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ZShakespeare)
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The first table was about active cases - yours is about hospitalizations. They are not the same thing, so I’m not sure why you posted it. Ah poo poo, here have an excellent article from The Tyee which shows how much the BC Government is loving up all the data: The Case of BC’s Missing COVID-19 Data ChickenDoodle fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 21:46
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PT6A posted:I just get the feeling that it can't possibly be that simple, because if it were we'd be vaccinating everyone by force at this point. I dunno, maybe I'm a pessimist or my risk toleration is out of whack. This isn't pessimism. Thinking that there any scenario where the government would forcibly vaccinate people is wide-eyed optimism or naivete that anything they do is to prevent deaths instead of promote them, when all indications are the opposite.
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Jan 4, 2022 22:01
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Speaking of loving up data. Cases in the last 7 days BC: 22,235 AB: 8,170 SK: 1,815 Deaths in the last 7 days BC: 9 AB: 11 SK: 10 Saskatchewan has a higher vax rate than Alberta, 78.08% to 77.06% and not miles off of BC at 82.86% It kind of seems like they're cooking the books. Even Scott Moe and his Health Minister got exposed at their news conference on Thursday. Their spokesperson used the specific language that they took rapid tests and are self monitoring for symptoms, not that they tested negative. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/premier-health-minister-monitoring-symptoms-health-symptoms-1.6303947
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Jan 4, 2022 22:12
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ChickenDoodle posted:The first table was about active cases - yours is about hospitalizations. They are not the same thing, so I’m not sure why you posted it. I posted it to show that if you're well vaccinated then its emerging that things haven't gotten much more dangerous for you by one measure. Maybe to reassure someone out there who's hyperventilating in front of their computer screen after seeing that first chart.
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Jan 4, 2022 22:15
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Another Bill posted:Maybe to reassure someone out there who's hyperventilating in front of their computer screen after seeing that first chart. I just don't feel alive unless I'm experiencing a panic attack over a graph or chart. I have a phobia of big numbers.
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Jan 4, 2022 22:33
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Another Bill posted:I posted it to show that if you're well vaccinated then its emerging that things haven't gotten much more dangerous for you by one measure. Considering all my friends are doom scrolling like crazy and my one buddy is convinced he is going to die because he has a headache I appreciate this.
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Jan 4, 2022 22:52
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KJJ is amazing and I love him. It was leaking last night this might happen and I can’t believe it was true. https://twitter.com/CBCMeg/status/1478482628349087746
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Jan 4, 2022 23:18
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Powershift posted:Speaking of loving up data. There's a significant delay between a positive test result and a death. So a single day's snapshot of numbers can't really tell you much.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:32
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StoicRomance posted:KJJ is amazing and I love him. It was leaking last night this might happen and I can’t believe it was true. I wouldn't go far as saying I love a vehement racist, but KJJ is a loving lunatic and watching him fumble through reality has been hillarious. Shine on you crazy bigoted diamond.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:34
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ChickenDoodle posted:Ah poo poo, here have an excellent article from The Tyee which shows how much the BC Government is loving up all the data: The Case of BC’s Missing COVID-19 Data So I read that article, and it mostly seems to have been a journalist dealing with frustrations with FOIs and the fragmentation of health information in our system of half a dozen separate health authorities. Could you articulate what the government are "loving up" in "all the data"? I mean, I suppose you could argue that they were in the wrong for not cutting services across the board to funnel billions into integrating the health information across the health authorities sooner? I don't know that I would choose to make that argument, though. Mr. Mercury posted:Yeah DBH can... I dunno, do something other than what she's currently doing And do you have a source for Alberta having better COVID data than BC? Last I checked BC was still doing double the testing Alberta was, which suggests that at least by one measure we have better data.
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Jan 4, 2022 23:37
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Powershift posted:Speaking of loving up data. I mean BC was one of the ground zero locations for Omicron - I'm sure the BC numbers are actually several times that, I'm actually starting to hear of cases among my coworkers and people I know which I never did in previous waves. Although no one seems to have got it particularly badly yet, thankfully (everyone is double vaxxed)
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Jan 5, 2022 00:17
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If it turns out the entire solution to this pandemic, even the parts where there's some escape, was "get everyone vaccinated" then my hatred of the willfully unvaxxed shall increase tenfold.
