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The Matrix both tells and shows; for example, when Morpheus shows Neo the exposition he is talking about on a TV, or how the prophecies that are discussed at length are shown on-screen when they come true.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:36
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The biggest missed opportunity in The Matrix 4 was not having a scene where Trinity makes out with Persephone to show her passion for Neo.
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Dec 28, 2021 15:40
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Boxman posted:IIRC, The Matrix was one of the first big DVD successes; it was reasonable to write a sequel knowing that people would watch it multiple times. That's not reasonable at all, given that this is currently a theatrical release that people are paying money to watch - once - while risking their lives. Sounds like 'marketing' to me. Increasing dvd sales. Also, what is the benefit of treating things (like the entire machine war plot point that led to the creation of the nu-matrix) as "clues"? That information isn't obscure to the characters. The Sati character ostensibly has detailed blueprints of the Anomaleum in her brain, and relays that information to all the protagonists. If that's purposefully hidden from the audience... well, what's the benefit?
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Dec 28, 2021 15:56
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I watched it in theaters. I had no problems paying attention to dialogue. I think some people may just have some distractions at home. Also it’s the 4th movie in series. You probably should be expected to have some ideas about the past ones. The Architect for instance is a major character in the sequels. People probably should be aware of him and his well known going in.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:06
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:I think the movie did kind of do the social media is the new matrix thing i.e. with the emphasis on feelings. Giving you what you want but just out of reach, the dopamine hits of your newsfeed. The therapist is woke consumerism Agreed. This is my take on it too. The coffee shop meetup is a good social demonstration of this too. Plus as pointed out by others he’s called the analyst, not therapist. So in charge of analyzing human emotions to maximize power/profit. This is what powers the modern internet.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:31
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I enjoyed the film well enough, but still came away with the feeling that they probably shouldn't have made it without Hugo Weaving involved. I think it would have made that character work more for me.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:33
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checkplease posted:I watched it in theaters. I had no problems paying attention to dialogue. I think some people may just have some distractions at home. Challenge: without consulting a wiki, and using only information in Matrix 4, briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4. Challenge 2: without consulting a wiki, and using only information in Matrix 4, describe the backstory of Matrix 4 in as much detail as possible.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Challenge: without consulting a wiki, and using only information in Matrix 4, briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4. what's the point of that?
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Dec 28, 2021 16:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's not reasonable at all, given that this is currently a theatrical release that people are paying money to watch - once - while risking their lives. Sounds like 'marketing' to me. I wish that we got some big numbers on who watched this how. I watched the first half of this streaming at home on decent TV and the second half of this on a smartphone, because I am a fool. I think that there wouldn't be anywhere near as much discussion of this movie without it streaming at home on a service that millions of Americans have bundled with their phone or internet plans.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:53
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I also rewatched the first 3 films before this movie. I assume much of the audience would too. It seems Lana assumed this. And hbo as they pushed all 3 films on the front page of their service. I guess it’s a directing style choice. You assume the audience comes in with knowledge or you don’t. Or maybe there’s a middle ground. But clearly this one assumes you watched and remember the other 3. Maybe this is a miss in marketing.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:56
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SMG isn't ridiculous for suggesting that people shouldn't have to have encyclopedic knowledge of the Matrix lore in order to understand the fourth movie, 23 years after the previous film in the series.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:56
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egon_beeblebrox posted:what's the point of that? To see if people are able to briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4, and/or go into additional detail, without consulting a wiki.
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Dec 28, 2021 16:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:To see if people are able to briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4, and/or go into additional detail, without consulting a wiki. Or recalling previous films
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Dec 28, 2021 17:02
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I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect people to be familiar with the plot in a sequel to a long dormant franchise. Hell, Twin Peaks pulled it off. I’m having a hard time swallowing the “actually the movie is good because it’s intentionally bad” takes, though!
