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Honestly lets talk about the real much-needed change in the game Too many scions have white hair. Please diversify yoship.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:07
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DoTs weren't even something meaningful to keep track of in ShB. With the "DoT jobs," they were mostly applied or reapplied by one button every 30s. And a few abilities did react off them, but realistically, no they didn't. Everyone else mostly just applied them by pressing your rotation halfway competently. When I think DoT job, I think something like vanilla wow warlock that had 3 or 4 different dots, with different effects, cast times, timers, and interactions. Not a maintenance button every 30 seconds.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:16
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Saint Freak posted:Honestly lets talk about the real much-needed change in the game This actually got asked in a Q&A from the Chinese FanFest fairly recently: quote:Q: Why do the scions have so many white/grey haired members? Basically, it's an accident that as they cycled characters in and out of the Scions they got rid of the characters with other hair colours and brought in characters with white hair.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:21
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Endorph posted:unfortunately i think they do just hate dots. but at that point just remove them from the game completely. I'm guessing they want to make each job place at most one debuff on enemies to make things not get weird in 24- or 48- player content. But DoTs are cool and there's now a clear opening for a DoT specialist time mage or something. Things they could do include A) you only have a single DoT debuff that tracks stacks or stages as you cast your various spells on the boss B) you have a buff/gauge that tracks your DoT output and a Death's Design-style mark you put on enemies, and every marked enemy takes autoattack-style damage from you based on your own gauge status C) you "cook" DoTs as statuses on your own character and then just unleash their full compiled damage on stuff periodically.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:25
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Mr. Nice! posted:Big same. Just play the game. If you don't like something, sure, go off. But I do not and cannot ever care what some random person cares about cooldown changes and I'm the one weirdo that pines for HW dragoon. I pine for all drg versions, even the mutually exclusive ones endwalker drg might finally be braindead enough that I'm unhappy with it, after removing one of the last things you had to keep track of (buff windows aligning with stardiver) and replacing it with something as rigid as the gcd rotation is ZenMasterBullshit posted:But if you do more damage your parse go up and the fight over faster. How would this pad anything? A few pages back but I'm not sure anyone answered this in full detail. When there's multiple enemies, you do more damage--either by double dotting or aoeing or just getting splash damage or whatever. No surprise there. If the fight goes completely smoothly it's something like 99% single target and 1% multitarget. By intentionally doing the phase wrong, you can change that into something more like 95% single target and 5% multitarget. The fight takes longer, but you end up having a higher average damage.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:29
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like that quote said its also probably a design distinction, if you look basically every major scion has a really neutral color. twins: white, white thancred: white yshtola: white urianger: white krile: brown minfilia: blonde lyse: blonde estinien: white papalymo: blonde and this extends even to other major story characters. taking stormblood as a rando example zenos: blonde hien: black yugiri: black gosetsu: white arenvald: blonde raubahn: blackish brown nanamo: whitish blonde the character designers just seem to dislike bold anime style hair colors as a design decision. even reddish/orange hair which is an actual natural color is pretty rare, i can only think of fordola and graha as far as major characters go. stuff like blue or green hair seems exclusive to otherworldly characters. (I thiiink Sadu's might be a really dark shade of blue, but still)
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Dec 27, 2021 21:30
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:DoTs weren't even something meaningful to keep track of in ShB. With the "DoT jobs," they were mostly applied or reapplied by one button every 30s. And a few abilities did react off them, but realistically, no they didn't. literally still not true with bard, as i already said. you could not just hit iron jaws every 30 seconds because of the refulgent proc chance. overwriting a refulgent proc you held to apply dots was a loss. your options were to do it anyways or use jaws earlier. except even then its not true because it was worth it to get an extra refresh up if there were enough buffs up, which could happen even outside your own buff window. pretending the high level optimizations in this game dont exist and then going "so what you want is the high level optimizations in the OTHER game" is a bad point. bard was a dot job! it was one in shb, and in stormblood too. and now its not. its not "always been true" and now theyre just making it obvious. it literally was one and they took it away.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:33
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Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if part of the gradual carving away of DoTs has been to try and ease the data transfer load by reducing the amount of calculating needed on each server tick. I don't think it's a coincidence that stuff like SCH shields finally being applied instantly is in the same expansion where they've pared down DoTs (and skills that interact with them) to a bare minimum.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:35
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I don't watch Stal but I saw an EW clip where they said they skip cutscenes and don't enjoy the story. Now, I don't know if they were being ironic or not, but still, any opinions from Stal are pretty sketch in my book 
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Dec 27, 2021 21:37
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i doubt it. yoshi-p's said he doesnt like dots on a design or game balance level iirc, them being pared down seems more to do with this.Kagaya Homoraisan posted:literally still not true with bard, as i already said. you could not just hit iron jaws every 30 seconds because of the refulgent proc chance. overwriting a refulgent proc you held to apply dots was a loss. your options were to do it anyways or use jaws earlier. except even then its not true because it was worth it to get an extra refresh up if there were enough buffs up, which could happen even outside your own buff window. pretending the high level optimizations in this game dont exist and then going "so what you want is the high level optimizations in the OTHER game" is a bad point. bard was a dot job! it was one in shb, and in stormblood too. and now its not. its not "always been true" and now theyre just making it obvious. it literally was one and they took it away. ftr i like new bard fine but yeah its weird that people are pretending this wasnt a thing. i didnt do a ton of raiding in shb in general and especially not on bard but even in alliance raids i noticed this optimization. if people didnt care about it or didnt enjoy it then sure but it totally existed. same as like, sam juggling its buffs. they removed that optimization too. most people would agree that was a positive change feel-wise but nobody'd pretend it wasnt a thing you had to do.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:37
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Wasn't keeping your DoTs from falling off more important than wasting a Refulgent use, though?
