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Char posted:gently caress it, 4 days is too long. Besides, the authors deserve it.  I still am like halfway through my reread…of episode 1. I started back from the beginning after episode 6 kinda calls the reader out and makes drat sure they know they have all the hints they would need, if they were to solve it. But I’ve done a ton of thinking about it and I have a ton of scribbled notes somewhere and you’ve definitely hit on a lot of my ideas and theories a lot quicker than I did. Are you playing with the updated sprites/backgrounds/voice acting mod? I’m doing it on my reread and it’s seriously really good, it’s kinda nuts the Mangagamer releases don’t include it from the baseline.
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Dec 19, 2021 00:14
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theblackw0lf posted:Do you know, or are you at liberty to discuss, why management couldn’t hold off release for a few days to fix the issues? All I know is it was a business decision made way above my pay grade.
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Dec 19, 2021 02:15
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 Uhh, ok, this episode isn't beating around the bush
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Dec 19, 2021 05:54
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I really need to get a hold of Ciconia, I'm craving that When They Cry vibe
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Dec 19, 2021 06:42
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Ok I got through some glass-shattering scene breaks. Time to post. Thoughts during Umineko EP5 Ooookay... so Kinzo died a lot of time ago. When I said "the island staff is on board", I should've thought about Krauss and Natsuhi, depending on how long ago Kinzo died, they had to be on board as well. The magic is coping with harsh reality, and the storytelling is simply reinforcing this. The gold is real. I wasn't sure about this, but I can take what I saw as confirmation. All of this creates implications on how I should consider explaining previous episodes - especially EP4, Kinzo appeared in front of everyone there. Also, Gaap's final trump card is placing Kinzo's corpse in the boiler, isn't it? Gaap is the alter ego of some other servant. I need to see if next episodes give us another demon or witch. I still can't solve the epitaph, but I think the hints are too on the face this time around. I accept the character length argument. I think there's something metaphoric about the sweetwater and the river, it could be a railway. I'm assuming a railway because "sweetwater fish" has to be another metaphor, for, dunno, salarymen. People living in a strict life pathawy, never meeting the vast ocean. But I don't know where Kinzo spent his happy childhood. I wonder if it's something West-related or he his childhood in the East, Rosa mentions he spent his childhood "far away" - Osaka, but also, dunno, Pechino or Berlin could be considered "far away" from Rokkenjima. So it has to be a place with an old and important railway, whose name is 6 characters long. Those characters can be removed from another word and create an anagram that can refer to the author or the subject of the painting - it could be "Kinzo", some other title referring to him, or the real name of Beatrice. Or "Beato", perhaps - a convenient 5 characters name. There's only one thing that I suspect is involved - the Tokyo Metropolis sign Ange saw in her trip to Rokkenjima. I'm convinced it's the sign Battler saw before getting to the gold, which means, assuming Rosa's idea regarding a 10 days travel could make sense, the sweetfish river could be a railway connecting Tokyo to... where? Hm, considering the worldplay, perhaps that sign is a red herring. I need a clearer hint on where Kinzo spent his childhood. But I think there are more important matters now. The first is how the epitaph, the gold, the title, the ritual killings... they're supposedly meaningless to Beatrice, as Virgilia states. They are means to an end which involves Battler. The second is Natsuhi's son and Rudolf having to say there's something important regarding Battler's birth. Well, I guess the murder are about to be discovered, it's 3:00 AM. Back to the game. edit: whoa. Just 3 clicks away and the possibility of Krauss being infertile was put on the table.  Char fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Dec 19, 2021 |
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Dec 19, 2021 19:34
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Nerdietalk posted:I really need to get a hold of Ciconia, I'm craving that When They Cry vibe Ciconia is insanely good. Wish Phase 2 wasn't vaporware tho!
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Dec 19, 2021 20:05
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Char posted:
Remember that the Epitaph was primarily designed so that the most hardcore would have something to do during publication breaks of the original episodes, so some of the finer clues are more clearly present in a re-read. That said you're doing very well and more on the right track than not.
