the warring genders thing in the books was that it was bad and actively made it harder for characters to communicate crucial information, this doesn't serve the same function at all. the big fight between the four people in 7 was unbelievably bad. the writing in general, both in terms of character motivation and dialogue is super weak and the worst part of the series by far. which is really loving annoying considering they have a book series right there. if it's going to be bad then just use the book stuff! the acting is good, some of the sets have been great, in other words the poo poo that's difficult to accomplish, they've accomplished. the otherwise relatively simple task of repeating words that were already written has somehow been hosed up.
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Dec 25, 2021 05:18
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sweet geek swag posted:I like the show fine so far, but if it wants to be for adults and not YA they need to ditch the dumb relationship drama stuff. It was just glaringly out of place. I get that they wanted drama that wasn't just "men are like x, and women are like y" but this isn't a good substitute. The entire point of the warring genders thing in the books was that it was bad and actively made it harder for characters to communicate crucial information, this doesn't serve the same function at all. What are you talking about? They cut all the stupid gender essentialism out.
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Dec 25, 2021 07:08
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I really enjoyed this season, felt the finale worked really well. As i've said many times, I was not a fan of the book, and basically skimmed a big section of the book so my memory is hazy. Spoiler talk the only thing i really didn't like is the Dark One just appearing as a ambiguously ethnic man basically wearing a suit. I liked when he was a crazy monster raisin man briefly. Though in some discussions that may not have been the Dark one. Though I liked that Rand defeated him and resisted the temptation because he's been drinking the repect women juice and knew that Egwene had her own goals and dreams and they didn't match up with what he wanted, but he respected that choice. Good for the show. Though Mats back, and i hated Mat. He's the Darkstar of WoT. The trouble emo boy archetype that no one likes and just sucks. Rand constantly making excuses for him drove me up the wall. Egwene clearly the smarter one who saw that he was dead weight and to just let him go. I re watched a lore video about the backstory, it didn't have any story spoilers, but i'm sure stuff in it will be revealed later on but its really cool that this is far, far far future earth, that things from our times exist and myths from a first age, and that somehow magic was discovered and became part of humanity, which eventually lead to them seeking more power and unleashing the Dark One by drilling into reality and unleashing him. Realizing that made me realized that the map, while kinda boring and uninspired, at least makes sense, as its our world with higher sea levels and a few global disasters reshaping everything. Also explained why there are channelers in every culture, but their organization is different. This helped understand what was going on with the invaders. Seanchan being sorta Mongol Aztecs/Maya is a cool concept. Though I am reminded of something from ages past. I was, like a lot of people, under the delusion that Sword of Truth books were good, and I remember remarking after Nicci destroying an entire army on her own how it was cool to see a female magic user so powerful in a book, because even in novels with powerful sorceresses, they are still shown to be using their powers in support and nurturing ways. And a goon told me "that's nothing, the average Aes Sedai from Wheel of Time is way more powerful" but it doesn't really come across in the show, they get tired, over powered, and doesn't seem like that statement is true. Did they make them less powerful in the show or was that goon all those years ago over stating things. Though I am no longer of the opinion that SoT is a good book series, I just wish i had realized that long before i bought the last 5 books in hardcover.
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Dec 25, 2021 07:18
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CainFortea posted:What are you talking about? They cut all the stupid gender essentialism out. The Perrin/Egwene thing was supported by, what, two offhand comments in episode 1 (edit: I just remembered what Machin Shin says to Perrin. So make that three comments with five episodes of nothing in between) until suddenly it is the center of a huge argument in episode 7. This despite the fact that those two spent a significant amount of time around each other where this could have been developed further. And even if the show did spend time on that story arc that they made up, it’s a stupid arc. “You like the girl I like, how dare you, I called dibs” is high-school-level bullshit, especially when Perrin has the obvious out of “I am mourning my wife who died two months ago, could you maybe not accuse me of something I didn’t do?” That entire scene with them arguing around the table in episode 7 kinda feels like the writers had about thirty minutes to come up with a new scene that didn’t include Mat and still got the other characters where they were supposed to go. Grundulum fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 07:28
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CainFortea posted:What are you talking about? They cut all the stupid gender essentialism out. Plus every time a character who shows up that disregards or is actively hostile what their peers of the opposite gender think or do like "#KillAllMen" Liandrin, or "lol what do women know, now watch this drive [causes the apocalypse]" Lews, the show very explicitly calls them out as being wrong and standing against the message the show is slowing beginning to unfurl that men and women should in fact stand as equals and respect each other and straying too far to either side of the arc is bad and poisonous.
