|
PT6A posted:Considering there were people who missed the reason Niobe is old I think you can be forgiven. Between this getting weirdly hyped by filmmaker and everyone saying spider man was good (when it was literally 8 year old kid with action figures smashing them together the movie) I’d say film in the mainstream is royally hosed. On the other hand, don’t look up is my second favorite movie of the year (behind Dune).
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 10:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 02:46 |
|
|
Sardikar posted:Saw it today, liked it more than 2 and 3 but not as much as the first. Any variation of liking all of them is correct. They are great movies. Fight me after you fight Sardikar.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 10:50
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:it doesn't matter where you saw it. you were looking at your phone there was a minute and a hlf segment about how much better movies are at a cinema without the distractions of your goddamn millennial phones. ridley scort was there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 11:18
|
|
|
I really dug this. Even the action seemed pretty solid to me (with the exception of the final 'swarm' sequence which was just a bit of a visual mess with a couple of excellent little moments in it) which might have been due to severely lowered expectations after I flicked through this thread earlier today. The script probably could've done with another pass just to tidy up some of the pacing and I hated a few of the effects (that 90s soap opera slow-motion effect is hideous) but I thought this was not only the most interesting/enjoyable of the sequels but retroactively added some weight to certain portions of them I felt lacked it originally. The first remains lightning in a bottle to some degree and this is a fair way off it in terms of quality but it convinced me that expanding on this world can actually be a worthwhile exercise.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 12:04
|
|
|
An anthology Matrix TV show is something I'd want more than more movies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 12:12
|
|
|
All the Smith-motivation chat made me realize his role is a bit half baked. His reason for being there is glossed over; he says that "The Analyst forged our bond into a chain" and sort of leaves it at that. His stated motivations are basically to gently caress around with The Analyst; "I have dreams. Well, actually mostly violent revenge fantasies" and "all you have to do is stay out of the matrix and leave the good doctor to me." That's certainly a motivation but not a very satisfying one after Smith in the original trilogy. Then you get him stopping just short of saying "you haven't seen the last of me" while cackling maniacally in the big fight sequence. It all felt a little bit like teasing the (inevitable?  ) sequels, which is one of those things that didn't used to happen with big budget movies. WE USED TO HAVE CLASS.This is all a little aside from the performance. I love Jon Groff and think he did a great job here. SCheeseman posted:An anthology Matrix TV show is something I'd want more than more movies. We just got Star Wars Visions, so the idea is almost certainly kicking around the studio. I'm not sure if a Matrix fight scene animated by Studio Trigger would be incredible, incomprehensible, or just like everything else they've ever done, but I'm pretty sure I want to see it. EDIT: Oh you might've meant a live action one. Whatever, I still want Studio Trigger to do The Matrix. Boxman fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Dec 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 13:13
|
|
|
Boxman posted:This is all a little aside from the performance. I love Jon Groff and think he did a great job here. It felt like some doing a deliberately terrible Weaving impression, and if that was the brief (and I can totally believe it was) then he nailed it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 13:18
|
|
|
after seeing this with the sense8 crew there i really do hope we get matrix tv netflix hbo show
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 14:00
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Also if you think lana didn’t care about the matrix you’re wrong. She just cares about the love story more than anything else. Which I’m fine with. What is the love story?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:It felt like some doing a deliberately terrible Weaving impression, and if that was the brief (and I can totally believe it was) then he nailed it. I didn't get that at all, where do you see Weaving in that performance? Not his cadence, mannerisms, even the dialogue he's delivering feel very distinct from Weaving's Smith unless he's literally quoting him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
VROOM VROOM posted:Thinking about how they set up a beautiful super deluxe dojo scene 2.0 and then Neo refuses to fight and Morpheus 2 just pummels him half to death until he force blasts him I was really hoping for Morpheus 2 to do the patented jump knee drop while sarcastically pointing up how stupid this move was and how it never works
