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Bob Mundon posted:This. It real is crazy how awesome they are compared to how little you hear about them. I didn't even know of their existence until recently. Still working on getting that right...
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Dec 28, 2021 03:04
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Stultus Maximus posted:Still working on getting that right... Never did nail that with a screwdriver either. Finally bit the bullet and got a carbide burnisher, then a light shone down from the heavens.
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Dec 28, 2021 03:21
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Just Winging It posted:It's a popular misconception that magazines exist to disseminate information. It's not. It's to make money, and since people have long since caught on to regular advertising being designed to sell you poo poo you don't need, they need to be sneakier. Hence the articles about shiny new tools that you really can't live without, which in actuality you can do without very well, or to which exist far cheaper substitutes. But instilling a fear of not having the right equipment works very well to get people to spend money to alleviate that fear, when actually teaching them to acquire the skills to do it with far cheaper tools would be a far better option. That, and used/fixed-up tools, aren't in the interest of the advertisers though, so that's not happening. Also, without the tool-shilling treadmill ~articles~ you run out of potential content very fast, as you can't run "10 ways to up your sharpening game", or "7 must-have table saw jigs" every other issue. That was my take too with FWW back in the day when they got repetitive, although their gurus were legit. What I particularly loved/hated was the beautiful concept furniture pieces they'd show in gorgeous lighting that I both admired and yelled at the craftsmen/women for being entitled enough to attend the Rhode Island Institute of Idk, Design, and having the goddamned 400 hours of free time you bastards try to make an actual living getting squeezed by crooked contractors, eventually falling over backward in my chair, foaming at the mouth.... I've still got books of absolutely amazing furniture shows they put out in the 80's-90's.
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Dec 28, 2021 03:27
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Bob Mundon posted:Never did nail that with a screwdriver either. Finally bit the bullet and got a carbide burnisher, then a light shone down from the heavens. I just read so much contradictory advice. So do you use light, firm, or hard pressure?
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Dec 28, 2021 03:49
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CommonShore posted:What are... Opioid posted:I did a week course with Roy Underhill back in 2017, he chatted a lot about the strange politics behind woodworking magazines. He refuses to work with Fine Woodworking. They got tired of him always saying you don’t need fancy new tools and how to take care of second hand and used stuff. And that all the fancy new Veritas stuff or Festool tools can’t entirely replace taking the time to learn the skill. They would send him products to review but when he said ‘it’s just ok, not worth the money and there’s no need to reinvent the wheel’ they decided he wasn’t worth engaging with anymore. Popular Woodworking is a bit better he said but in the end they all are a never ending treadmill of endorsements and trying to milk the inexperienced reader. I've been listening to the FWW podcast lately and enjoyed it and learned stuff and it has made me think, but it has really made me see the magazine in a different light. It's exactly what you and others are saying-it exists to create desire for Lie-Nielsen and Veritas products and get people to enroll in woodworking classes. That's not necessarily a bad thing-those are great tools and instruction by an experienced human, through apprenticeship or a class, is the best way to learn a manual craft, but it's made me realize how separate the woodworking hobby industry is from the actually woodworking industry. There's still a ton of great knowledge there though, even if there is not much new. We've figured out how to do stuff faster with machines, but nothing has fundamentally changed in this craft in 200 years. There's also this weird fetishization of 'professional' woodworkers, when like, 98% of professional woodworkers don't own or know how to use a hand plane, the tool by which all fine woodworkers must judge each other. You won't find a handplane in most any professional cabinet or millwork shop. Probably some chisels, maybe a block plane, but there are no Roubo workbenches or marking gauges there. I get some woodworking trade magazines, and the things actual professional woodworkers care about are 1) sanding faster 2) sanding faster 3) sanding faster 4) sanding faster 5) finishing faster 6)4x8 CNC routers 7) $20,000 sliding table saws and 8) shaper tooling. There is a very tiny minority of woodworkers that lovingly handplanes studio furniture and obsesses about joinery(and I think mostly writes articles and teaches courses to make a living), and quite a few more who make a living repairing and refinishing furniture and occasionally get to make a reproduction, but most people who make a living working wood spend very very very little time with a handplane and don't care much about joinery because they know their customers don't care (or know) about fancy joinery. And that is not at all to knock the people who handplane and write articles and books and teach! They are able to explore and experiment and contribute hugely to our craft and I think give us all something to aspire to and a reason to keep telling ourselves 'I can do better than what I did yesterday' Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 04:09
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Stultus Maximus posted:I just read so much contradictory advice. So do you use light, firm, or hard pressure? Semi-optional step of drawing out the edge, heavy pressure. For actually rolling the burr, light pressure and extremely minimal angle. Like 2-3 degrees at most. That, and a real burnisher makes a giant difference in the results.