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Dec 25, 2021 07:29
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Grundulum posted:The Perrin/Egwene thing was supported by, what, two offhand comments in episode 1 (edit: I just remembered what Machin Shin says to Perrin. So make that three comments with five episodes of nothing in between) until suddenly it is the center of a huge argument in episode 7. This despite the fact that those two spent a significant amount of time around each other where this could have been developed further. And even if the show did spend time on that story arc that they made up, it’s a stupid arc. “You like the girl I like, how dare you, I called dibs” is high-school-level bullshit, especially when Perrin has the obvious out of “I am mourning my wife who died two months ago, could you maybe not accuse me of something I didn’t do?” There is no perrin/egwene arc. There, solved it.
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Dec 25, 2021 08:32
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It's less a love triangle and more a conflict based on the characters being freaked out by the suggestion of the possibility of a love triangle. I felt like they threw it in there as a substitute for whatever it was that was originally incited the events of the episode, but had to be cut due to the sudden loss of a major actor. The same holds true for everything going on with Padan Fain in Fal Dara. The war scene was pretty weak in parts. It's not that it's tactically unsound or anything like that, of course. Stage fighting is a metaphor, so for instance when the channelers were outside the walls with no cover that meant that they were there expecting to die as the next line of defense. It could've been done better, more spatially interesting and so forth, but it looked pretty and got the point across. The part that didn't do it for me was the cavalry charge. They weren't charging at anything! They're waiting for the enemy to attack the fortress!
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Dec 25, 2021 09:43
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It was super weird that they set up the Fal Daran women setting up the city's defences and then that didn't come into play. All we got was a yay women strong speech from Amalisa instead of actually getting to see women kick rear end
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Dec 25, 2021 09:59
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I rather liked that, and it made it clear that Amalisa was certain she was making a doomed last stand. She had no expectation of actually stopping the horde, she was just trying to kill as many as possible before they hit the city to give the defenders as much of a chance as she could.
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Dec 25, 2021 10:06
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Sorry, but after slowly and steadily getting better each episode, the finale was kind of a Dud. Good things: Rand getting more characterization, Moiraines development and the Lady of the city looking cool as gently caress in her golden Armor. What annoyed me, episode and season overall: - Loial still useless and no door into Ogier-society at all - The evil king was absolutely underwhelming and had presence and look of a waiter who was not able to button his shirt correctly. Fain was way more believable as seducing smarmy evil guy. - Deaths and deadly illnnesses are cured way to quick and easy. When necessary. Whon not, it just doesn't happen. - Every bigger battle is resolved by some variant of big magic explosion. Give me more swordfighting! Tied to this: Fades should be shown do something to cement their status. What i remember of them is either screaming, standing ominous over some corpses and getting held of by a bard with a knife. To be clear: I enjoyed it and will watch season 2 but in no way can this show hold its own against Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings.
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Dec 25, 2021 12:17
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Bongo Bill posted:It's less a love triangle and more a conflict based on the characters being freaked out by the suggestion of the possibility of a love triangle. I felt like they threw it in there as a substitute for whatever it was that was originally incited the events of the episode, but had to be cut due to the sudden loss of a major actor. The same holds true for everything going on with Padan Fain in Fal Dara. Heh, yeah, I kept noticing things about the battle that suggested it was a paint-by-numbers imitation game where the writers really had no idea what they wanted tactically to happen. - Cavalry charge because ... well, cavalries charge in battles, right? That's what they do! Inspirational yell to kick it off, just like in that one movie we saw that one time - The battle occurs on a big flat featureless plain which has apparently been prepared as a battlefield for hundreds of years, might as well set up bleachers - The Trollocs just screaming across the gap and flinging themselves against the wall, I lmao'ed my head off. What are they expecting to accomplish? This is how you attack a wall? Just run at top speed into it and then pile yourselves up until you form a mound tall enough to climb to the convenient windows placed in the face of the wall? Did nobody think to bring ladders? Siege engines? What are walls - Also yeah the way you make a wall across a gap in the rocks defensible is to build it as HIGH as possible, HEIGHT is everything. Yeah fill it full of windows to put archers in at like seven different levels where the enemy can get in, but hey as long as you build the overall wall HIGH enough they'll never climb over it! It's not like they just have to get into the first level of windows and then they own the interior or anything - "Ready, aim, fire!" Because archers use the term fire I am the farthest thing from a war nerd but jesus
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Dec 25, 2021 13:51
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Those windows, lol. Not arrow slits. The level of condersention for the viewers topped seasons 7 & 8 GOT imo. It felt very much like an fps hoard mode.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:00