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 14:54
|
|
|
I'd call myself a big Matrix fan who actively disliked both 2 and 3, and I really think that this was the best possible Matrix 4 and I'm glad it got made. I enjoyed it, especially the opening, and the meta arguments about how creatively bankrupt it would be to do a Matrix sequel, and characters openly voicing everything that the Matrix franchise means to them. The action didn't reach previous highs and it dragged some in the second half, but I would go so far as to call this a good movie that I bet I'll watch again at some point. I actually feel that 4s existence partially excuses 2 and 3, even though only Lana and WB wanted it made.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
I want a matrix 5 but it's gotta be 90% henwick doing sick rear end flips.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
Was it just me or were the matrix scenes not very green? They seemed super orange, which I took to be a little commentary of the popular film gamma settings of the past twenty years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 16:11
|
|
|
External Organs posted:Was it just me or were the matrix scenes not very green? They seemed super orange, which I took to be a little commentary of the popular film gamma settings of the past twenty years. Without looking it up, I think it matches the color palette of the sunrise at the very end of revolutions as an indication this was a new / better matrix? Then again this doesn’t take into account all the bullshit that happened in the 60 years from then to now but given the analyst’s aesthetics and the vribrancy of blue and red throughout I think it’s just a conscious style choice made for this movie
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
Open-ended question: What do we think is the significance/impact of 'Morpheus' being a Morpheus and Smith amalgam? It seems to follow along with an idea which also has some presence in the nu-Smith character, and which was discussed earlier in this thread, which is that Smith was always a kind of revolutionary character. Smith was always pursuing some kind of freedom. So maybe, and here I'm kind of speculating, Morpheus-Smith is gamedev Neo creating a program who isn't just "searching for Neo" but rather representing his general drive towards liberation. Thematically, I guess, this returns to the idea that Morpheus was never totally right, but was at least moving towards an idea of authentic liberation somewhere between himself and Smith.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
the matrix AI guys or whatever are much more emotional than the real people who seem to just be going through the motions, especially Keanu, but we can say that's on purpose
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 16:38
|
|
|
mistermojo posted:the matrix AI guys or whatever are much more emotional than the real people who seem to just be going through the motions, especially Keanu, but we can say that's on purpose 'Contstant intense emotional stimulation to keep people supplicant and pliable' is definitely an idea the movie runs with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 16:40
|
|
|
Seemlar posted:Smith wants to stay free and wants revenge against the Analyst for his decades of imprisonment in the new Matrix. He tells Neo to stay out of the Matrix and to not go after Trinity because the Analyst knows he'll be coming and Smith (correctly) says Neo would lose that confrontation. Neo losing would result in him being returned to captivity and since they repeatedly mention the two of them have a bond etc that would result in Smith being dragged back as well. I kinda wonder what would happen if they did for Smith what they did for the new Morpheus (who was originally a Smith anyway) and actually set him free from the Matrix and brought him into the real world. I know this happened before with Bane but Smith seems more chill now. Then again he'd probably find Io another form of prison and reignite the war against the machines If it was Hugo Weaving however I would love seeing him tripping balls like new Morpheus did after taking the red pill.Neo Rasa posted:Imagine the action in Zack Snyder's Matrix I've only seen a couple of his movies so I can't share an informed opinion of his filmography but 300 was and still is an awesome film imo. I know everything was essentially storyboarded for him via the graphic novel but I think it's great regardless. It's a shame the sequels to both that and Sin City were so disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
I enjoyed the film but count me as a definite “no” on any other sequels. Half of the film is a meditation on how this movie doesn’t need to exist, that to bring it back meant painfully imprisoning it’s beloved characters for years. And on a more basic level, we’re far past the limits of what the premise can offer : a movie about how the whole world is a simulation only has one place to go (revealing that to everyone) and everything else is wheel spinning
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 18:19
|
|
|