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Dec 28, 2021 04:29
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how do you sand faster tho, really
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Dec 28, 2021 04:46
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Make perfectly accurate cuts, using blades with more, finer teeth.
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Dec 28, 2021 04:55
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That and really big sanding machines that are like a wide belt sander but then with orbital heads after that? They only seem to cost 100 grand. They also make fully automated finishing lines that spray the lacquer and scuff sand it and UV cure it and everything. I think that’s why all the furniture is square and flat these days
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Dec 28, 2021 05:00
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:
I think we have to lay that one at the feet of the trend of minimalism in interior design. Bring back rococo imho
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Dec 28, 2021 05:24
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That fetishization of professionals is gonna be there in basically any hobby. Home brewing is full of people chasing "professional-grade" equipment on a homebrew scale, but like, commercial brewers have a completely different set of constraints than hobbyists do. They need to make the same beer, perfectly consistently, for years and years, they're trying to make things that customers want right now, and they have cost, time, and legal considerations that just aren't a problem for homebrewers.
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Dec 28, 2021 05:35
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SimonSays posted:I think we have to lay that one at the feet of the trend of minimalism in interior design. Bring back rococo imho neither efficient enough to cheaply mass produce in a world of power tools nor expensive enough to make for good conspicuous consumption in a world where Bangladesh is but a container ship away, baroque flourishes will always lose out to the guy bedazzling IKEA rectangles with diamonds
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Dec 28, 2021 06:10
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I’m at the point where I'm ready to glue up my Anarchist Workbench-lite, has anyone here done it and has any advice? It’ll be my first time gluing up something so complex and not sure how fast to need to move - using Titebond 1 I think the assembly time is like 15 mins which per-joint is fine but I have a lot to get through, I assume it’s still gonna be at least movable by the time I come to hammer in drawbore pegs? And should I loosely put the pegs in as I go or wait until the whole assembly is together?