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Dec 28, 2021 17:04
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Did people here not rewatch any of the films here before the 4th one? I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest people may not have all the knowledge needed after 20 years. But the film wants you to have remembered them. And all of the films are available a single click away on hbo max. This is the age of streaming.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:09
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I think if you're going to have the second half of the movie hinge on action scenes, it's quite reasonable to critique the film for the action being perfunctory, not very tense, and honestly rather cheap. Say what you will about the other sequels, they brought big, imaginative, interesting action set-pieces that this film does not. I don't think it's meta-commentary, either. The first half of the film is meta-commentary, i would've enjoyed a film that stuck to that. If Neo's done fighting, i'm fine with a film that doesn't go for action scenes but finishes with realization, or a debate with Neil Patrick Harris, or whatever.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:12
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Idk if styling itself as a diegetic corporate reboot/fanfic makes it good per se but it's very funny
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Dec 28, 2021 17:13
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My theory is someone’s understanding of the matrix canon and/or the lore of the 4th movie is unrelated to their enjoyment of resurrections. I watched the first 3 films + animatrix in the months leading up to release. I watched resurrections at home with subtitles to understand the dialogue, even rewinding to rewatch something if I couldn’t parse the first time. I thought the movie sucked. I watched with one family member who only watched the first movie years ago and they also thought it sucked. I also watched with another family member who considers themselves a matrix fan but didn’t even know there was a 3rd movie. They really liked resurrections. The movie hinges largely on whether you thought the on-screen romance was compelling or not. If you don’t, the latter 50% just seems like a convoluted waste of time.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:13
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No consumers were notified that Matrix Resurrections requires detailed knowledge of matrix lore to be comprehensible. A significant portion of the audience will consequently be watching this as their first-ever matrix film, and will have no clue what's going on. This obvious fact is even brought up in the movie, when the character of Tiffany is only vaguely aware of the Matrix videogames. So she effectively pauses the film, goes home, plays three complete videogames (which would take at least several days), and then returns to the narrative.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:13
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Yeah you right, gonna go bone up on my Matrix lore by rewatching 6 or so hours of the prequels in order to watch the most recent effort.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:13
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I mean surely you would have watched the first two lord of the rings before the return of the king. Or the first two starwars. Or the first two seasons of twin peaks. Or some marvel movies before endgame. I think it’s fair to criticize the marketing though for not warning people more to rewatch. And I would agree that lack of past matrix knowledge is going to hurt the watchability of this film.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:23
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HorseLord posted:Maybe the first half of the film makes that point and the second half proves it by serving as an example. True; once neo regains his memory and tries to recreate the past, the movie sours.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:23
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Can we get the Wachowskis and Hideo Kojima to team up for a project? A game, a movie, an HBO series, a fizzy drink brand, whatever. In my mind, they feel like kindred spirits. Not the same, but... compatible? They're already fans of each other's work, which has come up in interviews, and seems like the least surprising thing ever.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:25
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So she effectively pauses the film, goes home, plays three complete videogames (which would take at least several days), and then returns to the narrative. Trinity confirmed casual
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Dec 28, 2021 17:26
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checkplease posted:Did people here not rewatch any of the films here before the 4th one? I didn't. However I watched the OG Matrix probably 10 times before the sequel and a couple of times since, so that was no problem. I've watched Reloaded twice and Revolutions twice, the last time was over a decade ago. I didn't hate this movie but I felt the second half was "junk food cinema" which is not a term I would apply to all of the OG Matrix and most of the sequels. Robot Hobo posted:Can we get the Wachowskis and Hideo Kojima to team up for a project? A game, a movie, an HBO series, a fizzy drink brand, whatever. In my mind, they feel like kindred spirits. Not the same, but... compatible? They're already fans of each other's work, which has come up in interviews, and seems like the least surprising thing ever. Yeah really the only thing I'm certain of is that movies aren't the way to tell the story of the Matrix anymore.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:27
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checkplease posted:I mean surely you would have watched the first two lord of the rings before the return of the king. Or the first two starwars. Or the first two seasons of twin peaks. Or some marvel movies before endgame. You're talking about multiple different phenomena as if they're the same thing. Empire Strikes Back functions just fine as a standalone film. A basic joke in the film was that it is "Episode V" of a then-nonexistent series. As a contrast, the LOTR films are akin to Reloaded/Revolutions in that they are obviously just one extremely long film that got chopped into segments for practical and moneymaking purposes. Disney-Marvel is an elaborate marketing strategy where the films themselves are functionally advertisements. Twin Peaks is a television series. Of these, Matrix 4 most closely resembles the Disney-Marvel approach, in that it literally asks you to go back and (legally) obtain copies of Matrixes 1-3 - which themselves include references to Animatrix, Enter The Matrix, etc. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 17:35
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Matrix 4 is Trainspotting 2 in a world without Spud.