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hey at least the men didn't win
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Dec 25, 2021 14:28
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bou posted:Sorry, but after slowly and steadily getting better each episode, the finale was kind of a Dud. Good things: Rand getting more characterization, Moiraines development and the Lady of the city looking cool as gently caress in her golden Armor. "Bus Boy / Waiter at the end of his shift" is a great way to describe him. I didn't care for the actor, and even less for the untucked shirt. Cmon dude be a loving professional. Him pushing the arrow through his eye was cool though. Fain is a way better baddie. I think I mostly agree that I enjoyed the season overall but I don't think it'll beat out its contemporaries in long term popularity or overall quality. For as much as people say the magic is fleshed out in the books it always felt pretty contrived to me, and I think it'll be even moreso in the show as I doubt they'll dive too deep into the different weaves to try and explain it. Beyond what Moiraine tells Lan I definitely didn't think she was stilled, merely shielded. Comparing the screenshots that were posted a page or two back I feel like the explosion out of Logain wasn't just the corruption but also because he's way more powerful than the Aes Sedai so there's ostensibly more to remove?  Also how do we know an Ogier's heart is vaguely near where a human's is  Looking forward to season 2, but hopefully they'll have less to introduce and therefore more time for characters to breathe and flesh things out rather than hopping around too fast too frequently. Definitely sad to lose Mat's actor. I wasn't sold on Perrin's casting and I'm still not, although I'm not sure how much of it's because the character is boring at best or if it's the actor (I'm pretty sure it's equal parts of both). Egwene and Nynaeve and Moiraine have all been great and Rand grew on me quite a bit. Still didn't like the Blight but the actual Eye was a very cool set. I really don't remember the books well enough to to have picked out how the endings differed here but regardless I like not really knowing where things are going for a lot of the characters.
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Dec 25, 2021 14:36
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shadow puppet of a posted:Weak makeup on the boaty baldies. Cowardly to drop the Jordanian nerdy bdsm-lite connotations that weave through the novels but oh well. Ah yes, they dropped the...I imagine the meeting in the writers' room went something like this: "I think collars and leashes are a little too kink-adjacent, got any suggestions to fix that? "How about if we give them ball gags instead?" 
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Dec 25, 2021 15:00
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worst episode so far everything from writing to acting to effects was either boring or stupid it was also a bold choice to cast the swedish chef as satan
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Dec 25, 2021 15:02
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In the episode's defense, I will say that the end of the first book is widely considered to be an incoherent mess too, including apparently by Jordan So, y'know. In that sense it is perfect
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Dec 25, 2021 15:41
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CainFortea posted:What are you talking about? They cut all the stupid gender essentialism out. You should maybe look at what I wrote again, because that is my point. They replaced that stuff with this dumb relationship drama. I'm not saying bring back the pointless war of the sexes stuff, but I am saying replace it with something that brings in a narratively interesting dynamic rather than... this.
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Dec 25, 2021 15:42
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i mean i agree the relationship drama is a particulaly weak part of the show, but it's really not been a large part of it. i wouldn't call lan and nyaneve drama. it's really just a few scenes involving rand, perrin and egwene over the course of the season. i'd be surprised if it all totals more than 10 minutes.
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Dec 25, 2021 15:48
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It's really easy to see who is a book reader and who isn't based on the reaction to "relationship drama" haha
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Dec 25, 2021 15:54
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:It's really easy to see who is a book reader and who isn't based on the reaction to "relationship drama" haha I read the book and have no issues with the relationship stuff. My main problem with episode 7 is with the Dragon reveal, which I think was poorly done and not well earned due to a failure to clearly portray the prophecies of the dragon to the audience and how Rand fits them. Rand just seems to kind of decide he's the dragon out of nowhere because "oh poo poo we're running out of time to tell the audience who the dragon is".
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Dec 25, 2021 15:56
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Is it really "a failure to clearly portray the prophecies" when the whole season Moiraine's been going, "We really don't know who we're looking for"? It's fine if you didn't like the show being Moiraine's story, but like it was clearly a deliberate choice to make it a "mystery". The only piece I didn't like was it being Rand to blast a Trolloc in the ways because that just felt like an arbitrary inclusion. Him knocking down the reinforced door certainly wasn't as cool as the book equivalent, but it was there. Moiraine saying "One of you is TDR" in ep1 and then the camera immediately cuts to Rand. Or him recognizing the mountain in Ep6, I think it was -- there was plenty of foreshadowing it was him. I'm not really sure how one "earns it" when everyone is merely subjects to the wheel weaving as the wheel wills.