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Dec 19, 2021 20:48
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fez_machine posted:Remember that the Epitaph was primarily designed so that the most hardcore would have something to do during publication breaks of the original episodes, so some of the finer clues are more clearly present in a re-read. That said you're doing very well and more on the right track than not. So, I shall follow Virgilia's advice, and consider the epitaph as mostly non-relevant. Okay, Hideyoshi was killed in front of Natsuhi, while she was in the closet.  This seems a setup, but I don't get why she would be set up by Lambda's unknown Man From 19 Years Ago if Lambda's agenda is to push a fantasy murder. Other random thoughts: -A bunch of new red truths, and way less blurry compared to those Beatrice used, were put as constraints. Feels like there's zero wiggle room for a mystery murder. How was the letter delivered, and how was the knocking sound produced? -Natsuhi connected Shannon to something, and perhaps that's a connection to everything... -...and this reminds me we have had a criminal lack of focus onto the servants in this episode. Is this some kind of misdirection? -Also, speaking about misdirection and too little exposition, I'm pretty sure there's something relevant regarding the infant Kinzo "provided"... I feel it has to mix somehow with Rosa's story about Beatrice falling from the cliff. Once again, I can't really put this all into a solid chain of facts, but I'm starting to think Jessica isn't Krauss' daughter, just as Battler isn't Asumu's son. There's some weird fuckery going on with parents and children. I'm really wondering how this turns out
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Dec 20, 2021 03:30
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Rockman Reserve posted:
Don't give up, Skeleton! Char posted:
The real Umineko starts here
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Dec 20, 2021 03:39
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EP5 just concluded Tea party time. edit: and the ??? is going by. What the hell, Dlanor. Are you the author self insert? Anyway, having this massive exposition means that - aha, there's Gertrude telling me right now, that "it is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story". The culprit was already in EP1. Even more convinced now that it's a conspiracy, but now I'm starting to think it's a conspiracy within the conspiracy: I have no reason to think Natsuhi's sad story isn't real. There's still something unclear on how that mixes with Rosa's story, but let's leave that aside right now. WAIT - let me finish EP5 ??? as well... edit2: Whoa. WHOA. edit3: This is gonna be easy: Battler is not the detective character in this episode, Erika is. Therefore, anything we saw from his point of view can be considered false. Erika's bullshit is like the small cake bombs. Back to the game! edit4: Finally I'm not hostage of this episode anymore. Battler understood. I'm starting to understand as well, but only because Battler understood. I'm no different from him before his epiphany. I have no 'love'. I don't know how it fits together, but I understand. I'm starting to think George will be on the chopping block soon. And that drat Autumn card... wait, why could Natsuhi speak in red? Char fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Dec 21, 2021 |
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Dec 21, 2021 02:41
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I just started EP6. "In her latest forgery, 'End'... 'Alliance'... 'Banquet'..." Forgery? WHAT THE HELL!??!?
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Dec 21, 2021 21:21
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White Album 2 translation is out https://todokanaitl.github.io/patch/ Time to find out why this has constantly been in the top 5 over at VNDB You can buy a copy here https://dlsoft.dmm.co.jp/detail/aquap_0019/?i3_ref=search&i3_ord=1 theblackw0lf fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Dec 22, 2021 |
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Dec 22, 2021 22:25
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theblackw0lf posted:White Album 2 translation is out Ah, good, since the anime only really covered the prologue.
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Dec 23, 2021 00:32
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Wait, what now? The anime only covered the prologue???
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Dec 23, 2021 01:25
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More accurate would be to say that it only covers the first game. White Album 2 is split into "Intro Chapter", which was adapted, and "Closing Chapter", which wasn't.
