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Kalit posted:I'm assuming this is the study for a lot of the 5 day vaccinated/7 day unvaccinated talk: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/breakthrough-sars-cov-2-clear-quickly-less-likely-to-spread-infection/ quote:
Bolding my own. Doesn't look like a slam dunk case to take the unnecessary risk.
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Dec 29, 2021 18:56
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:People with vaccines ARE getting covid, going to the hospital, experiencing long covid, and dying. Pointing this out doesn't mean the vaccines are useless, just that there is more the government can do. It is a tiny fraction, though. The fatality rate for someone who is boosted is 0.01% and every single one of those 0.01% was over age 70. Unvaccinated people are also 13x more likely to get infected and 21x more likely to experience symptoms - and those figures are only for 2 doses and not counting boosters. If the U.S. had a 99% vaccination rate for all adults in June 2021, then we would have reduced the total deaths by 98.2% and hospitalizations by 91% from then until now. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 19:17
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If the unvaccinated are the primary drivers of covid spread, then it definitely seems like the government needs to do more to get them vaccinated beyond just asking pretty please with sugar on top.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:20
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Fister Roboto posted:If the unvaccinated are the primary drivers of covid spread, then it definitely seems like the government needs to do more to get them vaccinated beyond just asking pretty please with sugar on top. That would require infringing on FREEDUMBS and we simply cannot do that. Pay no attention to the fact that the unvaccinated on a regular loving basis infringe on people's freedoms by openly spreading a loving deadly plague to vulnerable populations
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Dec 29, 2021 19:27
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Mellow Seas posted:Look, I’m pretty pissed that my office is making me go back Monday. It seems insane to me, to not at least wait a couple of weeks for more data on Omicron. But that’s not even “capitalism” because the company is doing fine financially without open offices; it’s just the petty tyranny of the management busybody, and that is something that does not require capitalism to function and vice versa. If only you and your fellow workers owned your workplace and could put covid policies to a democratic vote rather than be forced to submit to the whims of the owning class.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:29
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TulliusCicero posted:That would require infringing on FREEDUMBS and we simply cannot do that. It sure would be nice is the federal government did something about it. Maybe enforce vaccines for domestic travel? Or not create loopholes in OSHA mandates? Or even provide direct payment for the vaccinated? But this is a state level matter unfortunately.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:29
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socialsecurity posted:This is just straight up dangerous lies at this point, you have numbers of the "same rate of infections" between vaccinated and unvaccinated? punishedkissinger posted:is this backed up by actual data or ? small butter posted:Source? Do y’all like follow the news? There’s been a new variant called Omicron. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/18/omicron-variant-denmark/ quote:Denmark’s data shows people with two doses to be just as vulnerable to omicron infection as the unvaccinated.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:44
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Wang Commander posted:Infections and therefore spread seem to be occurring pretty much at the same rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated now. Actually containing covid is decoupled from vaccination until we get variant boosters (late 2022 if they're considered worth it, which no one seems to think at this point) Maybe the NUMBERS are similar (daily infections), but given that the majority of people are now vaccinated the rates of infection are far higher for the unvaccinated. And looking at the NYC numbers the rates aren't even close.
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Dec 29, 2021 19:49
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Bolding my own. Doesn't look like a slam dunk case to take the unnecessary risk. Oh yea, I 100% am not excusing the CDC's change in guidelines based on this of course. I was just answering punishedkissinger's question about the 7 days being based on actual data or not. Fister Roboto posted:If the unvaccinated are the primary drivers of covid spread, then it definitely seems like the government needs to do more to get them vaccinated beyond just asking pretty please with sugar on top. TBH, it largely depends on SCOTUS's ruling next month about the regularly test or vaccinated mandate affecting companies with more than 100 employees. If they uphold that mandate, hopefully it will make a substantial difference in getting more people vaccinated. On top of that, I expect more mandates would be announced that would be less likely to be struck down too. Kalit fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 19:57
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kater posted:Do y’all like follow the news? There’s been a new variant called Omicron. Yes, in a population with high vaccination rates and a small population of unvaxxed, more confirmed covid cases are going to be from vaccinated people, because those are the majority of the population. That is not the same across the board, you're not going to see a similar breakdown in the US where vaccination rates are abysmal, nor are Denmark's per capita covid numbers likely to be anything like the US. e: To be clear, it's already known that vaccinated people do contract and spread the virus, and the NPI measures currently in place in most places aren't strong enough to halt or even slow the spread, people should be getting vaxxed and boosted at appropriate intervals, and that the recent CDC guidance is abysmal. But we shouldn't be looking at Denmark's numbers and going "whoa this means the vaccines are useless!" Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 20:08