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Jan 5, 2022 01:15
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Another Bill posted:I posted it to show that if you're well vaccinated then its emerging that things haven't gotten much more dangerous for you by one measure. It doesn't show that though, because it's old data
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Jan 5, 2022 01:54
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Lead out in cuffs posted:So I read that article, and it mostly seems to have been a journalist dealing with frustrations with FOIs and the fragmentation of health information in our system of half a dozen separate health authorities. Either they're collecting data necessary to respond to the changing landscape of outbreak in the province and not reporting much of it, or they're just not. Everything I read states the former, but if that's true: yikesaroo! I mean just compare the dashboards if you've got time! There's a lot to sift through, so just skip to the Twitter thread at the bottom if you want the tl;Dr. It's all tiring and nobody needs to read that much. WRT the testing: it's bad! Goofus BC, Gallant Alberta. At first it doesn't look too different, but there's more to it than that. Even information requests are straight up not being answered in a manner that could be considered "passable." Some consider it to be the worst in Canada... however accurate or inaccurate that is. For a while they deliberately counted hospitalizations differently than the rest of the country. They also have gone back and forth on LTC facility reporting. Geo reporting has also wwaaaaaaayyyyyy shittier than most provinces. Local journo McElroy has also been hammering the BC CDC over it the entire pandemic, as he's been shut out multiple times asking for data at least on par with Alberta (thread): https://twitter.com/j_mcelroy/status/1335353581243789312 Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 02:32
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The Alberta 0-10 age group has a similar amount of new hospitalizations and ICU admittance as the 50 and up age groups. Let's see when society notices.
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Jan 5, 2022 02:38
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So I guess BC has just gone full on "we aren't doing anything and it's up to the public to figure this out" now. I'm beginning to think this continent is fundamentally hosed and nothing can bring it back from the brink. Trying for minimal disruptions while informing businesses to prepare for a third of their workforce to get sick at any given time. Surely this will stop the medical system and other essential infrastructure from collapsing. I've been reasonably chill during this pandemic but for some reason this poo poo is making me apoplectic now.
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Jan 5, 2022 02:56
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Faffel posted:So I guess BC has just gone full on "we aren't doing anything and it's up to the public to figure this out" now. I'm beginning to think this continent is fundamentally hosed and nothing can bring it back from the brink. Trying for minimal disruptions while informing businesses to prepare for a third of their workforce to get sick at any given time. Surely this will stop the medical system and other essential infrastructure from collapsing. I've been reasonably chill during this pandemic but for some reason this poo poo is making me apoplectic now. Main issue in BC is staffing levels. Last shift I worked with the floor(medical unit) fully staffed was Dec. 25th when everyone makes 2.5 times rate/pay. Even Jan. 1st with everyone making double we where short 2. Island health where I work, we have 40 COVID patients, and a whopping 12 in ICU areas, all unvaxxed or 1 dose. That's nothing. What the news isn't telling you is the staff/PT ratio is dog poo poo, instead of 4-5 patients, you get 8-10. Last shift my wife did in emergency,(Jan 2nd), she had 6 nurses to work with for 90~ patients in that department. Finally BC and probably other places, the number one emergency presented is not COVID, it's mental health, and drug overdoses. But people can't catch a mental health breakdown from a restaurant or gym that so it's not in the media. Many people work thankless jobs here, but the security working within hospitals. God drat do they have it rough.
