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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Okay, but that line of thought can be extended to all kinds of poo poo. Fat people? Should have exercised more. Lung cancer? Did you smoke? At a certain point you have to accept that living in society means having to look out for everyone regardless. Most of these people are victims of a machine funded by billionaires and pushed via unaccountable and unregulated social media.
Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 19:10
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I dunno, I feel like the willfully-unvaccinated are less victims of mean ol' social media and more proudly, actively, and intentionally engaged in a biological warfare campaign against their fellow citizens. At this point, personally, I say gently caress 'em.
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Dec 25, 2021 19:22
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Professor Beetus posted:Okay, but that line of thought can be extended to all kinds of poo poo. Fat people? Should have exercised more. Lung cancer? Did you smoke? At a certain point you have to accept that living in society means having to look out for everyone regardless. Most of these people are victims of a machine funded by billionaires and pushed via unaccountable and unregulated social media. A shot is a one off thing, not decades of lifestyle and genetics and psychology etc. You can go get one right this instant.
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Dec 25, 2021 19:22
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Professor Beetus posted:Okay, but that line of thought can be extended to all kinds of poo poo. Fat people? Should have exercised more. Lung cancer? Did you smoke? At a certain point you have to accept that living in society means having to look out for everyone regardless. Most of these people are victims of a machine funded by billionaires and pushed via unaccountable and unregulated social media. I don't know if victim is the right word here, I am a big proponent of personal responsibility and hence the need to think for yourself (applies to all sides here). On a moral level, I think the triage and denying the unvaccinated ICU care is in the context of running out of ICU beds. In Ontario, the unvaccinated still make up 2 out of every 3 ICU cases and in the grim event that ICU beds are going to get saturated, then I think it is reasonable that the first line of triage is to determine vaccination status. I mean the thinking of those who refuse the vaccine is that they have the right to choose to take the risk of COVID vs the risk of vaccination side effects right? Ok, well if you need an ICU bed and we are approaching capacity - sorry bud, I guess you chose wrong.
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Dec 25, 2021 19:23
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Professor Beetus posted:Okay, but that line of thought can be extended to all kinds of poo poo. Fat people? Should have exercised more. Lung cancer? Did you smoke? At a certain point you have to accept that living in society means having to look out for everyone regardless. Most of these people are victims of a machine funded by billionaires and pushed via unaccountable and unregulated social media. we could use credit scores! e: even in the most extreme initial NYC wave we only needed to triage on disease presentation and age (afai heard) age is still a far better indicator of eventual outcome than vaccination. unless you are expecting your community to look like India in a month, triaging on vaccination status is either strictly punitive or moot fosborb fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 19:26
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We had 500,000 more nurses in the US during that wave
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Dec 25, 2021 19:43
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Professor Beetus posted:At a certain point you have to accept that living in society means having to look out for everyone regardless.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:06
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From what I recall of the triage guidelines up here during our bad wave this winter (that thankfully were never needed) vaccination status was mentioned as a factor that would be taken into account but wasn't the end all be all since it's not like you ever would get two identical patients with the exception of vaccination status. It's still basically "who has the better chance of survival if they get the bed" so a young unvaccinated person probably would get the bed before an old vaccinated person with a bunch of comorbidities.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:06
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It seems like the needlessly punitive thing here would be telling hospitals they can't do triage by vaccination status? Like either the vaccine doesn't affect outcomes for hospitalized patients so saying you can't use it for triage is pointless, or it does and saying you can't use it for triage is making crisis standards of care worse for the sake of politics.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:31
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:From what I recall of the triage guidelines up here during our bad wave this winter (that thankfully were never needed) vaccination status was mentioned as a factor that would be taken into account but wasn't the end all be all since it's not like you ever would get two identical patients with the exception of vaccination status. It's still basically "who has the better chance of survival if they get the bed" so a young unvaccinated person probably would get the bed before an old vaccinated person with a bunch of comorbidities. Triage needs to prioritize bed-days. An old person who will die ASAP is a better bet than an anti vaxx young person who will survive perhaps after months on the vent, disabled to the point they can't contribute to the battle against the virus or future military efforts.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:31
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How are u posted:So if omi ends up overwhelming the health are systems, do yall think we will see new rules sending the unvaxinated to the end of the line? The rule change appears to be "send sick healthcare professionals back to work". And yes, even if they're asymptomatic, they are sick and infectious.