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Dec 28, 2021 09:54
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Noxville posted:I’m at the point where I'm ready to glue up my Anarchist Workbench-lite, has anyone here done it and has any advice? It’ll be my first time gluing up something so complex and not sure how fast to need to move - using Titebond 1 I think the assembly time is like 15 mins which per-joint is fine but I have a lot to get through, I assume it’s still gonna be at least movable by the time I come to hammer in drawbore pegs? And should I loosely put the pegs in as I go or wait until the whole assembly is together? If you're talking the final glue-up the glue setting shouldn''t be a problem. In the AWB book Schwarz gives the advice "you should be able to drive a timber-frame tenon into mortise using your hat." If you're having to spend a ton of time squeezing the stretchers into the legs, your fit is too tight and your tenons can probably be sanded or planed down 1/32" or so just to make that a bit less painful. Then he gives this advice which I mostly followed: quote:the glue is just extra insurance because the drawbore pegs provide all the pressure you need.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:17
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Noxville posted:I’m at the point where I'm ready to glue up my Anarchist Workbench-lite, has anyone here done it and has any advice? It’ll be my first time gluing up something so complex and not sure how fast to need to move - using Titebond 1 I think the assembly time is like 15 mins which per-joint is fine but I have a lot to get through, I assume it’s still gonna be at least movable by the time I come to hammer in drawbore pegs? And should I loosely put the pegs in as I go or wait until the whole assembly is together? I would use TB3 or TB extend if possible. TB 1 has a very short open/working time, those glues have a much longer open time. I'm not too familiar with that exact glue up, but the more you can glue up subassemblies (legs/end stretchers) first, the better.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:26
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On a big glue up I like to do a trial run where I go through each part, pretend to spread glue and get my clamps set and laid out where they need to be. When I did my work bench I timed myself just to make sure I was under 15 min. Though you don't realize just how much work those drawbores are doing until you hammer them home. Also yeah I second not using TB1 and going with TB2 instead, it cures stronger and has a longer open time.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:35
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I do actually have some Titebond 3 so will probably use that instead and yeah none of my mortified are so tight that they’re a real effort to sink so should be alright. Will probably pay borrow my wife for a second pair of hands and I expect all will be fine, thanks all
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Dec 28, 2021 16:00
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I've been listening to the FWW podcast lately and enjoyed it and learned stuff and it has made me think, but it has really made me see the magazine in a different light. It's exactly what you and others are saying-it exists to create desire for Lie-Nielsen and Veritas products and get people to enroll in woodworking classes. That's not necessarily a bad thing-those are great tools and instruction by an experienced human, through apprenticeship or a class, is the best way to learn a manual craft, but it's made me realize how separate the woodworking hobby industry is from the actually woodworking industry. There's still a ton of great knowledge there though, even if there is not much new. We've figured out how to do stuff faster with machines, but nothing has fundamentally changed in this craft in 200 years. This isn't meant to be snarky, but is that really much of a surprise? I assumed that FWW contributors make most of their money teaching classes and charging exorbitant amounts for individual commissioned studio furniture pieces. There's probably a whole class of small-shop woodworking shops I'm not aware of, but as far as I know, even expensive "handmade" furniture makers use pretty giant machines to do a lot of the hardest parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o14JK43aJQ
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Dec 28, 2021 16:08
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I love watching DIY furniture videos and then the dude goes over to his giant shaper.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:13
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That's why I like watching Rex Kreuger and Wood by Wright
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Dec 28, 2021 16:17
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z0331 posted:This isn't meant to be snarky, but is that really much of a surprise? I assumed that FWW contributors make most of their money teaching classes and charging exorbitant amounts for individual commissioned studio furniture pieces. There's probably a whole class of small-shop woodworking shops I'm not aware of, but as far as I know, even expensive "handmade" furniture makers use pretty giant machines to do a lot of the hardest parts: You don't have to look much further than this thread to see that there's a definite phenomenon of hobbyists thinking 'real', 'professional' woodworking is when you take seven months to painstakingly hand chisel and plane a reproduction Federal desk, what's CAD It's the aspirational image that's been used for advertising for decades, most people don't wanna hear that if you're not already idle rich the ways to make a living in a creative field are to churn out dozens of the same thing every week or to teach A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 16:20
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Rufio posted:I love watching DIY furniture videos and then the dude goes over to his giant shaper. If you're referring to the video I posted that's not DIY, it's for Thomas Moser, a high-end furniture maker. And that's kind of my point. They're "handmade," but if you asked any of them why they don't hand carve each chair seat they'd (rightfully) look at you like you're a loving moron. The day they got that shaper was probably a super happy day for a lot of people in that shop.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:24
