Mantis42 posted:

sounds like they should've just let the girlfriend murderer be extradited

Some Guy TT posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1475275380995022854

KomradeX posted:

Just saw this on Facebook and I assume there's a lot being unsaid by them about why this actually happened

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1475494307197079553?s=20

my god putin has murdered one of his chief propagandists just like the wily slav he is!!!

thats not a joke read the replies lol

Comrade Koba posted:

is this the “citizen journalist” who protested lockdowns by breaking into a hospital and livestreaming dying patients without their consent?

KomradeX posted:

Just saw this on Facebook and I assume there's a lot being unsaid by them about why this actually happened

quote:

The death of a young Chinese man who said he was bullied for being "too effeminate" has sparked discussions in the country about gender norms. But experts fear little will change while the Chinese state continues to promote criticism of what it calls "sissy men".

"Boys are supposed to be naughty, fight, and swear. Boys who are too quiet and polite are effeminate and called sissy."

That is what 26-year-old Zhou Peng wrote in an apparent suicide note online, days before he was found dead in eastern Zhejiang Province.

The note also mentioned how he was a child "left behind" in the countryside by his migrant parents, who had moved to the city to work.

But what really resonated with people in China was his description of how he had been bullied.

"I might have just looked a bit like a girl when I was younger, but I dressed 'normally' and didn't attempt to imitate girls," wrote Zhou Peng, a photographer, who also went by the pseudonym Ludaosen.

"Yet I was bullied in school, verbally abused, ostracised, threatened... and called all sorts of insults."

The police did not give out details about his death, saying only that they had ruled out homicide. But to the hundreds of thousands of social media users who shared his 5,000-word letter on the microblogging site Weibo, it appeared to be a tragic case of suicide.

Besides sparking fervent discussions on mental health and bullying, the note also raised questions on what a Chinese man should look like or how he should behave.

"He has a delicate appearance, and a seemingly gentle personality. These are all good points, and yet he was bullied just because they are not in line with traditional masculine ideals," one Weibo user commented.

"How many other boys have been laughed at because of their soft look and soft voice? Who are we to dictate what's acceptable or not - they have done nothing wrong."

Another wrote about how the case brought back "shameful" memories of how he and his classmates incessantly teased a boy they thought was "effeminate" throughout his school years.

"Thinking back, I am so embarrassed. We were just joking around, but it might have caused some real trauma," the poster wrote.

The data on bullying in China is scant, but one paper by the Children and Youth Services Review from 2019, which sent out questionnaires to more than 3,000 youth, found that more that 35% of respondents identified as victims of traditional bullying, while more than 31% said they had been victims of cyberbullying.

The paper added that being male, attending boarding school, low academic performance, and a poor relationship with parents were among the main factors for getting bullied.

No 'sissy men' allowed
An intolerance of supposedly "effeminate" men is not exclusive to Chinese culture. But the Chinese government openly endorses the stance, even actively promotes it.

Earlier this year, the education ministry called on schools to reform their physical education offerings, in a notice with a title that left no doubt about its ultimate goal: The Proposal to Prevent the Feminisation of Male Adolescents.

The text advised recruiting retired athletes and people from sporting backgrounds to help develop sports with a view to "cultivating students' masculinity".

China Strengthens School Physical Education
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Earlier this year, China promoted an education drive to make boys more "manly"
It came months after top political adviser Si Zefu voiced concern that there was a trend among young Chinese males towards "feminisation", which "would inevitably endanger the survival and development of the Chinese nation" unless it was "effectively managed".

Then, in September, China's broadcasting regulator issued a ban on "effeminate" men appearing on TV and video streaming sites - even using a Chinese derogatory term in the process.

Broadcasters must "put an end to sissy men and other abnormal aesthetics" it said in a notice, using the term niangpao, an insult for "effeminate" men.

Dr Wang Shuaishuai, a digital culture expert at University of Amsterdam, told the BBC he was "shocked" when he saw the term written in official communication.

