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Flytrap posted:I enjoyed it for a while but couldn't bother to finish it. The limited copy paste movesets really kill a lot of replayability, especially since partway through both protags specialize in the same weapon. Sure everyone can wield anything, but they only get to use a boring a limited version of weapons they don't main. DW8XL basically. I like the idea but the execution is just... why bother?
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Dec 30, 2021 03:10
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It's like DW7 but if it only had the Wei campaign. I enjoyed SW5, but you're gonna run outta stuff to do soon enough, and there's a bit too many katana users for my liking, and it's a long while before you even get the characters with the fun weapons, or they're not available a good chunk of the time (hanzo).
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Dec 30, 2021 03:26
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:DW8XL basically. Have you played SW5? Do you like it? I'm looking for more input on it too.
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Dec 30, 2021 14:44
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Morter posted:Have you played SW5? Do you like it? I'm looking for more input on it too. I have not, though I have considered it a couple of times, and I didn't have my head screwed on properly when I posted that stuff about it being like DW8XL because I was in the middle of dumb videogames  What I meant to say was SW5 seems to share DW8XL's mechanic of characters having their own "main" weapon which allows extra (or rather extended) moves after a couple of their regular Charge attacks. You can give them another character's weapon, sure, but they'll miss out on said extra moves for that weapon, so it's just a bit silly to bother with unless they're stuck with a really lovely base-level weapon on a time-based mission or whatever. Although maybe they missed a trick in DW8's case because seeing a fatty like Xu Zhu surfing around on Xingcai's shield and bowling everyone over would have been loving side-splitting. After re-reading how SW5 seems to work with copy-paste basic movesets for the characters, though, it just seems even dumber that switching weapons is an option. Really seems odd for a series which until recently had generally embraced the ludicrous variety afforded by such a huge roster... which SW5 cut down to how few? Does Yoshimoto "I want to play kemari in the capital!" Imagawa even kick that ball around any more? Edit: gently caress it I'm getting the SW5
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Dec 30, 2021 15:41
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Flytrap posted:I enjoyed it for a while but couldn't bother to finish it. The limited copy paste movesets really kill a lot of replayability, especially since partway through both protags specialize in the same weapon. Sure everyone can wield anything, but they only get to use a boring a limited version of weapons they don't main. This was my experience too; for those early bits where everything was new and fun it was pretty rad, but that shine fell off pretty fast, I never finished it either and haven't had much temptation to return to it. In addition to the issue with the movesets, I just found the maps really bland in this entry; I've talked about it before, but it feels much more like just running between a series of waypoints than an actual battle. Like the watershed moment in the battle of Nagashino boils down to "kill 5 cavalry officers" and then you move on It's ok. If I'd bought it on sale I'd say that I'd have had my money's worth of fun from it before putting it down, but full price was a bit much.
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Dec 30, 2021 15:55
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AoT 2 kicks rear end.
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Dec 30, 2021 16:47
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Jack Trades posted:AoT 2 kicks rear end. Huh, i didn't even know they made a second one, but it looks like it's on a decent sale on steam.
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Dec 30, 2021 17:12
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So I can definitely see why Warriors All-Stars got a bad rap, but omg I love both Wang Yuanji's new moveset and weeblord supreme William. You can also tell that this game was made for the Vita.
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Dec 30, 2021 17:20
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Takoluka posted:So I can definitely see why Warriors All-Stars got a bad rap, but omg I love both Wang Yuanji's new moveset and weeblord supreme William. You can also tell that this game was made for the Vita. William has one of the coolest movesets they've made, imho.
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Dec 31, 2021 00:38
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Warriors All Stars was my guilty pleasure title of the Warriors games. It's probably technically not good but the bonkers character movesets and team mechanics and crackspeed combat pace make it fun to play when you really just wanna Warriors at poo poo for an hour or something and don't want to deal with the rough spots that other, better Warriors games occasionally make you deal with like Hyrule Warriors' giant monsters or Pirate Warriors 3's very hit or miss stage design. There's nothing that really makes you just stop and grumble in Warriors All Stars, which is something only really shared by WO3 specifically and helps it go down real smooth even if it's like a 7 out of 10 at best Warriors game.
