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Kin posted:That or the WB suits shat on the idea for the more mindless action which we got in the second half. This is the plot of the movie, more or less
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Dec 27, 2021 00:31
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https://twitter.com/magicaInegro/status/1475129412219772931 Cute detail
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Dec 27, 2021 00:33
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Alchenar posted:This is twice now that Wachowski has used a Matrix film to say "you must perform a suicidally impossible heist" and then in the next scene the heist has happened and the film just moves on. In Reloaded, parts of it go off without a hitch but the other half fails and that's the whole reason why Trinity goes in and gets killed. Is there another heist I'm forgetting?
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Dec 27, 2021 01:25
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Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Frame of Mind" is a better Matrix 4.
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Dec 27, 2021 01:28
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This was decent but extremely flawed. Better then Reloaded which was a mess with some cool ideas and fantastic action and way better then Revolutions which was hot garbage. The first half was much stronger then the second, but Smith felt like a huge waste and the action was mediocre to boring. I think I like it overall still but it doesn’t hold a candle to the original
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Dec 27, 2021 03:24
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I really wish I could have played "The Matrix: Online". Was it any good? Sounds very immersive.Kin posted:Kinda wish the first half of the film had been the whole film to be honest. I agree with much of this. I loved the "was it really just all in his head?" concept.
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Dec 27, 2021 03:24
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punk rebel ecks posted:I really wish I could have played "The Matrix: Online". Was it any good? Sounds very immersive. It was eh. Like it had some cool ideas but none of them got to play out. The best remaining part was how it ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfeGPilWZp0
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Dec 27, 2021 03:33
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Shiroc posted:In Reloaded, parts of it go off without a hitch but the other half fails and that's the whole reason why Trinity goes in and gets killed. Is there another heist I'm forgetting? Getting Morpheus out in the original.
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Dec 27, 2021 04:10
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ah yes, that one certainly went off without a hitch
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Dec 27, 2021 04:20
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And skipped past so hard that I didn't remember it at all.
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Dec 27, 2021 04:58
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the op is referring to the motif of describing the plan while its happening, which also felt familiar to me, but mistook the ending for each plan as you now mention it was a very familiar call-back to the 3 captains 3 missions meeting in whichever previous film
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Dec 27, 2021 05:30
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Haha, gently caress, they really did it. They went fully “apolitical” - and consequently, accidentally, doubled down on the right-wing version of the red pill.
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Dec 27, 2021 05:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Haha, gently caress, they really did it. Ah S.M.G. I have been expecting this moment. Please elaborate. As you provide insight and illuminate this grey world pay no heed to what I am doing. Awaken us from this slumber.
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Dec 27, 2021 05:51
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This movie loving sucks Edit: I'm about a half hour in
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Dec 27, 2021 05:54
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Gatts posted:Ah S.M.G. I have been expecting this moment. Please elaborate. As you provide insight and illuminate this grey world pay no heed to what I am doing. Famous right wing red piller Lana Wachowski after all.
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Dec 27, 2021 06:14
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I liked how The Merovingian pretty much turned into a French Spamton G. Spamton
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Dec 27, 2021 06:14
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Idle thought. The way The modal was structured as the opening to the first Matrix movie. What're the odds that was written that way, in some part at least, specifically so they could get Agents into the trailer? 
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Dec 27, 2021 06:22
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Just got done watching Resurrections, easily my least favorite of the sequels. I'll step up to bat for Reloaded and Revolutions, I re-watched the whole trilogy in 4K recently and I've definitely come around on the sequels and can appreciate them for what they are. I thought the evolution of Smith from an agent of systemic control to an agent of chaos masquerading as its own different form of control was great, I thought the resolution of the war with the machines and humanity calling a truce was great, the action was wild, the car chase in Reloaded is awesome, the chateau fight is the best fight in the entire series, the Merovingian is a hoot, developing AI programs into overtly sentient beings that have their own motivations and are characters in their own right was great (something the first movie hinted at, but the sequels really brought to the forefront); all around while the second and third movies aren't as good as the first one by a long shot, I'm glad they exist and I enjoyed them on a rewatch. This new one.... I've got a lot of questions and they aren't philosophical ones. I might as well spoiler-block this whole