"Now, young people are going to think that it's okay to use this gender slur to attack others," he said. "Because if the government condones this kind of language, who else can say that it is wrong to use it in school?"

Wolf Warriors
It's no coincidence that China's ramped up masculinity drive is taking place alongside President Xi Jinping's aggressive form of international diplomacy, experts told the BBC.

"When you are creating a feeling of 'us against the world', getting into fights with countries around the world, aggressively posturing and promoting policies for 'self sufficiency', it doesn't jibe with soft metro-sexuality," said Dr Jonathan Sullivan, director of China programmes at University of Nottingham's Asia Research Institute.

Xi Jinping
IMAGE SOURCE,AFP
Image caption,
China's masculinity drive coincides with President Xi Jinping's aggressive form of diplomacy, experts say
In a shift from former leader Deng Xiaoping's strategy of keeping a low profile, China has in recent years adopted what observers have dubbed "wolf warrior diplomacy".

Taking its name from the eponymous Rambo-like blockbuster films, in which elite Chinese special forces take on American-led mercenaries, the strategy is characterised by Chinese diplomats using confrontational, at times even abusive, rhetoric.

This approach culminated in a defiant speech delivered in July, when Mr Xi warned that China would not be "bullied" or "oppressed" by foreign powers.

Dr Sullivan said: "Xi's demand for a robust national posture, and the foregrounding of a harder expression of masculinity, are connected."

At the same time, the state's targeting of "effeminate" men on TV comes amid a wider crackdown on celebrities and big tech - both of which have incredible influence on China's young.

Once again, say observers, this has to do with Mr Xi's broader agenda of moulding his version of new China - one that is "socialist with Chinese characteristics", with no room for seemingly unsavoury foreign influences.

"Many of China's biggest young male stars in recent years have challenged traditional masculine ideals, thanks in large part to the influence of Korean pop," said Dr Wang.

"They might wear earrings or makeup, and young fans loved them for it. But Chinese society is still very conservative in general, and the government wants to maintain that."

Young male celebrities such as idol group TFBoys and singer-actor Lu Han, celebrated for their fresh-faced, delicate features, have millions of eager fans who go to extremes to show off their love for them.

Lu Han
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Celebrities like Lu Han have challenged traditional masculine ideals
And since many of these popular "effeminate" celebrities appear on video streaming sites owned by big tech - as opposed to state TV - they become "obvious targets", Dr Wang added.

"Gender in this case can also be seen as another part of China's ongoing campaign against big tech, which the government sees as a threat to its ability to keep tabs on its citizens," he said.

But while the likes of celebrities may have to rework their image for the time being, Dr Wang's bigger fear is for the safety of the everyday citizen.

"Gender-based violence, harassment and bullying will likely increase, because the government has essentially made it okay to do so," he said. "It's terribly sad."

Lyndon LaRouche posted:

Amnesty International is a loving joke.

CaptainACAB posted:

I still don't know if the CPC is actually hyper competent or if neoliberal capitalism is simply so self destructive that anyone who can avoid sawing off their own dick with a jab saw will win by default.

crepeface posted:

bbc: one guy killed himself -> it was because he was bullied -> why ccp ban sissymen -> wolf warrior bad

the western tradition of logic and reason passed down from aristotle

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59576108

Mantis42 posted:

sounds like they should've just let the girlfriend murderer be extradited

CaptainACAB posted:

the pathology of the HK bourgeoisie is nuts man. like, they are chinese, yet also they hate the chinese. its like they think if they're racist enough, the queen will come back and cast a spell to make them all honorary aryans.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

His twitter account was taken private, but I found this off a google search:

Muscle Wizard posted:

Ghost Leviathan posted:

It's like gusanos, there's a specific mindset of colonised elites that see themselves as The Good Ones elevated above the rest to rule them, as well as being at least in theory part of the class who benefits from capitalism. And liberals are absolute suckers for their stories because they have the bourgeoisie presentation that liberals are trained to be comfortable with while also being convenient token nonwhites who are obviously all about that respectable reasonable moderate capitalism.