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Dec 23, 2021 01:29
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Umineko EP6. Ok, the Featherine introduction was top notch. Japanese allows for really clever wordplay. A bit lowkey so far, which isn't a bad thing. That's the price of having 'love' in our game. Still a lot of metaphorical happenings, which I absolutely cannot explain. Anyway, "...If we blindly accept the story of those two Beatos as true,... might we assume that magic had the power to cancel out their feelings of 'resignation'?"  I wonder what's Featherine's deal. The story so far coded 'magic' - going by my own interpretation - as a kinda malicious/toxic/self destructive way to cope with despair. The Witch of Theatrics, so far, is being too benevolent. Char fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 23:03
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Umineko EP6 trip report, about to start EP7. Oookay... I didn't really like this episode, chick Beato felt kinda out of the place, and I guess that's intentional. There's a lot to recollect. Let's try. Random inconsequential thoughts. -Featherine is even worse than Bernkastel? Well no big surprise. Witches are BAD. -By the way, Hachijo, stop insulting me so directly, ok? I don't think that much during the story because you're going to explain me everything after I manage to read through all your manuscripts. Stop writing if you want me to think! -Erika is terrible, and at the same time, reminds me of a lot of people I know. Who cares about a perfect mathematical model of a problem, 'love' is way more important. Stuff that is more important. -Well, this episode was written for everyone who asked for explicit, dry truth, wasn't it? Shannon is Kanon is Beatrice. Perhaps Beatrice is also part of someone else, but Genji is Ronove and Kumasawa is Virgilia was something I expected long ago; Gaap is Nanjo? Perhaps. -"Board pieces" are simply characters that act coherently with their characterization: everything I've seen so far, what the "games" have shown, is unreliable with regards to respect of reality constraints, but is reliable wrt how the characters would behave in the circumstances they're in. Kyrie would always sniff out something fishy and confront it, Krassus would always feign leadership, Natsuhi would always behave according to her ideals. -This means the culprit has to be Shannon, because she's Beatrice. Genji is Ronove and Kumasawa is Virgilia. Am I triggering a logical error? I admit I'm going thorugh exclusion, but Shannon is the only person whose circumstances are compatible with being the culprit, or at least, the main culprit, according to what I wrote earlier: all games start with Kinzo dead, Krauss stressing our on how to handle this situation, Natsuhi taking charge, the servants and Nanjo acting as Kinzo was alive. In 6 episodes I haven't seen once Krauss having the upper hand against anyone except the discussion with his siblings (and, well, Goat-kun!). -The painting is two years old and the riddle is a red herring. Sayo somehow inherited the title of Head of the Ushiromiya family and the gold. Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo are loyal to the head of the Ushiromiya family, the four of them conspire against the family. This is confirmed by the bank deposits, the culprit had to have both the gold and a clear idea on who was onboard before the fourth of October in 1986. I don't know how why Ange got a deposit as well, though - perhaps out of sympathy? -Sayo was in love with Battler. Beatrice's whole persona comes from the few things Battler said about his taste in women. Undignified as he is, blonde, with clear eyes. When Battler removed himself from the Ushiromiya family, she had to cope with the reality she'd never see him anymore, and had to use 'magic'. She split into three different personas: Beatrice, to keep alive the illusion of being able to meet Battler again, Shannon, who accepted she'd never see Battler again, and Kanon, because - pulling things out of my rear end here - Jessica was way more similar to Battler than George, and those two were pretty much the only other young adults she could interact with. -I still don't know why this all comes up exactly in 1986... let me check up real quick EP2... no, I see no mention of Sayo discovering Battler will be at the family meeting in 1986. So, I'm left with --logic error incoming-- how did Sayo manage to force Kinzo to commission the painting, if the epitaph was born with it? Okay, the most glamorous way to do this would be Kinzo being convinced that Sayo somehow deserved his symbolic inheritance way more than everyone else, and constructing the painting/epitaph lie later. Also, Rudolf never managed to say out what's the big deal with Battler's mother. We know he wasn't born from Asumu. The coin is still up - was he born from Kyrie, from Kinzo's mistress, or none of the above? My theory goes with Sayo, and if Battler could be her sibling, there would be foreshadowing about this, while there has been instead romantic foreshadowing between them so far. So Battler cannot be born from Kinzo's mistress and he wasn't born from Asumu. This leaves Kyrie unless there are other reasonable options (like, I was suspecting Natsuhi early on, but there wouldn't be any reason for her to not remember this), and it creates a new question - Rudolf married Asumu, so why did he create the conditions to make sure Asumu was the one he should've married? I'm not convinced by Kyrie's explaination. Could be a big red herring though, and Asumu herself managed to alter the conditions - ie, she somehow managed to switch infants. Well this would tie up everything neatly. edit: oh! another thing that escaped me while I wat sorting out all this stuff. I don't yet know what's Sayo's hisotry of abuse. Come on, it's impossible there isn't any, it's the central theme of this story. OK, onto EP7 now. Char fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 18:21
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EP6 is kind of a weird chapter where a lot of lands better when you think back on it in retrospect rather than in the moment, once you have a much firmer grasp of the context of what it is going for as you learn more going forward. Consequently, EP7 is my favorite of the whole lot for doing a lot of that legwork.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:40
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Char posted:Umineko EP6 trip report, about to start EP7. Lol, remember what happened to battler when he stopped thinking.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:44
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EP7 isn't wasting time either Will managed to BSOD Shannon in less than five minutes from meeting her and somehow, BSODing her means the game collapses, heh edit: Gaius Marius posted:Lol, remember what happened to battler when he stopped thinking. edit2: Ohhh poo poo, I didn't think about the time frames. Right, Kinzo was born in the 1900s or something, so his mistress couldn't be the same young woman that died in 1967. It was her daughter. drat I have to start over. edit3: Mention of the Salo Republic. This episode is going places Actually, I thought Kinzo's childhood place could've been Firenze, some episodes ago Oh poo poo, wait, a submarine here? gently caress, the gold is real, it comes from the reich/italy, there's a real life parallel about this  edit4: I took a nap and got back to playing. "Yeah, I'll come, that's for certain. I'll meet you there." And a few minutes later, "Probably... Your misfortune probably came... when you solved the epitaph's riddle." edit5: Ok I'm going to sleep now. I'll read the Tea Party tomorrow. This was a great episode. Char fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Dec 26, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 18:46
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Since I'm on holiday, I spent most of my time on Umineko. single EP8 thought I'm a goat, am I? 