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Dec 31, 2021 01:09
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Takoluka posted:weeblord supreme William. prePARE toooo DIIIiiieee! 🧚♀️
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Dec 31, 2021 02:34
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Mr. Locke posted:Warriors All Stars was my guilty pleasure title of the Warriors games. It's probably technically not good but the bonkers character movesets and team mechanics and crackspeed combat pace make it fun to play when you really just wanna Warriors at poo poo for an hour or something and don't want to deal with the rough spots that other, better Warriors games occasionally make you deal with like Hyrule Warriors' giant monsters or Pirate Warriors 3's very hit or miss stage design. There's nothing that really makes you just stop and grumble in Warriors All Stars, which is something only really shared by WO3 specifically and helps it go down real smooth even if it's like a 7 out of 10 at best Warriors game. Enemy Characters getting annoying buffs and the darkness maps are the main annoyances I remember running into. Easy to ignore on the lower difficulties, but you start seeing the game’s issues more on the higher difficulties if you ever feel like bumping it up.
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Dec 31, 2021 17:43
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Naotora Ii can gently caress off with her "just straight up doesn't die" buff.
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Dec 31, 2021 18:03
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I was just thinking, it's strange how literally nobody else is doing the same "hack'n'slash in a middle of an open battlefield with control points and mooks following a script" style of game. I wonder if Koei has a patent on that or something. Has ANY other developer does anything in that style? Because I haven't seen anyone else try to do a Musou game and it's really weird.
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Dec 31, 2021 21:24
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Bandai Namco had a Kamen Rider series about it called Battride War and Capcom fiddled around with it with Sengoku BASARA for years.
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Dec 31, 2021 21:26
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Jack Trades posted:I was just thinking, it's strange how literally nobody else is doing the same "hack'n'slash in a middle of an open battlefield with control points and mooks following a script" style of game. I wonder if Koei has a patent on that or something. Around the mid to late 2000's there were tons of them floating around and much like all the Monster Hunter clones none of them were even remotely as good and were miserable failures.
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Dec 31, 2021 21:30
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 Remember when Sega tried to get Creative Assembly to do one?
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Dec 31, 2021 21:31
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There were also the Fate/Extella games, which weren't quite the same but were reasonably solid.
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Dec 31, 2021 21:51
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5-Headed Snake God posted:There were also the Fate/Extella games, which weren't quite the same but were reasonably solid. The first one plays a bit rough around the edges and enemy lieutenants have way too much health.
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Dec 31, 2021 23:08
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Drakengard tried, I suppose Although not really, because you had no allied army in that
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Jan 1, 2022 01:09
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Ainsley McTree posted:Drakengard tried, I suppose Well, not until 2 at least 
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Jan 1, 2022 01:10
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Takoluka posted:Naotora Ii can gently caress off with her "just straight up doesn't die" buff. It really doesn't help that she shows up on every goddamned map
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Jan 1, 2022 03:05
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There was that really shoddy Ninety Nine Nights game back in the 360 era. I really didn't like it. Sengoku Basara is the obvious answer but I really don't feel that has the same emergent gameplay feel as a Warriors game. Your character is literally all that mattered, there was nothing to protect, and nothing ever changed. I mentally compared it to a Mega Man game in some regards - Magoichi's stage is always Magoichi's stage in the campaign, you just played through with a new moveset. 99N also had this I think - it was a crowd brawler but you weren't reacting as much as you were just slogging through armies. Both were clearly inspired by Warriors games but just took the interpretation the wrong(?) way. I feel it's a really ripe avenue if someone wanted to try to do it. Some competition is always good. KOEI fell into it honestly, since the principle idea for musuo is 'what if action game on a strategy game map', and it was during a time where they had enough money to try such an idea. Part of the magic grows out from that formula.
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Jan 1, 2022 04:57
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Sakurazuka posted:
I hope you're not saying that was a bad game, because it was a good game.
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Jan 1, 2022 05:05
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NameHurtBrain posted:There was that really shoddy Ninety Nine Nights game back in the 360 era. I really didn't like it. The problem is largely that it actually takes more effort than we give credit for to make these games and T-K's general success comes from decades of experience. Everyone else basically goes in blind, makes the same mistakes, and doesn't succeed well enough to really justify keep trying, and most rights holders are probably happier to just toss money at the guys who make games good.
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Jan 1, 2022 06:18
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Utawarerumono Zan 2 seemed better than the first, but it doesn't help that a lot of the musou clones out there are, unfortunately, by Tamsoft.
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Jan 1, 2022 06:21
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NameHurtBrain posted:There was that really shoddy Ninety Nine Nights game back in the 360 era. I really didn't like it. Maybe you're misremembering some things through the fog of time, but although NNN had its own issues it did try to take the koei formula and grow it up, in a sense, by having a bigger focus on the battlefield geometry itself, as well as more mid-stage shenanigans. The real winner of that generation, and indeed the blending of musou and strategy, was Bladestorm.