crepeface posted:

i'm sure all the biggest morons are the ones that get platformed on western media but idk how prevalent the attitude actually is. i know there was a general stereotype of mainlanders being rude and unmannered in the way that "new money" is and the language difference didn't help. HK losing its unique position as an entry into the mainland and its subsequent economic power dropping on the global scale along with leftover british bullshit like the horrible housing market and getting the same "market good!" education most of the west did is a big problem.

a government program to seize and develop land would help a lot... but i wonder how it would be perceived (by HKers)

Centrist Committee posted:

how are you fonts so jagged my dude

Ghost Leviathan posted:

There's absolutely nothing in the world more whiny and monstrous than a bougie class losing their privilege

crepeface posted:

i'm sure all the biggest morons are the ones that get platformed on western media but idk how prevalent the attitude actually is. i know there was a general stereotype of mainlanders being rude and unmannered in the way that "new money" is and the language difference didn't help. HK losing its unique position as an entry into the mainland and its subsequent economic power dropping on the global scale along with leftover british bullshit like the horrible housing market and getting the same "market good!" education most of the west did is a big problem.

a government program to seize and develop land would help a lot... but i wonder how it would be perceived (by HKers)

Zohar posted:

at least among moderately well-off people it is really loving prevalent. e.g. in 2015 there was a big protest by the localist groups because the government had made noises about giving residency to a 12-year-old mainlander who'd been living in the city undocumented since he was 3 (the Siu Yau-wai case), they wanted him to be deported and eventually he was forced to leave the city. stuff calling mainlanders bugs and locusts, anchor baby scares and the like were pretty normal since way before occupy central. my personal experience was that the last time I was in HK in 2017-18 one of literally the first things I saw after leaving the airport was a guy screaming at someone calling him a mainlander oval office, and when I was still involved in anti-china stuff at that time I had dinners with activists who would call mainlanders monkeys, dirty and uncivilised etc

Southpaugh posted:

HKers sound like a typical post-colonial british comprador class.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

That's probably because that's exactly what they are. I'm reminded of those 'chud safaris' that only ever talk to the owners of businesses and farms and never to the people who actually work on them, while claiming to be talking about the 'heartland'. Bougie journalists, that is almost all of them, only ever choose to talk to fellow bougie if they can help it.

Zohar posted:

at least among moderately well-off people it is really loving prevalent. e.g. in 2015 there was a big protest by the localist groups because the government had made noises about giving residency to a 12-year-old mainlander who'd been living in the city undocumented since he was 3 (the Siu Yau-wai case), they wanted him to be deported and eventually he was forced to leave the city. stuff calling mainlanders bugs and locusts, anchor baby scares and the like were pretty normal since way before occupy central. my personal experience was that the last time I was in HK in 2017-18 one of literally the first things I saw after leaving the airport was a guy screaming at someone calling him a mainlander oval office, and when I was still involved in anti-china stuff at that time I had dinners with activists who would call mainlanders monkeys, dirty and uncivilised etc

Centrist Committee posted:

how are you fonts so jagged my dude

crepeface posted:

bbc: one guy killed himself -> it was because he was bullied -> why ccp ban sissymen -> wolf warrior bad

the western tradition of logic and reason passed down from aristotle

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59576108

Agrajag posted:

this is funny cause i guess these motherfuckers arent aware of chinese opera and the long rear end practice of men dressing up as women

endocriminologist posted:

actually if anyone has some links on transgender care in China that’d be neat

quote:

China’s labor law provides that workers may not be discriminated against in employment based on their sex. The law also provides that workers seeking employment shall not be discriminated against based on their gender. Although these statutes do not explicitly include gender expression as a protected status, the court outlined in its opinion that discrimination based on sex is illegal and people who have legally changed their gender can bring a claim based on that basis. The court held that since the employee had legally changed her gender to female, her employer was obligated to treat her the same as other female employees. Since she was not treated the same as other female employees based on her transgender status, the court held that this was discrimination based on her sex. In addition to the verdict, the court also called for “tolerance” and said society must “respect and protect the personality, dignity and legitimate rights of transgender people.”