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Dec 25, 2021 20:32
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Judakel posted:The rule change appears to be "send sick healthcare professionals back to work". And yes, even if they're asymptomatic, they are sick and infectious. Dude, by definition, asymptomatic people are not sick. They may be infectious, but they are not sick. Let's not redefine words here for the purposes of trying to win internet arguments. In terms of rationale, I don't see why not. Omicrom is so pervasive that if people don't catch it in the hospital from an asymptomatic worker, then they are going to catch it from all the other people in the hospital who are there for other reasons but are asymptomatic omicron carriers themselves. This is not even discussing that incredibly high chance they will get it from just operating in society. UK is reporting 50% of people with cold symptoms actually have omicron. So why would you hobble the healthcare system intentionally by having asymptomatic workers stay at home?
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Dec 25, 2021 20:55
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enki42 posted:By the time someone is in an emergency room, you don't need to triage on super rough categorization like that, because you have the patient right in front of you. Unvaccinated people have worse outcomes in general, but there's absolutely unvaccinated people who respond well to treatment. Lol you've never been in an er where the bay is full and you have 3 coding patients and only 6 people. Trust me triage happens everywhere in times of crisis. You absolutely see it late at night when small things come in or a simple laceration needing stiches sits for 5 hours while the doc deals with the higher acuity patients that come in. The fact is, triage is literally what happens in an Ed, it happens on the squad. And all hospitals are mandated to have disaster plans which one of the requirements is what happens in a catastrophic situation or crisis and how to regulate care and staff. Including mci triage protocols to maximize the amount of people saved.
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Dec 25, 2021 21:07
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Sidenote you already are seeing a push that anyone dni is made comfort care and removed from ICU to a lower level floor when they reach a state of being unable to even be stable on maxed out bipap and CPAP. Precisely because those patients are taking up resources and the outcome is 99.999% the same. Patient desats to the 70s on the bipap, and rapidly will decomp down and suffer respiratory failure from there. If someone makes themselves dni, and they are already at that point where bipap isn't enough, there isn't another option. And ecmo isn't one because long use of bipap is actually SUPER loving bad for you, let alone how bad the lung damage is from the bacterial super pneumonia that you got with covid. And if the patient hits the hypoxic Delirium and rips the mask off at that level, many times they just go rapidly at that point before the staff can get in there. It's something I've seen and had to deal with more then I'd like to count 
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Dec 25, 2021 21:12
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fosborb posted:we could use credit scores! Ems was triaging in the field, mainly with cardiac arrests though or signs of arrest. This mainly involved the sheer lack of squads and assistance, then resources at the hospitals. As it is a patient that is asystole and unwitnessed with no CPR has a horrible outcome in the first place, let alone when it's two people that may not even be from NYC and here as FEMA relief squads consisting of a medic and a goddamn unlicensed evoc ambulance driver that literally can't provide care (I know a company that sent squads out like this due to staffing). The records from that time are uh almost all universally poo poo because of how bad things were, hospital and ems wise, so we may never know the true extant of some of it. Alot of times though it is just a call to medical control to get confirmation to stop measures, and it's something a medic has the ability to do if a situation is obviously futile due to length of time down, injuries, signs of successful overdose, and well a hospice patient that said I'm done and took all his morphine to pass peacefully (good for you man it shouldn't be so hard to die with dignity  ) or the obvious uh the heads 10 feet from the body.It really can't be expressed enough, and their needs to be actual investigative reporting or documentary with people.that we're front and center in NYC, cause just the friends I have that were there the things they saw were jaw dropping
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Dec 25, 2021 21:21
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Wang Commander posted:Triage needs to prioritize bed-days. An old person who will die ASAP is a better bet than an anti vaxx young person who will survive perhaps after months on the vent, disabled to the point they can't contribute to the battle against the virus or future military efforts. Future military efforts? What?
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Dec 25, 2021 22:09
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HonorableTB posted:Future military efforts? What? If they aren't useful to the state/Capital as a soldier or worker or in pandemic control efforts, why waste resources in an existential struggle with Covid with climate wars, Russia, and China on the to do list?