bit. First, what I liked: having a passage of time was neat, having the machines and humanity kind of co-exist was neat, some of the action was neat (mostly any time a car exploded or got flipped or wrecked looked pretty good). Having Sati come back was neat, as was having Niobe come back as an old person, and the Merovingian as a crazy hobo. Neil Patrick Harris as a "new" Architect and his NuMatrix was pretty novel; the idea that he gets more electrical juice out of people when they suffer more emotional trauma is one hell of a funny commentary about how lovely the world has become and how everything sucks. Now, the stuff I didn't like or had me scratching my head, and I can't tell if some of these things were conscious choices on the filmmakers' part (and if they were, what their thought process was): - Morpheus was a waste. He's a construct within a video game written by Neo, but becomes "real" (I think?) by transferring himself out of the "game" reality and into the "Matrix" reality, who can then take physical form in the "real" reality via magnetic marbles or whatever. Like, a genuinely human-created artificial construct developing consciousness and transcending reality is a neat character idea, but having him "be" Morpheus was nonsensical. He didn't act like Morpheus, he didn't have Morpheus' motivations from the first three movies, there's no link between him and the "real" Morpheus that existed in the first three movies other than his name. He should have just been his own character. - It never felt like Neo had any agency, it felt like he was taken along for the ride so he could have exposition dumps or plot revelations thrown at him or block bullets sometimes. He felt like a non-character, it felt like he just moved from point to point so other characters could talk around him or do things. - Bringing back "Smith" was dumb. He was a rogue actor in the two sequels and he needed to be purged so he didn't destabilize the whole system and destroy both the machines and humanity. Resurrections doesn't even bother explaining how he survived getting purged, let alone why his personality is different. Like Morpheus, he's essentially a totally different character with the same name, and he either should have been treated like a different character or been omitted completely. - I liked the ending to the third movie, the idea that the Machines and humanity call a truce and work together to salvage everything and create a world where there's an "optional" Matrix that people can choose to be jacked into but also maybe having the Machines help humanity fix the real world so the sun can come out and the real world isn't a desolate wasteland and the machines can run on solar power again and not have to rely on enslaving humanity. Yeah it's an idealized fantasy ending but it's the one the third movie pointed to and this sequel essentially undoes all of it without really doing a good job of narratively filling in why everything destabilized and why humanity is back on the run from the machines in the "real world" while everyone else is enslaved again. Niobe tries to pay lip service to Neo's sacrifice being meaningful but what we're shown is in direct contrast to what she says. The Force Awakens had a similar problem - Return of the Jedi ends with this uplifting, optimistic (unrealistic) fairy tale ending that Evil was permanently defeated and the characters go on to live in peace and happiness forever, and the sequel trilogy basically says "nah, the previous conflict didn't solve anything". - As someone mentioned on the previous page, the "slow mo" 90s soap opera effect was really, really awful. It made the whole movie seem like a cheap direct-to-video sequel. All around the whole thing felt cheap, really - none of the scope, action, or effects even came close to the original movie, let alone the sequels which were able to ramp up the budget and the scale and culminate in a knock down drag out brawl between human mechs and robot squids. - the meta-references were awful, but at least the movie front-loaded itself with them. The whole first third of the movie was really, *really* in your face meta stuff that nearly made me switch off the movie because it was so off-putting. On top of that, it ultimately didn't make sense narratively because the meta-references included things Neo didn't personally see or know about over the course of the original movies, so how could he have known about them to include in his "meta" video game that was a disguised re-telling of his prior life? For that matter, how did the other characters like Bugs and Morpheus have access to the literal identical camera angle shot for shot footage from the first movies? Was that ripped from Neo's "video game"? It was like the shittiest form of trying to have its cake and eat it too by nostalgia-baiting about what people liked in the original movies while simultaneously criticizing the practice. I dunno. It feels like there were ideas for a neat Matrix sequel strewn around in this mess and none were given the chance to flourish or unify into something worthwhile. Give me the other sequels any day of the week.
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Dec 27, 2021 06:45
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Cypher is rightfully mocked by The Matrix for attempting to make a deal with the enemy, and yet Revolutions ends with exactly that. The conversation between the Oracle and Architect states directly that the peace will not last. Resurrections doesn't undo the ending of Revolutions, it ties up the massive loose end it left hanging. It even brings everything full circle, back to the end of the Matrix/The Matrix. "We're not here to negotiate anything."
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Dec 27, 2021 07:07
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Cypher was wrong because he was willing to stab humanity in the back to continue its enslavement so he could live in ignorance. Revolutions gives no indication that the machines planned to stab humanity in the back after their “truce” when Neo sacrificed himself (otherwise his sacrifice would have been a waste).
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Dec 27, 2021 07:13
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This might be a stupid observation, but if they wanted to portray therapy as bad and therapists as monsters, they probably would have called NPH's character The Therapist instead of The Analyst.