I feel like there's several plot threads that could have been worked out into a good movie but they were all jammed together. Neo being repurposed into an unfulfilled game designer who keeps the populace of the Matrix busy in their little samsara treadmills while in his own little samsara treadmill is interesting. His indefinitely-deferred new project is a plausible continuation of where Revolutions left off. Being able to recast everybody while having their original appearance in flashbacks and in reflective surfaces was interesting. It would have been a great way to keep the original cast while letting younger actors do the heavy lifting in stunt scenes. Having Hugo Weaving/Jon Groff play Smith as Tom's boss would have been a great twist on a great villain. Neil Patrick Harris as The Analyst was a more compelling villain than The Architect, although his time gimmick was lame and disconnected from his character. Random people defending the Matrix because they don't want to escape was an interesting idea that went nowhere and seemed to say nothing. As I type this out, all the interesting ideas were in the first third.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
External Organs posted:Was it just me or were the matrix scenes not very green? They seemed super orange, which I took to be a little commentary of the popular film gamma settings of the past twenty years. There's actually a whole debate about the color timing of the matrix. Tl:dr; the first matrix wasn't THAT green in theaters. It somehow got turned extra green during the VHS / DVD conversions, and then everyone got used to it. So much so that, when they made the sequels years later, they made the colors match the DVDs rather than the original matrix film. So now nobody knows how green it's really supposed to be
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 19:41
|
|
|
Polo-Rican posted:So now nobody knows how green it's really supposed to be Just like chicken inside the matrix. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Neil Patrick Harris as The Analyst was a more compelling villain than The Architect, although his time gimmick was lame and disconnected from his character. That reminds me, I kept expecting a reveal that The Analyst was a human working with the machines. Like, we're told that no matter who the people are, there are people interested in control and people interested in freedom. We see lots of synths invested in the cause of freedom, but presumably there would be humans invested in control. Obviously AIs are perfectly capable of having a sense of humor and relating to humanity (the Oracle), but the Analyst's joy in doing his job seemed very...well, human.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:it doesn't matter where you saw it. you were looking at your phone You watched it on your phone 
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 20:17
|
|
|
Polo-Rican posted:There's actually a whole debate about the color timing of the matrix. Tl:dr; the first matrix wasn't THAT green in theaters. It somehow got turned extra green during the VHS / DVD conversions, and then everyone got used to it. So much so that, when they made the sequels years later, they made the colors match the DVDs rather than the original matrix film. So now nobody knows how green it's really supposed to be IIRC there's an ancient For Your Consideration screener that has the original theatrical colors, and there's a fan restoration floating around based on those colors. e: and here are some screenshots from a fan-scanned 35mm print. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Dec 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 20:56
|
|
|
Re: quality seeming to fall off after Neo unplugs and the movie becoming the thing it was critiquing, it's probably pertinent that one of the people breaking Neo out is named Bugs? I think the name lets her function as a stand-in for Warner Bros in the same way that people will refer to Disney as "the Mouse". So even though Bugs seems to interrupt the reboot brainstorm session at the game company, it's actually a continuation: she's an incarnation (or just a representative) of corporate coming down to get the reboot rolling. Kind of funny to use a character who finds a sense of identity in nostalgia (naming herself after a childhood cartoon) as the emblem of the company determined to make use of nostalgia to draw in marks, but I guess that's basically how it works with Disney superfans working at Disney. Naming yourself after characters you like is also a pretty common feature of modern online trans spaces, so Bugs makes sense from that angle too -- I've really been enjoying the thought of nu-Morpheus as an enthusiastic Morpheus kinnie, he's very cute. Though the way he's initially superimposed upon Agent Smith's role in og-Matrix makes me suspect nu-Morpheus overlaps with Thomas Anderson's boss (who is also Smith) in the same way Bugs overlaps with corporate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 21:27
|
|
|