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camoseven posted:Ok I'll try to convince my toddler and all her toddler friends to get vaccinated. Oh wait.... they can't!!!! stack em like 4 high under a trench coat, they'll vaxx at least one of them repeat x4
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Dec 29, 2021 20:08
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Sell safari style packages where you drive through cities and towns shooting vaccine darts at the unvaccinated from your car.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:11
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Kalit posted:Oh yea, I 100% am not excusing the CDC's change in guidelines based on this of course. I was just answering punishedkissinger's question about the 7 days being based on actual data or not. Is this SC case going to result in a ban requiring any vaccination? It seems like it would fit for our timeline.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:12
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dalstrs posted:Is this SC case going to result in a ban requiring any vaccination? It seems like it would fit for our timeline. They haven't so far. My assumption is they are holding all their cards to strike down abortion. Otherwise I wouldn't be the only voice stating the Supreme Court is illegitimate. vvvv the only way I see it being struck down is more so to gut OSHA’s authority than the vaccine mandates. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 20:15
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dalstrs posted:Is this SC case going to result in a ban requiring any vaccination? It seems like it would fit for our timeline. There is a 1905 SCOTUS ruling in favor of requiring a smallpox vaccination during the smallpox epidemic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/. IANAL, but with any luck, SCOTUS will just point to that and rule it constitutional? If they rule against the mandate, I honestly have no clue how that would impact other vaccine requirement legal challenges. I'm guessing it would depend on the justification for this ruling and how the legal challenge relates to these rulings 
Kalit fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 20:21
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Otherwise I wouldn't be the only voice stating the Supreme Court is illegitimate. It doesn't matter how many people say that, because it means nothing.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:29
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dalstrs posted:Is this SC case going to result in a ban requiring any vaccination? It seems like it would fit for our timeline. They've upheld state vaccine mandates and disallowed religious exemptions from them. However, this is probably a result of a deal between the libs and the conservative judges. Uphold vaccine mandates and we strike down Roe v. Wade 9-0.
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Dec 29, 2021 20:36
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Because you aren't just starting there, you're stopping there, which was my original point? It's thought-terminating and you're deploying it to the same effect here lol Not at all. That's why I said I agreed with Virtualboy's suggestions: - must be vaccinated for air travel - deliver free covid tests - OSHA rules for ventilation to combat Covid - deliver free N95 masks - guidelines to use N95 masks And yeah, I took out "not giving in to the damands of capital" because I think it's vague to the point of uselessness, but sure. Fister Roboto posted:If the unvaccinated are the primary drivers of covid spread, then it definitely seems like the government needs to do more to get them vaccinated beyond just asking pretty please with sugar on top. This is why there is a push for mandates. Is it sufficient? No. Is it more than just asking pretty please with sugar on top? Yes
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Dec 29, 2021 20:39
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I would really appreciate getting (outdoor if possible) fitting assistance with N95 masks because I haven't found any mask that fits me well enough to preventing fogging (sun)glasses. I also think the FDA/customs should consider doing something about counterfeit (K)N95 masks, and the CDC should recommend wearing genuine N95s and provide instructions and guidance on achieving a good fit.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:20
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Good news, I guess? https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1475973360790159366
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Dec 29, 2021 21:22
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kater posted:Do y’all like follow the news? There’s been a new variant called Omicron. I'm not sure what vaccines they use in Denmark and whether this is in line with other studies, but it is HIGHLY unlikely that the vaccinated are just as vulnerable to infection as the unvaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna. With a booster, it's 75% protection against catching Omicron. Did you see the NYT article that details who's catching covid now, when Omicron is the majority of cases? x5 higher for the unvaxxed. Leon said it's like x12, maybe, but just in terms of who's responsible for the vast majority of cases now, it's the unvaccinated. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It is a tiny fraction, though. Do you have a source for "13x more likely to get infected and 21x more likely to experience symptoms"? It's not easy info to find. Is this for Omicron as well?
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Dec 29, 2021 21:32
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mobby_6kl posted:Good news, I guess? While I generally distrust the Hill, the headline appears accurate. also only minimally breaking, it boils down to "Biden is pestered on an outing and confirms previous position" lol
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Dec 29, 2021 21:48
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mobby_6kl posted:Good news, I guess? Sources later report that upon studying the big bag of money into their pockets, the medical team does not recommend any sort of vaccine requirements.
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Dec 29, 2021 21:57
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the_steve posted:Sources later report that upon studying the big bag of money into their pockets, the medical team does not recommend any sort of vaccine requirements. wouldn't the money be in vaccinating people?