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Jan 5, 2022 03:37
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Oof yeah, I can't even imagine  Best of luck to you all, please post in the thread if there's something that could be done/an initiative you know of that helps any
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Jan 5, 2022 03:44
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Joink posted:Main issue in BC is staffing levels. Last shift I worked with the floor(medical unit) fully staffed was Dec. 25th when everyone makes 2.5 times rate/pay. Even Jan. 1st with everyone making double we where short 2. Yeah this is what I meant by causing the medical system serious issues. Not from covid patients, but from an already significantly short-staffed system being ready to have a large chunk of its workforce out sick at any given moment.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:06
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Joink posted:Main issue in BC is staffing levels. Last shift I worked with the floor(medical unit) fully staffed was Dec. 25th when everyone makes 2.5 times rate/pay. Even Jan. 1st with everyone making double we where short 2. This is exactly my nurse friend's experience (also island health)
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Jan 5, 2022 04:25
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Mr. Mercury posted:Either they're collecting data necessary to respond to the changing landscape of outbreak in the province and not reporting much of it, or they're just not. Everything I read states the former, This is a weird binarization of the issue. How much data is "necessary"? It sure would be great to be like the PRC and deploy a literal army of contact tracers, test collectors and testing labs to any city facing an outbreak, but I don't know if that's at all politically feasible in Canada. And if it were, it would certainly require massive support from the federal government. quote:but if that's true: yikesaroo! The info is in the dashboards -- last week it was true, BC maxed out at 20K tests/day while Alberta was only doing around 10K, but this week (and before) it seems more even? quote:I mean just compare the dashboards if you've got time! There's a lot to sift through, so just skip to the Twitter thread at the bottom if you want the tl;Dr. It's all tiring and nobody needs to read that much. WRT the testing: it's bad! quote:Geo reporting has also wwaaaaaaayyyyyy shittier than most provinces. I'm grouping the above together because they seem to be about the same thing. So the issue is not having the city-level data? It'd be nice to have for sure, but I can't say it would change what precautions I'd have taken. And they definitely have that data in some form, and have acted on it. When they were rolling out vaccines, they prioritised neighbourhoods with higher case counts. This just doesn't seem like something to get furious about. quote:Even information requests are straight up not being answered in a manner that could be considered "passable." That's the same article ChickenDoodle posted above, and again it mostly seems to be complaining about the FOI process, which, as the article admits, is slowed up mostly because the number of FOI requests has skyrocketed while the majority of the bureaucrats who would deal with them are working from home and less efficient at responding. The author does a bit of hand-wringing about why the provincial government doesn't just hire more FOI request-fulfillers in each of their departments, but there is most definitely a balancing act between that and people screeching about government waste and inefficiency. And in her particular case, it sounds like she got data, but was trying to request further data that either didn't exist or was likely protected for privacy reasons (e.g. contact tracing). She isn't super clear about what was actually missing, and she definitely wasn't "straight up not answered". But also, FOI request handling is a different issue from how well the Province is handling COVID data. quote:Some consider it to be the worst in Canada... however accurate or inaccurate that is. I think I made a post earlier in this thread about Jens Von Bergmann. You know, I broadly agree with a lot of the causes he supports, but he's a walking case study in Dunning-Kruger, and spouts his vitriolic opinion at anyone who'll listen. The local press seems to have fallen into quoting him as an authority on anything and everything involving data. But please never, ever, take Jens' opinion to be that of an expert, or even worthy of taking seriously. quote:For a while they deliberately counted hospitalizations differently than the rest of the country. That's not even what that article says. They counted a particular number -- people in ICU beds with active cases, and were open about that being what they were reporting. And then they eventually also started reporting numbers of people in ICU beds with post-COVID complications, like Manitoba was doing? I still don't see this as a huge gently caress-up or anything to get especially angry about. quote:They also have gone back and forth on LTC facility reporting. That article just says they had a month-long lapse in reporting during a massive wave of LTC COVID because they didn't have the staff to gather and report the numbers. To which you might say "they should have just hired more epidemiologists", and to which I might reply "how many epidemiologists do you think were available for hire and already working flat-out on COVID in late 2020?" Like, I would be really happy if they had put more money into expanding testing and contact tracing capacity, but I'm still not seeing how they were "loving up all the data".
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Jan 5, 2022 05:23
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apatheticman posted:The Alberta 0-10 age group has a similar amount of new hospitalizations and ICU admittance as the 50 and up age groups. Let's see when society notices. I'd not hold my breath, if I were you. They're all terrible bastards, after all.
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Jan 5, 2022 05:40
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Racist chumped by Mexicans re: skill at entering America illegally. I hope he’s sad! https://twitter.com/itsdeanblundell/status/1478570105126756354?s=21
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Jan 5, 2022 05:47
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https://bc.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-update-b-c-hospitalizations-surge-35-per-cent-from-friday-to-tuesday-1.5727459quote:The number of COVID-19 patients in B.C. hospitals has surged 35 per cent over the last four days, the government revealed in the first full pandemic update since New Year's Eve. I've been monitoring stats for Australia because it seemed like they were hit with Omicron before us so it might give a clue to how things might proceed here. This doesn't bode well. Comparing the National stats for cases/ICU/Ventilator is interesting I am extremely leery on how this whole thing is going to pan out. I know there's delays between positive test results, hospitalization, and deaths and I kinda feel like I'm watching a metaphorical car crash in slow motion.