This is twice now that Wachowski has used a Matrix film to say "you must perform a suicidally impossible heist" and then in the next scene the heist has happened and the film just moves on. That's Dan Harmon scale contempt for the concept.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:This is twice now that Wachowski has used a Matrix film to say "you must perform a suicidally impossible heist" and then in the next scene the heist has happened and the film just moves on. Yes…there’s the bizarre “let’s overlay Trinity on Bugs” thing when they’re unjacking her and it’s set up as this bug dangerous problem and…goes off without a hitch and has no lasting consequences for either character. I understand that it’s simply narrative convention for plans to have to go wrong in some way in movies, but it’s also not compelling to watch something happen exactly as described for no overall purpose.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:00
|
|
|
LionArcher posted:On the other hand, don’t look up is my second favorite movie of the year (behind Dune). Don't Look Up is the most offensively inoffensive movie I've seen since... oh, I don't know... Wag the Dog or Primary Colors maybe. It entertained me, and I hate myself for that fact.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:07
|
|
|
Dune was absolutely sublime in every way though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:08
|
|
|
so does the part where neo and trinity are shown being rebuilt by the machines and the talk about their souce code mean they are more machine than human?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:09
|
|
|
Booty Pageant posted:so does the part where neo and trinity are shown being rebuilt by the machines and the talk about their souce code mean they are more machine than human? Never been as much a difference as we all pretend
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:11
|
|
|
Boxman posted:That reminds me, I kept expecting a reveal that The Analyst was a human working with the machines. Like, we're told that no matter who the people are, there are people interested in control and people interested in freedom. We see lots of synths invested in the cause of freedom, but presumably there would be humans invested in control. Obviously AIs are perfectly capable of having a sense of humor and relating to humanity (the Oracle), but the Analyst's joy in doing his job seemed very...well, human. Yeah
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:21
|
|
|
Didn't Matrix Online play with that concept of humans working with machines? Like, Cypherites or something?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
Polo-Rican posted:There's actually a whole debate about the color timing of the matrix. Tl:dr; the first matrix wasn't THAT green in theaters. It somehow got turned extra green during the VHS / DVD conversions, and then everyone got used to it. So much so that, when they made the sequels years later, they made the colors match the DVDs rather than the original matrix film. So now nobody knows how green it's really supposed to be Linguica fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Dec 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 22:46
|
|
|
MJeff posted:Didn't Matrix Online play with that concept of humans working with machines? Like, Cypherites or something?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 23:27
|
|
|
Mike N Eich posted:Yes…there’s the bizarre “let’s overlay Trinity on Bugs” thing when they’re unjacking her and it’s set up as this bug dangerous problem and…goes off without a hitch and has no lasting consequences for either character. I understand that it’s simply narrative convention for plans to have to go wrong in some way in movies, but it’s also not compelling to watch something happen exactly as described for no overall purpose. in another subtle allusion to trans culture theyre doing the speedrunner thing where you swap a zelda cartridge for a mario cartridge while its still loaded in memory
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2021 23:27
|
|
|
Kinda wish the first half of the film had been the whole film to be honest. Including the intro sequence being cut or changed in some way to remove Bugs/Morpheus. An entire film playing with the concept of "is the Matrix actually real" right up until everything goes mental at the end would have been so much better. The first half could have been fleshed out a lot more too to stretch out the ambiguity, including more 4th wall breaking meta poo poo to keep us guessing. We could have seen a lot more of the things that "influenced" Anderson seeing as we only really see him go to a coffee shop or Ramen place. Like we could have seen his route home subtly taking him through familiar but not quite the same environments from the first films, etc. Or A DVD shelf full of kung fu films or the animatrix or whatever. Maybe some less fanservicey things too like the blue pills being totally different in design, but coming from a blue labelled box or some such. As it is it just feels like good idea poorly executed by someone who wasn't committed enough to it to pull it off. That or the WB suits shat on the idea for the more mindless action which we got in the second half.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2021 00:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 02:46 |
|
|
I think Inception pretty much cleared the bank out of 'insane reality-within-a-reality action sequences'. Also Neo forgot that his powers work in the real world as well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2021 00:26
|
|