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Dec 29, 2021 22:00
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small butter posted:I'm not sure what vaccines they use in Denmark and whether this is in line with other studies, but it is HIGHLY unlikely that the vaccinated are just as vulnerable to infection as the unvaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna. With a booster, it's 75% protection against catching Omicron. The study was only for the alpha and delta strains. Vaccines reduce the chance of infection by 80-88% and if a vaccinated person does get infected, then it reduces their viral load and infectiousness by an additional 41-79%. That is only for two doses. quote:Vaccine effectiveness against susceptibility to infection was 80-88%. For breakthrough infections among vaccinated individuals, the vaccine effectiveness against infectiousness was 41-79%. The overall vaccine effectiveness against transmission was 88.5%. Vaccination provides substantial protection against susceptibility to infection and slightly lower protection against infectiousness given infection, thereby reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to household contacts. quote:Vaccinations are massively reducing the chances of people getting long COVID in two ways: firstly, by reducing the risk of any symptoms by 8 to 10-fold and then by halving the chances of any infection turning into long COVID, if it does happen. quote:When a third dose is administered, the protection from experiencing acute symptoms is reduced by nearly 94% compared to an unvaccinated individual. https://www.qps.com/2021/10/06/covid-19-symptoms-in-the-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated/ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.13.21260393v2
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Dec 29, 2021 22:06
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Herstory Begins Now posted:wouldn't the money be in vaccinating people? No, the real money is in consulting firms that burn through millions of dollars of donor money and are all very well paid putting out puerile, condescending PR media and then kayfabing how surprised they are it didn't work as they count their tax-sheltered donorbux.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:07
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Lib and let die posted:No, the real money is in consulting firms that burn through millions of dollars of donor money and are all very well paid putting out puerile, condescending PR media and then kayfabing how surprised they are it didn't work as they count their tax-sheltered donorbux. I mean that's millions, now how much does another half of a billion of shots cost plus less economic slowdown due to more people being fully vaxxed and boosted cost? p sure the money is hugely, massively on the side of 'just mandate vaccines+boosters for everyone.' the big issue is the, uh, human element preventing that
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Dec 29, 2021 22:17
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The real missed opportunity is the world’s failure to get behind Covax and vaccinate in poor countries where people still want and can’t get the shot. That is huge when you put it next to FAA regs.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:22
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i apologize for posting something that did not meet the scholarly standards of us current events december. i made the foolish mistake of assuming that the subject would be interesting to talk about, but thank you all for making it clear nothing has changed and this remains one of the most toxic threads in the entire forums.
A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 01:34
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A big flaming stink posted:quite an illuminating analysis of the seeming contradiction between growth in jobs and "no one wants to work anymore" I went through this guy's entire thread there and he posts no proof at all?
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Dec 30, 2021 01:45
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A big flaming stink posted:quite an illuminating analysis of the seeming contradiction between growth in jobs and "no one wants to work anymore" Is this just a random Twitter guy? Come on, stink.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:55
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How are u posted:Is this just a random Twitter guy? Come on, stink. It's a pretty well-cited thread actually. You should have a look at it before you make kneejerk judgments like this.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:58
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How are u posted:Is this just a random Twitter guy? Come on, stink. lol his bio literally says "just saying things".
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Dec 30, 2021 01:58
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some dude just saying things who averages like 20 likesMajorian posted:It's a pretty well-cited thread actually. You should have a look at it before you make kneejerk judgments like this. well cited as in he links a handful of loosely related article, none of which are about what he's specifically alleging Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 02:08
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Uh, the PPP program was about maintaining existing employment, not creating new jobs. Companies could do things like stock buybacks if they kept the PPP funds separate, and the condition for loan forgiveness was if the money from the loan went into payroll and they maintained present employment levels. It was a broad-spectrum stimulus bailout to keep companies from downsizing during the pandemic, which...is what they did if they wanted to keep the money (or "keep" it, since they had to spend it). A lot of companies that weren't under payroll pressure just took the money, used it for payroll, and pocketed the equivalent amount from their holdings. This happened a lot because the loans weren't means-tested past some pretty broad employee count criteria. There was also some pretty widely reported fraud from companies making up employee count documentation. Companies didn't have to post new job openings; the entire "due diligence" claim has no relation to the PPP program's requirements. The rest of the thread is nonsensical past that point, which is pretty early on. Look, here's the information about the forgiveness requirements.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:19
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Majorian posted:It's a pretty well-cited thread actually. You should have a look at it before you make kneejerk judgments like this. If you could share those citations that'd be great, I saw nothing he posted that came even close to backing up what he was asserting? Herstory Begins Now posted:some dude just saying things who averages like 20 likes One of which he says not to read that the "headline is enough" which seems par for the course for a great deal of the stuff posted here.
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Dec 30, 2021 02:19
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ctrl+c, ctrl+v, submit post
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Dec 30, 2021 03:16
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A big flaming stink posted:i apologize for posting something that did not meet the scholarly standards of us current events december. i made the foolish mistake of assuming that the subject would be interesting to talk about, but thank you all for making it clear nothing has changed and this remains one of the most toxic threads in the entire forums.  why do you think it’s toxic to question if what you’re posting from a random person is factual? If what you were posting was credible, it would have been easy to provide the evidence
Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Dec 30, 2021 |
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Dec 30, 2021 04:16
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https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1475945165726654470?s=20 The woman who said Bernie Sanders made her skin crawl is an abuser enabler, not surprised.
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Dec 30, 2021 04:22
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Ghislaine Maxwell was found guilty on trafficking
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Dec 30, 2021 04:46
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