Nonsense posted:

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1475846800225751041?s=20

Xi is dancing on this man's grave

CaptainACAB posted:

the pathology of the HK bourgeoisie is nuts man. like, they are chinese, yet also they hate the chinese. its like they think if they're racist enough, the queen will come back and cast a spell to make them all honorary aryans.

DiscountDildos posted:

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3051544f30677a6333566d54/share.html

cgtn story about a surgeon in shanghai

Also there was that Chinese Supreme Court case last year where they ruled in favor of a trans woman who got fired after reassignment surgery

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/court-ruling-points-to-expanded-lgbt-58507/

Seems like there's a ways to go but also positive signs here and there

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/edolinsky/status/1476182864152649728

Some Guy TT posted:

do they have a rationalization for why they needed to do this that isnt literally just yea we love nazis

Agrajag posted:

this is funny cause i guess these motherfuckers arent aware of chinese opera and the long rear end practice of men dressing up as women

dead gay comedy forums posted:

to be quite fair, this is a topic that has its problems (speaking as a sissy-dude-liker-too)

unfortunately, communism at the time (late 30s) lapsed into a faulty understanding on homosexuality, made manifest especially on the legal sense (such as the criminalization of sodomy in the stalinist period criminal code, when the leninist period explicitly abolished its criminalization), due to the reasoning of some really weak-rear end "marxists" about the subject, which lead to the conclusion that homosexuality was a bourgeois affectation and thus counter-revolutionary. It was a bad conclusion that created one hell of a doctrinarian attitude, to our detriment.

It's complicated in its history. The original problem that actually led revolutionaries to give it consideration was the Epstein type. At the time, however, we used to call that sort of abuse pederasty, which kept more or less the context from the classical antique usage, "boy-loving" - paedophilia as a word for the abuse hasn't come up yet - which, unfortunately, came to be confused with sodomite, practitioner of anal intercourse. The confusion cultivated by religious moralism created thus the notion that homosexual men are inclined to be abusers of male minors of age.

Of course, great Marxist thinkers (such as Lenin), assisted by the emerging thinking of psychology combined with Marxism, quickly and effectively argued that homosexual relations by themselves were never the problem, but rather, the difference of power was constitutive of abuse, thus pederasty as strictly such became seen as a bourgeois depravity: wealthy and powerful men abusing younger, vulnerable ones. Pederasty was seen a further proof of how capitalism degenerates and debases humanity. I'm reproducing the use of the word like that because now I want you to read back and replace "pederasty" with "pedophilia". That is what they tried to convey. To our eyes, it reads much better, doesn't it?

However, the concept and the word was too polluted, also due to its differentiation to rape (which was to women, minor or not). In the cultural aggregate, pederasty is sodomy, sodomy is pederasty. The communist inclination of the New Revolutionary Man required the realization of class consciousness and the triumph over bourgeois depravity. So, some "marxists" started to propose that actually, homosexuality itself is a manifestation of bourgeois sentiments, arguing that it led to counter-revolutionary behavior (even though the socialist fraternal kiss was a Huge Thing, lol). And to our detriment, this caught on. It became a "translated prejudice", a failure of revolutionary sentiment to properly deliver a revolutionary morality to conservative habits: people reproduced the problem, using Marxist words.

This also got to China, naturally. It seems that as of late, on the national government level, China has been doing a Cuba and picking up the slack in that sense, being more aggressive against constitutional violation of civic rights at the municipal and provincial level, which is great. The Marxist self-critiques about the treatment of homosexuality and transgender people has been a massive successful leap in terms of thought, and being by definition the main bastion of Marxism in the world right now, I don't doubt that China can overcome that

Some Guy TT posted:

do they have a rationalization for why they needed to do this that isnt literally just yea we love nazis