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Jan 5, 2022 06:42
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StoicRomance posted:Racist chumped by Mexicans re: skill at entering America illegally. I hope he’s sad! It gets even better. https://twitter.com/ARCCollective/status/1478555949988081665 TL,DR is he was trying to get over the border to claim political asylum, April LaJune (SovCit scammer, among others) was on her way to pick him up, season-related hilarity ensues. Basically he tried trekking without supplies, LaJune called in the authorities to find him. He's in US custody and frostbitten. She's probably in as much trouble as Kay JayJay: Helping a fugitive from the law cross the border into the States? That's at least conspiracy to commit a crime right there. It's been pointed out that she's a supporter of the 3%ers, which could get her in trouble up here since they were declared a terrorist group last summer. All in all, a satisfying early January.
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Jan 5, 2022 07:16
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Lead out in cuffs posted:This is a weird binarization of the issue. How much data is "necessary"? It sure would be great to be like the PRC and deploy a literal army of contact tracers, test collectors and testing labs to any city facing an outbreak, but I don't know if that's at all politically feasible in Canada. And if it were, it would certainly require massive support from the federal government. Ah, okay. Ignoring after this because you're starting from a conclusion that what's getting collected/reported is sufficient and we are literally never going to see eye to eye on this one. I've had to watch what bad management of pandemic response does to the people working it firsthand, and while it's better than what's going on in the states it's in no way "good," or should be immune from criticism. When we're still having issues with it being difficult for nurses wear proper PPE in tasks like testing/vaccinating—that alone is enough for a public health officer to come under scrutiny. It doesn't take a PRC like effort to match, say, Quebec or Ontario, and that's all that needs to get said. quote:I'm grouping the above together because they seem to be about the same thing. So the issue is not having the city-level data? It'd be nice to have for sure, but I can't say it would change what precautions I'd have taken. And they definitely have that data in some form, and have acted on it. When they were rolling out vaccines, they prioritised neighbourhoods with higher case counts. This just doesn't seem like something to get furious about. quote:That's the same article ChickenDoodle posted above, and again it mostly seems to be complaining about the FOI process, which, as the article admits, is slowed up mostly because the number of FOI requests has skyrocketed while the majority of the bureaucrats who would deal with them are working from home and less efficient at responding. The author does a bit of hand-wringing about why the provincial government doesn't just hire more FOI request-fulfillers in each of their departments, but there is most definitely a balancing act between that and people screeching about government waste and inefficiency. And in her particular case, it sounds like she got data, but was trying to request further data that either didn't exist or was likely protected for privacy reasons (e.g. contact tracing). She isn't super clear about what was actually missing, and she definitely wasn't "straight up not answered". The end result is the same. It does not matter. This one person is not the only outlet making requests to fill gaps in reporting. If the data must come through that vehicle, it is always going to take a fair amount of time, and that lies at the the province's feet. It could be avoided entirely by transparent reporting from the start, and those with the power to do this know this. quote:I think I made a post earlier in this thread about Jens Von Bergmann. You know, I broadly agree with a lot of the causes he supports, but he's a walking case study in Dunning-Kruger, and spouts his vitriolic opinion at anyone who'll listen. The local press seems to have fallen into quoting him as an authority on anything and everything involving data. But please never, ever, take Jens' opinion to be that of an expert, or even worthy of taking seriously. quote:That's not even what that article says. They counted a particular number -- people in ICU beds with active cases, and were open about that being what they were reporting. And then they eventually also started reporting numbers of people in ICU beds with post-COVID complications, like Manitoba was doing? I still don't see this as a huge gently caress-up or anything to get especially angry about. quote:That article just says they had a month-long lapse in reporting during a massive wave of LTC COVID because they didn't have the staff to gather and report the numbers. To which you might say "they should have just hired more epidemiologists", and to which I might reply "how many epidemiologists do you think were available for hire and already working flat-out on COVID in late 2020?" quote:Like, I would be really happy if they had put more money into expanding testing and contact tracing capacity, but I'm still not seeing how they were "loving up all the data".