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Dec 27, 2021 04:33
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Char posted:
This is why it's essential to post speculation and analysis of Umineko to get the whole experience
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Dec 27, 2021 09:51
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Not done yet with EP8, but I really didn't expect the story going so dark: specifically, Kinzo having a son with the daughter of the real Beatrice; Yasu surviving and growing up in such a terrible situation, helped by exactly no-one; Nanjo being so amoral; Genji bearing pretty much an unrequited love to Kinzo. I missed why the servants could be willing to "conspire" against the family, even if that was the only reasonable explaination, and why Beatrice the Third was so inconsistent. I started putting together some pieces by the end of EP5, when I said "I understood", it's because EP4 and EP5 build up a sentimental involvement between Battler and Beatrice, and start laying out connections between the identities of Shannon and Beatrice. But I couldn't really imagine how twisted could their situation be. Dispelling the fantasy aspects becomes easy once you have tangible motivations for a massacre, just look at Kyrie I have still a bunch of questions. Let's see if further reading answer them. I could theorize but I'm seeing no clues (Mostly - the first appearance of Gaap seems to be a bit too random, do they represent something I missed? And, could Hachijo Toya be connected to the 1986 cast?). Well, time to wrap it up (lol I wonder how many more hours of reading are there waiting) Char fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 11:18
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is Cho Dengeki Stryker any good? I found it on my Steam wishlist while going through it to trim it and don't remember why I put it on there in the first place.
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Dec 27, 2021 19:49
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I did it. I played all of Umineko. What a rollercoaster. I'm looking back to everything I felt during my play. I was genuinely touched. I'm rereading my previous posts and I feel a little bit less of a goat now. It's painful to notice now how blind I was the horrible acts Kinzo and the servants carried out. List of lols, looking back: -"I don't yet know what's Sayo's hisotry of abuse. Come on, it's impossible there isn't any, it's the central theme of this story." I had read up to EP6 and I was completely blindsided by how tragic Yasu's story could turn out. -"I missed why Beatrice the Third was so inconsistent" Yeah no poo poo, the first two were written by Yasu, the others by Toya/Ikuko! -my Gaap fixation. Why? That's because I'm a goat. -"is Dlanor the author self insert?" Nope, lol -my Asumu fixation Reading would have paid off; I misunderstood the timing on what happened when. Anyway, Rudolf is a terrible person and there's not much more than that. -"could Hachijo Toya be connected to the 1986 cast?" lol -missing the whole theme of Ange's story I must admit her story didn't resonate that much with me. Okay, time to sell this work to anyone who appreciates reading. I know it's going to be hard considering the medium, but I'll try. No wonder this and Fata Morgana are two of the best VNs. I guess I should consider playing Higurashi and Ciconia now. Char fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 03:10
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Higurashi/Ciconia are absolutely worth playing if you were down with Umineko, though obviously being a much earlier work in his career the early Higurashi chapters take a bit to find their footing. In terms of postgame there's Last note of the golden witch (which is TLed via 07th-mod if you can find a copy of Saku) as well as the various Tsubasa/Hana TIPs which vary from just fun/quirky sidestories and others which are fairly illuminating in their own right. There's also the EP8 manga-only chapters Confession of the golden witch which turns a little bit of the subtext into just text but also is kind of an interesting complementary piece.