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Dec 28, 2021 17:57
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Yeah really the only thing I'm certain of is that movies aren't the way to tell the story of the Matrix anymore. You know I've always felt as bad as Enter The Matrix, the Wachowski's were kind of ahead of the game with realizing (and capitalizing) on that with the Animatrix, Enter the Matrix, etc. Console/PC movie licensed games were still way more of a thing then and while there were some good (even great) ones, the majority were still "You're [protagonist], platform or shoot your way through these corridors". Like Enter the Matrix having footage that's only in it and being an actual part of the canon in such a big way was impressive for a move licensed game. And then there's the Matrix Online game too. Years later you still had the people running CSI thinking people were come in droves to the CSI Second Life each week to get pre-show clues about the episode's story  Like I dug this newest movie a lot to the point where I'd love to see more Matrix stuff but I don't need to see Neo or Trinity anymore.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:08
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Animatrix 2 when
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Dec 28, 2021 18:20
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checkplease posted:I mean surely you would have watched the first two lord of the rings before the return of the king. Or the first two starwars. Or the first two seasons of twin peaks. Or some marvel movies before endgame. ah yes, those movies that are a year or two apart from one another. Much like the Matrix 3 to Matrix 4. Makes perfect sense. Thanks.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:23
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I must admit I did not expect the argument of "how dare you ask me to remember things"
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Dec 28, 2021 18:32
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ImpAtom posted:I must admit I did not expect the argument of "how dare you ask me to remember things" its honestly amazing that we're here Ichabod Tane posted:SMG isn't ridiculous for suggesting that people shouldn't have to have encyclopedic knowledge of the Matrix lore in order to understand the fourth movie, 23 years after the previous film in the series. he is however ridiculous for saying he didn't understand the first 5 mintues of the movie it because it had exposition in it, and also that it didn't have enough exposition for him to make sense of the visuals HorseLord fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 18:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Challenge: without consulting a wiki, and using only information in Matrix 4, briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4. Pfft I'd like to watch the Wachowskis try. Fake edit: As if we all didn't just witness that attempt.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:40
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man nurse posted:I’m having a hard time swallowing the “actually the movie is good because it’s intentionally bad” takes, though! nobody has said anything like that what has happened is a few people have said things that amount to "this movie is bad because when i didn't pay attention i didn't understand anything" and other people have said "that's dumb of you"
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Dec 28, 2021 18:42
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Ichabod Tane posted:ah yes, those movies that are a year or two apart from one another. Much like the Matrix 3 to Matrix 4. Makes perfect sense. Thanks. So thats even more of a call for you to rewatch them then and even more your own fault as you recognize the time length and difficulty of memory.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:48
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Nybble posted:Animatrix 2 when See that's why I don't think the Matrix 4 is some kind of dumpster fire or flaming pile of crap or whatever. It didn't kill the Matrix, I was just sorta blando on where they took the story but would like Lana and the gang to take a shot at it again in another way. I liked a lot of the ideas and I really did enjoy the first half a lot - replacing the clubbing/hacking/counterculture black leather with sad-sack midlife techbro social media angst. Very Gen X, very on my level. But it went nowhere beyond "true love" which, I'm sorry, felt like fairy tale poo poo. I felt like they just didn't crack the second half of the script.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:49
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"You see Neo", Trinity said, "the real Matrix was the friends we made along the way".
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Dec 28, 2021 18:49
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:See that's why I don't think the Matrix 4 is some kind of dumpster fire or flaming pile of crap or whatever. It didn't kill the Matrix, I was just sorta blando on where they took the story but would like Lana and the gang to take a shot at it again in another way. I liked a lot of the ideas and I really did enjoy the first half a lot - replacing the clubbing/hacking/counterculture black leather with sad-sack midlife techbro social media angst. Very Gen X, very on my level. But it went nowhere beyond "true love" which, I'm sorry, felt like fairy tale poo poo. I felt like they just didn't crack the second half of the script. I for one can't believe that The Matrix went to true love fairytale poo poo. Can you imagine if the first film ended with the protagonist being revived from the dead by true love's first kiss?
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Dec 28, 2021 18:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Challenge: without consulting a wiki, and using only information in Matrix 4, briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4. this is really easy because the movie explained all of it, which you said is bad, even though you also said its bad because it doesn't there was a man called neo who was important in a war against machines who enslaved humanity in a simulated reality. one of his friends was a man called morpheus who first freed him from the matrix and then became the leader of the underground city of free humans, which was called zion. neo's enemy was a program called agent smith and neo's wife was a woman called trinity. neo and trinity died fighting to form a truce between the humans and the machines. they succeeded and the free humans entered a new time of prosperity. the consequences of ending the war lead to an energy crisis in the machine society which caused them to have a civil war. eventually a faction containing the movie's villain took over and they solved the energy crisis with a more manipulative version of the matrix which also kept a ressurected neo and trinity in a state where they could be studied without them becoming a threat to the machines again. one of the ways they did this was to convince neo that he was insane and that his life was actually the plot of a videogame series he made 20 years ago, complete with giving him matrix developer tools on his office computer to prove it. his bored lunch break experiment mixing and matching characteristics of the story drew the attention of the resistance and the movie starts. i remember all of this because it was in the movie and i watched the movie. i hope this helps you supermechagodzilla
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Dec 28, 2021 18:55
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Jay-V posted:The movie hinges largely on whether you thought the on-screen romance was compelling or not. If you don’t, the latter 50% just seems like a convoluted waste of time. I think this is very right, and it's one of the things that so firmly roots it as a sequel. Resurrections doesn't give you much to go on between the two of them, but I do think its a reasonably well built romance that spanned the previous movies. Interestingly, setting aside the emotional stakes, I'm not sure the actual plot relies too much on having an encyclopedic knowledge of what happened before. The movie really doesn't have much faith in its audience to remember even the most obvious cues from the original trilogy - cutting to Weaving when Groff shouts "Mr. Anderson" is some real hand-holding, beat-you-over-the-head storytelling.
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Dec 28, 2021 18:57
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