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Jan 5, 2022 08:21
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flashy_mcflash posted:This isn't pessimism. Thinking that there any scenario where the government would forcibly vaccinate people is wide-eyed optimism or naivete that anything they do is to prevent deaths instead of promote them, when all indications are the opposite. Let's not be silly, there is no circumstance where the government could literally physically force a needle into someone's arm and I would definitely not want them to even try. That's not optimistic, that's authoritarian.
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Jan 5, 2022 14:46
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Fidelitious posted:Let's not be silly, there is no circumstance where the government could literally physically force a needle into someone's arm and I would definitely not want them to even try. That's not optimistic, that's authoritarian. Remember when those kids died from meningitis in the 90s (or was it the late 80s?), and the province had us all show up for needle parade in schools to get vaccinated, and nobody said fuckall? We just... went, and did it, because we wanted to not die? Those were good times.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:12
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i definitely remember classmates that didnt get that because their parents refused
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Jan 5, 2022 15:16
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At what point do we start denying health care to people who willingly refuse to get vaccinated? I don't want any more people losing family members to treatable diseases because some goober from Winkler refuses to listen to reason.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:24
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I was wondering about that - do they still vaccine days at public schools? I remember getting all kinds of shots, how is this any different? I guess the answer is 'it isn't' and etc. The nurse in one of the school vaccine days gave me a dalmation plush to count how many spots were on it while she gave the needle. But I didn't need to count the spots for a distraction, I could handle the needle. I was a big boy.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:27
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EvilJoven posted:At what point do we start denying health care to people who willingly refuse to get vaccinated? I don't want any more people losing family members to treatable diseases because some goober from Winkler refuses to listen to reason. honestly just mandate the vacccines at that point. I'd rather open the pandora's box of "we can force you to get vaccinated during a global pandemic" than "we can deny you healthcare based on your choices". As a semi-related thing, I was surprised that I was asked for a vaccine passport at the hospital today (coming into the outpatient clinic). I'm sure that doesn't apply for the ER, but still seems like a surprisingly big step for something I didn't hear anything about. enki42 fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 15:34
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Capital Letdown posted:I was wondering about that - do they still vaccine days at public schools? My kid got multiple vaccines at school this year in grade 8 yeah. They were also doing covid vaccines for kids who hadn't got it during the summer.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:37
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enki42 posted:honestly just mandate the vacccines at that point. Don't stop providing it, just stop paying for it. The only free healthcare you're entitled to is your shot. After you've had that, then we can talk about the lifesaving surgery you aren't getting anyway because we're too busy rotoproning some chud moron
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Jan 5, 2022 15:47
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flakeloaf posted:Don't stop providing it. Same argument IMO, all this dancing around vaccine rules seems pointless when the goal is we just want to make them mandatory. Saying "oh you're totally allowed to not get a vaccine! But you can't work, aren't eligible for our universal healthcare, can't travel, can't go to restaurants, can't go inside a hospital, etc." feels like our strategy is basically the "i'm not touching you" plan.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:49
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And now here comes the AFN with an important announcement about government-mandated health care procedures.
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Jan 5, 2022 15:51
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CBC had a story on Macron in France basically telling plague rats to get hosed or "piss off" and to start denying services. I stand with him on that. It's their fault this thing still wreaks havoc. https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/frances-macron-rules-out-new-covid-19-curbs-ahead-wednesday-meeting-2022-01-04/ quote:"The unvaccinated, I really want to piss them off. And so, we're going to continue doing so, until the end. That's the strategy," Macron told Le Parisien newspaper in an interview published late on Tuesday.
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Jan 5, 2022 16:07
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quote:The expression "emmerder", from "merde" (poo poo), that can also be translated as "to get on their nerves", is considered "very informal" by French dictionary Larousse and prompted immediate criticism by rivals on social media. haha "you didn't use formal enough language when telling us to gently caress off! *sob*"
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Jan 5, 2022 16:13
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I like 'en-merde-ant' as translation for 'pissing me off'
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Jan 5, 2022 16:16
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Vintersorg posted:CBC had a story on Macron in France basically telling plague rats to get hosed or "piss off" and to start denying services. I stand with him on that. It's their fault this thing still wreaks havoc. You should have seen /r/Canada meltdown about EI being denied if you get fired for not complying with your jobs vaccine mandates. I feel like that move is already further than anything Macron would do. Edit: 4700 comments lol https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/rt5hq3/unvaccinated_workers_who_lose_jobs_ineligible_for/
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Jan 5, 2022 16:17
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