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Dec 25, 2021 22:18
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HonorableTB posted:Future military efforts? What? He's a troll and that's an obvious poo poo post is what that is.
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Dec 25, 2021 22:33
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Wang Commander posted:If they aren't useful to the state/Capital as a soldier or worker or in pandemic control efforts, why waste resources in an existential struggle with Covid with climate wars, Russia, and China on the to do list? Why are you like this
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Dec 25, 2021 22:39
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Tiny Timbs posted:Why are you like this If you believe in America rn you need to be pursuing maximum strength, we've got a lot of huge challenges coming up
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Dec 25, 2021 22:41
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Tiny Timbs posted:Why are you like this There is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement if you are a leftist.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:00
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MikeC posted:Dude, by definition, asymptomatic people are not sick. They may be infectious, but they are not sick. Let's not redefine words here for the purposes of trying to win internet arguments. In terms of rationale, I don't see why not. Omicrom is so pervasive that if people don't catch it in the hospital from an asymptomatic worker, then they are going to catch it from all the other people in the hospital who are there for other reasons but are asymptomatic omicron carriers themselves. This is not even discussing that incredibly high chance they will get it from just operating in society. UK is reporting 50% of people with cold symptoms actually have omicron. Because they're infectious and will get other people sick who will then not be asymptomatic and the system will be hobbled even more. Not to mention all the patients that will get infected. And yes, if you have a virus replicating inside you, you're sick. Also worth mentioning that, depending on the symptoms you exhibit, you could still be classified as asymptomatic.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:04
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It's also because hospitals are complaining that staff are taking the full time off to recover, and more likely using a potential covid exposure to get a mental health day that can't be used against them point wise to be fired. Really alot of people doing the latter because poo poo sucks. And management hates it because they can't fire people or yell at them because covid
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Dec 25, 2021 23:14
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Wang Commander posted:If you believe in America rn you need to be pursuing maximum strength, we've got a lot of huge challenges coming up drat some vintage 'keep your powder dry
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Dec 25, 2021 23:21
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Wang Commander posted:If you believe in America rn you need to be pursuing maximum strength, we've got a lot of huge challenges coming up We have a lot of huge challenges now and are absolutely eating poo poo. If your plan is to weed out the weakest Americans until America is in fighting shape, you're gonna be trimming the fat for a long time before you find whatever muscle America has left. Barry Foster posted:There is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement if you are a leftist. The leftist case for fighting wars against Russia and China and finding victory by killing the weakest of our own country first.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:25
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MikeC posted:So why would you hobble the healthcare system intentionally by having asymptomatic workers stay at home? What most people are objecting to is the CDC offering guidelines for symptomatic healthcare personnel (HCP) to return to work early as a contingency plan for staff shortages: quote:Allowing HCP with SARS-CoV-2 infection who are well enough and willing to work to return to work as follows: There are more caveats and recommendations, but if I were a healthcare worker, I wouldn't be thrilled at being called back into work while still symptomatic. And note this section comes before the "crisis" part so these are not presented as a last resort.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:27
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Gripweed posted:We have a lot of huge challenges now and are absolutely eating poo poo. If your plan is to weed out the weakest Americans until America is in fighting shape, you're gonna be trimming the fat for a long time before you find whatever muscle America has left. Right now we're trimming nurses to preserve seditionists, I'm not really sure how that helps anything.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:27
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eXXon posted:What most people are objecting to is the CDC offering guidelines for symptomatic healthcare personnel (HCP) to return to work early as a contingency plan for staff shortages: Pretty easy to just fall over dead seriously exerting yourself with any virus
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Dec 25, 2021 23:28
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Barry Foster posted:There is absolutely nothing controversial about that statement if you are a leftist. lol
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Dec 25, 2021 23:28
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Personally I think healthcare workers should be making triage decisions based on health factors, not political factors. But then again, I'm not the kind of jackass who spends Christmas Day calling for the categorical denial of healthcare to people who engage in risky behavior.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:34
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Gripweed posted:The leftist case for fighting wars against Russia and China and finding victory by killing the weakest of our own country first. Unless I have fallen for the mother of all poes it seems pretty clear that that was sarcastic as gently caress (on his part)
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Dec 25, 2021 23:36
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Barry Foster posted:Unless I have fallen for the mother of all poes it seems pretty clear that that was sarcastic as gently caress (on his part) We need to be prepared for war against Russia and China is an idea taken seriously by serious people in the media and foreign policy circles, and we need to let the unvaccinated die for the good of the country seems to be an idea taken seriously by people in this thread. So I see no reason to assume it was sarcasm.