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Dec 27, 2021 21:40
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I originally leveled black mage during ShB with trusts and then never touched the class again. I'm planning on leveling it via trusts again, but I don't know what any of these buttons do. How do I black mage?
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Dec 27, 2021 21:41
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Dots are good, they just need to implement them better. ShB Bard desperately needed Bane, I honestly would have preferred this (or adding the effect to Iron Jaws/Shadowbite) to what they did because there are already too few dot classes. They really should implement Pandemic timers like WoW, especially given the game's latency. In WoW — a game which has a ton of dot classes — you can refresh your dots when 30% of their duration is left and the time is added to the new dot so you have a lot more leeway for reapplying them. They should also change a ton of debuffs to buffs on the player instead, because it is comical that you simply cannot apply dots in large group content in 2021. Looking at you Reaper! Firebert fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 21:41
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Mordiceius posted:I originally leveled black mage during ShB with trusts and then never touched the class again. I'm planning on leveling it via trusts again, but I don't know what any of these buttons do. Mordiceius posted:How to play black mage:
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Dec 27, 2021 21:42
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Arist posted:Wasn't keeping your DoTs from falling off more important than wasting a Refulgent use, though? the choice wasnt drop dots or not, the choice was when to use iron jaws, because you could use it early to bank on not dropping a refulgent but this was a loss in another way since you lose a set of ticks. which is directly counter to "you just hit the button every 30 seconds and refreshed the dots for free, so its not a dot class  ". and then again, you could hit iron jaws say twice in 15 seconds if it was a raid buff window, even if you yourself werent in raging strikes. all you needed was 2 "big buffs" (so trick, chain strat, litany) for that to be worth it.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:44
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Should I be bothering with retainers as a level 40 newbie? Should I do ventures with them? If not now, when do they become meaningful?
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Dec 27, 2021 21:46
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high end raiders are often cutscene skippers, they don't know who they're fighting or why and don't care
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Dec 27, 2021 21:48
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Endorph posted:the character designers just seem to dislike bold anime style hair colors as a design decision. even reddish/orange hair which is an actual natural color is pretty rare, i can only think of fordola and graha as far as major characters go. stuff like blue or green hair seems exclusive to otherworldly characters. (I thiiink Sadu's might be a really dark shade of blue, but still)  I finally found a story NPC who's even similar to the WoL.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:50
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Devor posted:Should I be bothering with retainers as a level 40 newbie? Should I do ventures with them? Ventures are easy money, and you need to level retainers up to get to the good ones, so I'd start as soon as you have enough seals to buy some ventures.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:51
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FuturePastNow posted:high end raiders are often cutscene skippers, they don't know who they're fighting or why and don't care Don't think this is true for most of the savage population!
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Dec 27, 2021 21:52
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Devor posted:Should I be bothering with retainers as a level 40 newbie? Should I do ventures with them? Sending retainers on ventures is a pretty stress free way to make cash early on. Either by sending them after whichever crafting material they can get that sells for the most, or rolling the dice on a quick venture and sometimes getting back something that sells for 6 figures. Don't worry about maximizing their uptime. Just send them out, and then check in on them the next time you happen to be near a bell. If you're regularly doing expert delivery of unwanted dungeon drops you can be swimming in venture coins pretty quickly, with even more if you're also doing beast tribe quests.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:52
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Ventures are a great way to make money. Some cosmetic stuff like minions can only be gotten from ventures. See: Fat Cat.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:53
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FuturePastNow posted:high end raiders are often cutscene skippers, they don't know who they're fighting or why and don't care While often true, a decent percentage of the cutscene skipping high end raiders also do go back and Ng+ the story once they're finished doing what they want to in the endgame content.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:57
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raiders are just as varied as the rest of this games players. i think the only sense they are notable in the cutscene skipping department is they maybe have a lil more impetus to skip them to get to stuff. but on the flip my group had zero people who skipped them. we even had someone on the complete opposite end who takes like twice as long to do the story as the rest of us cuz shes screenshotting basically every line of text to be able to refer to it later lol.