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All this is why I'm perfectly content to be 'just' a hobbyist. I had some vague aspirations to do it for a living, but after I looked into it seriously just said no. The amount of money you need to invest up front to get things off the ground and be able to produce on a level that you can actually compete price-wise is just too much. No guarantee of success, because the economies of what you can make that way inevitably lead to producing similar products as the rest, except now you're going up against companies that don't blink at throwing a couple 100 grand at some automated finishing line or machining centers, so you're fighting a battle you're not going to win. On the other end of the spectrum you have the fancy high-end bespoke furniture where you can charge exorbitant amounts for one-off studio furniture, but good loving luck breaking into that market, as now you're going up against the generational wealth/trust fund crowd who can afford to sell one or two pieces a year far below cost that they pour hundreds of hours into because they don't have to worry about things like making rent/paying the mortgage. Even then, what would even be left? You'd be running a business first and foremost, and the woodworking you used to enjoy a very distant second or third, and it wouldn't even resemble what you used to do anyway. Good luck and more power to you if you take the leap, but I'll pass. I'll just gently caress around in the spare bedroom I call my workshop, make things I want for myself, or to give away, doing what I enjoy. Maybe have it be a small time side-hustle selling the occasional small pieces to help fund my hobby, but nothing more than that. Potentially doing some repair/restoration work in the future, once what little is left of the old guard is gone there might be opportunities there, though the amount of actually repairable furniture that's still around at prices ordinary people can afford is only going down.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:20
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Just Winging It posted:Good info. A family friend chased the craft fair market and holiday market. He found what sold (by seeing what's selling), makes enough to fill a trailer, then brings it to the largest craft shows he can find. One year it was wooden trash can boxes and he made nothing but wooden trash can boxes for an entire year. His other big seller is renting space in a mall in Chicago from Nov to January. He did well but everything is 100% production, so jigs, fixtures, power rollers, etc. It's not fun for him, he was just good at it. He had a neat niche making kids dinosaur piggy banks using a CNC router with MDF.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:36
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This idea that every hobby you have is supposed to make money, that you need to endlessly hustle, it's totally gross.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:39
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z0331 posted:If you're referring to the video I posted that's not DIY, it's for Thomas Moser, a high-end furniture maker. "Hand made" = not done by a bunch of machines on an assembly line. If you think you're getting individually fit hand carved stuff you're deluding yourself.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:50
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:You don't have to look much further than this thread to see that there's a definite phenomenon of hobbyists thinking 'real', 'professional' woodworking is when you take seven months to painstakingly hand chisel and plane a reproduction Federal desk, what's CAD  at the first line for sureA good friend I used to share studio space with is absolutely crushing regional craft markets with his art and making a good living off it which is the most important thing but yea, he puts 1-3 fish on some stainless steel backsplash and is really loving good at it and then repeats it forever, never having enough time to do the art he really wants to do which is actually loving amazing but is too priceless to sell. pseudanonymous posted:This idea that every hobby you have is supposed to make money, that you need to endlessly hustle, it's totally gross.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:50
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pseudanonymous posted:This idea that every hobby you have is supposed to make money, that you need to endlessly hustle, it's totally gross. I think the definition of 'hobby' is antithetical to making money, so
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Dec 28, 2021 17:56
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Oh totally. I got that a lot with my sewing. I make most of my upper-body wear myself because when you're a fairly tall woman finding fitting, decent quality clothes is just hell. And almost everyone says to me 'why don't you start a business because a lot of people are looking for well-made clothes'. Even if I wanted to (which I don't, because I loving detest sewing) you're faced with the reality that people think your prices are going to be lower than even loving H&M, which is just lmao Art is even worse. 'Why be an artist if you're not a commercially successful artist?', because maybe I do things because I enjoy doing them? Let me just gently caress around making prints without having to be the next Banksy. Everything you do having to be turned into an income-stream, just loving no.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:59
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About ten years ago I was doing sewing crafts and selling on Etsy (back when it wasn't just an outlet for Aliexpress). All I really cared about was that I made enough money to cover equipment and materials plus the materials for the stuff I was making for myself, friends, and family. I hope to get good enough with wood to do the same - basically just make my hobby into a zero cost thing.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:00
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:
That backsplash sounds cool, got a pic?