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Dec 27, 2021 07:24
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https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/1475247086685736965
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Dec 27, 2021 07:27
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Xenomrph posted:Cypher was wrong because he was willing to stab humanity in the back to continue its enslavement so he could live in ignorance. Revolutions gives no indication that the machines planned to stab humanity in the back after their “truce” when Neo sacrificed himself (otherwise his sacrifice would have been a waste). They literally end it on a conversation that features this: Architect: Just how long do you think this peace is going to last? Oracle: As long as it can. Like there is no indication it is Eternal Peace And Happiness Forever. Resurrection does not actually invalidate that. Neo's sacrifice brought about a better world, but there were still consequences for what happened and that includes the machines turning upon themselves. There's no longer a real meaningful difference between humans and machines now for both good and ill. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 07:37
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Gatts posted:Ah S.M.G. I have been expecting this moment. Please elaborate. There’s not much to the movie to elaborate on. They straight-up do ‘the NPC meme’, multiple jokes about ‘triggering’, etc., while eliminating any trace of socioeconomics. That’s the whole film. The number of human characters ostensibly victimized by the poorly-defined ‘system’ could be counted on one hand, with fingers to spare.
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Dec 27, 2021 07:42
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ImpAtom posted:They literally end it on a conversation that features this: But Resurrections shows us there still is a difference - evidently the machines turned on each other and in the aftermath they (somehow) re-subjugated humanity and put everyone back in The Matrix while a small subset of humanity exist in hiding in the “real world”, fighting the Matrix. Despite Resurrections showing “good” AIs working with the humans, they’re all exiles or outcasts risking their lives to do so. The machines are very much still The Bad Guys.
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Dec 27, 2021 07:49
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Xenomrph posted:But Resurrections shows us there still is a difference - evidently the machines turned on each other and in the aftermath they (somehow) re-subjugated humanity and put everyone back in The Matrix while a small subset of humanity exist in hiding in the “real world”, fighting the Matrix. Despite Resurrections showing “good” AIs working with the humans, they’re all exiles or outcasts risking their lives to do so. The machines are very much still The Bad Guys. I think it might be the case that far fewer humans are actually plugged in, but, because restrictions breed creativity, those few actually generate as much or more power than before for the faction of machines that wants to maintain imprisonment? I vaguely remember there also being some dialogue that suggests some, maybe most, plugged-in humans are voluntarily interned but I'd have to watch it again or at least dig up a transcript to confirm this.
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Dec 27, 2021 07:53
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Xenomrph posted:But Resurrections shows us there still is a difference - evidently the machines turned on each other and in the aftermath they (somehow) re-subjugated humanity and put everyone back in The Matrix while a small subset of humanity exist in hiding in the “real world”, fighting the Matrix. Despite Resurrections showing “good” AIs working with the humans, they’re all exiles or outcasts risking their lives to do so. The machines are very much still The Bad Guys. You're kind of missing the point. The Machines are not the bad guys. A specific faction of the machines are. There are good machines and bad machines just as there are good people and bad people. The Matrix is not what it once was and Io is shown to be a far more stable place where they even have an artificial sky and are coming along on genuine food and drink. That is what Neo's peace bought. A genuine future for all the races involved. They didn't re-subjugate humanity. Revolutions made it clear that not every human had to leave the Matrix. Just the ones who wanted to. Resurrection said that enough wanted to leave that it caused a power war among the machines but not every human wanted to be free. Some were perfectly glad to take the Cypher route. Yet again it's emphasized that the machines that the Analyst are part of are not bad because they are machines but bad because they are capitalist shitheads. They didn't just attack humans but also their own people and they're desperately trying to cling to a dying power source while Io is shown to be able to keep a combined society functioning. Revolutions intentionally ends on a "this is the first step" rather than "everything is good now." We're shown even among the machines there are differences of opinion and that peace will last 'as long as it lasts.' That is why Resurrection goes out of its way to include a longer-than-normal timeskip to emphasize that no, Neo's sacrifice worked. Even if they are dealing with threats there is a merged society that are able to accomplish great things together that they can't alone. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 07:56
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ImpAtom posted:You're kind of missing the point. The Machines are not the bad guys. A specific faction of the machines are. There are good machines and bad machines just as there are good people and bad people. The Matrix is not what it once was and Io is shown to be a far more stable place where they even have an artificial sky and are coming along on genuine food and drink. That is what Neo's peace bought. A genuine future for all the races involved. I think this is a fair reframing of what happens and lessens a few of my criticisms about the movie (but definitely not all of them). That said if the Analyst is running his own NuMatrix where he essentially intentionally makes humans miserable because that makes more battery juice, does that imply there are other, more benign Matrixes? If there’s a meaningful peace and reintegration between the humans and most of the machines, why are the humans in hiding and the machines allied with the humans framed as outcasts risking their lives? I’m hazy on what the point of resurrecting Trinity and Neo was to begin with, what were they doing for the NuMatrix that was so essential that removing them destabilized the whole thing? Also there may be good machines and bad machines, but the movie doesn’t show any “bad” humans to indicate that it’s a two-way street and that “bad” humans can impact machines. There are *token* good machines so you technically can’t paint them all with the same brush I guess, but the machines still evidently hold all the cards. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 08:08
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Xenomrph posted:I think this is a fair reframing of what happens and lessens a few of my criticisms about the movie (but definitely not all of them). Actually I went and dug up a transcript right after my last post. As best as I can figure: No one ever confirms outright that IO and the new machine government are at war. However, it is said that IO is so well-cloaked because its people decided to get better at hiding from the sentinels rather than fighting them, and it's implied that Zion fell because Morpheus naively assumed the post-Revolutions status quo wouldn't change: quote:NEO: What happened to Zion? Elsewhere, the Analyst says this: quote:However, as long as I managed to keep you close, but not too close, I discovered something incredible. Now, my predecessor loved precision. His Matrix was all fussy facts and equations. He hated the human mind. So he never bothered to realize that you don’t give a poo poo about facts. It’s all about fiction. The only world that matters is the one in here. And you people believe the craziest poo poo. Why? What validates and makes your fictions real? Feelings. Allow me. Kush, here, is one of my handlers. They’re everywhere. Such a pain, cloning Agents over a coppertop. Far more effective just to saturate a population. And, bonus, swarm mode is sick fun. So I'm pretty sure there's only one big new Matrix, but that Matrix can make more power out of less people because it just keeps the previous One (really, the Two) in an endless orbit, which represents a technical innovation over the Architect's allowing a One to rise and then convincing that One to sacrifice themselves over and over. It's still not clear to me whether the Analyst's "Suits" would attack and destroy IO if they knew where it was, but I'm guessing Niobe and co. don't even want to give them the choice.