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Dec 27, 2021 21:59
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Firebert posted:Dots are good, they just need to implement them better. ShB Bard desperately needed Bane, I honestly would have preferred this (or adding the effect to Iron Jaws/Shadowbite) to what they did because there are already too few dot classes. They really should implement Pandemic timers like WoW, especially given the game's latency. In WoW — a game which has a ton of dot classes — you can refresh your dots when 30% of their duration is left and the time is added to the new dot so you have a lot more leeway for reapplying them. I was thinking about this too a bit earlier, a pandemic effect would be so nice to have. I am a person who likes DoT effects in general, but having to time them so carefully because you neither want to let them fall off nor overwrite potency is just annoying.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:02
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it was super weird to me they never added a Bane skill for bard, especially after they added Shadowbite, an AoE attack that did more damage to targets with dots
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Dec 27, 2021 22:09
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Bane on Bard would have been absurdly broken when Repertoire still procced off DoTs, and now that it doesn't there's no reason to DoT trash or adds anyway. I never understood the whining for it.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:11
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Badger of Basra posted:it was super weird to me they never added a Bane skill for bard, especially after they added Shadowbite, an AoE attack that did more damage to targets with dots As a note I'm pretty sure old Shadowbite only cared if the initial target had dots and did that amount of scaling damage to anyone around them.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:15
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Alxprit posted:As a note I'm pretty sure old Shadowbite only cared if the initial target had dots and did that amount of scaling damage to anyone around them. It's this.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:16
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my favorite wow class is lock so i do hope they eventually make a dedicated dot class. green mage or necromancer or something.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:16
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There's a lot of different ways that dots could be implemented. Unfortunately, having every dot just be a delayed application of X potency damage and you have to keep track of when to re-apply it is probably the least fun way to do it. If we're stuck with just this method due to concerns about server load, client limitations, etc then I'd think at least you should be able to re-apply them a bit early and have the duration stack (this works with food, it could work with debuffs also) or improve the interface so it's easier to manage the timers (like having the button on your hotbar start flashing if you target has the dot but it's about to run out).
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Dec 27, 2021 22:22
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Speaking of dot snapshots, how does it work the other way, dots on players? Can you throw up Troubador partway through, for example, and take some of the edge off?
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Dec 27, 2021 22:24
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Bruceski posted:Speaking of dot snapshots, how does it work the other way, dots on players? Can you throw up Troubador partway through, for example, and take some of the edge off? No. You have to do it before it applies.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:25
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Endorph posted:my favorite wow class is lock so i do hope they eventually make a dedicated dot class. green mage or necromancer or something. this reminded me of the sexy necromancer in heroes gauntlet. how strange. was that a reference to something
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Dec 27, 2021 22:27
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Wow! Thanks, past me!
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Dec 27, 2021 22:27
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Mordiceius posted:I originally leveled black mage during ShB with trusts and then never touched the class again. I'm planning on leveling it via trusts again, but I don't know what any of these buttons do. It's basically the same as ShB - you want to cast Fire IV as many times as possible. Because Fire IV is only castable under Astral Fire, but doesn't refresh Astral Fire, you'll occasionally have to cast Fire instead. Single target goes: B3, T3, B4, F3, F4 F4 F4, Fire, F4 F4 F4, Despair, repeat. You might have to make compromises or replace F4s with Fires or just skip to the Despair at the end depending on what happens. At level 90, replace Fire with Paradox, and also add a Paradox to the umbral cycle. AoE goes: B2, T4, Freeze, F2, F2, F2, Flare, Flare. Generally, you want to refresh Thunder as it's about to fall off and use your Polyglot spells either to move or to prevent a fully polyglot stack from overwriting itself and being wasted.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:29
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Badger of Basra posted:this reminded me of the sexy necromancer in heroes gauntlet. how strange. was that a reference to something All the bosses there are jobs they were considering but couldn't make work, or decided not to use for some other reason. I believe berserker was originally intended to be a DPS off-shoot of warrior, like summoner and scholar. Begemot fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 22:32
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My entire raid group cares a lot about the story, and we've got some triple ultimate people too. Also Coil story was what got me into raiding way back when. I don't really know any raiders who don't pay attention honestly.
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Dec 27, 2021 22:33
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Charles Get-Out posted:My entire raid group cares a lot about the story, and we've got some triple ultimate people too. Also Coil story was what got me into raiding way back when. i knew one back in HW but he was also revealed to be a botter so he didn't care about gameplay either
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Dec 27, 2021 22:34
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Endorph posted:my favorite wow class is lock so i do hope they eventually make a dedicated dot class. green mage or necromancer or something. Wow warlocks actually had some interesting things to do with their damage over time spells though. You had the immolation / conflagration combos, you had curse of agony that would hit increasingly harder every tick and curse of Doom that back loaded all the damage when the debuff ran out. He'll, you had channeled life and Mama drains to keep you in the fight. You were also a hard debuffer and crowd control, both of which xiv really doesn't have a niche for. And even then, a lot of the time, one you set your dots and debuffs, a lot of the time you just fill time spamming shadowbolt. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 27, 2021 |
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Dec 27, 2021 22:36
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