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Dec 25, 2021 23:41
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Main Paineframe posted:Personally I think healthcare workers should be making triage decisions based on health factors, not political factors. But then again, I'm not the kind of jackass who spends Christmas Day calling for the categorical denial of healthcare to people who engage in risky behavior.
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Dec 26, 2021 00:06
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SpartanIvy posted:Do you think vaccination status is not a health factor? It’s the most important health factor, frankly.
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Dec 26, 2021 00:16
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Why does anyone think that vaccination status is something that the actual medical workers on the ground will have easy access to? Or how any system of checking for vaccination status (lol its just a card, there is no database) would do anything other than increase the workload and create a more hostile environment, which is already overloaded and fostering burnout? Or if a system was implemented are you, yourself okay with having emergecy care for you, yourself, be delayed as the medical staff confirms your vaccination status? If you, yourself have no proof of your vaccination status or the overworked staff cannot find your vaccination status, will you accept not receiving any medical care? There always ends up being some "if xxx people are just refused medical care, then this is somehow a good thing!" going around. Its always wrong. I do not just mean morally and ethnically, I mean it is also wrong in that it is a dumb loving policy idea that any possible, I repeat, any possible method of implementation will absolutely cause forseen problems, unforseen problems, and have actually no upside.
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Dec 26, 2021 00:19
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Main Paineframe posted:Personally I think healthcare workers should be making triage decisions based on health factors, not political factors. But then again, I'm not the kind of jackass who spends Christmas Day calling for the categorical denial of healthcare to people who engage in risky behavior. Cool maybe you can tell that to the family of someone who died from a heart attack while waiting for a bed to open up. The unvaccinated are selfish fucks who prefer to risk murdering the elderly or weak immune because they cant get enough Applebees. There's also countless stories of them spitting on nurses too. Maybe your whole family is like this? Beats me why you're defending this poo poo.
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Dec 26, 2021 00:20
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Reverend Dr posted:Why does anyone think that vaccination status is something that the actual medical workers on the ground will have easy access to? They loving tell you dude, like literally I've had people screaming at me that covids fake and that if we give him that poison we call a vaccine they will kill us
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Dec 26, 2021 00:44
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https://nypost.com/2021/12/21/biden-sending-covid-test-sites-1k-troops-to-ease-nyc-lines/ I've been reading how the Feds dispatched 1,000 military members to hospitals to help out overwhelmed US hospitals, which is good, but... why only 1,000? Why not a lot more than that?
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Dec 26, 2021 01:10
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Reverend Dr posted:Why does anyone think that vaccination status is something that the actual medical workers on the ground will have easy access to? Reverend Dr posted:Or how any system of checking for vaccination status (lol its just a card, there is no database) would do anything other than increase the workload and create a more hostile environment, which is already overloaded and fostering burnout? Reverend Dr posted:Or if a system was implemented are you, yourself okay with having emergecy care for you, yourself, be delayed as the medical staff confirms your vaccination status? If you, yourself have no proof of your vaccination status or the overworked staff cannot find your vaccination status, will you accept not receiving any medical care? Reverend Dr posted:There always ends up being some "if xxx people are just refused medical care, then this is somehow a good thing!" going around. Its always wrong. I do not just mean morally and ethnically, I mean it is also wrong in that it is a dumb loving policy idea that any possible, I repeat, any possible method of implementation will absolutely cause forseen problems, unforseen problems, and have actually no upside.
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Dec 26, 2021 01:26
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https://twitter.com/larmbrust/status/1474223059842256899?t=T1NVgSzcMqMqpSn_m-IyMQ&s=19 God this country is so hosed Lmao
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Dec 26, 2021 01:59
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