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Dec 28, 2021 18:00
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Yooper posted:That backsplash sounds cool, got a pic? Here are a couple, hes crushing it the last couple of years. People really want to spend money right now he says. In the right lighting they look so good. He makes a bunch of single pieces like the flowers and feathers for the booth walkups. He hangs his angle grinders on hooks because hes tired of explaining what an angle grinder is to potential customers. He will install on site (easy enough if you know what to do) for a nice upsell, people almost always take him up on this. He does better if he prices his work higher. I've learned a lot about what it takes to be a successful artist from him. This qualifies for the woodworking thread because there is wood in the walls in one of the pics.    
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Dec 28, 2021 18:36
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Stultus Maximus posted:About ten years ago I was doing sewing crafts and selling on Etsy (back when it wasn't just an outlet for Aliexpress). All I really cared about was that I made enough money to cover equipment and materials plus the materials for the stuff I was making for myself, friends, and family. I hope to get good enough with wood to do the same - basically just make my hobby into a zero cost thing. That's my goal too, be good enough and sell enough to pay for materials and the odd tool. I was very happy when I first started really selling things with purpose, and did the math to find out I had paid for my table saw. Make gifts for friends and family and enjoy the occasional craft fair. I got a tax ID and everything so I can be an honest small time crafter, but I'm about to do my papers for the year and I am not exactly contributing a lot to the state funding.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:37
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:Here are a couple, hes crushing it the last couple of years. People really want to spend money right now he says. In the right lighting they look so good. He makes a bunch of single pieces like the flowers and feathers for the booth walkups. He hangs his angle grinders on hooks because hes tired of explaining what an angle grinder is to potential customers. He will install on site (easy enough if you know what to do) for a nice upsell, people almost always take him up on this. He does better if he prices his work higher. I've learned a lot about what it takes to be a successful artist from him. This qualifies for the woodworking thread because there is wood in the walls in one of the pics. Your friend deserves to be crushing it, because these are legit amazing. Where is he and what is his pricing?
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Dec 28, 2021 18:43
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pseudanonymous posted:This idea that every hobby you have is supposed to make money, that you need to endlessly hustle, it's totally gross. Exactly! I really hate this mentality. Not everything you do should be monetized. Like...I've got a job and skills that make me money. Why would I turn something that I do for personal enjoyment/relaxation into work? If I had to be overly concerned with efficiency and time management in the shop, it would just stress me out and suck the fun out.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:55
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I do occasionally go into a local maker's boutique or something and see charcuterie boards that are clearly 1/2 a bf of walnut cut into a curvy shape, sanded, rounded over, and oiled selling for $75 and think I must be in the wrong business, but I don't have the stomach for trying to do something like that. I don't want to ruin a perfectly good hobby by making it a boring job.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:57
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I had a mild disagreement with my wife when I mentioned that I wouldn't mind just selling the stuff I make for the cost of materials because she fundamentally couldnt understand why I didnt want to make money from it. The second I'd start trying to make money is the second my enjoyment and the reason I do this stuff goes out the window. If I want to make a dumb floating table I can make a dumb floating table. I don't need to make sure I'm making something people will want to buy at a price point they will buy it at.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:29
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I like turning bowls but a man can only use so many bowls, and his friends will only accept so many free bowls, and the trees keep falling down and oh God there are logs in my car. I should start an Etsy shop.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:49
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Depending on the hobby, doing some sales can help a lot with continuing the hobby. I do relief prints and started selling them (because what is the point of doing prints otherwise), but it was solely just a self-sustaining thing until one gangbuster month and oops now I have a big etching press in the mail.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:02
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It certainly helps justify the cost of the hobby. And speaking of Rockler plastic jigs and money, I've said it before but man... I am just deeply annoyed at how much time, money, and effort I spent buying or building power tool jigs and guides under the impression that I was incapable of cutting straight by hand, when what I really had to do was switch to left-handed work.
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Dec 28, 2021 20:11
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