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Dec 25, 2021 16:14
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I'm inclined to be generous and I'll give it another season or two, because I want to see what the show runners pull off when they have more money, time, and less executive pressure from corporate. There's definitely some good parts and some bad parts and I'm asking myself: are the good parts just flukes, and are the bad parts just the show working under time constraints or casting/production woes? Loial, the Dragon Reborn reveal, and Two Rivers itself I felt were the weakest parts of the season that needed more time to properly develop. I did enjoy knock-off Satan. It seemed weird that he was overly chummy with Rand, but it seemed to make sense that they're so close to his prison he's able to interact more casually with the world, down to cutting Moiraine off from magic when they're standing right on top of it. He has all the power, even with her knife to Rand's throat, so he can afford to be chill. I was underwhelmed by the prologue scene because it feels like it could have more directly supported the finale, showing the original Dragon binding the Dark One in the same place instead of casually chatting in Klingon with some rando. Morrow fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 16:19
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Yea I didn't care for the opening to this finale. I'll absolutely watch S2 and unless it's Seriously Bad then I'll definitely watch S3 too.
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Dec 25, 2021 16:22
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Nitrousoxide posted:I read the book and have no issues with the relationship stuff. Do you think the prophecies of the dragon were clearly portrayed in Eye? Or were they kind of wonky to the point that RJ had a character explicitly say so in the text? Hint: it's the second one.
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Dec 25, 2021 16:28
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Devorum posted:Do you think the prophecies of the dragon were clearly portrayed in Eye? Or were they kind of wonky to the point that RJ had a character explicitly say so in the text? Unless I’m forgetting it Rand is not told about any of the facets of the prophecies of the dragon in the TV show. He’s not told about how the dragon will be born on dragonmount or the other aspects. There’s no reason for him to decide he’s THE ONE in the show, anymore than the other E5. I think the only thing Moraine even knows is the age the Dragon should be. None of this is earned, and there’s no reason Rand should have decided he’s the Dragon, nor any reason Moraine should have trusted he was.
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Dec 25, 2021 16:42
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Well that's just silly. The black wind flat out tells him he's it, pretty sure Min was rather explicit too but I'm not going to pull up last episode to double check right now, he literally says he recognizes the mountain he should otherwise have zero reason to recognize, and he knows he knocked that door down. Even if he didn't know he blasted the Trolloc there are a good few things going on in his mind What would "earning it" look like to you?
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Dec 25, 2021 16:49
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gently caress it too spoilery
Svensken fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 16:54
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Removed because the OP removed the spoilers
Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 16:55
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Honestly not much. I'm genuinely sorry if you didn't know about the second spoiler. I still think the first one is pretty obvious regardless if you've read the books or just watched the show. I removed my reasoning why, along with the actual spoilers, in case I'm being colored by book knowledge.
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Dec 25, 2021 17:02
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I thought this was the weakest episode, mostly because it seemed like they just ran out of money after that opening scene, and we were left with some grungy looking cgi, and a bunch of stuff from the books that was probably cut due to being too expensive. Overall I thought the first season was good, and the show did a good job given the lack of resources. But I’m also a believer in not adapting something for tv if you can’t do it justice. And if they are already cutting corners now, then I hate to think what will happen later on now that the warmup book is done.
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Dec 25, 2021 17:04
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Rand knows he's the Dragon cause deep down he can feel a connection to his past life. Like, they make this very explicit at the Eye.
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Dec 25, 2021 17:35
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Sab669 posted:Well that's just silly. The black wind flat out tells him he's it, pretty sure Min was rather explicit too but I'm not going to pull up last episode to double check right now, he literally says he recognizes the mountain he should otherwise have zero reason to recognize, and he knows he knocked that door down. Even if he didn't know he blasted the Trolloc there are a good few things going on in his mind I didn't hate the Rand reveal or anything, but it absolutely ended up being as if him and Moiraine took all this on faith, like they somehow knew it in their hearts, instead of it being something that they deduced from convincing evidence. The show just ultimately never gave us non-book readers a good picture of what the Dragon would actually be like; we knew that they would be a certain age and be very powerful and that was basically it, everything else was vague generalization, so when Rand goes "Oh, I can channel, it must be me," it feels like he was connecting dots we were never even shown. We have no idea why being secretly Aiel, or recognizing a mountain, should having anything to do with being the Dragon (remember that the show had told us absolutely nothing about Dragonmount or why this place should be important to anything) (and it still hasn't, tbh). Yeah he can channel, but is he a powerful channeler? Heck, we had thought the Dragon should probably be able to channel, but Moiraine also outright said that they don't actually know how the Dragon's power would manifest, so Rand being able to channel still didn't preclude Perrin or Mat, much less Egwene who also channels anyway. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 17:43
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Rand is a little bitch
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Dec 25, 2021 17:48
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It's definitely a problem with the structure of the show. I'm rereading EOTW for the first time right now and I can't even think of any descriptions of prophecies so far -- but it's OK for the book to "fail" there because it never tried to make you think TDR could be anyone but Rand. And I mean, it seems pretty fair for The Dragon Reborn to known it in his heart, on account of being The Dragon Reborn. Like poo poo, by that logic why did Logain ever think he was it?
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Dec 25, 2021 18:01
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