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Jan 1, 2022 06:45
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NameHurtBrain posted:There was that really shoddy Ninety Nine Nights game back in the 360 era. I really didn't like it. The Senran Kagura games are the closest we have to current Basara games in the West, and they're so bad. That whole setup of "level is essentially a hallway" makes them feel like small-scale character stories rather than the tales of the Warriors Worth A Thousand.
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Jan 1, 2022 07:05
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Kingdom Under Fire was sick until they went down too far on the Korean game path and made it into an MMO.
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Jan 1, 2022 08:04
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OxMan posted:The real winner of that generation, and indeed the blending of musou and strategy, was Bladestorm. I just looked into Bladestorm because I never heard of it and it's...weird. I'm only a little bit into it but so far it reminds me of Mount & Blade more than anything.
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Jan 1, 2022 11:28
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Played some more Bladestorm and while the mechanics are pretty interesting and it tries to be the kind of Musou game I always wanted to play, it's just so poorly balanced. The game tries to have all kinds of strategic mechanics where it wants you to switch squads and deploy troops on the map and give them commands but ALL of those mechanics are literally pointless because you're constantly overleveled so it's just easier to beeline for your objective, press one button and win. It's a shame really. Bizarre that the game doesn't have any difficulty settings either.
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Jan 1, 2022 18:07
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I'll assume you're playing the Nightmare version, the original was balanced slightly better. It doesn't solve the issue of how insanely repetitive things get very quickly though.
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Jan 1, 2022 18:12
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Jack Trades posted:Played some more Bladestorm and while the mechanics are pretty interesting and it tries to be the kind of Musou game I always wanted to play, it's just so poorly balanced. I mean, Use horse and press charge isn't very varied gameplay, but neither are most musous. It's definitely aged odd, but to be honest, I like the music.
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Jan 1, 2022 21:02
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Drakenel posted:I mean, Use horse and press charge isn't very varied gameplay, but neither are most musous. Most Musous are also bad. I like them but most of them are bad. The specific issue with Bladestorm is that it trades combat complexity for strategic complexity and then instantly invalidates any strategy by making you overpowered within an hour. In normal Musous you're also always overpowered but in those games you get to entertain yourself with pretty colors by doing different flashy combos in the moment-to-moment gameplay. Bladestorm offers no such thing. Whoever was responsible for tweaking the numbers in that game should be really loving ashamed of themselves. EDIT: Also most Musous do at least include difficulty modes, and while playing DW8E on Chaos difficulty isn't actually any difficult, it does force you to pay attention lest Lu Bu pulls an instant-kill Musou attack out of his rear end mid-combo. Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 1, 2022 |
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Jan 1, 2022 21:06
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One think I think a lot of musous miss is that at the end of the day Musou has more in common with Diablo than anything else. The loop is about playing and replaying missions full of fairly simple combat to get more loot and more customization to take on harder challenges until you get bored. I feel like trying to veer away from that often feels weird.
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Jan 1, 2022 21:15
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Oh yes, that's pretty much the ideal solution if KOEI wanted to expand the series into more than what it is. Just have enemies start dropping more loot beyond weapons. Add more customization and synergies with what you can use. Add some sort of near-infinite scaling. Let cooperative play have more players. Are you telling me there aren't people who would run Wu Zhang Plains +42 with 3 friends over and over just to see how far they could go? Or to push a leaderboard even? To go farm Yi Ling to get Zhou Yu a stick that does 3 more fire damage on his S-string? No. We got open world Dynasty Warriors which to me still seems incredibly  . Who the gently caress wants to go hunting with Xiahou Dun instead of just getting to murdering hundreds of dudes.
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Jan 1, 2022 22:06
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If they had made the action ANY smoother i'd be all over DW9 but it seems so stunted which I find so incredibly odd.
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Jan 2, 2022 00:39
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The Berserk one was pretty fun but only if you were willing to accept that they very clearly built the game around one character (Guts) and the others are just kinda superfluous. Like Casca is built around grappling moves and poo poo that just...don't work on Large enemies. Of which there are a loving LOT. Griffith is about big sweeping poo poo that clears human hordes well but just fly past all the huge demons. All of Guts different movesets work perfectly through, I love running around in the Endless Nightmare mode with the basic rear end Golden Era kit.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:29
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Does anyone have any strong opinions about One Piece Pirate Warriors 3 vs OPPW 4? I've got 3 sitting around from some previous Humble Bundle and 4 is on Game Pass at the moment, and I've been getting back into the manga lately after a long hiatus (I will finish the Dressrosa arc this time!) and would be keen to do some One Piece musou
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Jan 2, 2022 01:37
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I played PW3 for like 40 hours and absolutely loved it. I tried PW4 for about an hour and got bored. It might be okay but it didn’t grab me like the third one did.
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Jan 2, 2022 03:28
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