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Dec 27, 2021 08:23
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thinkin' about how the kiss at the end of Resurrections is a specific recreation (nearly die on roof->blow up helicopter->kiss) of the one they were gonna do in The Matrix that Morpheus interrupted by barging in with prophecy chat
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Dec 27, 2021 08:28
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Ferrinus posted:Actually I went and dug up a transcript right after my last post. As best as I can figure: Still a mega-flawed movie and still my least favorite of the four, for the other reasons I mentioned. But your and ImpAtom’s explanations helped clarify some things for sure.
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Dec 27, 2021 08:45
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am i one of the few or only persons that don't really give a gently caress about the action scenes?? like there was some cool stuff but idgaf that there wasn't some epic kojima esque setpiece except near the end i guess, but i still reckon it's a cool and good movie. i mean we get the dramatisation of the life and times of hideo kojima, in spiderman no way home that ending was hella mgs1/2 and no time to die was just a huge mgs movie... is resurrections a strand type film???
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Dec 27, 2021 09:18
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The guy playing Neo's pathetic, bald, loser-nerd "digital self-image" is Carrie Ann Moss's real life husband. punk rebel ecks posted:I really wish I could have played "The Matrix: Online". Was it any good? Sounds very immersive. https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/The_Matrix_Online You can read the entire MMO storyline on their wiki. While it's debatable how much of this is still canon, several major ideas in the movie were first introduced in the MMO. Like, the machines holding on to Neo's body, and potentially resurrecting him towards the end, was a major ongoing storyline. They even introduced the idea of making fake Morpheuses and the truce partially breaking down after the humans secretly build a better version of Zion. SimonChris fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 09:23
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ImpAtom posted:It was eh. Like it had some cool ideas but none of them got to play out. The best remaining part was how it ended. the agents made everyone disappear up their rear end? rabble rabble posted:the op is referring to the motif of describing the plan while its happening, which also felt familiar to me, but mistook the ending for each plan as you now mention oh that was actually a cinematic parallel of the first lego movie.
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Dec 27, 2021 09:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:There’s not much to the movie to elaborate on. gently caress off
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Dec 27, 2021 10:05
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rabble rabble posted:the op is referring to the motif of describing the plan while its happening, Speed Racer does this basically all the time and it's brilliant
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Dec 27, 2021 10:29
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punk rebel ecks posted:I really wish I could have played "The Matrix: Online". Was it any good? Sounds very immersive. Stop me if you've heard this before- it had great ideas and promise, but half-baked execution because its creator didn't really believe in it.
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Dec 27, 2021 11:59
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ImpAtom posted:It was eh. Like it had some cool ideas but none of them got to play out. The best remaining part was how it ended. Huh, who would re-use old code to make something BLAH BLAH BLAH Also worth noting: Don Davis composed the game's soundtrack. If you enjoy Sim City music with a bit of Matrix mixed in, do not deprive yourself of a listen. The DjZion tracks are especially good. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnkaYsqjS1_40cFnoIeAjXGa1Kfr2TYEx I think my biggest disappointment with the new Matrix movie is the lack of a solidly memorable soundtrack. The only artists I know from the new movie are Jefferson Airplane and some lady who pissed on a fan. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 12:26
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Henceforth all franchise revivals should be shaggy dog stories
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Dec 27, 2021 13:39
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SimonChris posted:While it's debatable how much of this is still canon, Is there being a scam artist named "cryptos" still canon?
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Dec 27, 2021 13:42
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