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Dec 28, 2021 03:32
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Nate RFB posted:Higurashi/Ciconia are absolutely worth playing if you were down with Umineko, though obviously being a much earlier work in his career the early Higurashi chapters take a bit to find their footing. I just read about Last Note, but it seems translating Ciconia took priority. I am reading the manga right now. Is my preconceived opinion about Japanese audience not liking/not being used to show-not-tell approaches wrong, or was Ryushiki criticized for keeping things too obscure?
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Dec 28, 2021 03:39
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Higurashi Hou+ was just announced to be coming out on January 28th, which is pretty exciting to me.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:48
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Char posted:I am reading the manga right now. Is my preconceived opinion about Japanese audience not liking/not being used to show-not-tell approaches wrong, or was Ryushiki criticized for keeping things too obscure? Mainly the second, in that Japanese reviews of ep 8 almost exclusively focus on "it didn't give us a hard mystery answer".
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Dec 28, 2021 09:45
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Umineko: there's a single thing I didn't manage to understand. It's not a big deal, but when in EP7 Willard asks Shannon to discuss something with her and Kanon... I don't understand what's the implication. She starts breaking down, the manga doesn't give further explainations, while the VN describes what's happening as "Willard is making a novice mistake". Is Shannon threatening Willard? She's threatening what, exactly? It's something minor but I can't really understand what's the deal here. Why should it be a novice mistake? If I follow the question literally - "Who is the one that orders us?" the answer is obvious but I don't see how that could leverage any threat.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:44
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Don't take this the wrong way hopefully, but you do understand the major broad story with Shannon and Kanon and how they relate to Yasu, correct? And therefore why the first time we have an objective/detective POV like Will demand that they both be physically present in the same location causes immediate issues for them?
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Dec 28, 2021 20:00
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It not only poses an issue, it threatens to unravel the fabric of the narrative as presented, which, in context, constitutes and is equivalent to reality.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:29
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Nate RFB posted:Don't take this the wrong way hopefully, but you do understand the major broad story with Shannon and Kanon and how they relate to Yasu, correct? And therefore why the first time we have an objective/detective POV like Will demand that they both be physically present in the same location causes immediate issues for them? LordMune posted:It not only poses an issue, it threatens to unravel the fabric of the narrative as presented, which, in context, constitutes and is equivalent to reality. Yes, I simply found it kinda weird the narration presented it as a threat from a specific entity. As with everything, the manga makes it a bit less ambiguous. I assumed your explaination was all that was there, but I had the nagging feeling "the one who orders us" meant something else I didn't catch onto. Besides, I expected some leeway in reality bending as Lion can be seen in the same room as Shannon/Kanon. No big deal, I guess. Char fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 21:45
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Char posted:Umineko:
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Dec 28, 2021 22:29
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Argue posted:Late to the party and just finished the entire corpus of Fata Morgana. Good stuff; my only big issue was wtf kind of resolution was that for Yukimasa and Pauline in Reincarnation? GO SEE A THERAPIST YOU BOZO Just finished reincarnation and yeah holy poo poo I realize that there's really no healthy way to rehab that relationship but that got loving wild.
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Dec 30, 2021 07:04
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I've only just started dipping my toe in to VNs and am currently playing AI: The Somnium Files and this thing has some wild tonal shifts. I love that it goes from dad jokes to "the partially-digested eye of the victim's ex-wife was found in his intestine.
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Dec 31, 2021 15:16
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That's Uchikoshi in a nutshell, though I think AI is probably his best overall balance of the two.
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Dec 31, 2021 16:25
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I've been watching Higruashi Gou (for the first time) and it made me think back to a question I don't think I ever figured out about the VN While obviously most of chapter 1 makes sense when you understand Keiichi is misunderstanding the tone of his friends and hallucinating the needle and such, how should Rena's visit where she leaves be explained? I can't really think of an explanation for that one
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Jan 8, 2022 23:13
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MegaZeroX posted:I've been watching Higruashi Gou (for the first time) and it made me think back to a question I don't think I ever figured out about the VN While obviously most of chapter 1 makes sense when you understand Keiichi is misunderstanding the tone of his friends and hallucinating the needle and such, how should Rena's visit where she leaves be explained? I can't really think of an explanation for that one I presume she goes up, hears him on the phone for a while, then leaves since he's busy.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:19
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Didn't she wait for a full hour? I feel like I remember Mr. Maebara saying she had just left. Doesn't really change what happened but lol Rena.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:24
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